One thing it sounds like you haven't consider is that the move was entirely about that specific other family and not your kid at all.
If the school prefers to move kids at the break between years but moved that kid anyway, there might be something very specific going on.
Maybe he's a really physical, rough kid and they didn't feel the younger kids were safe with him in the room. Maybe he has something else going on that needs specific interventions that match better with the 3 year old class. Maybe his parents are really pushy and the school was tired of dealing with them.
We know the family well - our DH’s golf and we often have play dates, meet up at the park etc. We actually met at a previous daycare that all 4 of our kids were at. They said the school approached them about moving their child up because they needed to make room in the younger class. It’s always possible that we don’t know the full story, but I have no reason to doubt them. The dad volunteered this info, we didn’t ask of course.
I want to start by saying that my DD was held back from the one year old room and was kept in the infant room for five extra months because she couldn’t walk independently yet and that was the final criteria to move (had to do with fire exit stuff). At the time I was very concerned about her development being in a room with much younger kids. Now I can say it ultimately didn’t matter at all. She’s six and she’s happy and healthy. So, many of these decisions that feel big at the time- in the grand scheme of things, they aren’t big.
If he’s happy in his current room I don’t see a rush to move him. I’d probably move him up if given the chance, but I don’t think mama bear mode is required.
I appreciate the perspective! If there was a criteria he wasn’t meeting I would totally understand - but it doesn’t sound like there is. So I still feel a little unsettled I guess. I will try to put Mama Bear back into hibernation!
Yup, my 17 month old was in a room with babies as young as six weeks. I was truly not pleased.
Reading your other comments, he will not fall behind. He just won’t. The truth is that kids do not need to learn letters and numbers and reading at such a young age. We can force these things before they’re developmentally ready for them and it takes a long time to learn. Or they can learn it a little older and pick it up quickly. And when they pick it up quickly as an older kid, they look more favorably upon learning. You really really do not need the more academically advanced curriculum at age 3. When people say “kids need to be playing at this age” it’s not because play is fun and they shouldn’t have to learn yet. It’s because at that age they learn through play.
I would be much more worried about putting him in a social situation where he could be hurt by another kid.
As an example, my six year old went into K with no sight words. Despite much effort on my part and the part of her pre-K. During K she made few gains. Now in 1st, she is learning reading in leaps and bounds. Her brain just wasn’t ready, but now that it is, learning is coming quickly. Shrug.
So you asked in person AND you have sent an email?
You need to let this go. They are already aware that you aren't thrilled and have made a plan to get him some time in the 3s only room.
You ask if this is a situation where you need to go to "mama bear" mode. It's not even close if this is the only issue and not part of a larger picture of issues. Sometimes your kid is the oldest and sometimes they are the youngest. There is value in both roles. What a gift that he gets to experience being a leader in his classroom!
Why one child slightly younger than yours was moved is something you will probably never know the full picture of and, honestly, you shouldn't. Because a good program should look at the two existing classes and the kids who are "eligible" to be moved and decide based on what is best for all kids. It shouldn't be a matter of next in line. The parents may not know exactly why he was the better fit to move up or may not be sharing the full picture with you, even if they are very close friends. I think you are looking for more formal, check-list style criteria and I don't think you are going to get it.
As far as the bullying comment, it's not great but I don't see anything in there that says another child HAS bullied your child, only concerns that he may be if placed in a class with another kid. Given that it was an off-hand remark made the last day before the holiday break, I'm going to give the director a little benefit of the doubt that she was super busy, maybe a little caught off guard by your question, and used some shorthand that wasn't the best choice of wording, while also not being free to fully discuss exactly who/what she is thinking. In all likelihood, there is a kid in that class who is maybe on the older end who is rough and has trouble interacting appropriately with his peers and, for whatever reason, they think that your kid would make a likely target. Maybe the kid who was moved wouldn't. And that doesn't really have anything to do with a strength or weakness of your kid. Since it sounds like they typically move kids up in September, by moving your child at the normal time, the whole thing is avoided.
I do get this. I guess to me there seems like a larger difference between 2 and 3 than 3 and 5. Or at least between the 2s and 3s in his class, specifically.
The preschool I taught at had a 18 month-3 class also, so depending on birthday sometimes the kids would move at young three or old three. One of my favorite classes I’ve ever taught!
I really spend a lot of time thinking about (and I’m not joking- this is what my brain goes to at 3 am when I can’t sleep)- this is the first time in history where kids are put in homogenous age groupings mostly from birth, so kids aren’t learning to be kind and helpful with younger kids while they learn from bigger kids. I really strongly think this is a huge factor in the major decline in social skills I’m seeing as an elementary teacher (and I was thinking this before Covid…)
Sorry. I’m exhausted. It’s been a weird week. This is really something I rant about to anyone who listens. So usually just my mom and husband
Yes! I actually teach Montessori so I’m definitely in favor of well thought out and well planned multiage groupings. My school has both traditional and Montessori classes and it’s fascinating to see who plays together at school events. The kids who are/were in Montessori play in big groups that have all ages through middle schoolers looking after the younger preschoolers while the traditional classes tend to stick pretty close to same age peers.
So you asked in person AND you have sent an email?
You need to let this go. They are already aware that you aren't thrilled and have made a plan to get him some time in the 3s only room.
You ask if this is a situation where you need to go to "mama bear" mode. It's not even close if this is the only issue and not part of a larger picture of issues. Sometimes your kid is the oldest and sometimes they are the youngest. There is value in both roles. What a gift that he gets to experience being a leader in his classroom!
Why one child slightly younger than yours was moved is something you will probably never know the full picture of and, honestly, you shouldn't. Because a good program should look at the two existing classes and the kids who are "eligible" to be moved and decide based on what is best for all kids. It shouldn't be a matter of next in line. The parents may not know exactly why he was the better fit to move up or may not be sharing the full picture with you, even if they are very close friends. I think you are looking for more formal, check-list style criteria and I don't think you are going to get it.
As far as the bullying comment, it's not great but I don't see anything in there that says another child HAS bullied your child, only concerns that he may be if placed in a class with another kid. Given that it was an off-hand remark made the last day before the holiday break, I'm going to give the director a little benefit of the doubt that she was super busy, maybe a little caught off guard by your question, and used some shorthand that wasn't the best choice of wording, while also not being free to fully discuss exactly who/what she is thinking. In all likelihood, there is a kid in that class who is maybe on the older end who is rough and has trouble interacting appropriately with his peers and, for whatever reason, they think that your kid would make a likely target. Maybe the kid who was moved wouldn't. And that doesn't really have anything to do with a strength or weakness of your kid. Since it sounds like they typically move kids up in September, by moving your child at the normal time, the whole thing is avoided.
Nope - we sent a message through the class portal asking if we could schedule time with the Director after school restarted. She called us on the last day of school (which is why I already stated that I was giving the benefit of the doubt about the bullying thing). That was before the winter break started. We haven’t reached out again at all. The owner emailed us today, or maybe yesterday, in advance of school starting back Monday.
I noticed our daycare often moved the kids with older siblings if they needed space mid-year (with parents that wouldn’t mind). My oldest always moved up at the beginning of the year with a group of kids the same age and they took time transitioning them. I was a bit annoyed a couple times when a younger kid moved up before him because I (incorrectly) felt like they were implying the younger kid was more advanced than mine. Due to birthdays, my son was the oldest in his class for about half the year (they moved one group in spring and another in fall each year). By my third kid in the daycare, they needed space in the 2 year old room and asked me if they could move my daughter right away (no transition, no other kids moving with her). They knew I wouldn’t care and the teachers had known her since she was born because her brother and sister went through the older room. She was the only 2 year old in a room of 3 & 4 year olds for a few months, but the director knew both she could handle it and that we wouldn’t be upset by the move. There are many parents who would be upset if their kids didn’t move with a group of peers or didn’t get a 2 week transition time that they usually did so I think the director just chose my kid to move up because our family had been at the daycare for 7 years by then and she knew what our reaction would be. They probably have a reason for moving the other kid up first and in the long run it won’t matter at all.
Post by countthestars on Jan 6, 2023 23:10:45 GMT -5
I agree with everyone else here on not worrying about it. Re: The bullying comment, it sounds to me like no “bullying” (though I don’t think it’s the appropriate term here, but personality mismatch) has actually happened yet which is why it wasn’t proactively addressed, unless I missed something in your post. I think what she was trying to say is that a kid in the other class, for whatever reason, may not mesh with your DS and they are looking out for your kid by not putting him in a situation to be “bullied”, not trying to stop something that is already happening.
Our toddler and preschool classes were combined multi-year. The only years they were same age were infant room and Pre-K:
Infants (0-1) Toddlers (1-2.9) Preschool (2.9 to Pre-K, which could be as old as 4.11) Pre-K (anyone who will be 5 before Sept 1)
Honestly, as time goes by, you will see more and more people jockeying to have their kid be the oldest in the room because of all the advantages it confers. "academics" really don't matter at this age. Your kid will not be missing out.
The 30 kids my eldest went to school with at age 2 are still with her in 6th grade (along with 100 other kids) so I have seen how these things progress and what mattered. These sort of differences really won't matter. I promise.
You say you thought they'd move them up in age order, but were you expecting your son to be moved during this year before you found out about the other kid being moved? Or just that you're surprised any move wasn't done based on age? If you were happy before finding out about another child's situation, I would take a breath and then forget all about this.
Fwiw my son is in a 1s and 2s class where he was the youngest for a bit, and this upcoming year (our school year starts in March) he'll stay in the same class as one of the oldest. I was super excited for him to learn from the older kids this year, but equally I think it'll be a positive experience for him to have the confidence of being one of the classroom leaders next year. I am not worried about the specifics of the "curriculum" until real school starts because right now he's learning SO much just about the world and his place in it, and that to me has a ton of value.
Both. I was expecting him to be moved soon-ish, though I didn’t know exactly when. And I felt his current class was fine while we were waiting for his spot to open up in the 3s. I didn’t know exactly when that would happen, but I did assume it was based on age. So now that a younger child has been moved instead of him for reasons unknown (and I hope to find out more) AND we are being told he may not move until September I just feel uneasy.
I’m prepared to be told there is some reason a younger child was moved instead of him - maybe they don’t feel he’s mature enough, maybe he vibes better with this teacher, etc - but I would hope that would have been a proactive conversation “Hey we don’t think he’s ready because of XYZ”. And While I understand that classroom management is an art and not a science, I don’t like the implication that another child’s behavior is limiting (in my mama bear brain) my kids progress.
I guess I just need to sit with this a bit longer, see how the visits to the 3s classroom go, and then check in.
I think the point of daycare is for your child to have a safe place to be cared for and to have some aspects of being around other kids and adults. I don’t see how your child’s progress is being limited by another kid’s behavior. This is not 11th grade with tests and exams. When I think about "mama bear" scenarios I think of issues in which my kid is in physical or emotional danger.
4 kids here who have all been in full time daycare (youngest is currently at 2) - I echo others that this is NBD. There could be any number of potential drawbacks to the older kid room. If your child is happy I would let it go.
With my first kid, I was eager for her to be challenged - she has an august birthday and is one of the youngest kids in her grade (now 5th). I now wish she were one of the older kids and we had kept her back, despite her being academically ahead, confident, and social. That contributed to us putting our third kid in a private TK this year so that he’ll start kindergarten at 6. He’s thriving so much more, I believe, as one of the oldest kids in the class. I think there’s more to be gained on confidence and social skills as an older kid than trying to get ahead on any potential ‘academics’ or skills in a preschool class. All the research I’ve read says that play-based preschool is better for kids than any kind of organized instruction.
Honestly, I'd be thrilled to not have my child doing learning at age 3 (I don't have kids but am a therapist and studied a lot of child development). At that age, I'd rather have them play and do crafts. There is plenty of time for a child to 'learn' and it doesn't have to come from school (I'm sure some of the books you read him have numbers/letters that he's learning anyway).
Is the 3s room dedicated to only 3, or is it 3/4 combo?
In our experience at daycare centers (two kids spanning three centers) the 3s room had a hardline expectation that the child be confidently potty trained. My kids were not confidently potty trained by 3 and therefore stayed with the 2s for longer than their chronological age.
That being said, it also seemed that in our daycare experience, classroom assignment was highly fluid and based on day-to-day staffing needs as well as child daily attendance. DS was an early-arrived every day and so all of my drop-offs were in the infant room even when he was no longer an infant (he started at 8 mos and attended through his third birthday) because that’s where all early bird arrivers went. There was a period when I’d pick up late afternoon and he could be in one of any three rooms depending on which staff members were present.
DS was none-the-wiser of which room he was in, the friends there, and the personnel.
You either trust that the school is doing what’s right for the children or you don’t.
I was coming to post essentially this statement- it all comes down to trust. I say this as a Director who has had to make moves for a wide variety of reasons. I could ask you a bunch of questions, but none of them matters beyond “do you trust the people caring for your child?” If the answer is yes, let this go and trust the process.
Post by starburst604 on Jan 7, 2023 11:04:02 GMT -5
This is the kind of thing that would have bugged me back in the daycare days (though I wouldn’t have made a thing of it either). With daycare in our rear view I can say now that what’s important is what you said in the beginning - you like the school and teachers. If you feel your kid is safe, happy and well cared for, you’re in a good daycare.
I can see where this caught your attention, but I don't think full-on Mama Bear is appropriate.
Perhaps they moved the other child because he's better able to hold his own against bigger/older kids- is he bigger, feisty, or a younger sibling used to the ways of older kids? I could even see where they might keep him in the class to help his sister making the transition later in the year. Some parents would be thrilled to have a single schedule to track.
Post by InBetweenDays on Jan 7, 2023 11:24:09 GMT -5
Maybe I'm not remembering how I felt with kids that age (our kids are almost 14 and 16) but I don't think I would have questioned this at all. Especially if DS was happy and thriving in his class. You can certainly let the director know that you'd like your DS to be moved up when there is room, but I don't see any reason at all to go Mama Bear on this.
There are so many things that seemed so important when my kids were young that looking back, I’m like.. yeah, I wasted so much mental energy on something that did NOT matter in the big picture.
I have the hardest time with BIL and SIL and their son - they’re driving themselves bananas over the smallest things with their son that really don’t matter but I’m sure seem VERY important to them. They haven’t asked for much advice, so I try to keep my mouth shut since we don’t have a close relationship, but man, I wish I could say some things…
But I figure at the end of the day, none of us signed up to parents thinking “yeah, I’d like to get a C- grade for my parenting” - this kind of overthinking comes about because we want to do our best for our kids.
In my experience, once they have the kid visiting the classroom for a few months then the move is imminent in the next couple of months. Visiting the next level up classroom was very standard at my daycare. Honestly I think it is more to help the kids transition than for most other reasons. But if the interaction between the two kids is a concern it will give them the opportunity to observe that.
While it’s easy to think your child is “behind” academically that’s not really a thing at age 3. As long as the child is meeting developmental milestones they are good. Letters and writing wouldn’t really start until age 4/5, and might not be super age appropriate in a 3 year old classroom. There was some in our 3 year old room but very minimal. Still should be very play based at that age.
Post by verycontrary247 on Jan 7, 2023 15:17:52 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, is there a price difference? I know for our daycare the older classes get less expensive because they are allowed to have a higher kid to teacher ratio.
In that case, if money isn't an issue I'd keep him in the younger room where there are less kids.
Honestly, I'd be thrilled to not have my child doing learning at age 3 (I don't have kids but am a therapist and studied a lot of child development). At that age, I'd rather have them play and do crafts. There is plenty of time for a child to 'learn' and it doesn't have to come from school (I'm sure some of the books you read him have numbers/letters that he's learning anyway).
Thank you for saying this. I'm a teacher and I am over here cringing at the concern about the 2 year old room not being "academic" enough. IT DOES NOT MATTER. If your daycare is "academic" at 2 (or 3, or 4 or even kindergarten!), they are doing it wrong.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
Post by Leeham Rimes on Jan 8, 2023 10:04:40 GMT -5
I used to be a preschool teacher. This is very par for the course. Our classes changed yearly (we followed the local school calendar so we worked for 10 months of the year) based on student body. Sometimes we had 2 classes for 3 year olds, sometimes we had 1 class for them and one class for a mix of 2 and 3s if they were older 2s & younger 3s. We did not move mid year bc that’s super hard for kids, make new friends and learn new teachers. For some kids that had skills above the others, they would visit an older class during the day. One boy in Wesley’s class could already read at 3, so he got to go to the 4’s class when they did their reading work.
It’s not in their best interest to move children up solely based on age, that’s not great as a general rule. In early education you want it to be based more on socialization abilities, and softer skills such being able to sit still at circle time, following directions, getting along with other children. This is the most important part of preschool IMO. Learning just how to BE at school. That’s much harder for kids to learn once they get to kindergarten. I had volunteered in W’ s kinder class, 3 days a week. The biggest skill I saw lacking was the kids inability to follow directions. Once they had that down, any other skill they needed (cutting with scissors, letter identification, etc) was learned quickly.
Wes was always the oldest in the room at preschool. He needed that extra year of preschool he got in order to be successful in elementary. He’s super smart, can do work on a grade level above, and I feel that’s because he was able to learn “how to school” at an easy pace.
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
Post by Leeham Rimes on Jan 8, 2023 10:06:39 GMT -5
And if you’re truly worried about “academics” then there’s lots of fun activities you can do at home to supplement. I did with both my boys, (mostly just to fill in our days. I’m not a great imagination player) it was all games and fun activities but helped motor skills and such.
I need ham like water Like breath, like rain I need ham like mercy From Heaven's gate Sometimes ham salad or casserole or ham that’s free range, all natural I need ham
Just out of curiosity, is there a price difference? I know for our daycare the older classes get less expensive because they are allowed to have a higher kid to teacher ratio.
In that case, if money isn't an issue I'd keep him in the younger room where there are less kids.
There is a small price difference (which we didn’t know before this conversation started) but it’s not a factor that’s influencing me either way.
There are so many things that seemed so important when my kids were young that looking back, I’m like.. yeah, I wasted so much mental energy on something that did NOT matter in the big picture.
I have the hardest time with BIL and SIL and their son - they’re driving themselves bananas over the smallest things with their son that really don’t matter but I’m sure seem VERY important to them. They haven’t asked for much advice, so I try to keep my mouth shut since we don’t have a close relationship, but man, I wish I could say some things…
But I figure at the end of the day, none of us signed up to parents thinking “yeah, I’d like to get a C- grade for my parenting” - this kind of overthinking comes about because we want to do our best for our kids.
I really appreciate this perspective - he is our first AND I am not generally breezy so I needed the gut check. Thank you for the benefit of your experience all!!
Homeschool mom here, with a child who attended preschool and kinder.
We much prefer wide age ranges and groups of mixed ages. Children tend to flourish in these environments. I agree that this is more about that other child than your own. You may know the other family, but you don’t know the school’s reason for moving the child up. It’s not information you need to be privy to. It sounds like the bully reference was a bad choice of words, but is a red flag that the older class is not currently a good fit for your child based on personality dynamic. Be thankful they’re observant and proactive. I wouldn’t push for the advancement.
There are so many things that seemed so important when my kids were young that looking back, I’m like.. yeah, I wasted so much mental energy on something that did NOT matter in the big picture.
I have the hardest time with BIL and SIL and their son - they’re driving themselves bananas over the smallest things with their son that really don’t matter but I’m sure seem VERY important to them. They haven’t asked for much advice, so I try to keep my mouth shut since we don’t have a close relationship, but man, I wish I could say some things…
But I figure at the end of the day, none of us signed up to parents thinking “yeah, I’d like to get a C- grade for my parenting” - this kind of overthinking comes about because we want to do our best for our kids.
I really appreciate this perspective - he is our first AND I am not generally breezy so I needed the gut check. Thank you for the benefit of your experience all!!
I wish parenting came with an instruction book. Your child is healthy and loved and that will take them further than anything any outside influence can.
I've been in a similar situation with my older son (now 6) a couple times and I get how you're feeling. He has a fall birthday too, and I feel like he was always right around the cutoff for moving up at daycare/preschool - and he didn't always. Having the benefit of hindsight, though, I also agree with others that it will be fine.
1. No 3 year old needs academics. None. 0. 100% of 3 year olds need play. 0% need academics. I may make an exception for, say, a Doogie Howser genius. Short of that, play is learning. Your kid isn't missing out on anything.
2. The difference between 3 and 5 is even bigger than the difference between 2 and 3.
3. The age and classroom stuff are truly NBD. The "bullying" is.