Federal work questions

[1yeartogo]

If you work for the federal government do you get a cost of living increase in addition to the step process annually or is that separate. I am trying to understand how your wage could grow over time.

Thanks!

[curbsideprophet]

There is often a coat of living increase every year, although not always. You can find the GS pay scales here if you want to compare multiple years.

www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/

Step increases do not happen every year for the higher steps.

www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/pay-administration/fact-sheets/within-grade-increases/

[minzy]

You can get a cost of living adjustment, a promotion, and/or time in grade which would bump it up. Your actual salary depends on locality too. Some people in my office are maxed and I think they also get a periodic bonus. There are a few sites where you can plug in a particular person and see their salary (usually there is a lag of a year or so).

Where ya at rubytue?

[1yeartogo]

Thanks! Is there any way to negotiate once you have been graded? The base is lower than my current role, but I am interested.

[minzy]

May 9, 2023 16:30:45 GMT -5 1yeartogo said:

Thanks! Is there any way to negotiate once you have been graded? The base is lower than my current role, but I am interested.

I may not be the best person to answer this but usually the particular title has a GS range, like GS-11 to GS-12. In my limited experience, you’d have better luck arguing for a higher step within the grade than a different grade. So if they say GS-11, step 1, you could try to come in at a GS-11, step 3, by highlighting your experience or maybe referencing your prior salary, but you’re probably not going to get too far by asking to be a GS-14 if the job caps at a GS-12.

Congrats on the offer!

[curbsideprophet]

May 9, 2023 16:43:18 GMT -5 minzy said:

May 9, 2023 16:30:45 GMT -5 1yeartogo said:

Thanks! Is there any way to negotiate once you have been graded? The base is lower than my current role, but I am interested.

I may not be the best person to answer this but usually the particular title has a GS range, like GS-11 to GS-12. In my limited experience, you’d have better luck arguing for a higher step within the grade than a different grade. So if they say GS-11, step 1, you could try to come in at a GS-11, step 3, by highlighting your experience or maybe referencing your prior salary, but you’re probably not going to get too far by asking to be a GS-14 if the job caps at a GS-12.

Congrats on the offer!

1yeartogo, You may be able to negotiate for the higher end of the range, but I definitely don't think you could ask for a GS level above the listed range. I agree it could be possible to negotiate which step you start at within the grade.

[sju]

My understanding is that you can negotiate steps AND leave so if you have more than 15 years of experience related to the position you applied for, I would ask for the 8 hours. 6 hours are good too. ETA: I know two people who got 8 hours. One is in a specialized area so maybe he got it sort of like a hiring bonus. 

[rubytue]

May 9, 2023 16:21:09 GMT -5 minzy said:

You can get a cost of living adjustment, a promotion, and/or time in grade which would bump it up. Your actual salary depends on locality too. Some people in my office are maxed and I think they also get a periodic bonus. There are a few sites where you can plug in a particular person and see their salary (usually there is a lag of a year or so).

Where ya at rubytue?

At a bunch of all day/all week meetings two time zones off 🤣

But yes, often they will offer GSXX step 1. You can often negotiate steps up to a GSXX step 10. Trying to negotiate to GSXX+1, while not impossible, requires the job to have been posted as, say GS 9-12. Then if they offer you an 11 you may be able to get it bumped to a 12. But, it’s a pain and you really have to know all the ins and outs to explain why you are above a GS11, by doing GS11 work for 2+ years. But, see, for this you have to know what they consider GS11 work to show why you have been doing it for 2 years. And since you’ve never done “GS” work, it gets complicated and really unlikely. Your best bet is to get them to meet your current salary in steps. So look at the chart? Find the GS grade they offers (down the left side). Then mover across that row until you hit your current salary. IME, people can get that.

But, the downside to that is it reduces your annual raises. You get a step per year in steps 1-3, then every two years steps 4-6, then every 3 years steps 7-10. So, to go from 1 to 10 just on time is 18 years.

But… you do get the annual raise in January (which is technically not a COLA, but in practice it’s a COLA). And you get get within grade increases (WiGIs - pronounced wiggy) for outstanding performance. And, if you are career laddered, then you can get a grade increase as quick as every year. But anyways, if you negotiate yourself to a step 7 at the top of your career ladder, you will get nothing but 1-3% in January for 3 years.

FWIW, my initial offer, in 2001, was a GS9. I managed to get that to a GS11. Honestly, I’ve never heard of anyone else doing this, but I’m proof it can be done. 12 to 13 came in 2002 and 2003. And then I sat until 2016.

IMHO, we start low but can go up quickly, until you sit and sit and sit.

[rubytue]

May 9, 2023 20:46:56 GMT -5 sju said:

My understanding is that you can negotiate steps AND leave so if you have more than 15 years of experience related to the position you applied for, I would ask for the 8 hours. 6 hours are good too. ETA: I know two people who got 8 hours. One is in a specialized area so maybe he got it sort of like a hiring bonus. 

Yes!! Especially mid career people. Don’t take 4 hours.

[pumpkin]

I also think some of this is agency dependent. My agency might negotiate steps, but never leave or GS level.

And in my agency years 1-5 you earn 4hrs of leave per pay period, 6-14 years it’s 6hrs/pp, and at 15 years it’s automatically 8hrs/pp.

[rubytue]

May 9, 2023 21:32:54 GMT -5 pumpkin said:

I also think some of this is agency dependent. My agency might negotiate steps, but never leave or GS level.

And in my agency years 1-5 you earn 4hrs of leave per pay period, 6-14 years it’s 6hrs/pp, and at 15 years it’s automatically 8hrs/pp.

Point. One reason I mentioned it was 22 years when I negotiated a grade. Things change. And now, I know my agency is losing people because they won’t negotiate steps. I know of two hood candidates that turned us down for it.

I’m surprised they won’t negotiate leave though. How the heck do they get any mid career people willing to step back to 2 weeks a year? Interesting…

Edit to add - yes, different agencies do different things. But, rules are the rules. So it could be a “won’t” vs a “can’t”. Just to clarify how people report different things. Totally admit I’ve only been at two fed places. But I have friends and many others and we talk 😁 It’s alway interesting discussions. Like one friend who insists that her independent agency doesn’t have to follow OPM. And other whose independent agency lives and dies by OPM.

[ssmjlm]

May 9, 2023 16:30:45 GMT -5 1yeartogo said:

Thanks! Is there any way to negotiate once you have been graded? The base is lower than my current role, but I am interested.

I would need more information, is the whole grade/step range below your base or just the step 1? We can bring industry personnel in at a higher step, but after a certain step, we have to get higher approvals and they rarely go through.

[wawa]

while you're all here....hope you don't mind if i piggyback 1yeartogo

How does one interpret this (and statements like it)
For the GS-15:You qualify for this grade level if you have at least one year of specialized experience, equal or equivalent to the GS-14 grade level, which included:
[and then specific technical bullet points]

like, I'm not a fed, so I have no idea what it means to be a GS-14 level. How do you know how MUCH experience they're looking for at a given level? (as opposed to what kind)

[ssmjlm]

May 10, 2023 10:28:14 GMT -5 wawa said:

while you're all here....hope you don't mind if i piggyback 1yeartogo

How does one interpret this (and statements like it)
For the GS-15:You qualify for this grade level if you have at least one year of specialized experience, equal or equivalent to the GS-14 grade level, which included:
[and then specific technical bullet points]

like, I'm not a fed, so I have no idea what it means to be a GS-14 level. How do you know how MUCH experience they're looking for at a given level? (as opposed to what kind)

GS-14 is typically at good decade plus of experience plus supervisory. GS-15 is typically one of the most senior people in an organization/division.  (Well DC grades tend to be inflated.)

I have only had Industry people come into the Government at a GS-14 because they had prior military experience and were senior enlisted or officers of a certain rank when they retired.

[1yeartogo]

That you everyone. It sounds like they may be able to change the step (not grade) but have to go through an internal process whereby I provide “proof” And there is no guarantee it will be approved. In the meantime if I want this considered I have to accept at the lower salary since I’m only allowed 3 days to accept.

I was told leave can’t be negotiated so even though I’m mid career it would only be 2 weeks.

They are making this a difficult decision

[rubytue]

May 10, 2023 12:22:04 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

May 10, 2023 10:28:14 GMT -5 wawa said:

while you're all here....hope you don't mind if i piggyback 1yeartogo

How does one interpret this (and statements like it)
For the GS-15:You qualify for this grade level if you have at least one year of specialized experience, equal or equivalent to the GS-14 grade level, which included:
[and then specific technical bullet points]

like, I'm not a fed, so I have no idea what it means to be a GS-14 level. How do you know how MUCH experience they're looking for at a given level? (as opposed to what kind)

GS-14 is typically at good decade plus of experience plus supervisory. GS-15 is typically one of the most senior people in an organization/division.  (Well DC grades tend to be inflated.)

I have only had Industry people come into the Government at a GS-14 because they had prior military experience and were senior enlisted or officers of a certain rank when they retired.

Maybe it’s the DC grade inflation, but for us, a 14 is something like a recognized expert outside your agency. There is some bs about internationally recognized, but that’s an easy box to check for us because one of our major external stakeholders has international in their name. But, a technical 14 is someone who publishes and presents at conferences and is the lead agency person at stakeholder meetings. Really though, we have 12s and 13s doing that, because small agency. But, that’s some of the key things assessed for grading at 14.

[minzy]

I think leave is standard, so 4hr/pp for 0-3 years, 6hrs/pp for 3-15 years, 8hrs/pp for 15+. One of my colleagues coming out a full military career is at 4hr/pp, which stinks. On the plus side, we’re about to come out of the drought of federal holidays (the longest span without one is Presidents’ Day to Memorial Day).

Also 14 and 15s can be professionals with advanced degrees (i.e., JDs).

[lessel]

May 10, 2023 15:57:57 GMT -5 1yeartogo said:

That you everyone. It sounds like they may be able to change the step (not grade) but have to go through an internal process whereby I provide “proof” And there is no guarantee it will be approved. In the meantime if I want this considered I have to accept at the lower salary since I’m only allowed 3 days to accept.

I was told leave can’t be negotiated so even though I’m mid career it would only be 2 weeks.

They are making this a difficult decision

Was this told to you by the hiring program or HR at the agency? It might be an issue of not asking the correct person... I would go to HR.