Those with college bound students - help!: UPDATED IN OP

[whattheheck]

UPDATE: He decided on Choice A and is excited about it!  I've decided to embrace his decision, set my own feelings aside, share his excitement, and be confident in his decision.  I feel like so long as he is excited about it - he can make the living environment what he needs.  He is a bit of an introvert so he doesn't need a non-stop social scence.  I will miss him something awful though.  But I am super proud of him.  Thanks for all of the help.

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So my son (a HS senior) has narrowed down his choices to two schools - both two-year applied technology programs but two totally different programs.

Choice A:
three hours away
enrollment about 1800 students
I think he would like this program better (although he is undecided)
School is further away and not close to any town without easy access to his favorite sport and unknown if there is a Scout Troop looking for volunteers

Choice B:
about 90 minutes away
enrollment about 2700 students
I know he would like this program - but I don't think as much as Program A
Obviously school is closer so he could come home for a day trip as opposed to having to make a weekend out of it
Remote town but close (30 minutes) from a larger town that has access to his favorite sport and a team that he could volunteer as an assistant coach for; has a local Scout troop that he could volunteer with
Closer means easier access to his current doctor (important to me bc he was recently diagnosed with depression that manifested with self-harm)

Obviously - totally his decision and I support either one (and frankly I don't even know what I want). 

Choice A - I feel like he would be happier with the school/program.  Choice B - I feel like he would be happier with campus life because he would have access to more of his things to do while at school.

Other important info - cost is approximately the same; freshman can have cars on campus at both schools; he is kind of an introvert but loves his sport and loves Scouts; both schools have open lifeguard positions so he could easily get a job. I've put down a refundable deposit at both schools (with his permission) because the program spots were filling quickly (there were less than six spots in each still available when I made the deposits) so he could have a little more time to make his decision.

What other questions should he be considering?  Based on all of the above, which would you recommend if it was your student?  I don't know how to guide him.  (And he does NOT like his guidance counselor so that's not happening - I'm not fond of her either.)  HELP!

[jinkies]

If you think he would like either program, it sounds like option 2 is a no brainer.

I think you have to look at the options as a whole package-- a great academic program with fewer social outlets/ less access to preferred extracurriculars does not sound as appealing as a still-good program with a full social life.

[sonrisa]

Apr 3, 2023 11:03:18 GMT -5 whattheheck said:

a team that he could volunteer as an assistant coach for

Is this a sure thing? I don't know his sport or your region, but around here a lot of those positions are about who you already know and your connections within the community. I would be careful to factor this in unless someone has reached out to him and specifically asking him to join them as an assistant coach.

And even if it is, will he have time to be an assistant coach for something that involved and out of town? (Is 30 minutes the drive time during peak hours like sports practice? Often drive times are cited at the low end while kid activities happen at peak traffic.)

Both those interests sound like he would spend a lot of time mentoring younger kids. Which is sweet, but will take away from his time and opportunity to connect with peers going into his field and make same age friends.

The kids will still be there to mentor in 2 years, but the window to connect with college peers won't.

[smock]

Why do you think he'd like A more? Reading the description, it sounds like B is a better fit all around, since you think he'd like B and he'd have a better campus life and support system. Even if A might be a better fit academically, it sounds like he'd have to put a lot of effort into building a network and connecting with people.

As for questions he can ask, is there a difference in the programs in terms of job placement rates, internship/experiential learning, student support services, school reputation? Is he excited about the idea of moving farther and starting fresh, or is he nervous about it?

[whattheheck]

Apr 3, 2023 11:09:16 GMT -5 jinkies said:

If you think he would like either program, it sounds like option 2 is a no brainer.

I think you have to look at the options as a whole package-- a great academic program with fewer social outlets/ less access to preferred extracurriculars does not sound as appealing as a still-good program with a full social life.

They're not really academic programs - they are hands-on applied technology programs (diesel mechanics and welding).  So whichever he chooses - THAT is what he is going to be doing, at least initially, out of school.  Which is why I think it may be more important that a typical college degree where you can do multiple things with a degree.  That's what's tripping me up.

[whattheheck]

sonrisa, Yes, it's a sure thing. It's for the same league he participates in now. He's spoken with the coach who would love to have him help when he is available. Practices are typically just Saturday mornings. It's mountain biking - so either he rides as an assistant coach with the team, or he rides by himself. So I'm not sure the time spent would be a lot different. And as a coach I feel like he would feel compelled to go - and less likely to just sit in his dorm and have his depression creep back up.

[jinkies]

My son is actually waiting on acceptance to high school tech school for either auto mechanics or welding! I know my husband, who has a better sense of the field for both, is strongly encouraging welding. I do think it can pay pretty well.

I think at the end of the day though, the point stands whether it's a traditional college program or a trade.

If your kid has struggled with depression that manifested in self harm, and is introverted outside of his preferred outlets (his sport and scouts), then I would prioritize an environment where he can continue those outlets.

Especially if he thinks he would be happy in either trade.


ETA: and DS is also really into mountain biking, so I get the love there. It's such a great community

[bex1973]

I don't have a college bound kid but I've worked in higher ed for 25 years. So much of college is about fit and the out of classroom experience and connecting with people so I wouldn't put too much weight on whether you think he'll like one program - especially if he is undecided. Did you mean undecided on a program or undecided if he'd like one program more than the other?

In terms of connection options it sounds like option B would offer more and that would give it more points on my scale. Has he been able to meet any current students or faculty at either school? Talking to students especially will give a better sense of the school.

[whattheheck]

Apr 3, 2023 11:13:43 GMT -5 smock said:

Why do you think he'd like A more? Reading the description, it sounds like B is a better fit all around, since you think he'd like B and he'd have a better campus life and support system. Even if A might be a better fit academically, it sounds like he'd have to put a lot of effort into building a network and connecting with people.

As for questions he can ask, is there a difference in the programs in terms of job placement rates, internship/experiential learning, student support services, school reputation? Is he excited about the idea of moving farther and starting fresh, or is he nervous about it?

I think he would like A better because that is what is he doing in his HS BOCES program (with a little bit of B thrown in) and loves it.  And it's what he's been leaning toward when talking about college.  Job placement rates are similar; internships might be a little easier with A - but there's no internships required; support services and school reputation are similar.

He's excited about going to college - most of the time.  And then he talks about staying home and doing BOCES Adult Ed in the same fields.  I have conflicting feelings on the distance.  Choice B - I worry he would come home too much and not really get into campus life.  Choice A - I worry he wouldn't find as much to do and stay in his room and not really get into campus life.

[nicolewi]

It seems like option B is just a better quality of life choice. As long as the program will still be appropriate and help your kid get a job, I would definitely go for option B, and have a more well-rounded and less isolated time.

[whattheheck]

Apr 3, 2023 11:21:11 GMT -5 bex1973 said:

I don't have a college bound kid but I've worked in higher ed for 25 years. So much of college is about fit and the out of classroom experience and connecting with people so I wouldn't put too much weight on whether you think he'll like one program - especially if he is undecided. Did you mean undecided on a program or undecided if he'd like one program more than the other?

In terms of connection options it sounds like option B would offer more and that would give it more points on my scale. Has he been able to meet any current students or faculty at either school? Talking to students especially will give a better sense of the school.

College A offers diesel mechanics, but not welding.  College B offers welding, but not diesel mechanics.  Both are two-year AOS programs.  And yes - he did a prospective students day at A and an accepted students day at B.  So he was able to speak with students who are in the programs he is looking at, eat in the cafeteria and speak with students who were not admissions reps, meet faculty, and tour the labs/workspace.

[sonrisa]

Apr 3, 2023 11:17:59 GMT -5 whattheheck said:

sonrisa , Yes, it's a sure thing. It's for the same league he participates in now. He's spoken with the coach who would love to have him help when he is available. Practices are typically just Saturday mornings. It's mountain biking - so either he rides as an assistant coach with the team, or he rides by himself. So I'm not sure the time spent would be a lot different. And as a coach I feel like he would feel compelled to go - and less likely to just sit in his dorm and have his depression creep back up.

Ah. I see. Your kid is my BIL - very introverted, loves to mountain bike (and snowboard in his case), suited to hands on, applied fields, just welding rather than drafting. For him, college friendships have been crucial for all his (happy) adult life. (Not all his friends came from then, but those friends had deep enough bonds to connect him to other people - he's not the type to naturally reach out and connect.)

I would push for whichever campus had the most engaged, social student body, with on campus housing, dining and general community building. In someways he needs that more than the extroverts do. He needs a roommate/dorm neighbor down the hall who drags him out to do things and make those connections.

How far are the closest mountain biking trails to Option A (*if* that is the more engaged school)? If it's within 90 minutes and he loves it, he'll go. And when he doesn't he'll end up doing things with the people around him instead. Win, win. 

(Mountain biking is a life long sport, so considering it when considering college makes more sense to me than sports that basically stop after graduation).

[mcppalmbeach]

I agree with jinkies word for word given that he himself hasn’t really expressed a preference one way or another for the program. Given that his experience with self harm was recent, priority for me would be closer to home, drs and positive outlets that are familiar and comfortable for him. If he really expressed a preference for the farther away program I’d revisit, but given that’s not the case then I like everything option B has more.

[smock]

Okay, so he's choosing between two different career paths, essentially. That's definitely trickier than choosing between two schools as an undecided major! Is it possible to try B for a semester and move to A if he realizes he'd prefer the other program?

Also, to ease your worries, my sister went to college 90 minutes from home and I chose a school in my hometown, and we both got involved in campus life (and we both also stayed in our rooms sometimes because that's how introverts roll). I never went home for the weekends even though it was a 20 min. bus ride away.

It might help to tell yourself that there will be hurdles to overcome with either option, but there's really not a wrong choice. If he hates either program or has a hard time fitting in, he can transfer. From the outside, B has a lot of pros, but he also has to think about what career path he wants to follow long term, while remembering that it's never too late to change paths. I got a freaking Ph.D. and tenure as a professor and then started a new career, so it can be done!

[whattheheck]

Apr 3, 2023 11:31:29 GMT -5 mcppalmbeach said:

I agree with jinkies word for word given that he himself hasn’t really expressed a preference one way or another for the program. Given that his experience with self harm was recent, priority for me would be closer to home, drs and positive outlets that are familiar and comfortable for him. If he really expressed a preference for the farther away program I’d revisit, but given that’s not the case then I like everything option B has more.

I don't think I'm expressing myself well - diesel mechanics is what he was initially looking for.  Both schools are state schools He threw in an application for this school for welding because our state school system was having a free application week for up to five schools.  And damn if I wasn't getting everything free I could.  We visited the welding school twice.  The first one was a not-good visit.  All he had was a group tour with a not-engaging tour guide.  I made him go back for a second visit to accepted students day - and that's when he got excited about the welding school.  

[mcppalmbeach]

Apr 3, 2023 11:22:13 GMT -5 whattheheck said:

Apr 3, 2023 11:13:43 GMT -5 smock said:

Why do you think he'd like A more? Reading the description, it sounds like B is a better fit all around, since you think he'd like B and he'd have a better campus life and support system. Even if A might be a better fit academically, it sounds like he'd have to put a lot of effort into building a network and connecting with people.

As for questions he can ask, is there a difference in the programs in terms of job placement rates, internship/experiential learning, student support services, school reputation? Is he excited about the idea of moving farther and starting fresh, or is he nervous about it?

I think he would like A better because that is what is he doing in his HS BOCES program (with a little bit of B thrown in) and loves it.  And it's what he's been leaning toward when talking about college.  Job placement rates are similar; internships might be a little easier with A - but there's no internships required; support services and school reputation are similar.

He's excited about going to college - most of the time.  And then he talks about staying home and doing BOCES Adult Ed in the same fields.  I have conflicting feelings on the distance.  Choice B - I worry he would come home too much and not really get into campus life.  Choice A - I worry he wouldn't find as much to do and stay in his room and not really get into campus life.

What kind of sense did you get on student body when you were there? Where are the kids coming from? What percentage of kids live at home versus on campus? I went to a small private college. There were plenty of kids from the area and within a shorter drive, but freshman were required to live on campus and it was very much a “campus life” experience. No one went home on the weekends. My friend’s boyfriend went to an applied technology school nearby and it was a totally different experience. Very little weekend campus engagement, dorms emptied out on the weekends. A school like that and he will be coming home all the time just for lack of options. So I’d definitely try to get a feel for that.

[sonrisa]

Apr 3, 2023 11:40:32 GMT -5 mcppalmbeach said:

Apr 3, 2023 11:22:13 GMT -5 whattheheck said:

I think he would like A better because that is what is he doing in his HS BOCES program (with a little bit of B thrown in) and loves it.  And it's what he's been leaning toward when talking about college.  Job placement rates are similar; internships might be a little easier with A - but there's no internships required; support services and school reputation are similar.

He's excited about going to college - most of the time.  And then he talks about staying home and doing BOCES Adult Ed in the same fields.  I have conflicting feelings on the distance.  Choice B - I worry he would come home too much and not really get into campus life.  Choice A - I worry he wouldn't find as much to do and stay in his room and not really get into campus life.

What kind of sense did you get on student body when you were there? Where are the kids coming from? What percentage of kids live at home versus on campus? I went to a small private college. There were plenty of kids from the area and within a shorter drive, but freshman were required to live on campus and it was very much a “campus life” experience. No one went home on the weekends. My friend’s boyfriend went to an applied technology school nearby and it was a totally different experience. Very little weekend campus engagement, dorms emptied out on the weekends. A school like that and he will be coming home all the time just for lack of options. So I’d definitely try to get a feel for that.

You said what I was thinking, but better

[whattheheck]

Apr 3, 2023 11:40:32 GMT -5 mcppalmbeach said:

Apr 3, 2023 11:22:13 GMT -5 whattheheck said:

What kind of sense did you get on student body when you were there? Where are the kids coming from? What percentage of kids live at home versus on campus? I went to a small private college. There were plenty of kids from the area and within a shorter drive, but freshman were required to live on campus and it was very much a “campus life” experience. No one went home on the weekends. My friend’s boyfriend went to an applied technology school nearby and it was a totally different experience. Very little weekend campus engagement, dorms emptied out on the weekends. A school like that and he will be coming home all the time just for lack of options. So I’d definitely try to get a feel for that.

More kids stay on campus on the weekends at College A than B but still quite a bit head home.  At College B most kids head up to the town nearby (the school even runs a shuttle bus for those without cars) on the weekends.  Ugh.  This is stressing me out and trying to keep that stress to myself is stressing me out

[jinkies]

I also think it's important to remember that, even though it feels very important right now, he does not have to make a lifelong commitment at age 18. He can change his mind. He can do welding, work for a few years, and decide it's not for him. He could go back to school for diesel mechanics, or join a union with training, or find a tangentially related job that he likes better. He could try one program, realize he hates it after 3 months, drop out and start over with the new program. He could potentially be marketable as a diesel mechanic with his high school tech experience plus the welding training. He could go pro with mountain biking LOL. He is a teenager and still has so many possibilities ahead of him.

I say this as someone who was miserable at my first choice school, and ultimately transferred. My H works in a trade, but he went to trade school for one thing, worked for 20 years in a different trade, and now is working in a different trade with people who have been welders, hvac techs, carpenters and mechanics (their job is not any of these directly, but all the skills are useful).

[whattheheck]

Apr 3, 2023 11:32:00 GMT -5 smock said:

Okay, so he's choosing between two different career paths, essentially. That's definitely trickier than choosing between two schools as an undecided major! Is it possible to try B for a semester and move to A if he realizes he'd prefer the other program?

Also, to ease your worries, my sister went to college 90 minutes from home and I chose a school in my hometown, and we both got involved in campus life (and we both also stayed in our rooms sometimes because that's how introverts roll). I never went home for the weekends even though it was a 20 min. bus ride away.

It might help to tell yourself that there will be hurdles to overcome with either option, but there's really not a wrong choice. If he hates either program or has a hard time fitting in, he can transfer. From the outside, B has a lot of pros, but he also has to think about what career path he wants to follow long term, while remembering that it's never too late to change paths. I got a freaking Ph.D. and tenure as a professor and then started a new career, so it can be done!

I suppose technically he could switch if he were truly unhappy.  But I think it would be difficult to do it after a semester and he would have to wait to the Fall.  He also has to stay "continuously enrolled" for the state's tuition-free program we are hoping to qualify for. 


But also the reason he/we were looking at the two-year AOS programs was that if at the end of the one year he didn't like it, he only needed to tough it out for a second year and he would come out with a skill and trade he could work at to take a break from school before going back for something else.  As opposed to a four-year school where at the end of one year you either need to tough it out for three more years or leave withing nothing but a boatload of debt.  He does NOT like academic school at all, not one bit.  These programs are really more hands-on like his BOCES program.  His college English will transfer, and he will have to take one year of math.  But no science, no history/western civ/philosophy.  Electives include things such as first aid and pipe fitting.

[whattheheck]

Apr 3, 2023 11:46:59 GMT -5 jinkies said:

I also think it's important to remember that, even though it feels very important right now, he does not have to make a lifelong commitment at age 18. He can change his mind. He can do welding, work for a few years, and decide it's not for him. He could go back to school for diesel mechanics, or join a union with training, or find a tangentially related job that he likes better. He could try one program, realize he hates it after 3 months, drop out and start over with the new program. He could potentially be marketable as a diesel mechanic with his high school tech experience plus the welding training. He could go pro with mountain biking LOL. He is a teenager and still has so many possibilities ahead of him.

I say this as someone who was miserable at my first choice school, and ultimately transferred. My H works in a trade, but he went to trade school for one thing, worked for 20 years in a different trade, and now is working in a different trade with people who have been welders, hvac techs, carpenters and mechanics (their job is not any of these directly, but all the skills are useful).

Unfortunately - money is a very real limiting factor here.  I am a single parent and my income falls into the free-tuition level (still have to do room and board and everything else).  If he drops out and takes time off - that tuition is converted to a loan and he cannot qualify for free tuition later b/c you have to remain "continuously enrolled."  So he could finish one program, work, and then go back for another program that we/he pays for.  Or he could do one program followed immediately by the other.  But he cannot take a break between the two and still qualify for free tuition.  Which I think is stupid, but my opinion on that is immaterial. 


It is tough to have to make these decisions as a teen.  I went to a traditional four-year school, remained undeclared for three of those years, and then picked my major right before starting my senior based on what degree I had enough classes in to graduate at the end of the year.  And then did zilch with my degree.  College is too expensive for that these days.

[georgeharrison]

I don't have any helpful advice, but B does seem like the best option to me. My kid, thankfully, just decided on the one at which felt the most comfortable, and it was the one that I liked best for him, too.

It's such a tough time for these kids. These are big decisions and they are still, well, kids. I hope he will decide on a school you both feel comfortable with.

[mcppalmbeach]

I see how it is complicated! What got him excited about the welding program t when he went back for the second visit?

Just another thought…have you discussed this with his psychologist/psychiatrist and asked them to discuss it with him? They might be able to flesh out some other things that you can’t see being so close to the situation? My son and I are going round and round with just his high school decisions and I keep saying can you maybe talk to your guidance counselor or your dad or your grandparents or basically anyone else but me lol. I feel like I’ve flushed out the pros and cons with him so much that I’m lost in the anxiety spiral with him and maybe a neutral third party will see something I /we don’t!

[mrsukyankee]

Could he ask to talk to some students from both schools to get an idea of life at the schools? Spend a weekend or a few days there? I did that, back in the day, and it was helpful.

[jennistarr1]

you might just see about possibility of telehealth appointments with doc, honestly with either choice

[jennistarr1]

and this is a trick you can do (total excercise)...but pick a school out of the hat and then depending on what it says, have him judge his reaction (like were you sad, disappointed, excited, relieved). This is a way of taking the logical part out of it and getting a gut feeling (because when making big decisions, you can think about this stuff so much you lose track of what your gut/emotional reaction is)

[stemmie]

The only thing I would add is that perhaps he should visit the scout troop with which he plans to volunteer.

When I worked with Troops in our local district, I was struck by the notion that "we all scout differently". DS's Troop was very inclusive and community-based with the expectation that all kids are worthy of Eagle so long as they do the work. Boys he knew from high school had very different experiences in different Troops. Some were really into the religious piece, some didn't do as much around the adventure bases or Eagle projects.

[wanderlustmom]

I love the idea to bring it up with his counselor or psychiatrist as other people suggested. Our son is also a senior and college was easy for him to pick since he had 3 top choices and only one admitted him, LOL! But for high school he struggled choosing between two magnet programs that both accepted him. We did this, we told him (since money was not a factor, both schools public and free. if money were, we would discuss that first since we have to consider money) you need to pick, this is your life not ours, both are great options, trust yourself. Maybe go back and see both again?

[Rainyday]

Apr 3, 2023 11:14:23 GMT -5 whattheheck said:

Apr 3, 2023 11:09:16 GMT -5 jinkies said:

If you think he would like either program, it sounds like option 2 is a no brainer.

I think you have to look at the options as a whole package-- a great academic program with fewer social outlets/ less access to preferred extracurriculars does not sound as appealing as a still-good program with a full social life.

They're not really academic programs - they are hands-on applied technology programs (diesel mechanics and welding).  So whichever he chooses - THAT is what he is going to be doing, at least initially, out of school.  Which is why I think it may be more important that a typical college degree where you can do multiple things with a degree.  That's what's tripping me up.

I would look into which town had better job prospects for after course completion. He will likely make connections in the industry while he is in school.
He may have an internship, mentoring or a job during school. It would be unfortunate to move away after connecting with people in his field?
Are either of the towns where he would want to stay for a while after school?

[whattheheck]

Apr 3, 2023 16:59:54 GMT -5 Rainyday said:

Apr 3, 2023 11:14:23 GMT -5 whattheheck said:

They're not really academic programs - they are hands-on applied technology programs (diesel mechanics and welding).  So whichever he chooses - THAT is what he is going to be doing, at least initially, out of school.  Which is why I think it may be more important that a typical college degree where you can do multiple things with a degree.  That's what's tripping me up.

I would look into which town had better job prospects for after course completion. He will likely make connections in the industry while he is in school.
He may have an internship, mentoring or a job during school. It would be unfortunate to move away after connecting with people in his field?
Are either of the towns where he would want to stay for a while after school?

I honestly think he would come back home and settle down in our area.  Mostly because these are college towns with not much else going for them so I don't see him really settling down in those towns.