Help a lurker? Daycare class issues…

[fela]

Hi everyone - I usually just lurk but I could really use some input/perspective/gut check…

We are having a slight issue with DS’s daycare/school and I’m having trouble gauging whether I need to be full mama bear mode or if this is no big deal. We like his school and I respect the teachers and I VERY much do not want to be THAT parent. Unless I need to be…

DS turned 3 in October and has been at this school since he turned 2, which is the earliest they take kids. When he started there was sort of an odd spread of kids ages so he and his age peers were put into sort of a combo class of 2 and 3 year olds. There is an older class of just 3 year olds. We recently found out that another boy in his class, younger than him, moved up to the 3s class. We are friendly with that family and they mentioned something about needing to make room in the 2/3 class.

We reached out to the director to ask about the criteria for moving up to the next class. I guess I had kind of thought they would just move the kids up in age order, barring any concerns? We had a short convo with her - it was the let day of school before break - and she kind of hemmed and hawed and said the same thing about needing to make space. She also said that they were concerned a kid in the 3s class would bully DS.

We got an email from the owner today basically stating that they don’t like to do mid-year moves (their “year” starts in September though they are open year round) but that they would have DS visit the 3s room several times in the next few weeks (they reopen on Monday) and then we could talk more. She also referenced that there are benefits and drawbacks to being both the oldest and the youngest kid in class and we should consider that.

I don’t really know how to feel about this. DS is the oldest kid in his class now by a few weeks, but the youngest kids are twins who just turned 2. It just seems like such a different age and stage. And he wouldn’t actually be the youngest in the 3s class - the other child who they just moved is actually younger by about 4 months.

I just really want him to be more with his peers. And not that I’m worried about academics at this stage, but I also don’t want him missing out on more age appropriate stuff. If we were already in June or July I wouldn’t worry, but I really don’t want this to wait until September. At that point our DD will be 2 and in his same class!

What do I do if they won’t move him? How concerned should I be? I’ve never navigated this before…

[wanderingback]

As someone who is working on finding a daycare or nanny, how do you know the precise ages of other kids in his room? That’s just not a question I thought to ask. One of the daycares I’m planning to look at is a smaller daycare with kids if differing ages, so I never really saw it as a problem if a kid was the oldest or youngest at that age. What is your concern about his current room?

[jobae1234]

I want to start by saying that my DD was held back from the one year old room and was kept in the infant room for five extra months because she couldn’t walk independently yet and that was the final criteria to move (had to do with fire exit stuff). At the time I was very concerned about her development being in a room with much younger kids. Now I can say it ultimately didn’t matter at all. She’s six and she’s happy and healthy. So, many of these decisions that feel big at the time- in the grand scheme of things, they aren’t big.

If he’s happy in his current room I don’t see a rush to move him. I’d probably move him up if given the chance, but I don’t think mama bear mode is required.

[BicycleBride]

You are way overthinking this. I am a preschool teacher. Traditional preschool at that age is far more about how to act in a group and get along with friends. There is nothing substantial to be gained from moving mid year and there are some potential drawbacks like disrupting social bonds with friends and teacher.

[fela]

Jan 6, 2023 18:05:58 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

As someone who is working on finding a daycare or nanny, how do you know the precise ages of other kids in his room? That’s just not a question I thought to ask. One of the daycares I’m planning to look at is a smaller daycare with kids if differing ages, so I never really saw it as a problem if a kid was the oldest or youngest at that age. What is your concern about his current room?

I know the ages just by talking with the other parents, birthday invites, etc. Many kids are local so we see them at the park, soccer lessons, and so on.

I think for infants/young toddlers it probably matters less. But now that their daily activities do include some kind of “learning” I do want it to be age appropriate for him. I don’t exactly have a concern about his current class except that it is now skewing much younger than him. Which was ok, though less than ideal, when I thought the 3s class didn’t have room. But now that I know there was room I’m wondering why he didn’t move up and if I should be advocating for him more or if he will be missing out.

Since his teacher has to plan activities that will fit younger kids as well as him, I worry that he may “fall behind” if the 3s are working on letters and numbers while he is still doing crafts. Which makes me feel ridiculous because he’s only 3, and yet I still want him doing what the other 3 year olds are doing…

[beerlover]

I also don't think mama bear mode is required. This might annoy me a little bit and maybe make me wonder why the other child got to be moved up and mine didn't, but I would probably let it go for now if they decide he is not able to move yet. If he's happy, I wouldn't be too concerned. Maybe if you are told no, you can say something like "it would be great if we could reconsider this in a couple of months."

This isn't the same by any stretch but my son's daycare was small and they had 2 rooms - "upstairs" for babies/infants/basically not potty trained kids and "downstairs" for older kids, and when my DS was that age they'd often move kids up and down based on who was getting along with who, or the staff there that day, etc., and I would often get annoyed when he was upstairs with the babies and not down with the older kids, so I do understand.

[icedcoffee]

I’ve been here kind of and I know it FEELS like a huge deal because he’s your first (I’m guessing), it’s really not a huge deal and with an October birthday it sounds like he is where he should be as the oldest in the class. I’d let it go and let them move him up in September. In the meantime them letting him visit the older class is great exposure.

I guarantee they are not holding him back and he’s still developing just fine.

[fela]

Jan 6, 2023 18:13:30 GMT -5 jobae1234 said:

I want to start by saying that my DD was held back from the one year old room and was kept in the infant room for five extra months because she couldn’t walk independently yet and that was the final criteria to move (had to do with fire exit stuff). At the time I was very concerned about her development being in a room with much younger kids. Now I can say it ultimately didn’t matter at all. She’s six and she’s happy and healthy. So, many of these decisions that feel big at the time- in the grand scheme of things, they aren’t big.

If he’s happy in his current room I don’t see a rush to move him. I’d probably move him up if given the chance, but I don’t think mama bear mode is required.

I appreciate the perspective! If there was a criteria he wasn’t meeting I would totally understand - but it doesn’t sound like there is. So I still feel a little unsettled I guess. I will try to put Mama Bear back into hibernation!

[7costanza]

Knowing they’re concerned about one of the kids bullying your son in the older room, I’d probably want to keep him in the younger room as long as possible.

Also, my younger son is the same age as yours (late sept birthday), and in a room with 2-4 year olds and doing just fine. My older son was also in a mixed age daycare/preschool from ages 2.5-6. When he left for kindergarten he couldn’t read, and now in 3rd grade is reading well above grade level, so I wouldn’t worry about your son not getting exposure to letters and such at this point. At this age they learn so much just from playing!

[fela]

Jan 6, 2023 18:20:57 GMT -5 BicycleBride said:

You are way overthinking this. I am a preschool teacher. Traditional preschool at that age is far more about how to act in a group and get along with friends. There is nothing substantial to be gained from moving mid year and there are some potential drawbacks like disrupting social bonds with friends and teacher.

I appreciate your input as a teacher, and like I said I do not want to be THAT mom. But, you have the benefit of seeing this all the time whereas it’s all new for me! Part of my concern is that all but 1 of his friends are in the 3s class. The younger child who just moved is his BFF. So there is the social aspect too.

[joy]

What is this bullying situation? Is this the first you’ve heard of it?

That is bothering me more than anything else in this post.

[mpm]

We went through this with my first. I was angry at the time, and definitely get the urge to go into full mama bear mode. Now that we’re a few years out… it does not matter. They’ve both been the youngest and the oldest at various points and honestly at this age as long as they are happy and meeting milestones it’s all fine.

[fela]

Jan 6, 2023 18:31:27 GMT -5 7costanza said:

Knowing they’re concerned about one of the kids bullying your son in the older room, I’d probably want to keep him in the younger room as long as possible.

Also, my younger son is the same age as yours (late sept birthday), and in a room with 2-4 year olds and doing just fine. My older son was also in a mixed age daycare/preschool from ages 2.5-6. When he left for kindergarten he couldn’t read, and now in 3rd grade is reading well above grade level, so I wouldn’t worry about your son not getting exposure to letters and such at this point. At this age they learn so much just from playing!

The bullying thing really caught me off guard (and the director used that specific term - I don’t know what that entails) and I’ll admit has my hackles up a little. Not that I think it’s really serious, but using another kids behavior as a reason to not move my kid up rubs me the wrong way. I would have expected to be told about the issue earlier if it’s enough to impact things this way.

[al dente]

My mom has been in early childhood for 40 years, and keeping kids in the same room for the school year is what she considers best practice and told me to look for when looking at schools.
Schools that move kids up by age are doing it for financial reasons, to fit the most amount of kids in as possible. Going by the school year and having the same group and teacher helps everything run smoothly.

Granted kids do get moved around sometimes, and they may say it's due to age, but it's usually more related to classroom management and that kid working better in a different room for whatever reason. So I would drop this and be glad it seems like you're in a good school.

[fela]

Jan 6, 2023 18:37:21 GMT -5 joy said:

What is this bullying situation? Is this the first you’ve heard of it?

That is bothering me more than anything else in this post.

I don’t know what the situation is and yes, this was the first we had heard about it. Once school starts again I do plan to address that, because I would have preferred to be notified more proactively.

[flygirl]

I also think you’re overthinking this. They need to have enough teachers for the rooms first of all, but second of all when my DS was still in daycare he was in a section with younger kids. Why? Because some of the other kids, despite being younger, were more active and sometimes rough. DS was kind and played well with the younger kids and also didn’t like playing with some of the more active kids. It made sense. So I wouldn’t be all bent out of shape about not being moved yet. As long as they are learning age appropriate things, I’d be fine with how they’re handling it.

[wanderingback]

Jan 6, 2023 18:22:02 GMT -5 fela said:

Jan 6, 2023 18:05:58 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

As someone who is working on finding a daycare or nanny, how do you know the precise ages of other kids in his room? That’s just not a question I thought to ask. One of the daycares I’m planning to look at is a smaller daycare with kids if differing ages, so I never really saw it as a problem if a kid was the oldest or youngest at that age. What is your concern about his current room?

I know the ages just by talking with the other parents, birthday invites, etc. Many kids are local so we see them at the park, soccer lessons, and so on.

I think for infants/young toddlers it probably matters less. But now that their daily activities do include some kind of “learning” I do want it to be age appropriate for him. I don’t exactly have a concern about his current class except that it is now skewing much younger than him. Which was ok, though less than ideal, when I thought the 3s class didn’t have room. But now that I know there was room I’m wondering why he didn’t move up and if I should be advocating for him more or if he will be missing out.

Since his teacher has to plan activities that will fit younger kids as well as him, I worry that he may “fall behind” if the 3s are working on letters and numbers while he is still doing crafts. Which makes me feel ridiculous because he’s only 3, and yet I still want him doing what the other 3 year olds are doing…

Got it!
This doesn’t seem like a big deal to me. Especially if they have a concern about bullying I would want him to be in the current room and figure out the bullying situation. I don’t think he’ll fall behind on anything since it’s daycare, as long as they’re keeping him safe. Since he’ll move up later in the year that seems fine to me.

[k3am]

Also agreed that you're overthinking it. Which is hard not to do as the parent of a young kid, especially if it's your first... I know I worried about SO MANY things when my kids were young that now I look back at and realize how unimportant they were. If you're overall happy with the quality of care, I'd call this a minor incident and not worry too much about it. I generally try to reserve mama bear mode for health and safety issues.

I am side-eying your daycare's use of the word bullying to describe ANY situation with kids in in the 2-3 age range. I think the word gets thrown around kind of willy nilly in general to describe a lot of behaviors, but I just don't think kids that young are capable of bullying.

[fela]

Jan 6, 2023 18:54:43 GMT -5 k3am said:

Also agreed that you're overthinking it. Which is hard not to do as the parent of a young kid, especially if it's your first... I know I worried about SO MANY things when my kids were young that now I look back at and realize how unimportant they were. If you're overall happy with the quality of care, I'd call this a minor incident and not worry too much about it. I generally try to reserve mama bear mode for health and safety issues.

I am side-eying your daycare's use of the word bullying to describe ANY situation with kids in in the 2-3 age range. I think the word gets thrown around kind of willy nilly in general to describe a lot of behaviors, but I just don't think kids that young are capable of bullying.

That’s a good barometer for “mama bear mode”!

I agree about the “bully” term - when the director said it to us it was mid-afternoon on the last day of school before break and I’m sure she had 100 things going on, so I’m trying to give her the benefit of the doubt until I find out more.

[mccallister84]

Jan 6, 2023 18:22:02 GMT -5 fela said:

Jan 6, 2023 18:05:58 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

As someone who is working on finding a daycare or nanny, how do you know the precise ages of other kids in his room? That’s just not a question I thought to ask. One of the daycares I’m planning to look at is a smaller daycare with kids if differing ages, so I never really saw it as a problem if a kid was the oldest or youngest at that age. What is your concern about his current room?

I know the ages just by talking with the other parents, birthday invites, etc. Many kids are local so we see them at the park, soccer lessons, and so on.

I think for infants/young toddlers it probably matters less. But now that their daily activities do include some kind of “learning” I do want it to be age appropriate for him. I don’t exactly have a concern about his current class except that it is now skewing much younger than him. Which was ok, though less than ideal, when I thought the 3s class didn’t have room. But now that I know there was room I’m wondering why he didn’t move up and if I should be advocating for him more or if he will be missing out.

Since his teacher has to plan activities that will fit younger kids as well as him, I worry that he may “fall behind” if the 3s are working on letters and numbers while he is still doing crafts. Which makes me feel ridiculous because he’s only 3, and yet I still want him doing what the other 3 year olds are doing…

Well presumably he will get all that next year in the 3s classroom.

My DDs are November and June birthdays. So I’ve seen both ends of the spectrum. And yes in her 2s class (which she started at 2 years 10 months because it was run on the school year calendar) it did seem a little ridiculous that they spent a month on each color and shape when she had known those for what seemed like forever at this point. However I promise you, it all works out in the end.

[emilyinchile]

You say you thought they'd move them up in age order, but were you expecting your son to be moved during this year before you found out about the other kid being moved? Or just that you're surprised any move wasn't done based on age? If you were happy before finding out about another child's situation, I would take a breath and then forget all about this.

Fwiw my son is in a 1s and 2s class where he was the youngest for a bit, and this upcoming year (our school year starts in March) he'll stay in the same class as one of the oldest. I was super excited for him to learn from the older kids this year, but equally I think it'll be a positive experience for him to have the confidence of being one of the classroom leaders next year. I am not worried about the specifics of the "curriculum" until real school starts because right now he's learning SO much just about the world and his place in it, and that to me has a ton of value.

[arehopsveggies]

Not exactly the same, but…
As a teacher and a mom, I’ve always preferred a large age range in preschool. I loved teaching in a 3-5 room and looked for the same for my kids. I don’t think we need to focus so hard on kids being always grouped with peers that are exactly the same age

[fela]

Jan 6, 2023 20:05:45 GMT -5 emilyinchile said:

You say you thought they'd move them up in age order, but were you expecting your son to be moved during this year before you found out about the other kid being moved? Or just that you're surprised any move wasn't done based on age? If you were happy before finding out about another child's situation, I would take a breath and then forget all about this.

Fwiw my son is in a 1s and 2s class where he was the youngest for a bit, and this upcoming year (our school year starts in March) he'll stay in the same class as one of the oldest. I was super excited for him to learn from the older kids this year, but equally I think it'll be a positive experience for him to have the confidence of being one of the classroom leaders next year. I am not worried about the specifics of the "curriculum" until real school starts because right now he's learning SO much just about the world and his place in it, and that to me has a ton of value.

Both. I was expecting him to be moved soon-ish, though I didn’t know exactly when. And I felt his current class was fine while we were waiting for his spot to open up in the 3s. I didn’t know exactly when that would happen, but I did assume it was based on age. So now that a younger child has been moved instead of him for reasons unknown (and I hope to find out more) AND we are being told he may not move until September I just feel uneasy.

I’m prepared to be told there is some reason a younger child was moved instead of him - maybe they don’t feel he’s mature enough, maybe he vibes better with this teacher, etc - but I would hope that would have been a proactive conversation “Hey we don’t think he’s ready because of XYZ”. And While I understand that classroom management is an art and not a science, I don’t like the implication that another child’s behavior is limiting (in my mama bear brain) my kids progress.

I guess I just need to sit with this a bit longer, see how the visits to the 3s classroom go, and then check in.

[fela]

Jan 6, 2023 20:15:47 GMT -5 arehopsveggies said:

Not exactly the same, but…
As a teacher and a mom, I’ve always preferred a large age range in preschool. I loved teaching in a 3-5 room and looked for the same for my kids. I don’t think we need to focus so hard on kids being always grouped with peers that are exactly the same age

I do get this. I guess to me there seems like a larger difference between 2 and 3 than 3 and 5. Or at least between the 2s and 3s in his class, specifically.

[arehopsveggies]

Jan 6, 2023 20:24:32 GMT -5 fela said:

Jan 6, 2023 20:15:47 GMT -5 arehopsveggies said:

Not exactly the same, but…
As a teacher and a mom, I’ve always preferred a large age range in preschool. I loved teaching in a 3-5 room and looked for the same for my kids. I don’t think we need to focus so hard on kids being always grouped with peers that are exactly the same age

I do get this. I guess to me there seems like a larger difference between 2 and 3 than 3 and 5. Or at least between the 2s and 3s in his class, specifically.

The preschool I taught at had a 18 month-3 class also, so depending on birthday sometimes the kids would move at young three or old three. One of my favorite classes I’ve ever taught!

I really spend a lot of time thinking about (and I’m not joking- this is what my brain goes to at 3 am when I can’t sleep)- this is the first time in history where kids are put in homogenous age groupings mostly from birth, so kids aren’t learning to be kind and helpful with younger kids while they learn from bigger kids. I really strongly think this is a huge factor in the major decline in social skills I’m seeing as an elementary teacher (and I was thinking this before Covid…)

Sorry. I’m exhausted. It’s been a weird week. This is really something I rant about to anyone who listens. So usually just my mom and husband

[FastHands]

As someone else said, the only thing about this that would get my attention at all would be the bullying comment. In addition to what was already touched on, it kind of made my eyebrow jump that a daycare provider is talking about 3yo "bullying," which I am pretty sure is kind of beyond the capacity for that age, no?? Like I know they can be jerks to each other, but actually being concerned about targeted bullying at that age seems extreme if it's true, and definitely should have been discussed.

[fela]

Jan 6, 2023 20:34:30 GMT -5 arehopsveggies said:

Jan 6, 2023 20:24:32 GMT -5 fela said:

I do get this. I guess to me there seems like a larger difference between 2 and 3 than 3 and 5. Or at least between the 2s and 3s in his class, specifically.

The preschool I taught at had a 18 month-3 class also, so depending on birthday sometimes the kids would move at young three or old three. One of my favorite classes I’ve ever taught!

I really spend a lot of time thinking about (and I’m not joking- this is what my brain goes to at 3 am when I can’t sleep)- this is the first time in history where kids are put in homogenous age groupings mostly from birth, so kids aren’t learning to be kind and helpful with younger kids while they learn from bigger kids. I really strongly think this is a huge factor in the major decline in social skills I’m seeing as an elementary teacher (and I was thinking this before Covid…)

Sorry. I’m exhausted. It’s been a weird week. This is really something I rant about to anyone who listens. So usually just my mom and husband

That’s very interesting! Perhaps this will help him be more patient with his 17 month old sister - I’ll keep that in mind 😊

[emilyinchile]

Jan 6, 2023 20:18:20 GMT -5 fela said:

And While I understand that classroom management is an art and not a science, I don’t like the implication that another child’s behavior is limiting (in my mama bear brain) my kids progress.

If you were led to believe that your son would move up during the year then I totally understand feeling thrown by now being told it won't happen until September. It sounds like you're on the road to finding the best fit for your son through the classroom visits and more conversation with daycare, which is great.

I'm keeping this quote though because...dude, he's 3. It sounds incredibly stressful to think that he's being limited because he's in a classroom with kids who are slightly younger. He's going to learn plenty in whatever room he's in at this age as long as he's got good grown ups around (which presumably he does if you're happy with the place).

[sonrisa]

One thing it sounds like you haven't considered is that the move was entirely about that specific other family and other kid and not your kid at all.

If the school prefers to move kids at the break between years but moved that kid anyway, there might be something very specific going on.

Maybe he's a really physical, rough kid and they didn't feel the younger kids were safe with him in the room. Maybe he has something else going on that needs specific interventions that match better with the 3 year old class. Maybe his parents are really pushy and the school was tired of dealing with them.

[isabel]

For what it’s worth, in Montessori, kids are combined from ages 3-5. There can be a very wide gap and the expectation is that the older kids help teach the younger kids about the classroom and routines.

Your son has an opportunity here to be a leader in the classroom and work with his younger peers. That can be a great thing developmentally too.

Our program moved kids with their birthdays, not with a school year calendar, but it sounds like yours does and so your kid is in the appropriate class until September.

I imagine the school is also considering the dynamics of the two classrooms and whether one kid might be a better fit to move up. I’d actually be pleased that they’ve considered the bullying element.

This is not something I would get super upset about even though I understand why you’re having feelings about it.