Southwest Airlines Debacle

[StrawberryBlondie]

Dec 29, 2022 9:54:49 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I love checking luggage. Nothing better than being as hands-free as possible when roaming the airport, @@this was especially helpful a few weeks ago when I flew with my two kids but not with DH@@.

And I say that as someone who had a lost piece of luggage years ago en route to a vacation that never was found.

Agreed. I hate dealing with carryon only unless it's a super short trip and I'm by myself.

I usually put the absolute essentials that I can't quickly replace (inhaler, glasses, contacts) plus an extra shirt and pair of socks & underwear in my backpack just in case.

[rubytue]

Dec 29, 2022 9:54:49 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I love checking luggage. Nothing better than being as hands-free as possible when roaming the airport, @@this was especially helpful a few weeks ago when I flew with my two kids but not with DH@@.

And I say that as someone who had a lost piece of luggage years ago en route to a vacation that never was found.

Thank you for saying this. It always feels like it’s some competition to be a good enough traveler to not check bags. And, even though it’s mostly bc my husband is an over packer, I love checking bags. Ugh on having a connection on opposite sides of the terminal, and having to hoof it with a backpack and a stuffed roller. Let me wander the terminal with just a backpack, with meds, undies, a water bottle, and a kindle. Please. 

Also, I’m flying SW toward the end of January. It hasn’t occurred to me to be worried, given it’s 3.5 weeks off. But you all have me concerned. Ugh. I’m now contemplating booking a backup flight home maybe the day after. 😬 of course, that backup flight would also be with SW on points, so cancelable if the first one makes it. But, if it’s all still a mess. Why would a backup on the same airline help.  Ugh. 

[cattledogkisses]

Dec 29, 2022 10:20:15 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Dec 29, 2022 9:54:49 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I love checking luggage. Nothing better than being as hands-free as possible when roaming the airport, @@this was especially helpful a few weeks ago when I flew with my two kids but not with DH@@.

And I say that as someone who had a lost piece of luggage years ago en route to a vacation that never was found.

Thank you for saying this. It always feels like it’s some competition to be a good enough traveler to not check bags. And, even though it’s mostly bc my husband is an over packer, I love checking bags. Ugh on having a connection on opposite sides of the terminal, and having to hoof it with a backpack and a stuffed roller. Let me wander the terminal with just a backpack, with meds, undies, a water bottle, and a kindle. Please. 

Also, I’m flying SW toward the end of January. It hasn’t occurred to me to be worried, given it’s 3.5 weeks off. But you all have me concerned. Ugh. I’m now contemplating booking a backup flight home maybe the day after. 😬 of course, that backup flight would also be with SW on points, so cancelable if the first one makes it. But, if it’s all still a mess. Why would a backup on the same airline help.  Ugh. 

Yes, I hate this.

I have never not checked a bag.  I want to be able to pack all the liquids and other products I want.  I put essential medications, basic toiletries, and sometimes a change of clothes in my carry-on, and even on the few occasions that my bag has been lost for a night it hasn't been a huge deal.

[wildrice]

Dec 29, 2022 8:10:27 GMT -5 konapoppy said:

Dec 29, 2022 7:25:42 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

I know this doesn't work for everyone, for various reasons, but this is why I never check a bag. My anxiety over my bag getting lost ruins the trip for me. I'd rather live with less stuff but know I have it on my person. I almost always do laundry while on a week long trip, even if it's in the hotel sink by hand.

I get this, but it was also the holidays and I imagine many checked bags had gifts.

Yup. We almost always just do carry ons now but we had a checked bag with gifts that (thankfully) did arrive home with us.

Also, I was super dumb and put a SNOW GLOBE in my carry on, thinking that it was fragile and I didn't trust it in my luggage...but forgetting that a key element of a snow globe is liquid. They made me either throw it away or check my carry on. I took a huge gamble and checked it. Thankfully that too made it home - I seriously should have bought a lottery ticket. But it was a very difficult decision because I was nervous I wouldn't see it again for weeks. Luckily we were just heading home, and if our flight was cancelled we would be staying with my parents who have everything we would have needed, so we could have survived without luggage. I really feel for people who were stranded in layover cities or on vacation somewhere with nowhere to stay and nobody to share toiletries/clothing with if they were parted from their luggage.

ETA: we adopted the "carry on only" policy (whenever possible) after having our luggage lost for almost a full week while on vacation in Germany, which was a giant hassle that I never want to deal with again. I'm a tall, large person with German heritage so thankfully I was able to find clothing that fit... but can't imagine if that had happened on our trip to Thailand the following year. Checking a bag is fantastic, until it isn't.

[Velar Fricative]

Dec 29, 2022 9:59:19 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Dec 29, 2022 9:54:49 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I love checking luggage. Nothing better than being as hands-free as possible when roaming the airport, @@this was especially helpful a few weeks ago when I flew with my two kids but not with DH@@.

And I say that as someone who had a lost piece of luggage years ago en route to a vacation that never was found.

I agree with this. Plus watching people stuff giant oversized bags overhead, stopping up the people behind you trying to board the plane, and then all the Karens in the airport trying to game the system by wearing three coats and stuffing their shirts with crap and then unloading on the plane.

I do blame airlines for the fees that force a lot of people to not check bags (we have a miles account with United that gives us free checked bags, so I do say this from a place of privilege). BUT, I do seethe quietly every time people try to stuff the overhead bins with everything they’ve ever owned and keep everyone waiting to either sit down or deplane.

[breezy8407]

The pictures of the luggage are baffling.

Probably not helpful anecdote, but our return flight on Delta over spring break was cancelled and we had to stay another night, extra car rental day, food, etc. I was able to get fully reimbursed. I didn't expect it, but my anger over that day dissipated a little once I got the money back. I really hope SW does the same for all these customers. The money doesn't replace the stress and emotional aspect of a cancelled flight though, especially over the holidays.

[breezy8407]

Re: Checked bags, I've been forced to check a bag because the bins are full. In 2020, they boarded the planes from the back, so people with status but were not in Comfort + or First boarded last. Another reason I've had to is if I didn't look a head to see that the plane I am on is a tiny CRJ9000 or whatever they are, and the bins can only handle basically duffle bags and backpacks.

[pixy0stix]

Every flight I've been on for the last two years has forced some people to check their carry on bags. Again, the industry as a whole needs to be revamped, and it has nothing to do if people fly "smart" and do or don't check their bags.

[Velar Fricative]

Dec 29, 2022 10:39:16 GMT -5 breezy8407 said:

The pictures of the luggage are baffling.

Probably not helpful anecdote, but our return flight on Delta over spring break was cancelled and we had to stay another night, extra car rental day, food, etc. I was able to get fully reimbursed. I didn't expect it, but my anger over that day dissipated a little once I got the money back. I really hope SW does the same for all these customers. The money doesn't replace the stress and emotional aspect of a cancelled flight though, especially over the holidays.

I think even if reimbursement happens, it might not make people whole for a while. Then that will impact people’s finances for a while, to the point where they still ultimately weren’t reimbursed for everything (it’s not like SW will reimburse credit card interest).

[Velar Fricative]

Dec 29, 2022 10:50:09 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Every flight I've been on for the last two years has forced some people to check their carry on bags. Again, the industry as a whole needs to be revamped, and it has nothing to do if people fly "smart" and do or don't check their bags.

A few weeks ago the gate crew were practically begging people to voluntarily gate check their bags before boarding because the plane was full. So, they knew they’d have a problem even before we all got on, which…why would they know that if they weren’t purposely reducing overhead storage (or adding more seats without adding more overhead storage)? So yeah, revamp it all. Every seat should should correspond with the ability to store one piece of reasonably-sized carryon overhead.

[erbear]

Huh. I’ve never considered not checking bags to be competitive 😂. I never check bags because I’m lazy and anxious (don’t want to arrive early to wait in lines, don’t want to wait when we land to leave the airport, don’t want to get stuck without clothes).

[abs]

Dec 29, 2022 11:13:34 GMT -5 erbear said:

Huh. I’ve never considered not checking bags to be competitive 😂. I never check bags because I’m lazy and anxious (don’t want to arrive early to wait in lines, don’t want to wait when we land to leave the airport, don’t want to get stuck without clothes).

Yep. I never check a bag and it’s all anxiety related. Having my stuff with me gives me some semblance of control. False control, yes, but it still makes me feel better.

But yes. Flying is a miserable experience and has been for awhile. There needs to be better controls and assurances put in place.

[jinkies]

Dec 29, 2022 11:13:34 GMT -5 erbear said:

Huh. I’ve never considered not checking bags to be competitive 😂. I never check bags because I’m lazy and anxious (don’t want to arrive early to wait in lines, don’t want to wait when we land to leave the airport, don’t want to get stuck without clothes).

I also do carry on because I'm anxious, but that backfired on me twice this summer bc my carryon was checked. I didn't have any necessities (glasses, change if clothes) in my personal item, so I spent the whole flight panicking.

You'd think I would have learned after the first time!

I do see on travel pages where packing light is seen as some sort of virtue which is weird.

[NewOrleans]

At least the Twitter meltdown has been entertaining to watch. This catastrophe is just sad and a terrible commentary on the wretchedness of the country’s infrastructure.

Why do posts about travel here invariably result in use of the word “undies?” 😭

[SusanBAnthony]

Dec 29, 2022 11:13:34 GMT -5 erbear said:

Huh. I’ve never considered not checking bags to be competitive 😂. I never check bags because I’m lazy and anxious (don’t want to arrive early to wait in lines, don’t want to wait when we land to leave the airport, don’t want to get stuck without clothes).

That's exactly what I said. That it's anxiety related. But cue 15 posts...

[AJL]

Re: luggage -- I've lost my luggage a few times and it's always a hassle. But I started packing 2-3 changes of clothes plus absolute essentials (eyeglasses, cell phone charger, medications, etc.) in my carryon. This way I have at least 3 days of clothing if my luggage is misrouted or lost. My bag was lost on the way to Prague this summer. Took two days to get it. But I was fine because I had what I needed with me. Plus it was all easily put in a backpack that could squish under the seat in front of me. 

I do this with the kids, too, when we travel. They carry their own backpacks but they have enough for a few days if their luggage is lost. 

[pixy0stix]

Dec 29, 2022 11:41:10 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

At least the Twitter meltdown has been entertaining to watch. This catastrophe is just sad and a terrible commentary on the wretchedness of the country’s infrastructure.

Why do posts about travel here invariably result in use of the word “undies?” 😭

Because being without clean undies is probably the worse thing to happen to you when traveling.

[NewOrleans]

SW Pilot reflecting on failed leadership. It’s from his Facebook.


What happened to Southwest Airlines?

I’ve been a pilot for Southwest Airlines for over 35 years. I’ve given my heart and soul to Southwest Airlines during those years. And quite honestly Southwest Airlines has given its heart and soul to me and my family.

Many of you have asked what caused this epic meltdown. Unfortunately, the frontline employees have been watching this meltdown coming like a slow motion train wreck for sometime. And we’ve been begging our leadership to make much needed changes in order to avoid it. What happened yesterday started two decades ago.

Herb Kelleher was the brilliant CEO of SWA until 2004. He was a very operationally oriented leader. Herb spent lots of time on the front line. He always had his pulse on the day to day operation and the people who ran it. That philosophy flowed down through the ranks of leadership to the front line managers. We were a tight operation from top to bottom. We had tools, leadership and employee buy in. Everything that was needed to run a first class operation. When Herb retired in 2004 Gary Kelly became the new CEO.

Gary was an accountant by education and his style leading Southwest Airlines became more focused on finances and less on operations. He did not spend much time on the front lines. He didn’t engage front line employees much. When the CEO doesn’t get out in the trenches the neither do the lower levels of leadership.

Gary named another accountant to be Chief Operating Officer (the person responsible for day to day operations). The new COO had little or no operational background. This trickled down through the lower levels of leadership, as well.

They all disengaged the operation, disengaged the employees and focused more on Return on Investment, stock buybacks and Wall Street. This approach worked for Gary’s first 8 years because we were still riding the strong wave that Herb had built.

But as time went on the operation began to deteriorate. There was little investment in upgrading technology (after all, how do you measure the return on investing in infrastructure?) or the tools we needed to operate efficiently and consistently. As the frontline employees began to see the deterioration in our operation we began to warn our leadership. We educated them, we informed them and we made suggestions to them. But to no avail. The focus was on finances not operations. As we saw more and more deterioration in our operation our asks turned to pleas. Our pleas turned to dire warnings. But they went unheeded. After all, the stock price was up so what could be wrong?

We were a motivated, willing and proud employee group wanting to serve our customers and uphold the tradition of our beloved airline, the airline we built and the airline that the traveling public grew to cheer for and luv. But we were watching in frustration and disbelief as our once amazing airline was becoming a house of cards.

A half dozen small scale meltdowns occurred during the mid to late 2010’s. With each mini meltdown Leadership continued to ignore the pleas and warnings of the employees in the trenches. We were still operating with 1990’s technology. We didn’t have the tools we needed on the line to operate the sophisticated and large airline we had become. We could see that the wheels were about ready to fall off the bus. But no one in leadership would heed our pleas.

When COVID happened SWA scaled back considerably (as did all of the airlines) for about two years. This helped conceal the serious problems in technology, infrastructure and staffing that were occurring and being ignored. But as we ramped back up the lack of attention to the operation was waiting to show its ugly head.

Gary Kelly retired as CEO in early 2022. Bob Jordan was named CEO. He was a more operationally oriented leader. He replaced our Chief Operating Officer with a very smart man and they announced their priority would be to upgrade our airline’s technology and provide the frontline employees the operational tools we needed to care for our customers and employees. Finally, someone acknowledged the elephant in the room.

But two decades of neglect takes several years to overcome. And, unfortunately to our horror, our house of cards came tumbling down this week as a routine winter storm broke our 1990’s operating system.

The frontline employees were ready and on station. We were properly staffed. We were at the airports. Hell, we were ON the airplanes. But our antiquated software systems failed coupled with a decades old system of having to manage 20,000 frontline employees by phone calls. No automation had been developed to run this sophisticated machine.

We had a routine winter storm across the Midwest last Thursday. A larger than normal number flights were cancelled as a result. But what should have been one minor inconvenient day of travel turned into this nightmare. After all, American, United, Delta and the other airlines operated with only minor flight disruptions.

The two decades of neglect by SWA leadership caused the airline to lose track of all its crews. ALL of us. We were there. With our customers. At the jet. Ready to go. But there was no way to assign us. To confirm us. To release us to fly the flight. And we watched as our customers got stranded without their luggage missing their Christmas holiday.

I believe that our new CEO Bob Jordan inherited a MESS. This meltdown was not his failure but the failure of those before him. I believe he has the right priorities. But it will take time to right this ship. A few years at a minimum. Old leaders need to be replaced. Operationally oriented managers need to be brought in. I hope and pray Bob can execute on his promises to fix our once proud airline. Time will tell.

It’s been a punch in the gut for us frontline employees. We care for the traveling public. We have spent our entire careers serving you. Safely. Efficiently. With luv and pride. We are horrified. We are sorry. We are sorry for the chaos, inconvenience and frustration our airline caused you. We are angry. We are embarrassed. We are sad. Like you, the traveling public, we have been let down by our own leaders.

Herb once said the the biggest threat to Southwest Airlines will come from within. Not from other airlines. What a visionary he was. I miss Herb now more than ever.

[NewOrleans]

Dec 29, 2022 11:53:44 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Dec 29, 2022 11:41:10 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

At least the Twitter meltdown has been entertaining to watch. This catastrophe is just sad and a terrible commentary on the wretchedness of the country’s infrastructure.

Why do posts about travel here invariably result in use of the word “undies?” 😭

Because being without clean undies is probably the worse thing to happen to you when traveling.

Et tu Brute?

Next you’re going to be saying fresh undies. ::dies::

[audette]

Dec 29, 2022 10:56:05 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

Dec 29, 2022 10:50:09 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Every flight I've been on for the last two years has forced some people to check their carry on bags. Again, the industry as a whole needs to be revamped, and it has nothing to do if people fly "smart" and do or don't check their bags.

A few weeks ago the gate crew were practically begging people to voluntarily gate check their bags before boarding because the plane was full. So, they knew they’d have a problem even before we all got on, which…why would they know that if they weren’t purposely reducing overhead storage (or adding more seats without adding more overhead storage)? So yeah, revamp it all. Every seat should should correspond with the ability to store one piece of reasonably-sized carryon overhead.

And this is where I get super-stressed when flying.  I check a bag on almost every trip - because my carryon is too damn full of "essential" stuff to fit whatever else I might need on the trip.

Between meds, work and/or personal laptop, documents, charging cables, etc, there isn't much space for personal stuff or clothes beyond that.  And, if there isn't space on the plane for my carryon, I basically have to remove 80% of the stuff, because it _can't_ be checked...  (aka: meds, laptops, essential docs...)  Full disclosure - I use a backpack for my carryon, because my local airport is small, and often only has teeny jets with the miniscule overhead bins for carryons, so they force _every_ rollerbag to be checked.  So I avoid rollerbags.

[cattledogkisses]

Dec 29, 2022 11:13:34 GMT -5 erbear said:

Huh. I’ve never considered not checking bags to be competitive 😂. I never check bags because I’m lazy and anxious (don’t want to arrive early to wait in lines, don’t want to wait when we land to leave the airport, don’t want to get stuck without clothes).

Oh not everyone is this way, but there is definitely a subset of people who view packing light/not checking a bag as some kind of virtue and like to be sanctimonious about it. 

Call me vain, but if I’m going on vacation I want to be able to bring all my beauty products and makeup and I’m not interested in trying to decant everything into 3 oz. containers. (I have waist length hair; 3 oz. of shampoo will last me approximately three days, lol.)

[Velar Fricative]

Thanks for sharing, NewOrleans. Collectively, we don’t think solutions that prevent problems from happening in the first place is worthwhile. That is the case eeeeeeeeverywhere - transportation, our healthcare system, pandemic preparedness, technology. home maintenance, etc. Because you can’t measure what you don’t know for ROI.

[wildrice]

Dec 29, 2022 13:07:52 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

Dec 29, 2022 11:13:34 GMT -5 erbear said:

Huh. I’ve never considered not checking bags to be competitive 😂. I never check bags because I’m lazy and anxious (don’t want to arrive early to wait in lines, don’t want to wait when we land to leave the airport, don’t want to get stuck without clothes).

Oh not everyone is this way, but there is definitely a subset of people who view packing light/not checking a bag as some kind of virtue and like to be sanctimonious about it. 

Call me vain, but if I’m going on vacation I want to be able to bring all my beauty products and makeup and I’m not interested in trying to decant everything into 3 oz. containers. (I have waist length hair; 3 oz. of shampoo will last me approximately three days, lol.)

I think it really comes down to how you travel. We tend to switch locations a lot, take public transit and then walk, etc, and it's honestly a lot less hassle to pack a backpack than to drag a big suitcase around. We've destroyed a suitcase on cobblestone streets. Our last vacation we stayed at a beautiful apartment with gorgeous views, but it was 5 flights up in a building without an elevator. Then we took a ferry to another location that doesn't allow cars within city walls so we had to walk to our next apartment. An actual suitcase would have been a huge hinderance. 

If we are going to a resort in Mexico for a week and taking the resort shuttle from the airport, I'm a lot more likely to bring a full suitcase (with essentials in a carry on in case the luggage gets delayed). For a long weekend visiting family, I just do a carry on and use their toiletries lol.

[wildrice]

NewOrleans, thanks for sharing. Southwest is often used in organizational behavior courses as a case study for how workplace culture can drive success for a company - it will be interesting to see what kinds of case studies they are used for in the future. I think this definitely sounds like an interesting leadership case study.

[pixy0stix]

I recently had to start traveling with my CPAP, which can't be checked. I don't have the extra cash to buy a travel one, so I chuck it into a roller carry-on with other stuff. If forced, I could dig it out, but it's still a bag in the overhead. We all have reasons for doing what we do.

[bears]

@puxy0stix I'm not sure if you know this, but medical devices don't count towards a carry on bag allowance, so you could carry it separately if you like.

[pixy0stix]

Dec 29, 2022 13:39:33 GMT -5 bears said:

@puxy0stix I'm not sure if you know this, but medical devices don't count towards a carry on bag allowance, so you could carry it separately if you like.

Yes, I do know. It's a big bag, plus my personal bag, so it's chucked into a roller carry-on.

[melmaria]

Dec 29, 2022 13:07:52 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

Dec 29, 2022 11:13:34 GMT -5 erbear said:

Huh. I’ve never considered not checking bags to be competitive 😂. I never check bags because I’m lazy and anxious (don’t want to arrive early to wait in lines, don’t want to wait when we land to leave the airport, don’t want to get stuck without clothes).

Oh not everyone is this way, but there is definitely a subset of people who view packing light/not checking a bag as some kind of virtue and like to be sanctimonious about it. 

@@@@@@

This was probably me, pre-kids (although I certainly wouldn’t have been smug about it toward other people, just to myself, lol). I NEVER checked my bags prior to having tiny humans. Lots of anxiety about losing luggage (even though it’s never happened to me), not wanting to wait in line for my bags at baggage claim, etc.

But with kids, it feels impossible. We now travel with travel car seats, a suitcase full of diapers/wipes/baby gear etc. And when you have to push a baby in a stroller while corralling a rambunctious almost-4-year-old through an airport, it’s just easier to not be tied down with carry-ons. (Yes, we could buy things like diapers at our destination, but it just seems easier to travel with it instead of having to deal with logistics of going to a store once we get somewhere etc).

So, we now do what several PPs mentioned and have medications, important toiletries, and a change of clothes for everyone in their carry-on, and check the rest. Some day we will go back to carrying on only, but those days are several years away.

[nothingcontroversial]

Dec 29, 2022 11:56:07 GMT -5 NewOrleans said:

Dec 29, 2022 11:53:44 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Because being without clean undies is probably the worse thing to happen to you when traveling.

Et tu Brute?

Next you’re going to be saying fresh undies. ::dies::

There should be some kind of "Doordash, except for underwear" service. If you lose your luggage, or your house burns down, or you have some other calamity that leaves you without underwear, the delivery person goes to the nearest Walmart or something and gets you a pack or two of underwear in your size. Nothing fancy, and not your preferred brand. Just something that fits and can tide you over until you get your luggage returned or are able to order and receive the undies that you prefer to wear. 

[cap]

I somehow managed to forget to pack undies on a recent work trip. I'd just bought some new ones, and didn't want to mess with buying more, so I just washed them with soap when I showered each night then dried them with the hairdryer. It worked!

But yeah, when I fly, if I'm checking a bag, I always pack one change of clothes in my carryon, along with meds, glasses, and toiletries.