Antitrust lawsuit filed against Amazon

[pixy0stix]

www.politico.com/news/2023/09/26/regulators-launch-suit-to-upend-amazons-business-empire-00118158

[ellipses84]

I’m very happy this is moving forward.

[BlondeSpiders]

I am constantly amazed and disheartened by the Amazonization of all forms of commerce today. I know I'm part on the problem and I'm working on that. But I've watched their business practices ethos trickle down to every other selling site, and even something as small as a single sale on FB Marketplace.

For Etsy sellers, it's very common to have buyers claim they never received a package (even if you have photo proof from your shipper) and get an immediate refund. From your account! They keep their money and the product, and Etsy encourages this. I've heard horror stories from my selling friends about buyers who demand free returns because they couldn't be bothered to read the item description. They feel entitled to this because they're so used to how Amazon does it. (whenever I've returned something because of my own error, the shipping fee is deducted from my refund but Etsy isn't there yet.) If you don't give in to their unreasonable demands, they'll open a case, and Etsy will refund them before you have a chance to plead your case.

Ok, this has turned into more of an Etsy rant! But the expectation of Amazon-level service from Etsy sellers is out of control. I don't expect that a successful breakup of this company (which employs 85K in my state, several of whom are friends/family) will change the hearts and minds of Etsy customers. At least not right away. According to their corporate lawyer-speak, this lawsuit could slow down shipping times. Will I live if I get my cheaply-produced junk in 7 days instead of 2? Probably.

[aurora]

Sept 26, 2023 14:50:28 GMT -5 BlondeSpiders said:

... At least not right away. According to their corporate lawyer-speak, this lawsuit could slow down shipping times. Will I live if I get my cheaply-produced junk in 7 days instead of 2? Probably.

I think slowing down shipping times would be the most effective way to break the monopoly! Which in the long term would be better for many of us, not to mention Earth.

I definitely have been working to increase my local business support and reduce my use of Amazon, but I will admit the most likely times for me to use Amazon are when things are crazy at work and I don't have time to run around town and I realize the item will arrive tomorrow if I click two buttons.

[rubytue]

Sept 27, 2023 8:48:10 GMT -5 aurora said:

Sept 26, 2023 14:50:28 GMT -5 BlondeSpiders said:

... At least not right away. According to their corporate lawyer-speak, this lawsuit could slow down shipping times. Will I live if I get my cheaply-produced junk in 7 days instead of 2? Probably.

I think slowing down shipping times would be the most effective way to break the monopoly! Which in the long term would be better for many of us, not to mention Earth.

I definitely have been working to increase my local business support and reduce my use of Amazon, but I will admit the most likely times for me to use Amazon are when things are crazy at work and I don't have time to run around town and I realize the item will arrive tomorrow if I click two buttons.

It’s not just running around town, but that running around town doesn’t result in success. I live in a city of 100,000, between two major metropolitan areas, and there are a lot of things I just can’t find in certain colors, sizes, specifics. 

[redheadbaker]

Sept 27, 2023 8:48:10 GMT -5 aurora said:

Sept 26, 2023 14:50:28 GMT -5 BlondeSpiders said:

... At least not right away. According to their corporate lawyer-speak, this lawsuit could slow down shipping times. Will I live if I get my cheaply-produced junk in 7 days instead of 2? Probably.

I think slowing down shipping times would be the most effective way to break the monopoly! Which in the long term would be better for many of us, not to mention Earth.

I definitely have been working to increase my local business support and reduce my use of Amazon, but I will admit the most likely times for me to use Amazon are when things are crazy at work and I don't have time to run around town and I realize the item will arrive tomorrow if I click two buttons.

I don't think their shipping times have anything to do with the monopoly. Are they negatively affecting other businesses, yes, but it doesn't have any relation to the monopoly. 

Smaller businesses pretty much have to sell on Amazon, because that's where the buyers are. So, you sign up and sell your stuff on Amazon. Amazon has access to your sales data and can see what your popular products are. They then start manufacturing their own, cheaper, version. Hasan Minhaj did an episode about Amazon on Patriot Act 

And that doesn't even get into Amazon Web Servers. 

[livinitup]

Wrong post.

[aurora]

Sept 27, 2023 19:27:59 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Sept 27, 2023 8:48:10 GMT -5 aurora said:

I think slowing down shipping times would be the most effective way to break the monopoly! Which in the long term would be better for many of us, not to mention Earth.

I definitely have been working to increase my local business support and reduce my use of Amazon, but I will admit the most likely times for me to use Amazon are when things are crazy at work and I don't have time to run around town and I realize the item will arrive tomorrow if I click two buttons.

I don't think their shipping times have anything to do with the monopoly. Are they negatively affecting other businesses, yes, but it doesn't have any relation to the monopoly. 

Smaller businesses pretty much have to sell on Amazon, because that's where the buyers are. So, you sign up and sell your stuff on Amazon. Amazon has access to your sales data and can see what your popular products are. They then start manufacturing their own, cheaper, version. Hasan Minhaj did an episode about Amazon on Patriot Act 

And that doesn't even get into Amazon Web Servers. 

Oh, I agree they have a lot of practices that kill competition (like what you described). But I also think their convenience model is appealing to consumers and that contribute to their overall "success" and thus power compared to other sellers.

[fancynewbeesly]

Sept 27, 2023 13:08:12 GMT -5 rubytue said:

Sept 27, 2023 8:48:10 GMT -5 aurora said:

I think slowing down shipping times would be the most effective way to break the monopoly! Which in the long term would be better for many of us, not to mention Earth.

I definitely have been working to increase my local business support and reduce my use of Amazon, but I will admit the most likely times for me to use Amazon are when things are crazy at work and I don't have time to run around town and I realize the item will arrive tomorrow if I click two buttons.

It’s not just running around town, but that running around town doesn’t result in success. I live in a city of 100,000, between two major metropolitan areas, and there are a lot of things I just can’t find in certain colors, sizes, specifics. 

Yup. We don't have teacher stores by us anymore. So if I need something for my classroom, I tend to go to amazon because the closest teacher's store is over an hour away. And yeah, some stores (like the Dollar Store) may have supplies when it is back to school time, but if I need something in the middle of winter, Amazon is my only option.

[wawa]

Sept 28, 2023 5:28:41 GMT -5 fancynewbeesly said:

Sept 27, 2023 13:08:12 GMT -5 rubytue said:

It’s not just running around town, but that running around town doesn’t result in success. I live in a city of 100,000, between two major metropolitan areas, and there are a lot of things I just can’t find in certain colors, sizes, specifics. 

Yup. We don't have teacher stores by us anymore. So if I need something for my classroom, I tend to go to amazon because the closest teacher's store is over an hour away. And yeah, some stores (like the Dollar Store) may have supplies when it is back to school time, but if I need something in the middle of winter, Amazon is my only option.

this is 100% NOT on topic, but....teacher stores?  that's a thing?  Like, yall dn't just shop at Michaels and Staples and the Dollar store?

[statgirl]

Sept 28, 2023 16:04:13 GMT -5 wawa said:

Sept 28, 2023 5:28:41 GMT -5 fancynewbeesly said:

Yup. We don't have teacher stores by us anymore. So if I need something for my classroom, I tend to go to amazon because the closest teacher's store is over an hour away. And yeah, some stores (like the Dollar Store) may have supplies when it is back to school time, but if I need something in the middle of winter, Amazon is my only option.

this is 100% NOT on topic, but....teacher stores?  that's a thing?  Like, yall dn't just shop at Michaels and Staples and the Dollar store?

Our former teacher store carried things like bulletin borders and classroom posters on parts of speech and math operations. They also had other reusable supplies and organizational stuff. I’m out of the k12 game but it was fun to wander when I first started to make my room less institutional.

[pixy0stix]

Sept 28, 2023 5:28:41 GMT -5 fancynewbeesly said:

Sept 27, 2023 13:08:12 GMT -5 rubytue said:

It’s not just running around town, but that running around town doesn’t result in success. I live in a city of 100,000, between two major metropolitan areas, and there are a lot of things I just can’t find in certain colors, sizes, specifics. 

Yup. We don't have teacher stores by us anymore. So if I need something for my classroom, I tend to go to amazon because the closest teacher's store is over an hour away. And yeah, some stores (like the Dollar Store) may have supplies when it is back to school time, but if I need something in the middle of winter, Amazon is my only option.

Have you thought about using target? Many of the sellers on Amazon are on target as well.

[pinkdutchtulips]

Sept 28, 2023 16:04:13 GMT -5 wawa said:

Sept 28, 2023 5:28:41 GMT -5 fancynewbeesly said:

Yup. We don't have teacher stores by us anymore. So if I need something for my classroom, I tend to go to amazon because the closest teacher's store is over an hour away. And yeah, some stores (like the Dollar Store) may have supplies when it is back to school time, but if I need something in the middle of winter, Amazon is my only option.

this is 100% NOT on topic, but....teacher stores?  that's a thing?  Like, yall dn't just shop at Michaels and Staples and the Dollar store?

Lakeshore Learning is a HUGE chain when it comes to teacher supplies.

[wawa]

Sept 28, 2023 16:13:53 GMT -5 statgirl said:

Sept 28, 2023 16:04:13 GMT -5 wawa said:

this is 100% NOT on topic, but....teacher stores?  that's a thing?  Like, yall dn't just shop at Michaels and Staples and the Dollar store?

Our former teacher store carried things like bulletin borders and classroom posters on parts of speech and math operations. They also had other reusable supplies and organizational stuff. I’m out of the k12 game but it was fun to wander when I first started to make my room less institutional.

well this is fascinating.  I love special stores. (my personal crack is restaurant supply) Stupid amazon killing everything.

[suburbanzookeeper]

I sold on Amazon as a small seller for almost a decade - Amazon absolutely participated in price manipulation within their market. It wasn't uncommon for me to wake up to listings being deactivated because they felt like they weren't priced within "their competitive model" and would make pricing suggestions. They have full access to your data, your keywords, your safety spec sheets, etc. if you are manufacturing yourself or sourcing from a manufacturer and then, if popular enough, they bring it to market on their own.

And if you want to deep dive on Amazon crazy when it comes to their contracts and are on Tik Tok, take a peek at amy_k_nelson's videos/play list. www.seattletimes.com/business/after-3-years-seattles-amy-nelson-still-fighting-amazon-and-doj/

[fancynewbeesly]

Sept 28, 2023 17:09:55 GMT -5 pinkdutchtulips said:

Sept 28, 2023 16:04:13 GMT -5 wawa said:

this is 100% NOT on topic, but....teacher stores?  that's a thing?  Like, yall dn't just shop at Michaels and Staples and the Dollar store?

Lakeshore Learning is a HUGE chain when it comes to teacher supplies.

I LOVE Lakeshore learning. Mine is over an hour away so not practical if I need something last minute.

[jeaniebueller]

Sept 28, 2023 16:04:13 GMT -5 wawa said:

Sept 28, 2023 5:28:41 GMT -5 fancynewbeesly said:

Yup. We don't have teacher stores by us anymore. So if I need something for my classroom, I tend to go to amazon because the closest teacher's store is over an hour away. And yeah, some stores (like the Dollar Store) may have supplies when it is back to school time, but if I need something in the middle of winter, Amazon is my only option.

this is 100% NOT on topic, but....teacher stores?  that's a thing?  Like, yall dn't just shop at Michaels and Staples and the Dollar store?

we used to have a teacher store too, they would carry a lot of educational posters and stuff to go on bulletin boards, workbooks, other fun stuff. It was always a cool store to go in even if you weren't a teacher.

[sent]

I love Lakeshore Learning and I'm not a teacher. I remember there being other small business teacher stores I would stumble across in random plazas. I don't know if these exist anymore. Seems like a small niche that would be crushed by Amazon much like the old stationery stores from back in the day that don't really exist anymore either. My parents asked me to restock their very specific pens and as much as I support shopping retail and try to minimize any shopping from Amazon, I had to breakdown and order their pens on Amazon. My dad wanted a few red sharpies and my mother wanted more Pilot G2 pens but in purple only.

Just read the article and can I say how impressed I am that a 34 year old woman named Lina Khan is the chair and leading this. That sounds like a very impressive position to have earned so early in her career and especially as a brown woman.

I also didn't know that the government would go after Amazon for this - "A third case, alleging the company makes it unnecessarily difficult to cancel Prime subscriptions, is in litigation." Is it really the government's job if a consumer can't read the fine print and figure out how to cancel? I'm not siding with Amazon here, but this seems like that whole "government intrusion into private business" thing that bootstrappers like to complain about.