Chinese spy balloon over Montana

[basilosaurus]

Feb 9, 2023 10:05:11 GMT -5 bears said:

Feb 9, 2023 9:53:11 GMT -5 marcyiam said:

I wonder if it's related to Charlie the Tuna from the Starkist tuna commercials.

Is it normal for call-signs/nicknames like that to make it into the article? I was really amused to see him quoted as Charlie "Tuna."

lol yes it's normal. I still want the story

[al dente]

What is happening here? Two more unidentified object shot down Friday and Saturday
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/12/politics/unidentified-object-canada-alaska-military-latest/index.html

And then a wall of green lights shows up over Hawaii from a suspected Chinese satellite, which may be for "science"
www.vice.com/en/article/bvm9y5/green-lasers-sky-hawaii-chinese-satellite

[litebright]

Feb 12, 2023 4:09:09 GMT -5 al dente said:

What is happening here? Two more unidentified object shot down Friday and Saturday
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/02/12/politics/unidentified-object-canada-alaska-military-latest/index.html

And then a wall of green lights shows up over Hawaii from a suspected Chinese satellite, which may be for "science"
www.vice.com/en/article/bvm9y5/green-lasers-sky-hawaii-chinese-satellite

PDQ. So, the second one is quite possibly entirely legitimate, and I think we need to remember that we don't own space and are not the only country that does, um, "science." My DH's company built the laser system that people originally thought was the source of the green light: the ATLAS system on NASA's ICESat2. It does indeed shoot a green laser beam at the earth to measure things like polar ice sheets and other features in granular detail. He was just in Hawaii a couple of months ago testing another green laser, in fact.

There are plenty of legit things to be nervous about when it comes to China and other geopolitical adversaries, but also, not everything is about us or part of the same narrative just because of timing. 

[docholly]

A fourth object has been shot down over Lake Huron per CNN.

[cattledogkisses]

I wonder if this is one of those things that has always been happening semi-regularly, but has only recently become a big public news story. (Kind of like how the public recently found out that government officials having classified documents in their homes is apparently a common thing.) I've read that there were multiple spy balloon incidents during the Trump administration, so it doesn't seem to be anything new, it just sounds like this one happened to travel over more populated areas and caught the public eye.

[pixy0stix]

Feb 12, 2023 16:58:56 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

I wonder if this is one of those things that has always been happening semi-regularly, but has only recently become a big public news story. (Kind of like how the public recently found out that government officials having classified documents in their homes is apparently a common thing.) I've read that there were multiple spy balloon incidents during the Trump administration, so it doesn't seem to be anything new, it just sounds like this one happened to travel over more populated areas and caught the public eye.

Re: Trump - it is a big deal because they only now figured out what they were since they recently captured two of them. It's weird how people keep trying to downplay this.

[lilac05]

Feb 12, 2023 19:38:37 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Feb 12, 2023 16:58:56 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

I wonder if this is one of those things that has always been happening semi-regularly, but has only recently become a big public news story. (Kind of like how the public recently found out that government officials having classified documents in their homes is apparently a common thing.) I've read that there were multiple spy balloon incidents during the Trump administration, so it doesn't seem to be anything new, it just sounds like this one happened to travel over more populated areas and caught the public eye.

Re: Trump - it is a big deal because they only now figured out what they were since they recently captured two of them. It's weird how people keep trying to downplay this.

For me, it has nothing to do with downplaying it. I just chalk it up to one of the countless things that our military and intelligence community know about and address without the general public’s knowledge. It’s absolutely a big deal…but I don’t get the impression that it’s anything actually new to the people who need to know vs new to the general population.

[momof2ms]

This whole thing has been captivating to me. I did see one news clip that said that now that they are keeping an eye out, they will inevitably notice and find more and be more proactive in taking things down.

A fighter jet flew over my house Friday as my son and I walked in from school pickup. Never heard anything about it later but it’s jarring to me.

[Deleted]

Feb 13, 2023 6:20:33 GMT -5 momof2ms said:

This whole thing has been captivating to me. I did see one news clip that said that now that they are keeping an eye out, they will inevitably notice and find more and be more proactive in taking things down.

A fighter jet flew over my house Friday as my son and I walked in from school pickup. Never heard anything about it later but it’s jarring to me.

I’m sorry it was jarring. But fighter jets do fly around a lot of places for routine training missions, so the presence of one (even someplace unexpected) doesn’t necessarily mean that there’s any danger.

From my perspective, if we’re going to scramble fighters every time we see a random unidentified balloon, it’s going to get both very wearing on those aircrew (who are already over-tasked and stretched thin), and expensive (those missiles aren’t cheap, y’all….and we’ll have to keep them in a state of readiness at a lot more locations). It’s probably time to work on a non-kinetic solution.

[pixy0stix]

Feb 13, 2023 0:59:28 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Feb 12, 2023 19:38:37 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Re: Trump - it is a big deal because they only now figured out what they were since they recently captured two of them. It's weird how people keep trying to downplay this.

For me, it has nothing to do with downplaying it. I just chalk it up to one of the countless things that our military and intelligence community know about and address without the general public’s knowledge. It’s absolutely a big deal…but I don’t get the impression that it’s anything actually new to the people who need to know vs new to the general population.

But it's absolutely new to the people who need to know. As stated in articles in this thread, they didn't know what those balloons were during Trump's admin. All of this is new, per the government.

[wawa]

Feb 13, 2023 8:04:01 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Feb 13, 2023 6:20:33 GMT -5 momof2ms said:

This whole thing has been captivating to me. I did see one news clip that said that now that they are keeping an eye out, they will inevitably notice and find more and be more proactive in taking things down.

A fighter jet flew over my house Friday as my son and I walked in from school pickup. Never heard anything about it later but it’s jarring to me.

I’m sorry it was jarring. But fighter jets do fly around a lot of places for routine training missions, so the presence of one (even someplace unexpected) doesn’t necessarily mean that there’s any danger.

From my perspective, if we’re going to scramble fighters every time we see a random unidentified balloon, it’s going to get both very wearing on those aircrew (who are already over-tasked and stretched thin), and expensive (those missiles aren’t cheap, y’all….and we’ll have to keep them in a state of readiness at a lot more locations). It’s probably time to work on a non-kinetic solution.

Does that mean a diplomatic solution or like...some sort of "not flinging shit through the air" based tech?  

[pixy0stix]

www.nytimes.com/2023/02/12/us/politics/us-shoots-down-object-michigan.html

Supporting the "the gov didn't know" theory is that they've adjusted the radar to pick up lower flying objects and now they're finding a bunch. They don't know if it's because they've always been there, or if it's because there really are more objects being launched.

[docholly]

I think Americans have a lot of hubris when it comes to our military. We have, without a doubt, the most well-funded military in the world, but we aren’t so magical and far and away superior that it isn’t possible that a country could ever catch us unaware.

That is exactly what other countries are consistently trying to do… out maneuver us.

Of course, there is a lot the average person isn’t aware of, but it does seem like this situation is newly concerning for the pentagon.

If nothing else, having frequent objects at a level of threat to commercial air traffic is a major concern.

The ones over Lake Huron and Alaska were at that altitude of concern.

[Deleted]

Feb 13, 2023 9:21:53 GMT -5 wawa said:

Feb 13, 2023 8:04:01 GMT -5 @villainv said:

I’m sorry it was jarring. But fighter jets do fly around a lot of places for routine training missions, so the presence of one (even someplace unexpected) doesn’t necessarily mean that there’s any danger.

From my perspective, if we’re going to scramble fighters every time we see a random unidentified balloon, it’s going to get both very wearing on those aircrew (who are already over-tasked and stretched thin), and expensive (those missiles aren’t cheap, y’all….and we’ll have to keep them in a state of readiness at a lot more locations). It’s probably time to work on a non-kinetic solution.

Does that mean a diplomatic solution or like...some sort of "not flinging shit through the air" based tech?  

“Not flinging shit through the air.” Think jamming or some other kind of denial that doesn’t involve shooting missiles (or dropping bombs, or shooting bullets, depending on the context). They haven’t come out and said it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we jammed the Chinese balloon’s antennae to prevent it from collecting before we shot it down (or perhaps even sent spoofer-type data so the balloon wouldn’t know it was being jammed).

[neverfstop]

any good reason we shot down the one in Canada? Was it that imminent a security threat that the Canadians couldn't do it or do we have some special planes/missiles? Were US planes just closer...or do we often go into Canadian airspace (with their approval)?

[pixy0stix]

Feb 13, 2023 14:12:31 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

any good reason we shot down the one in Canada? Was it that imminent a security threat that the Canadians couldn't do it or do we have some special planes/missiles? Were US planes just closer...or do we often go into Canadian airspace (with their approval)?

Per the CNN article upthread: “Monitoring continued today as the object crossed into Canadian airspace, with Canadian CF-18 and CP-140 aircraft joining the formation to further assess the object,” Ryder’s statement said.

Eyre said Saturday that “the instructions that were given to the the team was whoever had the first best shot to take out the balloon had to go ahead.”

[neverfstop]

Feb 13, 2023 14:16:29 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Feb 13, 2023 14:12:31 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

any good reason we shot down the one in Canada? Was it that imminent a security threat that the Canadians couldn't do it or do we have some special planes/missiles? Were US planes just closer...or do we often go into Canadian airspace (with their approval)?

Per the CNN article upthread: “Monitoring continued today as the object crossed into Canadian airspace, with Canadian CF-18 and CP-140 aircraft joining the formation to further assess the object,” Ryder’s statement said.

Eyre said Saturday that “the instructions that were given to the the team was whoever had the first best shot to take out the balloon had to go ahead.”

That makes it sound like US planes were tracking it and then just followed it into Canadian airspace, then the US pilots had a better shot.
I'm just thinking about all the logistics and coordination it would take for our planes to fly into another country's airspace.  These planes are traveling a few hundred miles an hour & the balloon (?) thing was just moving very slowly?? Did they have to keep circling it or did they did a "fly by" in Top gun fashion and have video/photos sent back to their commanders? I need the full story!

[mcsangel2]

Feb 13, 2023 14:12:31 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

any good reason we shot down the one in Canada? Was it that imminent a security threat that the Canadians couldn't do it or do we have some special planes/missiles? Were US planes just closer...or do we often go into Canadian airspace (with their approval)?

If it's the one I'm thinking of (because there are so many now...) it's because our planes were closer and there is limited daylight in the area because of how far north it is.

[cattledogkisses]

Feb 13, 2023 14:12:31 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

any good reason we shot down the one in Canada? Was it that imminent a security threat that the Canadians couldn't do it or do we have some special planes/missiles? Were US planes just closer...or do we often go into Canadian airspace (with their approval)?

I think we do a lot of defense cooperation with Canada.  We jointly run NORAD with them.

[wawa]

Feb 13, 2023 14:07:14 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Feb 13, 2023 9:21:53 GMT -5 wawa said:

Does that mean a diplomatic solution or like...some sort of "not flinging shit through the air" based tech?  

“Not flinging shit through the air.” Think jamming or some other kind of denial that doesn’t involve shooting missiles (or dropping bombs, or shooting bullets, depending on the context). They haven’t come out and said it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we jammed the Chinese balloon’s antennae to prevent it from collecting before we shot it down (or perhaps even sent spoofer-type data so the balloon wouldn’t know it was being jammed).

got it.  that makes sense.  

[aurora]

Feb 13, 2023 15:03:51 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

Feb 13, 2023 14:12:31 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

any good reason we shot down the one in Canada? Was it that imminent a security threat that the Canadians couldn't do it or do we have some special planes/missiles? Were US planes just closer...or do we often go into Canadian airspace (with their approval)?

I think we do a lot of defense cooperation with Canada.  We jointly run NORAD with them.

I actually didn't know we ran NORAD jointly with Canada until this balloon news started happening! Makes a lot of sense, though.

I think I read that our plane originated in a base in Alaska, which has a substantial Air Force presence and borders Canada's Yukon Territory (where it was shot down). I'm not sure where the closest Canadian base is to that area, but there's a lot of space between population centers in that whole NW part of the continent.

[maudefindlay]

Feb 13, 2023 0:59:28 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Feb 12, 2023 19:38:37 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Re: Trump - it is a big deal because they only now figured out what they were since they recently captured two of them. It's weird how people keep trying to downplay this.

For me, it has nothing to do with downplaying it. I just chalk it up to one of the countless things that our military and intelligence community know about and address without the general public’s knowledge. It’s absolutely a big deal…but I don’t get the impression that it’s anything actually new to the people who need to know vs new to the general population.

Along these lines I wonder if we fly balloons over other countries.

[basilosaurus]

Feb 13, 2023 18:33:43 GMT -5 aurora said:

Feb 13, 2023 15:03:51 GMT -5 cattledogkisses said:

I think we do a lot of defense cooperation with Canada.  We jointly run NORAD with them.

I actually didn't know we ran NORAD jointly with Canada until this balloon news started happening! Makes a lot of sense, though.

I think I read that our plane originated in a base in Alaska, which has a substantial Air Force presence and borders Canada's Yukon Territory (where it was shot down). I'm not sure where the closest Canadian base is to that area, but there's a lot of space between population centers in that whole NW part of the continent.

I've taught people who work at NORAD and didn't know!

[pixy0stix]

Feb 14, 2023 7:00:42 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

Feb 13, 2023 0:59:28 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

For me, it has nothing to do with downplaying it. I just chalk it up to one of the countless things that our military and intelligence community know about and address without the general public’s knowledge. It’s absolutely a big deal…but I don’t get the impression that it’s anything actually new to the people who need to know vs new to the general population.

Along these lines I wonder if we fly balloons over other countries.

Ours tend to be drones.

[Michelle]

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