@ school bus meltdown

[bee20]

sent, quesyrah,
The district I grew up in was the same. My "home" school was zoned to all the apartments, I tested into a gifted program and was bussed to the school 1.5 miles away as the crow flies, but the ritzy neighborhood didn't allow roads between the two areas so it was a 6 mile drive out to the highway and back in. Fundraisers meant we had a music program with instruments and put on a musical every year. My sibling in my home school just had one annual concert with each grade teacher teaching the kids a song. Same for PE (Nice gym vs. "cafetorium"), and the building in general (Brand new versus 20 years old). It's the same district, but it's a huge difference.

[quesyrah]

Aug 14, 2023 12:25:08 GMT -5 bee20 said:

sent, quesyrah,
The district I grew up in was the same. My "home" school was zoned to all the apartments, I tested into a gifted program and was bussed to the school 1.5 miles away as the crow flies, but the ritzy neighborhood didn't allow roads between the two areas so it was a 6 mile drive out to the highway and back in. Fundraisers meant we had a music program with instruments and put on a musical every year. My sibling in my home school just had one annual concert with each grade teacher teaching the kids a song. Same for PE (Nice gym vs. "cafetorium"), and the building in general (Brand new versus 20 years old). It's the same district, but it's a huge difference.

My child tested into GATE (gifted and talented) and when I asked the school what that meant in terms of opportunities, etc….they said nothing they don’t actually have funding for classes. It’s just a designation that gets put in his file.

Want to know what the school down the road has? Yep, a pull out program with extracurricular activities and field trips.

[sent]

I've gathered now from years of reading these boards that schools function very very differently across states. This district has almost 100K students. I just looked up the districts in NJ and the largest one is "only" just under 40K students. I'm not aware of any suburban schools here where parents can choose to send their kids to an elementary or middle that their child is not districted to attend. The schools are all basically at the same level within the same district. 

The bus driver crisis can always be solved with paying more and respecting and supporting drivers. But our country hates children and especially poor ones so sadly here we are.

[dcn]

Louisville has a long history re: bussing, going back to a Supreme Court ruling in 1975. Prior to that, county schools had 90% white kids. The city and county schools merged and they bussed kids to different schools to integrate them. Yes, Brown was years earlier but Louisville avoided implementing it until then.

Prior to 2006, kids were being bussed even further. A Supreme Court ruling changed the system again, so that parents can apply to a school in their “cluster”, but demographics are considered. One of the highest ranked high schools is urban, right downtown. Kids apply from all over the district to get a spot. I know where I grew up in western Ny the city schools aren’t sought after.

We’ve been in 4 school districts in 4 states around the country in the past 6 years, and haven’t come across one like it. Usually if there’s a choice system the family has to provide transportation.

[vamoose]

I’m surprised that they cancelled school instead of keeping schools open and having parents provide transportation as possible (and excusing absences for those that can’t on such short notice) until they sort out this mess. I live somewhere with no bussing, so maybe there are dynamics at play that I don’t understand, but I know how important in person school was for many kids for food and having a safe place to be during the day.

[wawa]

what a mess.  Like, on so many levels. I feel like I have a lot of backseat driver thoughts here on how this could have been avoided, but as this thread is demonstrating there are a lot of regional/state differences in how schools are operated, so it's really hard for me to actually say how they OUGHT to have done this when I don't know enough about the reality of the situation. 

I can say that this "pick a school, any school" method feels like a fucking mess and ditto pixy0stix on the sentiment on school choice in general.

[curlymon]

Louisville is an extremely segregated city. Which means if you only bus to neighborhood schools, the schools will be very segregated. The school choice amongst the clusters is to ensure grater integration.

[wawa]

Aug 14, 2023 15:18:26 GMT -5 curlymon said:

Louisville is an extremely segregated city. Which means if you only bus to neighborhood schools, the schools will be very segregated. The school choice amongst the clusters is to ensure grater integration.

does it work?  (legit question, I'm curious what the results are if you're familiar)
From a quick glance it looks like not super well but potentially better than nothing?  the total high school student stats in the system are 37% black, 39% white, 14% hispanic and 10% other.  So if we were getting rid of the geographic segregation with this system we'd expect individual schools to at least kinda resemble that.  

They don't particularly.
Black percentages range from 19% to 73%, white is anywhere from 6% to 67%, hispanic is 3% to31%  If we say that plus or minus 10% of the population is a reasonable range (so like anything above 27% or less than 47% black student population for example) then only 8 out of 21 high schools resemble the city-wide black population. White and hispanic are similarly all over the place. (Other is fascinating...what's the story with Dupont Manual?  is that where all the asian students go?  it's got 24% other and only 19% black) data is here: assessment.jefferson.kyschools.us/PublicDatasets/PublicResources.aspx?id=511427

Now...this may be significantly better than it would be otherwise, I'm not getting paid for this so I'm not about to pull up the census tract data and overlay it to compare as much as I may want to because i'm a nerd. Do you know if that is the case?


Our school catchment maps look like jerrymandered election districts in part because of this issue.  It's not just "everybody goes to the closest school".  Everybody goes to their assigned school with very limited exceptions, but they draw the maps with one of the (many, competing) factors considered being balancing racial factors, FARMs and ESOL numbers.  It's not perfect, but it kinda works.  Except when they don't touch the maps in a comprehensive way for over a decade and everybody gets very comfy with the status quo and then they do a bunch of wholesale changes and the "good school" people with the high test scores who think they're better than my corner of the county LOSE THEIR DAMN MINDS.  

[kiminky]

Aug 14, 2023 13:07:31 GMT -5 vamoose said:

I’m surprised that they cancelled school instead of keeping schools open and having parents provide transportation as possible (and excusing absences for those that can’t on such short notice) until they sort out this mess. I live somewhere with no bussing, so maybe there are dynamics at play that I don’t understand, but I know how important in person school was for many kids for food and having a safe place to be during the day.

The amount of students on buses vs having them transported and keeping schools open would be a huge equity issue.

[pixy0stix]

Aug 14, 2023 15:18:26 GMT -5 curlymon said:

Louisville is an extremely segregated city. Which means if you only bus to neighborhood schools, the schools will be very segregated. The school choice amongst the clusters is to ensure grater integration.

As of 2019, bussing had stopped working as a tactic - www.nytimes.com/2019/07/28/us/busing-louisville-student-segregation.html

[formerlyak]

Aug 14, 2023 12:25:08 GMT -5 bee20 said:

sent, quesyrah,
The district I grew up in was the same. My "home" school was zoned to all the apartments, I tested into a gifted program and was bussed to the school 1.5 miles away as the crow flies, but the ritzy neighborhood didn't allow roads between the two areas so it was a 6 mile drive out to the highway and back in. Fundraisers meant we had a music program with instruments and put on a musical every year. My sibling in my home school just had one annual concert with each grade teacher teaching the kids a song. Same for PE (Nice gym vs. "cafetorium"), and the building in general (Brand new versus 20 years old). It's the same district, but it's a huge difference.

This is why my job exists. I raise the money - through grants, business partnerships and donations from parents and alumni - to ensure that the kids at the three Title 1 schools in our district get the same educational programs as the kids in the $3 million homes on the other side of our city.

[DarcyLongfellow]

Aug 14, 2023 11:16:56 GMT -5 sent said:

If the schools are in the same system and there is this much disparity between them, why?

Are the parents making up the difference? 

I spent the past year on the Parent Teacher Council in my district and saw firsthand how the budget doesn't provide everything parents think it does. This message is also very poorly communicated to the community. We don't deal with the bus issue as much here because NJ laws mean our town doesn't have to provide bussing at all. But I am not aware on how this works in other districts, especially larger ones. I went to school in a large suburban district in NY where all of the elementary, middle, and high schools were pretty equal in terms of education and extracurriculars. So if a parent chose to send their kid to one of the schools they weren't districted to attend, the parent had to provide the transportation. 

In my experience, yes.

Our (elementary school) PTO is allowed to pay for anything except for teacher/staff salaries and certain improvements to the building/grounds. Those 2 things have to be paid for by the district, but anything else (books, curriculum, online resources, playground structures, school supplies, etc.) can be paid for by the PTO. That frees up a lot of the school's funds to pay for what the PTO isn't allowed to fund. (Note: our PTO *doesn't* pay for 100% of those things, but there is technically no limit on how much they can fundraise and spend on the school.)

I've been following this bus situation because a friend/acquaintance from school is on the school board in Louisville/Jefferson County. Their posts on FB have been shutting down rumors left and right.

[kiminky]

Just to highlight the disparity within the district, we have the most highly rated high school in the state. It does the best academically, as well as does well with extra curriculars, sports, etc. This is an application school. You can apply for this school to go to certain magnet progrmas within the school, you qualify via academics, letters of rec, extra curriculars, sports, etc. So, the parents are super involved. Very active, high fund raising PTA, big donor alumni, big money making athletics (think just selling food at games). The money is flowing at this school because of the parents and alumni.

Just a couple of miles away you have a very low performing high school. The athletic facilities are shit. Some teams have to borrow uniforms from other schools to play. It doesn't have a very active, high fundraising PTA to draw from or boosters or wealthy alumni.

Huge disparities in what these schools can do after their base funds are allocated.

[curbsideprophet]

I definitely do not understand the idea of being able to pick any school in the district and then expecting the district to provide transportation to that school. Our district is over 600 square miles. If you are accepted to a magnet school they do provide transportation. This involves being bused to a hub and then to your magnet school. You do have to apply to the magnet that is associated with your address (we have multiple magnets with the same theme).

If you ask to go to a school outside your zoned school and you are accepted you are responsible for the transportation.

I know we have had driver issues in the past. Not sure if that is expected to be a problem this year or not.

For this staggered start schedule how was it determine which schools start when? This whole thing seems weird.

We have staggered starts but as far as I know all the elementary schools start first, then middle schools and then all the high schools start last.

[Roc A Bee]

My district puts the best magnet schools in the lowest socioeconomic area. So it is the neighborhood school for those students. Anyone else who is approved to go, has to provide their own transportation. This seems to work well.

[terpsfan]

Aug 14, 2023 14:44:08 GMT -5 wawa said:

what a mess.  Like, on so many levels. I feel like I have a lot of backseat driver thoughts here on how this could have been avoided, but as this thread is demonstrating there are a lot of regional/state differences in how schools are operated, so it's really hard for me to actually say how they OUGHT to have done this when I don't know enough about the reality of the situation. 

I can say that this "pick a school, any school" method feels like a fucking mess and ditto pixy0stix on the sentiment on school choice in general.

We’ve got a mess on our hands now!!! Yay HoCo.

[mala]

Howard County, MD doesn't have enough drivers for the routes. So, yay? Our school starts next week (in the neighboring county), no wonder I've had no less than three emails asking me to double check bus routes and times.

[terpsfan]

Aug 29, 2023 17:19:28 GMT -5 mala said:

Howard County, MD doesn't have enough drivers for the routes. So, yay? Our school starts next week (in the neighboring county), no wonder I've had no less than three emails asking me to double check bus routes and times.

May the odds be in your favor. It’s been a hot mess here — from the California based contractor to the comical mass confusion communications from the school system.

[jobae1234]

I was on a school board years ago in PA. The requirement to bus to a nondistrict school predates the school choice BS. It was meant to be so that kids who NEED a different school (school for the blind, school for dyslexia, school for autism) had equal access to those schools and that transportation didn’t place an undue burden on parents just because their kid had different needs. And the requirement is to bus to a 10 mile diameter OUTSIDE the outer limit of the district. Really fucking far if your district is big.

Placing school choice on top of that mandate, plus underpaying bus drivers, plus covid concerns, has caused massive issues.

[ssmjlm]

Aug 29, 2023 17:19:28 GMT -5 mala said:

Howard County, MD doesn't have enough drivers for the routes. So, yay? Our school starts next week (in the neighboring county), no wonder I've had no less than three emails asking me to double check bus routes and times.

This was our reality since before COVID. Supposedly this year they have a driver for every route.

I posted our bus woes last year where at one point our school didn't know if a bus was even going to show for my kid. Finally in February we got a new driver and we were all overjoyed to see him again on Monday.

A bigger issue is that most schools are not deemed "walkable" by the county. So a friend lives very close to school, but technically her kids could ride the bus because we have no sidewalks or crosswalks, etc. I do wonder if updating communities would be cheaper than trying to find bus drivers each year?  Parents had to petition for a bike rack at the school for two years before they got one put in. I was honestly shocked at the lengths the school system wanted to go to keep kids from walking/riding their bikes to school.

[mala]

Aug 30, 2023 8:18:13 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

Aug 29, 2023 17:19:28 GMT -5 mala said:

Howard County, MD doesn't have enough drivers for the routes. So, yay? Our school starts next week (in the neighboring county), no wonder I've had no less than three emails asking me to double check bus routes and times.

This was our reality since before COVID. Supposedly this year they have a driver for every route.

I posted our bus woes last year where at one point our school didn't know if a bus was even going to show for my kid. Finally in February we got a new driver and we were all overjoyed to see him again on Monday.

A bigger issue is that most schools are not deemed "walkable" by the county. So a friend lives very close to school, but technically her kids could ride the bus because we have no sidewalks or crosswalks, etc. I do wonder if updating communities would be cheaper than trying to find bus drivers each year?  Parents had to petition for a bike rack at the school for two years before they got one put in. I was honestly shocked at the lengths the school system wanted to go to keep kids from walking/riding their bikes to school.

I would LOVE to walk the kid to and from school. It's exactly 1.5mi from our house, but the sidewalk from the school only goes halfway down the main road we need to walk to our house. If the county would just extend that sidewalk another 50ft*, I would walk her every day.

*I checked google maps and it's probably one 150ft section and one 100ft section on one side of the road, or 75ft and a crosswalk & guard to cross to the other side of the main road. Not insurmountable, but not things the county is going to spend money on now.

[wawa]

Aug 29, 2023 12:41:59 GMT -5 terpsfan said:

Aug 14, 2023 14:44:08 GMT -5 wawa said:

what a mess.  Like, on so many levels. I feel like I have a lot of backseat driver thoughts here on how this could have been avoided, but as this thread is demonstrating there are a lot of regional/state differences in how schools are operated, so it's really hard for me to actually say how they OUGHT to have done this when I don't know enough about the reality of the situation. 

I can say that this "pick a school, any school" method feels like a fucking mess and ditto pixy0stix on the sentiment on school choice in general.

We’ve got a mess on our hands now!!! Yay HoCo.

I'm so disappointed in us falling for the fancy tech based contractor and missing BASIC SHIT like training your drivers on the routes or having any ANY navigation backup for drivers.

The staffing shortage is everywhere, and they're paying pretty well so I feel like that's out of everyone's hands to an extent
but the TRAINING. every day I hear new and exciting stories from parents of kids with buses about drivers going on sightseeing tours with buses full of kids. (My personal fave being the bus full of middle schoolers pulling into the wrong school and asking the kids "is this your school?") Almost glad we lost our bus when they extended the walk zone so we had already "made other arrangements."

[scm1011]

Jeez, what a mess. We don't have school buses here so I'm not hip to this kind of drama. I'm glad we can walk/bike to school easily!

[macmars45]

I work at DS' elementary school so he comes with me. Thankfully.

As part of my job at the school I get to make sure the right kids get on the right bus (especially the kinders). It's cRaZy! All the bus drivers for our school are brand new this year.

[aprilsails]

Big drama in my area as well. Announcements went out yesterday and they are short drivers for 100 routes starting tomorrow morning. So everyone found out yesterday if they do or do not have bussing for Monday. Of course the longest rural routes are the ones that are not getting service because drivers can only do one loop or drivers don't want to sign up for those longer drives.

Last year they had enough drivers a few weeks into the school year but there was less of a shortage.

[icedcoffee]

Aug 30, 2023 10:06:00 GMT -5 mala said:

Aug 30, 2023 8:18:13 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

This was our reality since before COVID. Supposedly this year they have a driver for every route.

I posted our bus woes last year where at one point our school didn't know if a bus was even going to show for my kid. Finally in February we got a new driver and we were all overjoyed to see him again on Monday.

A bigger issue is that most schools are not deemed "walkable" by the county. So a friend lives very close to school, but technically her kids could ride the bus because we have no sidewalks or crosswalks, etc. I do wonder if updating communities would be cheaper than trying to find bus drivers each year?  Parents had to petition for a bike rack at the school for two years before they got one put in. I was honestly shocked at the lengths the school system wanted to go to keep kids from walking/riding their bikes to school.

I would LOVE to walk the kid to and from school. It's exactly 1.5mi from our house, but the sidewalk from the school only goes halfway down the main road we need to walk to our house. If the county would just extend that sidewalk another 50ft*, I would walk her every day.

*I checked google maps and it's probably one 150ft section and one 100ft section on one side of the road, or 75ft and a crosswalk & guard to cross to the other side of the main road. Not insurmountable, but not things the county is going to spend money on now.

This was our situation.  I live legitimately across the street from our elementary school and until 2020 we were eligible for bussing because we don't have sidewalks.  I submitted a proposal to the county when we bought the house in 2014 and it was ignored until 2018 when a local citizens association picked it up and with their help we were finally able to get a sidewalk built in 2020.  It's been amazing.

You wouldn't believe how many people were against the sidewalk though.  Including people who didn't want one because their precious wouldn't get bussing.  I was like....umm...it's called walking and it's good for you and your child.  Thankfully the project lead did not listen to this feedback and approved it.

[winemaker06]

Aug 31, 2023 4:55:49 GMT -5 wawa said:

Aug 29, 2023 12:41:59 GMT -5 terpsfan said:

We’ve got a mess on our hands now!!! Yay HoCo.

I'm so disappointed in us falling for the fancy tech based contractor and missing BASIC SHIT like training your drivers on the routes or having any ANY navigation backup for drivers.

The staffing shortage is everywhere, and they're paying pretty well so I feel like that's out of everyone's hands to an extent
but the TRAINING. every day I hear new and exciting stories from parents of kids with buses about drivers going on sightseeing tours with buses full of kids. (My personal fave being the bus full of middle schoolers pulling into the wrong school and asking the kids "is this your school?") Almost glad we lost our bus when they extended the walk zone so we had already "made other arrangements."

We don’t even have zum, and it has still been a complete disaster in the non-zum parts of HoCo. Our kids went on a journey 4-5 miles in the wrong direction after school on the 2nd day (so 4th time driving the route). I don’t even have words anymore!

[terpsfan]

Aug 31, 2023 20:53:50 GMT -5 winemaker06 said:

Aug 31, 2023 4:55:49 GMT -5 wawa said:

I'm so disappointed in us falling for the fancy tech based contractor and missing BASIC SHIT like training your drivers on the routes or having any ANY navigation backup for drivers.

The staffing shortage is everywhere, and they're paying pretty well so I feel like that's out of everyone's hands to an extent
but the TRAINING. every day I hear new and exciting stories from parents of kids with buses about drivers going on sightseeing tours with buses full of kids. (My personal fave being the bus full of middle schoolers pulling into the wrong school and asking the kids "is this your school?") Almost glad we lost our bus when they extended the walk zone so we had already "made other arrangements."

We don’t even have zum, and it has still been a complete disaster in the non-zum parts of HoCo. Our kids went on a journey 4-5 miles in the wrong direction after school on the 2nd day (so 4th time driving the route). I don’t even have words anymore!

This morning’s fun included a text just 20 mins before bus was to arrive that our bus was cancelled and “families to make alternate arrangements”. I was already at office and DH on a call so thankfully we have neighbors to drive. Oh also— they shame us for giving our kids cell phones but I can’t imagine how much worse this would be if we couldn’t communicate nor “track” them real time. This is such an incredible mess.

[arehopsveggies]

School bus issues are also rough on teachers. If most of our students haven’t left by the end of our “contract time”-
Then what?

A month into school and this is still a big stress for me.

[whattheheck]

Sept 5, 2023 22:05:50 GMT -5 arehopsveggies said:

School bus issues are also rough on teachers. If most of our students haven’t left by the end of our “contract time”-
Then what?

A month into school and this is still a big stress for me.

.

It’s interesting that you bring this up. Our district has a driver shortage and typically does two runs: first run to/from the MS/HS and second run to/from the three ES. So in order to get everyone on a bus run they made the runs longer which takes more time. So that second run cannot be completed by the time it has been in the past. So the transportation direction apparently just announced that the kids will be getting dropped off and picked up 30+ minutes later than prior years. Which puts pick up either right at the end or beyond contract hours (I’m not sure which). And apparently they can’t just shift the lunch periods bc they have a contract with an outside company that isn’t willing to amend the contract. So it’s a big cluster all around. I don’t know what the solution is. My kid’s transportation card came with a pick up time of 6:00 and a drop off of 4:57.