Southwest Airlines Debacle

[melmaria]

This is insane:

Federal investigation of Southwest Airlines following cancellation of 3,900 flights: news.yahoo.com/federal-investigation-southwest-airlines-following-141226060.html

‘Unacceptable’ Southwest Airlines to fall under federal probe after it cancels nearly 75% of all flights on Monday. ‘We’ve been chasing our tails.’: fortune.com/2022/12/27/how-many-flights-did-southwest-airlines-cancel-christmas-dept-transportation/amp/

“Other major airlines, including American, United, Delta and JetBlue, suffered cancellations rates of between none and 2%. The cancellation rate at Southwest Airlines was 62%, according to FlightAware.”

[Tacocat]

Wow that’s nuts. They have been having issues for quite some time though. We were in Florida for spring break and had no issues getting there but flying home was a nightmare. Or flight kept getting delayed and we eventually were going to miss our connection. Everything else was canceled, full or delayed. We were either going to be stuck in Florida for 3-4 days or in our connection city for 1-2 days. We finally decided to rent a car before they were all gone and drive 1500 miles home. We were supposed to land at home on Saturday night. We didn’t get home until Monday about 3am. That sucked so bad. Fortunately we got refunded our unused tickets and I had taken out trip insurance so they paid us out also. It was the worst travel experience we’ve ever had. This sounds even worse as it will take them forever to get caught up now.

[wildrice]

This whole thing is just crazy! We somehow won the lottery and didn't have flights cancelled in either direction this year - we flew home from Houston to BWI at 5:30am today and I was sure we were going to get cancelled until the moment we were actually in the air. The crew was surprisingly cheery and kind, too. When we arrived we saw what was probably thousands of bags near baggage claim just roped off and sitting there waiting. Some of the baggage carousels had stopped and just had bags sitting on them abandoned, which felt a little dystopian. What a total mess. I am supposed to fly with Southwest again twice in January and I'm curious to see how things are by then. Even though it all worked out for us, I will honestly hesitate to book with them again in the future based on this. I wonder how it will impact the company in the long run.

[melmaria]

My sister’s Southwest flight was one of the many canceled today. Fortunately, she was able to update her rental car reservation and drive home instead (a 9 hour drive instead of a 1.5 hour flight, which sucks, but is still doable).

If this had happened to me flying across the country, I would’ve lost my mind. They are telling people they can’t rebook their canceled flights until after January 1(!!).

[erbear]

It's pretty insane. SW is a huge carrier here and accounted for something like 80% of the cancelled flights this weekend.

@@
A friend was saying today that her son (12) was supposed to fly as an UA minor to her parents' this morning. Got up at 4:30am for a 6:15 flight (on time -- the flight left) but when they got to the airport, they told them he couldn't board the flight bc they weren't taking UA minors. WTF? Why didn't someone tell them?!

The airline industry is out of control and really needs some regulation. Passengers have no rights, it seems.

[karinothing]

Dec 27, 2022 17:53:28 GMT -5 erbear said:

It's pretty insane. SW is a huge carrier here and accounted for something like 80% of the cancelled flights this weekend.

@@
A friend was saying today that her son (12) was supposed to fly as an UA minor to her parents' this morning. Got up at 4:30am for a 6:15 flight (on time -- the flight left) but when they got to the airport, they told them he couldn't board the flight bc they weren't taking UA minors. WTF? Why didn't someone tell them?!

The airline industry is out of control and really needs some regulation. Passengers have no rights, it seems.

Oh wow. That sucks.

SW is really bas at notifying folks IMO. When we a flight cancelled due to the tropical storm in Nov. I knew long before sw told me because the airport closed. Sw took hours to notify us.

United on the other hand sends me 8 million messages about 2 min time changes.

[lilac05]

Dec 27, 2022 17:53:28 GMT -5 erbear said:

It's pretty insane. SW is a huge carrier here and accounted for something like 80% of the cancelled flights this weekend.

@@
A friend was saying today that her son (12) was supposed to fly as an UA minor to her parents' this morning. Got up at 4:30am for a 6:15 flight (on time -- the flight left) but when they got to the airport, they told them he couldn't board the flight bc they weren't taking UA minors. WTF? Why didn't someone tell them?!

The airline industry is out of control and really needs some regulation. Passengers have no rights, it seems.

@@@they absolutely should have told them…but I’m really glad that someone has made the decision not to allow UA minors. My guess is that there’s nothing in their system for that particular scenario, but I think it’s the right call for the shitshow that is SW flights right now. It’s still super annoying, especially at that time of day. However, I’d rather have that than have a minor get to a connection and find out there’s no second leg of the flight.

[Velar Fricative]

The airline industry is terrible but it is clear the hub-and-spoke model is more ideal for weathering (pun intended) crazy situations. But, point-to-point like SW uses is cheaper.

I feel so bad for everyone trying to visit loved ones and getting stranded.

[Poeticxpassion]

This has been all over the news in Colorado. They showed this photo last night on the news. Hundreds of bags that need to be claimed. The line to claim is 2 to 3 hours long.

[Poeticxpassion]

I also followed an adventure on TikTok. A flight out of Tampa to Cleveland was cancelled before Christmas. 4 strangers that were on that flight decided to rent a car together and drive. They documented it on TikTok. It was crazy but they made it safe and sound.

ETA: this wasn’t southwest but frontier airlines

[bears]

Dec 27, 2022 17:58:07 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Dec 27, 2022 17:53:28 GMT -5 erbear said:

It's pretty insane. SW is a huge carrier here and accounted for something like 80% of the cancelled flights this weekend.

@@
A friend was saying today that her son (12) was supposed to fly as an UA minor to her parents' this morning. Got up at 4:30am for a 6:15 flight (on time -- the flight left) but when they got to the airport, they told them he couldn't board the flight bc they weren't taking UA minors. WTF? Why didn't someone tell them?!

The airline industry is out of control and really needs some regulation. Passengers have no rights, it seems.

@@@they absolutely should have told them…but I’m really glad that someone has made the decision not to allow UA minors. My guess is that there’s nothing in their system for that particular scenario, but I think it’s the right call for the shitshow that is SW flights right now. It’s still super annoying, especially at that time of day. However, I’d rather have that than have a minor get to a connection and find out there’s no second leg of the flight.

@@
SW doesn't allow unaccompanied minors to take flights with connections. I know this because my kids were booked to go to FL this summer as unaccompanied minors and we had to rebook because SW stopped flying direct from the destination city. They've cancelled a ton of their direct routes in the past year.

I'm guessing that with all that was going on, they didn't feel like they had the bandwidth to deal with unaccompanied minors safely.

[konapoppy]

This might be just rumor, but I heard that part of the issue was essentially tech debt and outdated systems that couldn’t handle this scale of changes.

[melmaria]

Dec 27, 2022 18:43:15 GMT -5 konapoppy said:

This might be just rumor, but I heard that part of the issue was essentially tech debt and outdated systems that couldn’t handle this scale of changes.

It’s not a rumor. Their scheduling system for scheduling crew is very outdated (like technology from the 90s), and it killed them. Many of the articles discuss it. Among other factors (Southwest doesn’t operate on a hub and spoke system, operating on really short turnarounds, etc.)

ETA - example: timesofsandiego.com/business/2022/12/27/southwests-winter-meltdown-blamed-on-outdated-crew-scheduling-technology/

[katfco]

Our flight ended up being in that debacle on Sunday and it was ridiculous. They’re supposed to refund our flight, and they ended up also thinking we were rescheduled for today. Then, DH got a notification that that flight had also been cancelled.

[aspentosh]

This is insane. We didn't do anything for the holidays so I had no idea. Off to read more!

[mala]

Dec 27, 2022 17:53:28 GMT -5 erbear said:

It's pretty insane. SW is a huge carrier here and accounted for something like 80% of the cancelled flights this weekend.

@@
A friend was saying today that her son (12) was supposed to fly as an UA minor to her parents' this morning. Got up at 4:30am for a 6:15 flight (on time -- the flight left) but when they got to the airport, they told them he couldn't board the flight bc they weren't taking UA minors. WTF? Why didn't someone tell them?!

The airline industry is out of control and really needs some regulation. Passengers have no rights, it seems.

@@@this happened to my friend who was supposed to put her kid (11) on a flight at 730am yesterday to FL before leaving on a road trip with her husband to take care of some family business. Showed up and were told they couldn't fly. She spend more than 2 hours trying to rebook their flight home (which was already canceled), and ended up taking a detour to meet the family they were staying with at a semi-cental meeting point to get them there. (Kid was flying from MD to FL, and my friends were heading to Arkansas.) They got rebooked to come home the 2nd, and I"m now listed as "Aunt Mala" so I can do pick-up if something goes sideways.

[erbear]

Dec 27, 2022 17:58:07 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Dec 27, 2022 17:53:28 GMT -5 erbear said:

It's pretty insane. SW is a huge carrier here and accounted for something like 80% of the cancelled flights this weekend.

@@
A friend was saying today that her son (12) was supposed to fly as an UA minor to her parents' this morning. Got up at 4:30am for a 6:15 flight (on time -- the flight left) but when they got to the airport, they told them he couldn't board the flight bc they weren't taking UA minors. WTF? Why didn't someone tell them?!

The airline industry is out of control and really needs some regulation. Passengers have no rights, it seems.

@@@they absolutely should have told them…but I’m really glad that someone has made the decision not to allow UA minors. My guess is that there’s nothing in their system for that particular scenario, but I think it’s the right call for the shitshow that is SW flights right now. It’s still super annoying, especially at that time of day. However, I’d rather have that than have a minor get to a connection and find out there’s no second leg of the flight.

@@
No connection (I don’t think UA minors are allowed on connecting flights anyway). I am sure they were overwhelmed and decided they didn’t want to deal with kids too. That seems like a good choice. But the very least they could do was let them know!

[Deleted]

I have been growing tired of SW for a while because their prices aren't really any cheaper + dealing with the whole having to check in exactly 24 hours out and no assigned seats when I travel with my kids is just frustrating. Add this mess plus their lack of relationship with anyone else so that when they need to rebook they only have their own planes, and I think I'm done for the most part. It's just not worth it. I'm not saying any of the others are better, but at least with the biggies, if they don't have a plane to get you somewhere, there are some options.

[konapoppy]

Dec 27, 2022 18:45:35 GMT -5 melmaria said:

Dec 27, 2022 18:43:15 GMT -5 konapoppy said:

This might be just rumor, but I heard that part of the issue was essentially tech debt and outdated systems that couldn’t handle this scale of changes.

It’s not a rumor. Their scheduling system for scheduling crew is very outdated (like technology from the 90s), and it killed them. Many of the articles discuss it. Among other factors (Southwest doesn’t operate on a hub and spoke system, operating on really short turnarounds, etc.)

ETA - example: timesofsandiego.com/business/2022/12/27/southwests-winter-meltdown-blamed-on-outdated-crew-scheduling-technology/

Whew - there are IT people saying “I told you so” and finding their emails. No way the board hadn’t been informed. Yikes.

[seeyalater52]

This is super depressing. Since resuming travel during the pandemic I’ve strongly preferred to fly Southwest due to the ability to choose seatmates who appear to give a shit about covid (quality masks) so I’m hoping this prompts them to get their act together before my next flight in Jan.

[okla]

I hope they get this shit figured out fast. Both for the people stranded currently and selfishly for myself because I have a quick 24 hour trip on SW next week and I have to check a bag full of presentation equipment. Trying to be chill, but getting anxious.

[SusanBAnthony]

As an employee of a company that runs shockingly large systems in Excel instead of SAP, I am cackling with glee/horror.

[steamboat185]

We are stuck. Our flight in the 28th showed up as canceled in flightaware yesterday the earliest we could rebook for 4 people was 1/2 (had we waited for the official cancel text today it would have been 1/4). We booked a flight on United on 12/30 for 2900 and are hoping either Southwest or travel insurance will pay for part or all of the flight. I don’t trust that Southwest will be ok by 1/2. We’d drive, but it’s 30 plus hours without stopping. Edit we are luckier than most having free lodging with family, but we’re all ready to be home and sleeping not on air mattresses.

[yellow23]

We were supposed to fly to my parents house on the evening of the 25th, that flight was cancelled. We rescheduled for the 26th and after that flight was delayed for 8 hours it was finally cancelled. At that point, then whole system was down and we couldn’t rebook a new flight. By the time we were able to get through to the booking page several hours later, every single flight was full until the day we were scheduled to return home so we had to cancel our trip. We haven’t seen them at Christmas since before COVID so everyone is disappointed, but I’m also very relieved we got stuck at home and not somewhere else. We have been unable to cancel our return flight so far so it will be interesting to see what happens. I wish we could just so we could open up those seats for others that may need them. They also cancelled every flight for our route today as well, so even if we could have rebooked we would have been cancelled again. Our cancellation text yesterday didn’t even arrive until 4 hours after the flight was cancelled.

Neither of us even live in an area hit by the winter storm so all of our cancellations were due to planes/flight crews not being available.

[bears]

Dec 27, 2022 22:11:07 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

As an employee of a company that runs shockingly large systems in Excel instead of SAP, I am cackling with glee/horror.

I previously worked for a company in a very similar situation and keep on seeing parallels. I have a lot of sympathy for the SW IT team that has been keeping this together with spit and glue for two decades while being for better resources to prevent this from happening.

[SusanBAnthony]

Dec 27, 2022 22:28:53 GMT -5 bears said:

Dec 27, 2022 22:11:07 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

As an employee of a company that runs shockingly large systems in Excel instead of SAP, I am cackling with glee/horror.

I previously worked for a company in a very similar situation and keep on seeing parallels. I have a lot of sympathy for the SW IT team that has been keeping this together with spit and glue for two decades while being for better resources to prevent this from happening.

Yep, exactly. Every year individual contributors and mid level managers share a message that this is going to end in catastrophy, and every year it gets bigger and bigger and harder to fix.....

[konapoppy]

Dec 27, 2022 23:04:59 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Dec 27, 2022 22:28:53 GMT -5 bears said:

I previously worked for a company in a very similar situation and keep on seeing parallels. I have a lot of sympathy for the SW IT team that has been keeping this together with spit and glue for two decades while being for better resources to prevent this from happening.

Yep, exactly. Every year individual contributors and mid level managers share a message that this is going to end in catastrophy, and every year it gets bigger and bigger and harder to fix.....

This is going to be used as a case study for sure.

I brought this up in a recent training I attended that had folks deprioritize major expensive system upgrades because there was no tangible benefit.

Sometimes the tangible benefit is your shit not crashing and making headline news that causes major reputational (and potentially cyber) risk 🤷🏻‍♀️

[ssmjlm]

A friend had to fly to MD because her mom was having emergency brain surgery. Her return SW flight was cancelled after she was at the gate.

She tried to rent a car and drive, but sold out. She ended up taking her mom's car and will drive it back in a couple weeks.

DH stopped being a SW fan years ago. We end up flying AA and always have to go through Charlotte, but it's nice to know once you get to Charlotte they have a lot of flight options and airlines if something happens.

[melmaria]

Another 2500 SW flights canceled today.

NYT (gift link): www.nytimes.com/2022/12/28/us/southwest-airlines-canceled-flights.html?unlocked_article_code=93Fw_iLWhd2ebmcbln8itQQxSCsLlLb_pTKBk7pibn8gISg559ll2sAfhQuiNsZ4XjnX1ds7xGN5o2nLOJzA2T-ixQ0X1gqa7_hmiEeMrO4F05oQ-bscf8OpdnC81WcfH8F48OX_mXDa_my0l_En9BNz04mh0qRWwnpQxpgHfkQpRNV7C84hI1DKWvleKN_0o6DOv-_-HeS8FXkzYwVFt7vd2a4RAGkUGtrzFp5W_RxRUUnCT-6JOiTWTSTc-gqpz0urtlqMsSVRX9pfO2lIgaAfo3PK5FVVjLQDNQiQC5kxj1a3Dzbd39-Q0oDwMJHqDhV4XQIssbfAX68nrM-D-C-7yhFTOfln&smid=share-url

“Southwest’s operational configuration, which differs from most other major carriers, has come under intense scrutiny after a winter storm last week disrupted travel plans across the United States. Southwest has been uniquely unable to get its planes back in the air after the storm, while thousands of customers have been left stranded and struggling to rebook.

On Friday, around 1,300 Southwest flights — about 34 percent of its scheduled flights that day — were canceled. Other airlines in the United States also struggled on Friday, with about 22.5 percent of all non-Southwest flights canceled, according to FlightAware.

But as other airlines regained their footing — 13.3 percent of non-Southwest flights were canceled on Saturday, 9.7 percent on Sunday and 5.7 percent on Monday — the problems worsened at Southwest.

Southwest canceled 39 percent of its flights on Saturday. The number grew to 46 percent on Sunday, 74 percent on Monday and 64 percent on Tuesday.

In total, nearly 11,000 Southwest flights have been canceled since Thursday, according to FlightAware.”

[niemand88f]

My and my SIL's mom's return flights are both Southwest and canceled. Luckily we're staying with family and have our luggage. She found a return United flight home 4 days later and I found a rental car for a 12 hour drive home. I really hope they reimburse my rental because I had bought the flight with a Southwest gift card

I also think I'm done flying for Christmas. Last year my Frontier return flight was canceled and I drove 10 hours home and waited 2 months for reimbursement. I don't mind long drives.