Airlines are banks in the sky

[Poeticxpassion]

Sept 25, 2023 21:10:35 GMT -5 sent said:

Sept 25, 2023 20:49:31 GMT -5 Poeticxpassion said:

It is always illegal to add a surcharge or convenience fee to a customer using a debit card. However, a credit card is different. In certain states, what you are describing is illegal.

States that prohibit credit card surcharges and convenience fees

Ten states prohibit credit card surcharges and convenience fees: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas. It is illegal for merchants to add any surcharges to credit card transactions or charge convenience fees to nontraditional payment methods in these states.

Is writing "3.5% discount for paying with cash" different?

(the link you posted asked me if I wanted to refinance something and didn't show me an article)

I’m sorry about that. I removed the link. It didn’t state anything about that type of wording. It was about the signs businesses put up with minimums and trying to pass the fee along to the customer. 

[breezy8407]

Sept 25, 2023 19:57:20 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

SO this is also happening too... I wonder if other airlines/lounges will follow. Clubs got too full....

www.cnn.com/cnn-underscored/travel/delta-sky-club-elite-status-changes
Delta to slash Sky Club access for Amex card holders

Yes, this is the other thing my colleagues are upset about. MSP opened a new club this year and its really nice, so the crowding problem mostly stopped. 10x a year is more than most people will use it but it will affect business travelers and frequent flyers. But, if you are flying that much and still spending enough, you will still get unlimited access. Regardless, they are truly focusing on high card spend. The annual fee isn't enough to buy your way in starting 2025. 

[dove]

Somewhat related - NPR posted an article about CC fees and how it affects businesses today.
www.npr.org/2023/09/26/1201257895/credit-card-fees-visa-mastercard-retailers

[ellipses84]

I’d be curious to see what % the banks are making from airline credit card fees vs. interest. I thought they’d earn more in interest. Obviously the point is to pay off your card every month and earn the benefits for free, but I bet a lot of people don’t.

[Michelle]

Sept 25, 2023 14:15:25 GMT -5 icedcoffee said:

Sept 25, 2023 13:49:08 GMT -5 EvieEthelGarland said:

The only rewards program I've liked is Southwest. It's based on price, not a flat fee for a flight. I can fly at a moment's notice for $10-$20 and sometimes flights are as low as 3500 miles one way.
The last time I used United points, I had to book a year in advance, they separated me from my toddler (we had booked seats together and this was 10 years ago before they started charging) and told me I needed to fly more to elevate my status if I wanted to sit with my 3yo. I was cashing in 400k miles--I had status! The same flight on SWA would've been max 50k.
I've read the points guy but it always seemed like so much work.

I've never been airline loyal until recently and now I am basically ride or die Southwest flyer.  Changing flights is so easy and using points is also easy.  I'll never have "status" on SW, but I fly often for free using my Chase points.  

@@especially now that I have kids I love that I can cancel my flights up until 10 minutes before.  Kids add so much unpredictability into life.

I need to read the article.

In reply to these comments, I have a SWA FF card. I live 15-20 minutes from one of their main hubs. I have my electric bill and so many bills auto-pay against that credit card and I pay that off each month. The miles I rack up doing that afford two free tickets to visit family in Ohio each year as well as flying a family member from Ohio to us. 

I also like that it is easy to change flights using points or miles.

I need to make time to read that article, based on all the other comments.

[goldengirlz]

Sept 26, 2023 12:35:26 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

I’d be curious to see what % the banks are making from airline credit card fees vs. interest. I thought they’d earn more in interest. Obviously the point is to pay off your card every month and earn the benefits for free, but I bet a lot of people don’t.

Looks like it depends on the company: www.fool.com/the-ascent/research/credit-card-company-earnings/

Interchange fees are actually the largest category for AmEx and Mastercard, but interest is the biggest category for Discover.

I guess that makes sense. AmEx offers a lot of premium cards and you need excellent credit to get them — wealthier customers are less likely to carry a balance so AmEx is making money off of their purchasing power. OTOH, if you’re a company that’s more willing to lend to people with riskier credit, then you probably earn more in interest.

[breezy8407]

Delta CEO "probably went too far" with SkyMiles changes:

www.cnn.com/travel/delta-ceo-bastian-skymiles-changes/index.html

[escrow]

I work for SWA... in Revenue Management. This is super interesting to me If anyone ever wants to know how many people are booked on their flights I can look it up heh

[tiramisu]

Sept 25, 2023 20:49:31 GMT -5 Poeticxpassion said:

Sept 25, 2023 18:14:44 GMT -5 @villainv said:

I’m not sure I represent all customers, but in cases like this, especially with small businesses, I appreciate seeing something like “2.5% credit card fee, or a minimum of $1.50 per purchase” or whatever so I can decide if I want to pay cash or use a card. 90% of the time I use my card knowing and understanding the fee.

It is always illegal to add a surcharge or convenience fee to a customer using a debit card. However, a credit card is different. In certain states, what you are describing is illegal.

States that prohibit credit card surcharges and convenience fees

Ten states prohibit credit card surcharges and convenience fees: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma and Texas. It is illegal for merchants to add any surcharges to credit card transactions or charge convenience fees to nontraditional payment methods in these states.

Removed link as it was going to a refinancing questionnaire. Sorry about that!

Now I need to look into this for something unrelated to CC payments/points/airlines. The property management company where I live has decided renters have to pay the processing fee for our electronic payments. Even though that's the only way we're allowed to pay. Unrelated, don't want to create a tangent, just wanted to thank you for this.

[SusanBAnthony]

Sept 28, 2023 9:19:16 GMT -5 breezy8407 said:

Delta CEO "probably went too far" with SkyMiles changes:

www.cnn.com/travel/delta-ceo-bastian-skymiles-changes/index.html

This is why I've been ignoring the changes. I'm a very loyal Delta customer (live in MSP) and fly 10-15 times a year for work and personal. Work tickets are often 800$+ because last minute and then I have the high fee Delta CC. And I would only get 10 lounge visits a year? Ok....... yah I'll wait until the dust settles and then worry about it.

At the end of the day whatever. I recognize I'm privileged and can pay for my own coffee or meal. But if I'm paying I'll start looking at ticket price vs always booking Delta since the lounge= free meal before my flight.