@@ More schools move to 4 day week despite harm

[goldengirlz]

A lot of districts here also have 4.5 day weeks. I never really thought about why. (Aftercare just starts earlier. For older kids, it allows them to do earlier activities.)

A big issue in my town is old people voting against school funding. I think livinitup is spot on about voters wanting to push costs onto parents rather than raise taxes. Sometimes it seems like we vote in every tax increase except schools.

[ckay]

May 9, 2023 22:25:22 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

A lot of districts here also have 4.5 day weeks. I never really thought about why. (Aftercare just starts earlier. For older kids, it allows them to do earlier activities.)

A big issue in my town is old people voting against school funding. I think livinitup is spot on about voters wanting to push costs onto parents rather than raise taxes. Sometimes it seems like we vote in every tax increase except schools.

I don’t understand people who vote against school funding! H and I are childfree but recognize the importance of quality education for the future of our country. Anytime a referendum for more school funding is on the ballot we happily vote yes. And honestly, it usually amounts to like, an extra $4 a month in taxes lol. It’s not like we’re paying thousands a month.

Four day school weeks sounds like a disaster and my gosh when we will start prioritizing education in this country?!

[penguingrrl]

May 9, 2023 22:25:22 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

A lot of districts here also have 4.5 day weeks. I never really thought about why. (Aftercare just starts earlier. For older kids, it allows them to do earlier activities.)

A big issue in my town is old people voting against school funding. I think livinitup is spot on about voters wanting to push costs onto parents rather than raise taxes. Sometimes it seems like we vote in every tax increase except schools.

Is aftercare available as a sort of a la carte option in your district? Because for a while I purposely took a job that was 9-2 because it avoided the cost of aftercare, but in our district you can’t sign up for only days you need. You’re either signed up for aftercare or not (and there’s a huge waitlist to get on it because they can’t find enough staff to run it). And it’s hundreds a month per child.

[Jalapeñomel]

May 10, 2023 7:48:50 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

May 9, 2023 22:25:22 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

A lot of districts here also have 4.5 day weeks. I never really thought about why. (Aftercare just starts earlier. For older kids, it allows them to do earlier activities.)

A big issue in my town is old people voting against school funding. I think livinitup is spot on about voters wanting to push costs onto parents rather than raise taxes. Sometimes it seems like we vote in every tax increase except schools.

Is aftercare available as a sort of a la carte option in your district? Because for a while I purposely took a job that was 9-2 because it avoided the cost of aftercare, but in our district you can’t sign up for only days you need. You’re either signed up for aftercare or not (and there’s a huge waitlist to get on it because they can’t find enough staff to run it). And it’s hundreds a month per child.

This is how our area operates too. We need aftercare for the last week of school (all half days) and the months I do the musical. We have to pay for the whole year, all week in order to get this care. It’s about $350 a month so not inconsequential.

[penguingrrl]

May 10, 2023 8:36:10 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

May 10, 2023 7:48:50 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Is aftercare available as a sort of a la carte option in your district? Because for a while I purposely took a job that was 9-2 because it avoided the cost of aftercare, but in our district you can’t sign up for only days you need. You’re either signed up for aftercare or not (and there’s a huge waitlist to get on it because they can’t find enough staff to run it). And it’s hundreds a month per child.

This is how our area operates too. We need aftercare for the last week of school (all half days) and the months I do the musical. We have to pay for the whole year, all week in order to get this care. It’s about $350 a month so not inconsequential.

Ugh, that stinks! There has to be a better option out there for working families! Aftercare also ends here after 4th grade because 5th is housed in our middle school. My current 4th grader is not mature enough to be home alone all afternoon and I don’t think 3 months will change that!

[goldengirlz]

May 10, 2023 7:48:50 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

May 9, 2023 22:25:22 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

A lot of districts here also have 4.5 day weeks. I never really thought about why. (Aftercare just starts earlier. For older kids, it allows them to do earlier activities.)

A big issue in my town is old people voting against school funding. I think livinitup is spot on about voters wanting to push costs onto parents rather than raise taxes. Sometimes it seems like we vote in every tax increase except schools.

Is aftercare available as a sort of a la carte option in your district? Because for a while I purposely took a job that was 9-2 because it avoided the cost of aftercare, but in our district you can’t sign up for only days you need. You’re either signed up for aftercare or not (and there’s a huge waitlist to get on it because they can’t find enough staff to run it). And it’s hundreds a month per child.

It’s exactly the same here.

[penguingrrl]

May 10, 2023 8:39:45 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

May 10, 2023 7:48:50 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Is aftercare available as a sort of a la carte option in your district? Because for a while I purposely took a job that was 9-2 because it avoided the cost of aftercare, but in our district you can’t sign up for only days you need. You’re either signed up for aftercare or not (and there’s a huge waitlist to get on it because they can’t find enough staff to run it). And it’s hundreds a month per child.

It’s exactly the same here.

They really do make it impossible for families then. Because half days every week or other week have got to be preventing some folks from working. And often the jobs that work around school are not paid well enough to cover full time aftercare IME.

[goldengirlz]

May 10, 2023 8:41:12 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

May 10, 2023 8:39:45 GMT -5 goldengirlz said:

It’s exactly the same here.

They really do make it impossible for families then. Because half days every week or other week have got to be preventing some folks from working. And often the jobs that work around school are not paid well enough to cover full time aftercare IME.

California excels at a lot of things, but K-12 education is not one of them. We did have the largest increase in per-pupil spending of any state of the past decade (allowing us to finally pull ahead of Southern states so we’re not at the very bottom anymore.) But we have a lot of work to do.

[icedcoffee]

Aftercare at our school you can't do drop in but you can choose between 1 and 5 days a week and before and/or after. We do aftercare 5 days a week. It's not cheap (going up to $575 a month next year) though. From what I can tell there's plenty of space though. I think since COVID a lot of people just have their kids come home while they work because my neighborhood is mostly dual working families, but I cannot do that. My kid asks for too much attention. I'm actually always surprised when I pick him up and there's just not that many kids there, but he enjoys it and has made some good older friends so whatever! I'm obviously very fortunate that I can just throw the money at this problem though.

I'm hoping in a few years we can do just a few days a week of aftercare.

[steamboat185]

Many of the districts in the mountains are 4 day weeks and the parents I’ve talked to love the system and we’ve lost several teachers to these districts in the last 2 years. The teachers like that they get an extra day off per week (especially if they like to be outside). The older kids can work at the ski areas on Fridays and the younger kids can ski. The rec centers offer extra programs and the school offers in school care options.

Our city school has moved away from half days and does several Fridays off throughout the year and it is awesome. We get to have more long weekend adventures and can plan appointments for those days. Even when we were both working full time in the office we found the full days off easier than half days or late starts. I’d love to have them go 4 days a week. It’ll be easier than the 7:45-2:45 schedule we are moving to next year.

[Jalapeñomel]

As a teacher, yes, I'd love to have every Friday off. But I know that students don't do work over the weekends already, and having a little every day is better than large chunks for a couple of days (or worse every other day). Many teachers will tell you that retention is at an all time low, between the pandemic, technology, etc, We also know that these types of changes disproportionally affect communities of color and lower incomes.

[CrazyLucky]

My kids are old enough now that this wouldn't bother me, but when they were younger, what a pain it would have been! I wonder if there is an in between, like instead of an extra 70 minutes per day, do an extra 35 minutes per day and have off every other Friday.
I'm all for year round school though. When we lived in NC, one of the districts near us (Wake County) had it, and I never met anyone who didn't like it. Teachers, kids, parents, all loved it. I would love to not be restricted to summer for family vacations. My family camps a lot too, and I'd love to go for a week in November for example.

[macmars45]

Year round school would be great CrazyLucky. Less learning loss is a huge benefit.

A longer school day would be harder on the neurodivergent kids. My autistic DS(7) is already exhausted from masking from 8:45am-3:30pm on school days. I'd love for him to get to try after school activities (lego club especially) but he needs to get home asap after school for some quiet chill time. I'm sure he's not the only one.

[wanderingback]

What’s the research on year round school?
Is it too expensive is that why districts are reluctant?

My mom was a teacher and did a short time at a year round school and loved it. Seems like a win win for everyone with students losing less knowledge, teachers and students with more regular breaks and more consistency to not have to struggle to find childcare during long summer breaks.

[mpm]

May 10, 2023 13:15:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

What’s the research on year round school?
Is it too expensive is that why districts are reluctant?

My mom was a teacher and did a short time at a year round school and loved it. Seems like a win win for everyone with students losing less knowledge, teachers and students with more regular breaks and more consistency to not have to struggle to find childcare during long summer breaks.

Where I grew up in the Midwest, many teachers were against it because they worked summer jobs that were more lucrative than teaching. 😥

As a parent, I would LOVE year-round school. Minimize summer learning loss, keep a consistent schedule, no childcare headaches? Yes please!

[penguingrrl]

May 10, 2023 13:15:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

What’s the research on year round school?
Is it too expensive is that why districts are reluctant?

My mom was a teacher and did a short time at a year round school and loved it. Seems like a win win for everyone with students losing less knowledge, teachers and students with more regular breaks and more consistency to not have to struggle to find childcare during long summer breaks.

I believe there are a multitude of concerns, most of which are about an economy relying on cheap labor, not about what’s best for families or students.

I know in my part of NJ few schools start before Labor Day because shore businesses count on HS aged workers, especially because they lose a lot of college students earlier than that and still need to operate (and the college workers pick up the daytime hours from Memorial Day until the end of June when schools let out). Especially now because NJ is allowed to pay workers who are under 18 and have been working for the company for fewer than 90 days much lower wages than other workers (which is abhorrent).

I also think as a society we’ve put a lot of pressure on summer as “fun” time and a lot of people don’t want to give that up. As someone with two neurodivergent kids who don’t handle the change in routine well, I would love to go to a balanced schedule with year round school and nicer breaks, especially around the holidays (we get exactly one week in December/January and could definitely use a few extra days to recover our sleep after New Years).

[fortnightlily]

Add me to the list of people who would prefer year-round school with more built-in breaks. Reduce learning loss, childcare issues, and -- first-world problem, perhaps -- but it'd be nice to have more flexibility for scheduling travel, visiting out-of-state family, etc.

There are probably areas that would have to spend a lot of money to retrofit their school buildings with air conditioning, though.

[fancynewbeesly]

I think to have year round school the buildings would need to be air conditioned. Many of them locally (in NJ) aren’t. Or they are just starting to retrofit them. DDs school definitely isn’t air conditioned. The town I teach in they are starting to put them in all the schools.

Also we live in a high summer tourist area and most of the employees unfortunately are hs students. So that is the big reason I would think our area would push back against it. As a teacher I would love it. Even selfishly to not be stuck to the highest priced time to travel.

[neverfstop]

Couldn't they work the high schools so that the "Summer term" or quarter or semester or whatever they call that grading period would allow some flexibility for kids to work part-time if they are 15+?

I think the basic answer to WHY can't we have summer school is capitalism....

[mpm]

May 10, 2023 14:09:08 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Couldn't they work the high schools so that the "Summer term" or quarter or semester or whatever they call that grading period would allow some flexibility for kids to work part-time if they are 15+?

I think the basic answer to WHY can't we have summer school is capitalism....

High school is also an animal all of its own. I only took two classes at my high school and then did dual enrollment at the local college for the rest of my classes. No clue if that’s even still a thing.

[yellow23]

May 10, 2023 13:15:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

What’s the research on year round school?
Is it too expensive is that why districts are reluctant?

My mom was a teacher and did a short time at a year round school and loved it. Seems like a win win for everyone with students losing less knowledge, teachers and students with more regular breaks and more consistency to not have to struggle to find childcare during long summer breaks.

Two of my cousins work in year round schools. The breaks rotate so the school is always open (except a few weeks in the summer when everyone is off) with 2/3 of the kids/teachers there at a time. The district only does it for elementary because it interferes with sports once they hit middle school. They would either only have 2/3 of the players at a time or the kids on the team would never be able to have a true break because they would have to be available for daily practices/games during the season. If the whole school closed for 3 weeks, they would have to find other schools with the same schedule to compete against in sports.

With only elementary being year round, many parents never have all their kids on break at the same time (except those few weeks in July). My aunts and uncles hated this when my cousins were in school in this same district. Teachers also have a problem when their kids are in a different level of school with completely different breaks. My cousins husband teaches high school in the same district, but his kids are in elementary so he has to work during most of their school breaks.

I love the idea of year round school, but I can see how it would be difficult for sports teams, bands, drama, etc. to have three week breaks several times a year. The way to fix that is have middle and high schools on a typical schedule, but I really wouldn’t want my younger kids to be on a different break schedule than my oldest.

I’ve decided that I don’t think there is a perfect way to schedule schools.

[mpm]

May 10, 2023 14:31:51 GMT -5 yellow23 said:

May 10, 2023 13:15:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

What’s the research on year round school?
Is it too expensive is that why districts are reluctant?

My mom was a teacher and did a short time at a year round school and loved it. Seems like a win win for everyone with students losing less knowledge, teachers and students with more regular breaks and more consistency to not have to struggle to find childcare during long summer breaks.

Two of my cousins work in year round schools. The breaks rotate so the school is always open (except a few weeks in the summer when everyone is off) with 2/3 of the kids/teachers there at a time. The district only does it for elementary because it interferes with sports once they hit middle school. They would either only have 2/3 of the players at a time or the kids on the team would never be able to have a true break because they would have to be available for daily practices/games during the season. If the whole school closed for 3 weeks, they would have to find other schools with the same schedule to compete against in sports.

With only elementary being year round, many parents never have all their kids on break at the same time (except those few weeks in July). My aunts and uncles hated this when my cousins were in school in this same district. Teachers also have a problem when their kids are in a different level of school with completely different breaks. My cousins husband teaches high school in the same district, but his kids are in elementary so he has to work during most of their school breaks.

I love the idea of year round school, but I can see how it would be difficult for sports teams, bands, drama, etc. to have three week breaks several times a year. The way to fix that is have middle and high schools on a typical schedule, but I really wouldn’t want my younger kids to be on a different break schedule than my oldest.

I’ve decided that I don’t think there is a perfect way to schedule schools.

Un-American opinion: There’s no reason sports need to be connected to schools. Problem solved. Year-round school for everyone.

[yellow23]

May 10, 2023 14:37:24 GMT -5 mpm said:

Un-American opinion: There’s no reason sports need to be connected to schools. Problem solved. Year-round school for everyone.

My kids have never made a school team and I don’t think the ever will (huge schools, most kids don’t make the team), but I’m not against school sports. It’s mostly free and not everyone can spend thousands a year on private teams.

[Deleted]

May 10, 2023 14:37:24 GMT -5 mpm said:

May 10, 2023 14:31:51 GMT -5 yellow23 said:

Two of my cousins work in year round schools. The breaks rotate so the school is always open (except a few weeks in the summer when everyone is off) with 2/3 of the kids/teachers there at a time. The district only does it for elementary because it interferes with sports once they hit middle school. They would either only have 2/3 of the players at a time or the kids on the team would never be able to have a true break because they would have to be available for daily practices/games during the season. If the whole school closed for 3 weeks, they would have to find other schools with the same schedule to compete against in sports.

With only elementary being year round, many parents never have all their kids on break at the same time (except those few weeks in July). My aunts and uncles hated this when my cousins were in school in this same district. Teachers also have a problem when their kids are in a different level of school with completely different breaks. My cousins husband teaches high school in the same district, but his kids are in elementary so he has to work during most of their school breaks.

I love the idea of year round school, but I can see how it would be difficult for sports teams, bands, drama, etc. to have three week breaks several times a year. The way to fix that is have middle and high schools on a typical schedule, but I really wouldn’t want my younger kids to be on a different break schedule than my oldest.

I’ve decided that I don’t think there is a perfect way to schedule schools.

Un-American opinion: There’s no reason sports need to be connected to schools. Problem solved. Year-round school for everyone.

Devil’s advocate: Having sports in schools is the only way to make it accessible and free to some demographics who wouldn’t otherwise be able to participate in organized sports. Yes, I realize the answer to find other ways to make sports accessible, but this is the have we have currently been dealt.

[neverfstop]

Well, if the whole state went to the same approximate schedule, that would help with sports and all the kids/teachers being on the same schedule.
If we just went shorter days, elementary starts before high school, affordable before/after care, and longer breaks throughout the year (fall break, Tgiving, Xmas, spring break, easter break, etc.) we could shorten the summer to 4-6 weeks...

[Jalapeñomel]

May 10, 2023 13:15:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

What’s the research on year round school?
Is it too expensive is that why districts are reluctant?

My mom was a teacher and did a short time at a year round school and loved it. Seems like a win win for everyone with students losing less knowledge, teachers and students with more regular breaks and more consistency to not have to struggle to find childcare during long summer breaks.

Also changing anything in schools from the “norm” is HARD. So much fucking complaining from parents, teachers admin.

I don’t think sports should be eliminated, but it shouldn’t be the decision making for effective teaching and learning practices.

[sugarbear1]

School sports allows free access to all students. I understand this is still problematic in many ways but pay-to-play is not one of them. I can't see this ever changing.

And, after care was cost prohibitive in my family (2 school employees). It was cheaper per month to apply for financial aid and send our children to private schools.

[penguingrrl]

Am I alone in living in a pay-to-play district? Not at the HS level (which is a separate district from K-8), but our middle school sports are $200/season, as are all extracurricular activities now. So it’s not leveling the playing field, especially since the only way to make a HS team is to have had a lot of private coaching prior to HS…

[wanderingback]

May 10, 2023 14:31:51 GMT -5 yellow23 said:

May 10, 2023 13:15:43 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

What’s the research on year round school?
Is it too expensive is that why districts are reluctant?

My mom was a teacher and did a short time at a year round school and loved it. Seems like a win win for everyone with students losing less knowledge, teachers and students with more regular breaks and more consistency to not have to struggle to find childcare during long summer breaks.

Two of my cousins work in year round schools. The breaks rotate so the school is always open (except a few weeks in the summer when everyone is off) with 2/3 of the kids/teachers there at a time. The district only does it for elementary because it interferes with sports once they hit middle school. They would either only have 2/3 of the players at a time or the kids on the team would never be able to have a true break because they would have to be available for daily practices/games during the season. If the whole school closed for 3 weeks, they would have to find other schools with the same schedule to compete against in sports.

With only elementary being year round, many parents never have all their kids on break at the same time (except those few weeks in July). My aunts and uncles hated this when my cousins were in school in this same district. Teachers also have a problem when their kids are in a different level of school with completely different breaks. My cousins husband teaches high school in the same district, but his kids are in elementary so he has to work during most of their school breaks.

I love the idea of year round school, but I can see how it would be difficult for sports teams, bands, drama, etc. to have three week breaks several times a year. The way to fix that is have middle and high schools on a typical schedule, but I really wouldn’t want my younger kids to be on a different break schedule than my oldest.

I’ve decided that I don’t think there is a perfect way to schedule schools.

That’s definitely an excuse. Sports could definitely continue, might just look a little different. I played 3 varsity sports in high school. In the fall we started practice before school started. In the spring we would have practice during spring break. So yeah sports could be accommodated. The breaks during the year aren’t months long.

In general people just don’t like change or to reimagine things.

But really I was just wondering what specific research says about year round school.

[yellow23]

May 10, 2023 15:40:56 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Am I alone in living in a pay-to-play district? Not at the HS level (which is a separate district from K-8), but our middle school sports are $200/season, as are all extracurricular activities now. So it’s not leveling the playing field, especially since the only way to make a HS team is to have had a lot of private coaching prior to HS…

I’ve never heard of paying for school activities, the schools I went to as a kid and the schools my kids go to all have free activities. The only thing we ever pay for are field trips and anyone that qualifies for free/reduced lunch automatically has theirs paid for and anyone else can contact the principal for help paying.

The advantage to kids that have had private coaching since preschool is an issue where we live now. Even kids that have spent years on travel teams don’t make school teams because it’s so competitive and schools are large. However, I grew up in a very rural area and no one had private coaches and sports were free so it was a pretty level playing field. A lot of kids that otherwise wouldn’t have been able to afford college (I lived in an area with a lot of poverty) got sports scholarships to junior colleges or small 4 year colleges. Having access to school sports can really help some kids.