@ school bus meltdown

[SusanBAnthony]

www.google.com/amp/s/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/education/kentucky-school-districts-bus-route-meltdown-draws-public-outrage-calls-for-change

I haven't found anything more detailed than this. It sounds like Louisville reorganized all bus routes to be more efficient, and the first day was a disaster, maybe just because it was all new routes? There was a consultant involved and a lot of blame is getting thrown at them.

Anyone have more insight?

[jinkies]

kiminky posted about this on ML. She might have more insight.

[imimahoney]

There is a major driver shortage going on nationwide so crazy bus routes are unfortunately becoming the norm but to keep kids on a bus until 10 pm in absolutely insane.

Twitter says schools are now closed Monday and Tuesday because they still can't figure this shit out.

[curbsideprophet]

I have so many questions just from the example of the elementary school kids. Why are elementary school age kids starting school so late to begin with. Why were they not allowed to go to the bathroom? Once it was over an hour late in the afternoon did they start contacting parents to see if they could just pick the kids up?What a mess!

[Bad Dingo]

Background articles:

New start times adopted in the spring because of driver shortages, later start times being preferable for kids, equity issues - www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2023/02/14/jcps-school-start-times-full-list-of-proposed-times-what-to-know/69855391007/

www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/jcps-releases-bus-stop-locations-204727015.html

A new school choice program was put in place starting this year to address equity concerns - www.jefferson.kyschools.us/departments/communications/monday-memo/school-board-approves-%E2%80%9Chistoric%E2%80%9D-school-choice-plan

The bussing issue is being used by Rs to try to get rid of the new policy (they also want to get rid of the school board which has been fighting against anti-trans bigotry).

[dcn]

I live just south of there, but don’t know any more than what’s in the article. School is closed Monday and Tuesday as well. I’m not sure why they didn’t work out kinks over the summer.

I will say Louisville/JCPS is different in that kids are bussed all over and not necessarily to their neighborhood school, so there’s an extra layer. We are considering staying in the area long term and researching schools is a bit confusing!

[katfco]

Aug 13, 2023 16:24:46 GMT -5 dcn said:

I live just south of there, but don’t know any more than what’s in the article. School is closed Monday and Tuesday as well. I’m not sure why they didn’t work out kinks over the summer.

I will say Louisville/JCPS is different in that kids are bussed all over and not necessarily to their neighborhood school, so there’s an extra layer. We are considering staying in the area long term and researching schools is a bit confusing!

The city where I used to teach had this issue, because of school choice. Anyone who went to a charter school was still bused with the public school buses. Plus, they had a lottery system where people could potentially go to a different school from their neighborhood school. That plus 50K kids sometimes resulted in preK kids getting home after 5 or 6. 

The school district where I'm going to be teaching this year had such bus driver issues last year that they ended up going hybrid the entire school year. 

[nsl]

I'm horrified for those poor little kids whose first day of school must have been terrifying just due to the bus situation. Bus driver shortages nationwide need a lot more attention because every district I know of has been having problems (obviously not this severe) for years now, but wages and benefits for those positions aren't budging enough to attract good candidates.

[maudefindlay]

AI generated bus routes equals mayhem. Kids stranded at school (teachers stayed and cooked them dinner) others stuck on hot busses, kids stuck at depots, some kids stuck downtown were given tours of the city.....a hot freaking mess. Parents could not find their kids and no one was answering phones. Busses do not have GPS and drivers got lost.

Eta A 7 or 8 yr old was dropped off, not at his stop, on a street popular for restaurants and bars. Patrons at a restaurant across the street witnessed kid walking around looking confused and helped him call family and stayed with him till family picked him up.

[kiminky]

Lots of misinformation out there. I work in this district.

-We are a district of almost 100,000 students. The largest in KY.

-The district made a lot of changes this year to help with having more students be able to go to their "resides" schools, to address the bus driver shortages (one of which was to stagger start times, previously we had 2 start times for the whole district), changing/consolidating some bus routes.

-The district has continued to be hamstrung by a GOP supermajority in the legislature that is constantly threatening takeover, how subjects are taught, and most recently implemented a trans student bill (any of this sound familiar?) that the school board was trying to figure out how to implement judiciously up until 2 days before the school year started w/o trampling on trans students rights while still following the law the KYGOP set out.

-The district implemented bus routes/stops from a company out of Boston associated with MIT using AI. It sounds like it was utilized in Columbus last year and it did not go well on a smaller scale. I think the district made some grave errors here and implemented a plan that had huge problems while trying to do the right thing. I am not and will not give them a pass on that.The routes were planned in such a way that left no room for error. So if you have a 5 year old who doesn't know their name (happens all the time) or gets on the bus w/ no information on them about themselves or if a bus breaks down or an adult isn't at the bus stop to pick up a kindergartener (which is required) the dominos start to fall.

-In terms of students being on buses for a long time at the end of the day, yes,that did happen. Bathrooms are only going to be available at the school and our bus depots. Drivers can't really stop once rolling for a child to use the bathroom. I have worked the depots before. They always have water for the kids there. Which allows them to hydrate, etc. But then, they have to go to the bathroom.

[kiminky]

Aug 13, 2023 15:56:53 GMT -5 curbsideprophet said:

I have so many questions just from the example of the elementary school kids. Why are elementary school age kids starting school so late to begin with. Why were they not allowed to go to the bathroom? Once it was over an hour late in the afternoon did they start contacting parents to see if they could just pick the kids up?What a mess!

Elementary school typically started here at 9:05. We staggered start times this year to help with the bus driver shortage. The latest start time this year was 9:40, which meant school would end at 4:20.

I addressed the some of the bathroom issue in my other post.

It is also difficult to just start calling parents, that creates a different kind of chaos. You need staff monitoring children waiting on buses, staff then making phine calls to parents, staff signing kids out, staff monitoring a new parent pick up line, etc. Not all parents can just start picking up their kids in the middle of a weekday.

[kiminky]

Aug 13, 2023 16:24:46 GMT -5 dcn said:

I live just south of there, but don’t know any more than what’s in the article. School is closed Monday and Tuesday as well. I’m not sure why they didn’t work out kinks over the summer.

I will say Louisville/JCPS is different in that kids are bussed all over and not necessarily to their neighborhood school, so there’s an extra layer. We are considering staying in the area long term and researching schools is a bit confusing!

Students can attend a school in their "resides" or neighborhood school or choose to go to a school further away. They can also choose to go to a magnet or traditional program at a school that may be further away. The parents/students have a lot of choices (probably too many), hence so many buses.

[neverfstop]

Aug 13, 2023 20:51:12 GMT -5 kiminky said:

Aug 13, 2023 15:56:53 GMT -5 curbsideprophet said:

I have so many questions just from the example of the elementary school kids. Why are elementary school age kids starting school so late to begin with. Why were they not allowed to go to the bathroom? Once it was over an hour late in the afternoon did they start contacting parents to see if they could just pick the kids up?What a mess!

Elementary school typically started here at 9:05. We staggered start times this year to help with the bus driver shortage. The latest start time this year was 9:40, which meant school would end at 4:20.

I addressed the some of the bathroom issue in my other post.

It is also difficult to just start calling parents, that creates a different kind of chaos. You need staff monitoring children waiting on buses, staff then making phine calls to parents, staff signing kids out, staff monitoring a new parent pick up line, etc. Not all parents can just start picking up their kids in the middle of a weekday.

Bussing everywhere is a mess. I'm at a very large district in Texas and it's decent, but they are putting in a new tracking system this year.  We had an app that told us when kids scan on/off bus or when bus leaves school.  Our friends use airtage or have an iwatch to track kids location.  This new system should provide more real time updates if a bus is late or stuck/stopped somewhere.

My kids go 8:40 to 4:20 ((( It's such a long day...i wish we had short days with fewer hours and then a longer school year with a shorter summer.   Including bus time it's about 8:15 to 4:50, sometimes 5:00.

[CurlyQ284]

Aug 13, 2023 20:53:47 GMT -5 kiminky said:

Aug 13, 2023 16:24:46 GMT -5 dcn said:

I live just south of there, but don’t know any more than what’s in the article. School is closed Monday and Tuesday as well. I’m not sure why they didn’t work out kinks over the summer.

I will say Louisville/JCPS is different in that kids are bussed all over and not necessarily to their neighborhood school, so there’s an extra layer. We are considering staying in the area long term and researching schools is a bit confusing!

Students can attend a school in their "resides" or neighborhood school or choose to go to a school further away. They can also choose to go to a magnet or traditional program at a school that may be further away. The parents/students have a lot of choices (probably too many), hence so many buses.

So if they don't choose their neighborhood school they can still ride the bus there?

In Michigan we have "school of choice" so you can apply to go to a school outside of the one you are zoned for but then you have to pick up and drop off, the bus doesn't come.

[ssmjlm]

Aug 14, 2023 5:50:16 GMT -5 CurlyQ284 said:

Aug 13, 2023 20:53:47 GMT -5 kiminky said:

Students can attend a school in their "resides" or neighborhood school or choose to go to a school further away. They can also choose to go to a magnet or traditional program at a school that may be further away. The parents/students have a lot of choices (probably too many), hence so many buses.

So if they don't choose their neighborhood school they can still ride the bus there?

In Michigan we have "school of choice" so you can apply to go to a school outside of the one you are zoned for but then you have to pick up and drop off, the bus doesn't come.

Same for my county in Virginia. If you choose the science or art focused school, parents are responsible for transportation. Same in HS if you choose to go to the IB school.


We had a terrible driver for the first half+ year last year. But we did have a decent text system, so once they told us "we have no idea when your bus is getting to school," we went and got her. I know that we have the capability for between WFH and DH's early schedule, but I can't imagine not even knowing they had not left the shool yet.

[dcn]

Aug 14, 2023 5:50:16 GMT -5 CurlyQ284 said:

Aug 13, 2023 20:53:47 GMT -5 kiminky said:

Students can attend a school in their "resides" or neighborhood school or choose to go to a school further away. They can also choose to go to a magnet or traditional program at a school that may be further away. The parents/students have a lot of choices (probably too many), hence so many buses.

So if they don't choose their neighborhood school they can still ride the bus there?

In Michigan we have "school of choice" so you can apply to go to a school outside of the one you are zoned for but then you have to pick up and drop off, the bus doesn't come.

Yes. They have bus depots, so you may need to ride a bus from your house, then switch to a different bus to get to your school.

[bears]

I live in North Carolina, we don't start until the 28th, and we've been asked to decline bus service unless it is essential. Buses are shared between elementary, middle, and high schools already (staggered start times), so any delays cascade over time.

We live 1.5 miles away from school. Last year, we had no issues with mornings, but afternoons the kids typically didn't get home until over an hour after dismissal. Kids would wait in classrooms or the library until the buses showed up. I fear that it will be far worse this year, but we'll play it by ear.

The shortage would 100% be fixed by paying drivers more, but the school budget is caught up with the state budget, which is delayed, so I don't see this getting fixed any time soon. It pisses me off because the amount of inconvenience and chaos this situation causes will cost families way more than the few extra $/hour it would take to resolve this issue.

[akayf]

Aug 13, 2023 20:53:47 GMT -5 kiminky said:

Aug 13, 2023 16:24:46 GMT -5 dcn said:

I live just south of there, but don’t know any more than what’s in the article. School is closed Monday and Tuesday as well. I’m not sure why they didn’t work out kinks over the summer.

I will say Louisville/JCPS is different in that kids are bussed all over and not necessarily to their neighborhood school, so there’s an extra layer. We are considering staying in the area long term and researching schools is a bit confusing!

Students can attend a school in their "resides" or neighborhood school or choose to go to a school further away. They can also choose to go to a magnet or traditional program at a school that may be further away. The parents/students have a lot of choices (probably too many), hence so many buses.

I may be showing my privilege here but why is the district providing transportation if you choose to attend a different school than your zoned neighborhood? I understand and expect transportation to magnet schools since those schools are public schools with specialized programs. But why do you get transportation if you opt to attend at ABC school on the opposite side of the district just because you like that school better than the one in your neighborhood? In my district, you can apply for a transfer to another school in the district but parents are responsible for their own transportation. I’ve been dealing with this for the past 6 years since both my kids attended non zoned elementary schools and middle schools for various reasons but mainly because due to my job location, it was easier to drive them to the choice school. But my ability to provide my own transportation is due to my privilege. I know not everyone has jobs that permit them to drive their kids to a school across town(which is why I wound up driving 2 friends’ kids home daily when my oldest was in middle school)

[erbear]

Aug 14, 2023 8:43:36 GMT -5 bears said:

I live in North Carolina, we don't start until the 28th, and we've been asked to decline bus service unless it is essential. Buses are shared between elementary, middle, and high schools already (staggered start times), so any delays cascade over time.

We live 1.5 miles away from school. Last year, we had no issues with mornings, but afternoons the kids typically didn't get home until over an hour after dismissal. Kids would wait in classrooms or the library until the buses showed up. I fear that it will be far worse this year, but we'll play it by ear.

The shortage would 100% be fixed by paying drivers more, but the school budget is caught up with the state budget, which is delayed, so I don't see this getting fixed any time soon. It pisses me off because the amount of inconvenience and chaos this situation causes will cost families way more than the few extra $/hour it would take to resolve this issue.

We are also being asked this, and the district is paying families monthly who don’t take the bus.

[Deleted]

Aug 14, 2023 9:26:59 GMT -5 akayf said:

Aug 13, 2023 20:53:47 GMT -5 kiminky said:

Students can attend a school in their "resides" or neighborhood school or choose to go to a school further away. They can also choose to go to a magnet or traditional program at a school that may be further away. The parents/students have a lot of choices (probably too many), hence so many buses.

I may be showing my privilege here but why is the district providing transportation if you choose to attend a different school than your zoned neighborhood? I understand and expect transportation to magnet schools since those schools are public schools with specialized programs. But why do you get transportation if you opt to attend at ABC school on the opposite side of the district just because you like that school better than the one in your neighborhood? In my district, you can apply for a transfer to another school in the district but parents are responsible for their own transportation. I’ve been dealing with this for the past 6 years since both my kids attended non zoned elementary schools and middle schools for various reasons but mainly because due to my job location, it was easier to drive them to the choice school. But my ability to provide my own transportation is due to my privilege. I know not everyone has jobs that permit them to drive their kids to a school across town(which is why I wound up driving 2 friends’ kids home daily when my oldest was in middle school)

So if a kid comes from a low-income or single-parent family that has to work and can’t provide transportation, those kids should just miss out on the opportunities that rich kids can partake in?

[quesyrah]

Aug 14, 2023 9:26:59 GMT -5 akayf said:

Aug 13, 2023 20:53:47 GMT -5 kiminky said:

Students can attend a school in their "resides" or neighborhood school or choose to go to a school further away. They can also choose to go to a magnet or traditional program at a school that may be further away. The parents/students have a lot of choices (probably too many), hence so many buses.

I may be showing my privilege here but why is the district providing transportation if you choose to attend a different school than your zoned neighborhood? I understand and expect transportation to magnet schools since those schools are public schools with specialized programs. But why do you get transportation if you opt to attend at ABC school on the opposite side of the district just because you like that school better than the one in your neighborhood? In my district, you can apply for a transfer to another school in the district but parents are responsible for their own transportation. I’ve been dealing with this for the past 6 years since both my kids attended non zoned elementary schools and middle schools for various reasons but mainly because due to my job location, it was easier to drive them to the choice school. But my ability to provide my own transportation is due to my privilege. I know not everyone has jobs that permit them to drive their kids to a school across town(which is why I wound up driving 2 friends’ kids home daily when my oldest was in middle school)

This is definitely privilege showing.

Clearly you’ve never lived where your neighborhood zoned school is literally falling apart, not enough supplies for the kids, no enrichment programs, etc. while the school
across town is beautifully maintained with art and music programs.

[sent]

Aug 14, 2023 10:41:41 GMT -5 quesyrah said:

Aug 14, 2023 9:26:59 GMT -5 akayf said:

I may be showing my privilege here but why is the district providing transportation if you choose to attend a different school than your zoned neighborhood? I understand and expect transportation to magnet schools since those schools are public schools with specialized programs. But why do you get transportation if you opt to attend at ABC school on the opposite side of the district just because you like that school better than the one in your neighborhood? In my district, you can apply for a transfer to another school in the district but parents are responsible for their own transportation. I’ve been dealing with this for the past 6 years since both my kids attended non zoned elementary schools and middle schools for various reasons but mainly because due to my job location, it was easier to drive them to the choice school. But my ability to provide my own transportation is due to my privilege. I know not everyone has jobs that permit them to drive their kids to a school across town(which is why I wound up driving 2 friends’ kids home daily when my oldest was in middle school)

This is definitely privilege showing.

Clearly you’ve never lived where your neighborhood zoned school is literally falling apart, not enough supplies for the kids, no enrichment programs, etc. while the school
across town is beautifully maintained with art and music programs.

If the schools are in the same system and there is this much disparity between them, why?

Are the parents making up the difference? 

I spent the past year on the Parent Teacher Council in my district and saw firsthand how the budget doesn't provide everything parents think it does. This message is also very poorly communicated to the community. We don't deal with the bus issue as much here because NJ laws mean our town doesn't have to provide bussing at all. But I am not aware on how this works in other districts, especially larger ones. I went to school in a large suburban district in NY where all of the elementary, middle, and high schools were pretty equal in terms of education and extracurriculars. So if a parent chose to send their kid to one of the schools they weren't districted to attend, the parent had to provide the transportation. 

[quesyrah]

Aug 14, 2023 11:16:56 GMT -5 sent said:

Aug 14, 2023 10:41:41 GMT -5 quesyrah said:

This is definitely privilege showing.

Clearly you’ve never lived where your neighborhood zoned school is literally falling apart, not enough supplies for the kids, no enrichment programs, etc. while the school
across town is beautifully maintained with art and music programs.

If the schools are in the same system and there is this much disparity between them, why?

Are the parents making up the difference? 

I spent the past year on the Parent Teacher Council in my district and saw firsthand how the budget doesn't provide everything parents think it does. This message is also very poorly communicated to the community. We don't deal with the bus issue as much here because NJ laws mean our town doesn't have to provide bussing at all. But I am not aware on how this works in other districts, especially larger ones. I went to school in a large suburban district in NY where all of the elementary, middle, and high schools were pretty equal in terms of education and extracurriculars. So if a parent chose to send their kid to one of the schools they weren't districted to attend, the parent had to provide the transportation. 

I don’t know. I’m sure some of it is PTA making up the difference.

[akayf]

Aug 14, 2023 10:41:41 GMT -5 quesyrah said:

Aug 14, 2023 9:26:59 GMT -5 akayf said:

I may be showing my privilege here but why is the district providing transportation if you choose to attend a different school than your zoned neighborhood? I understand and expect transportation to magnet schools since those schools are public schools with specialized programs. But why do you get transportation if you opt to attend at ABC school on the opposite side of the district just because you like that school better than the one in your neighborhood? In my district, you can apply for a transfer to another school in the district but parents are responsible for their own transportation. I’ve been dealing with this for the past 6 years since both my kids attended non zoned elementary schools and middle schools for various reasons but mainly because due to my job location, it was easier to drive them to the choice school. But my ability to provide my own transportation is due to my privilege. I know not everyone has jobs that permit them to drive their kids to a school across town(which is why I wound up driving 2 friends’ kids home daily when my oldest was in middle school)

This is definitely privilege showing.

Clearly you’ve never lived where your neighborhood zoned school is literally falling apart, not enough supplies for the kids, no enrichment programs, etc. while the school
across town is beautifully maintained with art and music programs.

I appreciate you checking my privilege. Pretty much every school in my district is the same. It’s a suburban district that’s pretty diverse. Yes, this school might have a better music program than that one but that’s because they have a kick ass band director or choir director who goes above and beyond not because they get more funding. I guess it also helps that even though we have 17 elementary schools, 5 middle schools, and 3 high schools, the district is under 25 square miles so even the furtherest school is under a 30 minute drive.

I was just surprised that transportation was offered if you chose to go to a different school because that’s not the norm in my district and the surrounding districts too. But most districts around here are much smaller than this district. 100,000 students! Wow! I think my town just hit over 100,000 residents recently. So we clearly have a lot less students.

[quesyrah]

Aug 14, 2023 11:24:08 GMT -5 akayf said:

Aug 14, 2023 10:41:41 GMT -5 quesyrah said:

This is definitely privilege showing.

Clearly you’ve never lived where your neighborhood zoned school is literally falling apart, not enough supplies for the kids, no enrichment programs, etc. while the school
across town is beautifully maintained with art and music programs.

I appreciate you checking my privilege. Pretty much every school in my district is the same. It’s a suburban district that’s pretty diverse. Yes, this school might have a better music program than that one but that’s because they have a kick ass band director or choir director who goes above and beyond not because they get more funding. I guess it also helps that even though we have 17 elementary schools, 5 middle schools, and 3 high schools, the district is under 25 square miles so even the furtherest school is under a 30 minute drive.

I was just surprised that transportation was offered if you chose to go to a different school because that’s not the norm in my district and the surrounding districts too. But most districts around here are much smaller than this district. 100,000 students! Wow! I think my town just hit over 100,000 residents recently. So we clearly have a lot less students.

All of our schools are close too and we don’t have any buses.

The two schools I’m talking about are less than 2 miles apart.

[sent]

Aug 14, 2023 11:25:14 GMT -5 quesyrah said:

All of our schools are close too and we don’t have any buses.

The two schools I’m talking about are less than 2 miles apart.

So in your district there are 2 schools that are under 2 miles apart, and there is this much disparity between them?

I know you already said that you don't know why there is a funding disparity. I'm curious if you are in the suburbs or in a city. You don't have to answer. 

[quesyrah]

Aug 14, 2023 11:45:36 GMT -5 sent said:

Aug 14, 2023 11:25:14 GMT -5 quesyrah said:

All of our schools are close too and we don’t have any buses.

The two schools I’m talking about are less than 2 miles apart.

So in your district there are 2 schools that are under 2 miles apart, and there is this much disparity between them?

I know you already said that you don't know why there is a funding disparity. I'm curious if you are in the suburbs or in a city. You don't have to answer. 

Yes. Suburbs in southern CA.

[sent]

Aug 14, 2023 10:38:35 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Aug 14, 2023 9:26:59 GMT -5 akayf said:

I may be showing my privilege here but why is the district providing transportation if you choose to attend a different school than your zoned neighborhood? I understand and expect transportation to magnet schools since those schools are public schools with specialized programs. But why do you get transportation if you opt to attend at ABC school on the opposite side of the district just because you like that school better than the one in your neighborhood? In my district, you can apply for a transfer to another school in the district but parents are responsible for their own transportation. I’ve been dealing with this for the past 6 years since both my kids attended non zoned elementary schools and middle schools for various reasons but mainly because due to my job location, it was easier to drive them to the choice school. But my ability to provide my own transportation is due to my privilege. I know not everyone has jobs that permit them to drive their kids to a school across town(which is why I wound up driving 2 friends’ kids home daily when my oldest was in middle school)

So if a kid comes from a low-income or single-parent family that has to work and can’t provide transportation, those kids should just miss out on the opportunities that rich kids can partake in?

According to this logic, a lot of the kids from low-income or single-parent families would be signing up to attend the better school. This is assuming that it is the parent choosing which school their kid attends. Versus the other side which could be district saying "your child needs to attend this school you aren't zoned for because of xyz program offered there." If it's the second one where the district is choosing where your child should go, then yes, busing should be provided. I understood that akayf was referring to the first scenario where the parent is choosing. 

[pixy0stix]

There's that much disparity between districts because parents are jamming the "good" school with funding/kids and letting the other district rot by pulling their support and kids. It happens all the time and cycles through, as at some point the rotting school is going to get an injection of funding, get all new programs, and parents are going to pull their kids from the "good" school, which in turn will then turn them to the "bad" school, lather rinse repeat.

The last time this was brought up someone said when criticized about kids being choiced to different schools, "I'm not for letting kids be sacrificial lambs." No, you're not for letting YOUR kids being sacrificial lambs. You give zero shits about the neighborhood schools where people don't have a choice to pull and move.

Fuck me, check your privilege fucking bullshit. Schools of choice fucking ruin school districts. Charter schools ruin districts. Kids shouldn't be using public funding to be bussed outside of their neighborhood.

[elleblue]

Aug 14, 2023 12:21:01 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Schools of choice fucking ruin school districts. Charter schools ruin districts. Kids shouldn't be using public funding to be bussed outside of their neighborhood.

Sadly I think most don't understand this at best, or don't care at worst.

Fucking Bush and No Child Left Behind that did the exact opposite.