Western states unlikely to agree on water use

[Velar Fricative]

Gift link, on mobile so sorry for the long link.

www.nytimes.com/2023/01/27/climate/colorado-river-biden-cuts.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuonUktbfqIhkSVUZBCbeWdkipwGLwvPIxLsmj3P5aTKUVztYiu4UD4WGvkzQebElZ8c2237TYu59B4IVZa44yP5DbQsqQhO0o5CAldNee3xso9q6ACY70srAGO0yr2evZzngeaIimOHv4Bjab2LuCKTPwDZ2clYe1JhvcVqr3HcPw76UUbImn4kjgopyQ8xyVjwCZyOVvvH3CBsYONiOaxzU7gBeSPgOEHiI3obas-RcBV0UXVHWT3p_43I-68dfOb4UOaX5Kh0neanukMj04Ro03pDITCBW5DLxpE8&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Basically, after next week the Biden administration may have to step in and come up with restrictions for water in the Colorado River states unless the states come up with their own agreements (unlikely). And then once the Biden administration steps in, they’ll probably be sued by the states. So round and round we go while the water continues to run out.

[pixy0stix]

I'm so tired. I don't understand why the people in charge don't have more urgency about this. (I actually do, they don't want to do the hard thing and tell the big lobbies not and lose precious political dollars.)

ETA: originally typed on the phone - fixed mistakes

[suburbanzookeeper]

Jan 27, 2023 11:33:27 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I'm so tired. I don't understand why the people in charge don't have more urgency about this. (I actually do, they don't want to do the hard thing and tell the big lobbies no and lose precious political dollars.

If you keep kicking the can down the road, eventually it won't be your problem. /s

Literally the issue we're seeing locally with basic things like roadway infrastructure. No one wanted to make hard decisions initially so now we're all fucked. 

[pixy0stix]

I also urge people to start contacting their State government reps in the following states - Colorado, Wyoming, New Mexico, Utah, Arizona, Nevada, and Southern California

[macmars45]

"If Arizona could have foreseen that climate change would permanently reduce the river’s flow, it might never have agreed to that deal, said Tom Buschatzke, director of the state’s Department of Water Resources." 

*face palm* Scientists have been screaming about climate change since forever... no one wanted to listen. They instead decided to bury their heads in the sand and pass the buck to the next generation.

[pixy0stix]

Over the weekend I received a response from my State House Rep:

Thank you for reaching out and for sharing your concerns. Water will be a top priority for our state legislature this year, and in coming sessions. Our Attorney General has also signaled that water will be a priority for his office in the coming years. On my end, I do have a bill that focuses on water usage/conservation in oil and gas operations. Unfortunately, a significant amount of our state's fresh water goes to the oil and gas industry. Communities deserve transparency and accountability when it comes to where our freshwater resources are being used. Oil and gas operations already use recycled or reclaimed water in other states; Colorado should evaluate to what extent this is possible here. As you mention, climate change is real and we must take action to ensure we have the water we need to thrive. Thank you again for taking the time to share your thoughts.

While promising, I feel like this is kicking the ball into someone else's court. O&G isn't the biggest use of water in CO, it's agriculture. Yet no one wants to touch that third rail.

[pixy0stix]

The AP looked at the emails regarding the negotiations, it's a fascinating (and frustrating) inside look at the bargaining. coloradosun.com/2023/01/29/emails-reveal-big-tensions-in-colorado-river-water-use-talks/

[pixy0stix]

6 out of the 7 states have reached a tentative agreement - CA refused: wapo.st/40sSUHU

[sonrisa]

Jan 31, 2023 13:11:06 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

6 out of the 7 states have reached a tentative agreement - CA refused: wapo.st/40sSUHU

Come on, SoCal!  Get with the program.  

[Michelle]

Jan 30, 2023 10:10:29 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Over the weekend I received a response from my State House Rep:

Thank you for reaching out and for sharing your concerns. Water will be a top priority for our state legislature this year, and in coming sessions. Our Attorney General has also signaled that water will be a priority for his office in the coming years. On my end, I do have a bill that focuses on water usage/conservation in oil and gas operations. Unfortunately, a significant amount of our state's fresh water goes to the oil and gas industry. Communities deserve transparency and accountability when it comes to where our freshwater resources are being used. Oil and gas operations already use recycled or reclaimed water in other states; Colorado should evaluate to what extent this is possible here. As you mention, climate change is real and we must take action to ensure we have the water we need to thrive. Thank you again for taking the time to share your thoughts.

While promising, I feel like this is kicking the ball into someone else's court. O&G isn't the biggest use of water in CO, it's agriculture. Yet no one wants to touch that third rail.

Is it safe to use reclaimed/recycled water for agriculture? I'm sure that is part of the concern/controversy. There is no worry about using it for O&G operations from a consumption standpoint, but I could imagine that coming up with fear mongering, even if it IS perfectly safe. (I have no biology knowledge in that regard... I know i use roof-runoff rain barrels for decorative plants and trees, but not our garden beds with edible herbs and stuff in them).

[purplinsky]

Feb 1, 2023 18:55:51 GMT -5 Michelle said:

Jan 30, 2023 10:10:29 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Over the weekend I received a response from my State House Rep:

While promising, I feel like this is kicking the ball into someone else's court. O&G isn't the biggest use of water in CO, it's agriculture. Yet no one wants to touch that third rail.

Is it safe to use reclaimed/recycled water for agriculture? I'm sure that is part of the concern/controversy. There is no worry about using it for O&G operations from a consumption standpoint, but I could imagine that coming up with fear mongering, even if it IS perfectly safe. (I have no biology knowledge in that regard... I know i use roof-runoff rain barrels for decorative plants and trees, but not our garden beds with edible herbs and stuff in them).

It is safe and legal to use reclaimed water for ag, at least it is in AZ. You just have to use the appropriate class of water or better and you have to obtain a permit from the state.

[minzy]

I was at another climate talk last night and the speaker was so upset that this isn’t front page news everywhere, given how big a crisis it is.

[msmerymac]

Jan 31, 2023 13:31:56 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Jan 31, 2023 13:11:06 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

6 out of the 7 states have reached a tentative agreement - CA refused: wapo.st/40sSUHU

Come on, SoCal!  Get with the program.  

It's on point for LA, though. See also: Chinatown

I think I've told this story before, by my H and I drove from LA to Inyo county... I can't remember what trip it was exactly. We were either going to Manzanar in the Owens Valley or we were driving up to Mammoth Mountain or something, but definitely over on the eastern side of the Sierras. Anyway, we stopped at a park to sit and eat lunch, and the park had a sign saying that the water was managed by Inyo County and the City of Los Angeles.   Because the aqueducts, William Mulholland, etc, etc. 

[audette]

And, not part of the negotiations, but also a sign of drought and water issues, Great Salt Lake is drying up...

www.npr.org/2023/02/03/1153550793/climate-change-and-a-population-boom-could-dry-up-the-great-salt-lake-in-5-years?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=nprnews&fbclid=IwAR1_3F3rVk9S6_HcxIa_PVGa_0BPjgBhiKhB3UvrRzzrawJbUX_qTodAPAc

[pinkdutchtulips]

My sister who heads up River Partners (riverpartners.org) is carefully watching this one. Usually she's trying to restore and conserve river/watersheds, in this instance though, she's all about finding new ways to increase the aquifers to reduce reliance on CO River water to So Cal.

[aurora]

Feb 7, 2023 12:57:01 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

My sister who heads up River Partners (riverpartners.org) is carefully watching this one. Usually she's trying to restore and conserve river/watersheds, in this instance though, she's all about finding new ways to increase the aquifers to reduce reliance on CO River water to So Cal.

Wouldn't interesting the use of aquifers be a short-term solution? I'm assuming they take a long time to refill.

Seems like fundamentally we need to use less water, not find new water to use.

[pixy0stix]

Feb 7, 2023 14:02:50 GMT -5 aurora said:

Feb 7, 2023 12:57:01 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

My sister who heads up River Partners (riverpartners.org) is carefully watching this one. Usually she's trying to restore and conserve river/watersheds, in this instance though, she's all about finding new ways to increase the aquifers to reduce reliance on CO River water to So Cal.

Wouldn't interesting the use of aquifers be a short-term solution? I'm assuming they take a long time to refill.

Seems like fundamentally we need to use less water, not find new water to use.

Yeah, I'm not following the logic on this one and couldn't find anything on their website.

[InBetweenDays]

Feb 7, 2023 14:02:50 GMT -5 aurora said:

Feb 7, 2023 12:57:01 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

My sister who heads up River Partners (riverpartners.org) is carefully watching this one. Usually she's trying to restore and conserve river/watersheds, in this instance though, she's all about finding new ways to increase the aquifers to reduce reliance on CO River water to So Cal.

Wouldn't interesting the use of aquifers be a short-term solution? I'm assuming they take a long time to refill.

Seems like fundamentally we need to use less water, not find new water to use.

I definitely think the focus needs to be on using less water. But I also think we need to rework a lot of our water systems to try and mimic a more natural water cycle. For instance in most areas stormwater runs off roads and other hard surfaces, into pipes, and then out to the nearest waterbody. I think there should be a focus on trying to do more stormwater treatment and infiltration (where soils, etc allow) to try and recharge the aquifers rather than just sending all the stormwater out to the rivers and lakes in these large pulses. Rework things and get more creative to try and restore the balance.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Feb 7, 2023 16:24:09 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

Feb 7, 2023 14:02:50 GMT -5 aurora said:

Wouldn't interesting the use of aquifers be a short-term solution? I'm assuming they take a long time to refill.

Seems like fundamentally we need to use less water, not find new water to use.

I definitely think the focus needs to be on using less water. But I also think we need to rework a lot of our water systems to try and mimic a more natural water cycle. For instance in most areas stormwater runs off roads and other hard surfaces, into pipes, and then out to the nearest waterbody. I think there should be a focus on trying to do more stormwater treatment and infiltration (where soils, etc allow) to try and recharge the aquifers rather than just sending all the stormwater out to the rivers and lakes in these large pulses. Rework things and get more creative to try and restore the balance.

thank you for explaining far better than me what my sister is trying to do ..

[InBetweenDays]

Feb 7, 2023 17:21:47 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

Feb 7, 2023 16:24:09 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

I definitely think the focus needs to be on using less water. But I also think we need to rework a lot of our water systems to try and mimic a more natural water cycle. For instance in most areas stormwater runs off roads and other hard surfaces, into pipes, and then out to the nearest waterbody. I think there should be a focus on trying to do more stormwater treatment and infiltration (where soils, etc allow) to try and recharge the aquifers rather than just sending all the stormwater out to the rivers and lakes in these large pulses. Rework things and get more creative to try and restore the balance.

thank you for explaining far better than me what my sister is trying to do ..

Well ironically I saw your post as I was working on a presentation I'm giving to a local city's environmental technical advisory committee on stormwater treatment technologies that are approved here for infiltration The committee is trying to convince the city to do more infiltration because the city (which is also an island) relies solely on groundwater for their water supply. So they're worried not only about dwindling aquifers, but also how that could lead to saltwater intrusion.

[aurora]

Feb 7, 2023 16:24:09 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

Feb 7, 2023 14:02:50 GMT -5 aurora said:

Wouldn't interesting the use of aquifers be a short-term solution? I'm assuming they take a long time to refill.

Seems like fundamentally we need to use less water, not find new water to use.

I definitely think the focus needs to be on using less water. But I also think we need to rework a lot of our water systems to try and mimic a more natural water cycle. For instance in most areas stormwater runs off roads and other hard surfaces, into pipes, and then out to the nearest waterbody. I think there should be a focus on trying to do more stormwater treatment and infiltration (where soils, etc allow) to try and recharge the aquifers rather than just sending all the stormwater out to the rivers and lakes in these large pulses. Rework things and get more creative to try and restore the balance.

Well, sure! Permeable surfaces (that let the water soak through instead of running off) should definitely be a major part of urban design. But increasing how well we recharge aquifers is probably not going to be sustainable if we are also increasing how much we draw from them.

[InBetweenDays]

Feb 7, 2023 22:49:24 GMT -5 aurora said:

Feb 7, 2023 16:24:09 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

I definitely think the focus needs to be on using less water. But I also think we need to rework a lot of our water systems to try and mimic a more natural water cycle. For instance in most areas stormwater runs off roads and other hard surfaces, into pipes, and then out to the nearest waterbody. I think there should be a focus on trying to do more stormwater treatment and infiltration (where soils, etc allow) to try and recharge the aquifers rather than just sending all the stormwater out to the rivers and lakes in these large pulses. Rework things and get more creative to try and restore the balance.

Well, sure! Permeable surfaces (that let the water soak through instead of running off) should definitely be a major part of urban design. But increasing how well we recharge aquifers is probably not going to be sustainable if we are also increasing how much we draw from them.

I agree

[pixy0stix]

CO has retention ponds all over the place, but also there's a lot of places where we can't legally retain water and it has to flow downstream. (I get that there's a ton of nuance we're not getting, and pinkdutchtulips  sister is an expert in her field.) Western water laws are so convoluted.

I do think that water retention is just a very small piece of this. CA has a ton of ag that just needs to end, with avocados and almonds right up at the top.

[sonrisa]

Feb 8, 2023 9:56:54 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I do think that water retention is just a very small piece of this. CA has a ton of ag that just needs to end, with avocados and almonds right up at the top.

Rice. We grow rice in semi-desert. It's insane.