UN report says world is racing to well past warming limit

[pixy0stix]

apnews.com/article/climate-change-carbon-emissions-global-warming-98b96100fca83641c77a52928e303e10

UN report says world is racing to well past warming limit as carbon emissions rise instead of plunge

[pixy0stix]

Tis the season for people to post about sections of their pre-lit trees being out and being too lazy to find the burned out bulb, or restring with other lights, so they're getting new trees. Every time I see those posts, I just think how that's a microscopic example of how our waste got us here.

[wanderingback]

Nov 22, 2023 17:59:50 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Tis the season for people to post about sections of their pre-lit trees being out and being too lazy to find the burned out bulb, or restring with other lights, so they're getting new trees. Every time I see those posts, I just think how that's a microscopic example of how our waste got us here.

I mean the holiday season in general…
But I’m a Scrooge who doesn’t do presents.

[sent]

Nov 22, 2023 17:59:50 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Tis the season for people to post about sections of their pre-lit trees being out and being too lazy to find the burned out bulb, or restring with other lights, so they're getting new trees. Every time I see those posts, I just think how that's a microscopic example of how our waste got us here.

Capitalism or something got us to this point where it’s cheaper and faster to buy a new tree than fix the old one. We all know it doesn’t stop at trees, it’s nearly impossible or financially not worthwhile to repair most things these days. It will take a major culture shift to go back to the days of austerity and less consumerism.

[Deleted]

Nov 22, 2023 19:30:04 GMT -5 sent said:

Nov 22, 2023 17:59:50 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Tis the season for people to post about sections of their pre-lit trees being out and being too lazy to find the burned out bulb, or restring with other lights, so they're getting new trees. Every time I see those posts, I just think how that's a microscopic example of how our waste got us here.

Capitalism or something got us to this point where it’s cheaper and faster to buy a new tree than fix the old one. We all know it doesn’t stop at trees, it’s nearly impossible or financially not worthwhile to repair most things these days. It will take a major culture shift to go back to the days of austerity and less consumerism.

All of this…AND major corporations have really screwed over the environment in pursuit of profit. Individual behavior changes are important, but they are a drop in the bucket compared to the impact if major corporations were to clean up their acts.

[pixy0stix]

Nov 22, 2023 20:16:40 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Nov 22, 2023 19:30:04 GMT -5 sent said:

Capitalism or something got us to this point where it’s cheaper and faster to buy a new tree than fix the old one. We all know it doesn’t stop at trees, it’s nearly impossible or financially not worthwhile to repair most things these days. It will take a major culture shift to go back to the days of austerity and less consumerism.

All of this…AND major corporations have really screwed over the environment in pursuit of profit. Individual behavior changes are important, but they are a drop in the bucket compared to the impact if major corporations were to clean up their acts.

And round and round we go. Yes, this is a part but the united states over consumerism and wholesale love of capitalism got us here. Our country, our lifestyle, is how we got here. The changes that we have to make now start and ends with ordinary citizens.

Take a look at travel this weekend. No one is forcing people to travel in record numbers. People are doing it because they want to and they give no shits.

Look at how many people went on cruises this year, which is probably the most environmentally damaging type of trip (and not just from carbon emissions) alone.

Every single aspect of our lives has to change.

[pixy0stix]

I think I'd be more sympathetic to the "it's the corporations!" argument if I didn't listen to people whinge every time they're told they have to give up something.

Electric cars - they don't go as far as people want them to. Ok, then you have to change your lifestyle to fit the transportation. But that's not how people see it. They want to keep their gigantic extended cab trucks and drive as far as they want when they want. That is wholly a lifestyle choice and has nothing to do with manufacturing.

People being told to stop building mcmansions/live smaller and space things closer in neighborhoods - can't do that because that isn't the American dream.

Stop eating red meat (period) - nuh uh, not gonna give up my hamburger.

[arehopsveggies]

Nov 22, 2023 17:59:50 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Tis the season for people to post about sections of their pre-lit trees being out and being too lazy to find the burned out bulb, or restring with other lights, so they're getting new trees. Every time I see those posts, I just think how that's a microscopic example of how our waste got us here.

I was just thinking about this. My tree is a hand-me-down and is 25 ish years old. It is soooo broken we couldn’t face using it for another year- branches snapping off as we tried to build it- But I was sad buying a new one thinking it won’t last nearly as long

Or we just this week replaced a 37 year old rowing machine… will the new one last 37 years? Probably not. Nothing lasts and we are “supposed” to act like all our stuff is disposable.

[sent]

Nov 22, 2023 20:30:48 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I think I'd be more sympathetic to the "it's the corporations!" argument if I didn't listen to people whinge every time they're told they have to give up something.

Electric cars - they don't go as far as people want them to. Ok, then you have to change your lifestyle to fit the transportation. But that's not how people see it. They want to keep their gigantic extended cab trucks and drive as far as they want when they want. That is wholly a lifestyle choice and has nothing to do with manufacturing.

People being told to stop building mcmansions/live smaller and space things closer in neighborhoods - can't do that because that isn't the American dream.

Stop eating red meat (period) - nuh uh, not gonna give up my hamburger.

There's a price for everything. If there are fewer extended cab trucks being manufactured, they will become more expensive and people will be forced to adapt or go broke. 

It's more profitable for a builder to build a McMansion in the states where there is still room to do so. Here in NJ building new is not always the preferred choice because the average person who would choose to build a McMansion is going to have a long commute to have that house. Though COVID may have changed this equation with more people being able to WFH, I'm not sure. However, contractors are very busy here all the time fixing all the old houses. 

If red meat becomes more scarce and thus more expensive, people will find other things to eat. 

Holiday travel was always a thing, remember Home Alone? We don't have to take cruises. If they're priced high enough, people won't.

I have to agree with @villainv that corporations have ruined a lot since I grew up and not for the better IMO. For starters in the US, we could stop making and importing cheap Chinese crap. Companies and entrepreneurs will be forced to find new revenue streams. People will adapt when they can't get their cheap Christmas trees with overnight delivery. I could make a pledge to not buy cheap stuff and make do with what I have, but that's not going to be enough to move the needle in a meaningful way given we are basically out of control with our consumption as a society.

[jlt19]

I’m very curious who is “lobbying” corporations to make people go back to the office. I know Amazon forced people to move close to a hub and now my company (30k worldwide) is making everyone go back 3 days a week next year (previously 2).

I don’t really understand how that goes along with our goal of being more environmentally conscious, but I guess since they aren’t paying for our vehicles or gas, it doesn’t count.

[msmerymac]

Nov 22, 2023 23:53:09 GMT -5 sent said:

Nov 22, 2023 20:30:48 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I think I'd be more sympathetic to the "it's the corporations!" argument if I didn't listen to people whinge every time they're told they have to give up something.

Electric cars - they don't go as far as people want them to. Ok, then you have to change your lifestyle to fit the transportation. But that's not how people see it. They want to keep their gigantic extended cab trucks and drive as far as they want when they want. That is wholly a lifestyle choice and has nothing to do with manufacturing.

People being told to stop building mcmansions/live smaller and space things closer in neighborhoods - can't do that because that isn't the American dream.

Stop eating red meat (period) - nuh uh, not gonna give up my hamburger.

There's a price for everything. If there are fewer extended cab trucks being manufactured, they will become more expensive and people will be forced to adapt or go broke. 

It's more profitable for a builder to build a McMansion in the states where there is still room to do so. Here in NJ building new is not always the preferred choice because the average person who would choose to build a McMansion is going to have a long commute to have that house. Though COVID may have changed this equation with more people being able to WFH, I'm not sure. However, contractors are very busy here all the time fixing all the old houses. 

If red meat becomes more scarce and thus more expensive, people will find other things to eat. 

Holiday travel was always a thing, remember Home Alone? We don't have to take cruises. If they're priced high enough, people won't.

I have to agree with @villainv that corporations have ruined a lot since I grew up and not for the better IMO. For starters in the US, we could stop making and importing cheap Chinese crap. Companies and entrepreneurs will be forced to find new revenue streams. People will adapt when they can't get their cheap Christmas trees with overnight delivery. I could make a pledge to not buy cheap stuff and make do with what I have, but that's not going to be enough to move the needle in a meaningful way given we are basically out of control with our consumption as a society.

Ah yes, Home Alone, that relatable tale of a family of 14 that travels from Chicago to Paris for Christmas.

I grew up in upstate NY and my dad’s sister and her family lived in Utah. Sometimes we’d see them every other year. Sometimes they’d take a road trip back to visit. It definitely wasn’t traveling for every holiday.

When I lived in CA and got married, we did spend a LOT of vacation time and energy and money visiting family in the northeast, which is one reason I’m glad to be back on this side of the country.

[penguingrrl]

Nov 23, 2023 18:14:31 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

I’m very curious who is “lobbying” corporations to make people go back to the office. I know Amazon forced people to move close to a hub and now my company (30k worldwide) is making everyone go back 3 days a week next year (previously 2).

I don’t really understand how that goes along with our goal of being more environmentally conscious, but I guess since they aren’t paying for our vehicles or gas, it doesn’t count.

I’ve had the same wonder. Hs company forced everyone back in 3 days and is moving to 4 soon and IMO it’s an environmental travesty to force people who were working well from home to commute unnecessarily. Not to mention the waste the office itself is (our house is never actually empty of humans, so we can’t lower our heat/turn off our a/c during the day to account for the wasted resources in two buildings instead of H being home). It seems utterly irresponsible to require in office for jobs where it isn’t necessary.

[jlt19]

Nov 23, 2023 20:55:36 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Nov 23, 2023 18:14:31 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

I’m very curious who is “lobbying” corporations to make people go back to the office. I know Amazon forced people to move close to a hub and now my company (30k worldwide) is making everyone go back 3 days a week next year (previously 2).

I don’t really understand how that goes along with our goal of being more environmentally conscious, but I guess since they aren’t paying for our vehicles or gas, it doesn’t count.

I’ve had the same wonder. Hs company forced everyone back in 3 days and is moving to 4 soon and IMO it’s an environmental travesty to force people who were working well from home to commute unnecessarily. Not to mention the waste the office itself is (our house is never actually empty of humans, so we can’t lower our heat/turn off our a/c during the day to account for the wasted resources in two buildings instead of H being home). It seems utterly irresponsible to require in office for jobs where it isn’t necessary.

Yes! I actually spent hours yesterday analyzing my daily/hourly usage to try to pick the best “rate” plan from my electric company. (Not a symptom of my ADHD useless tangents at all…). But it was enlightening, lol. Maybe I should buy a SUPER smart thermostat that will let me change the schedule daily instead of just week vs weekend.

We have a “main campus” nearby that thousands work in. The company owns the building, it’s not going anywhere. But I work for the “shared services” and we’re in a leased office building close by campus. Rumor was, we were moving over in 2024, and subleasing our building until the lease expired in 2026. It was going to be a challenge because of the spacing and “hoteling” but at only 2 days, doable.

There’s no way now unless they’re going to do a bunch of layoffs, which I suppose isn’t impossible. Or they’ll just keep us in a separate building (please) and keep the lease.

Maybe there’s some real estate developers/property manager lobbyist organization I’m not familiar with that has a lot of clout?

[macmars45]

Oh, and people don't need multiple houses. Stop it.

[pixy0stix]

My friends, when I list off examples I really don't need to know how it doesn't apply to you. It applies to, again, the US citizenry in general. Although the cruise thing was a phenomenon that several people from here and in my IRL participated in. It's like people are purposefully trying to find the most damaging things they can do after the pandemic and justifying it because they could't leave their houses for a year.

As to who is trying to get people to go back to work - what I keep hearing/reading is that cities aren't pivoting very fast and can't think of ways to drive consumers into areas that previously relied on cubicle farms to generate tax and sales revenue. (If someone can find the "won't someone think of the deli's" thread we had, I think there's a bunch of links there.) Business real estate has also tanked, and real estate is a bigger lobbyist than I think most people realize.

ETA article from 2021 talking about how large the real estate lobby is - thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/536082-us-chamber-nudged-out-of-top-lobbying-spender-spot-for-first-time-in-20/

[sent]

Nov 23, 2023 18:43:42 GMT -5 msmerymac said:

Ah yes, Home Alone, that relatable tale of a family of 14 that travels from Chicago to Paris for Christmas.

I grew up in upstate NY and my dad’s sister and her family lived in Utah. Sometimes we’d see them every other year. Sometimes they’d take a road trip back to visit. It definitely wasn’t traveling for every holiday.

When I lived in CA and got married, we did spend a LOT of vacation time and energy and money visiting family in the northeast, which is one reason I’m glad to be back on this side of the country.

My Home Alone comment was partly in jest, but the holidays have long been heavily traveled weekends. I found a report on the DOT website from 20 years ago that said the same and I'm certain AAA has tracked this phenomenon for decades. It goes back to the same thing - make it unaffordable if we don't want to encourage people to utilize it. When we were kids, my parents could only afford to take us back to the motherland every few years to visit our grandparents. Immigrants who come now take their kids back every summer. I know before COVID, the price of a ticket didn't change much from when I was a kid. It was still $1000 - $1500 for an economy ticket which is a lot now but was an absolute fortune in the 80s. 

Capitalism. If it's unaffordable, people will stop utilizing it. Air travel, gas guzzling cars, luxury home builds, etc. etc.

Yesterday I saw a Thanksgiving post from a colleague that is financially better off than me by millions. Her family most likely owns some inherited China or she likely even her own set aka - they can afford regular plates. She posted the 12 of them eating their Thanksgiving meals on holiday-themed disposable plates from Walmart, the exact same plates I bought for the @@@@thanksgiving class party at pre-school. They were all standing in their giant kitchen with 2 sinks, at least 1 dishwasher, and 4 teenage/college aged able bodies kids who could definitely wash some dishes. But importing disposable plates that we buy at Walmart and then throw out is infinitely easier and cheaper and less work. Ordinarily I would've just scrolled by, but this post reminds me of the excessive consumption that we don't care about as we ruin the environment in the process. 

[pixy0stix]

We shouldn't have been traveling like we traveled 20 years ago. I don't understand this tangent at all. We shouldn't have been living this lifestyle for the past 50 years.

[sent]

Nov 24, 2023 10:14:48 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

My friends, when I list off examples I really don't need to know how it doesn't apply to you. It applies to, again, the US citizenry in general. Although the cruise thing was a phenomenon that several people from here and in my IRL participated in. It's like people are purposefully trying to find the most damaging things they can do after the pandemic and justifying it because they could't leave their houses for a year.

So how do we change our habits in the US?

I took 2 cruises this year. Guilty. Cruising would not have been on our radar except we were invited to join friends on the first one so we did. My parents went with us on the second one and oved the entire experience of spending time with the entire family. For a "once in a few years" type of family experience, I could afford it. Our lives would've been fine without the cruises too but the ships will still sail whether we are on them or not. The cruise industry is out of control, building bigger and bigger ships to keep attracting people to them. 

[sent]

Nov 24, 2023 10:23:56 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

We shouldn't have been traveling like we traveled 20 years ago. I don't understand this tangent at all. We shouldn't have been living this lifestyle for the past 50 years.

It's not a tangent. My point was that holiday travel has always been a thing since car travel became a thing. It's not a newish phenomenon. Plane tickets that are "as cheap as bus tickets" have probably made the environmental impact worse. 

[pixy0stix]

Nov 24, 2023 10:30:24 GMT -5 sent said:

Nov 24, 2023 10:14:48 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

My friends, when I list off examples I really don't need to know how it doesn't apply to you. It applies to, again, the US citizenry in general. Although the cruise thing was a phenomenon that several people from here and in my IRL participated in. It's like people are purposefully trying to find the most damaging things they can do after the pandemic and justifying it because they could't leave their houses for a year.

So how do we change our habits in the US?

I took 2 cruises this year. Guilty. Cruising would not have been on our radar except we were invited to join friends on the first one so we did. My parents went with us on the second one and oved the entire experience of spending time with the entire family. For a "once in a few years" type of family experience, I could afford it. Our lives would've been fine without the cruises too but the ships will still sail whether we are on them or not. The cruise industry is out of control, building bigger and bigger ships to keep attracting people to them. 

I'm super cranky this morning so excuse this short answer - we.stop.doing.things. I don't care about *reasons* for cruising. I just keep thinking, "If the bridge industries 'offered a good deal' to jump off the bridge, you'd probably do it." (You being general.)

What do you think is going to happen when the entire world breaks out into a war over resources? People are still going to cruise for shits and giggles? We are at end times. I really can't stress that enough.  People are dying at Taylor Swift concerts from record breaking heat, but no one is batting an eye. I'm arguing on the internet that people can't take personal responsibility for their actions because they're being given "a good deal". Fuck.

[basilosaurus]

Nov 22, 2023 20:30:48 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I think I'd be more sympathetic to the "it's the corporations!" argument if I didn't listen to people whinge every time they're told they have to give up something.

Electric cars - they don't go as far as people want them to. Ok, then you have to change your lifestyle to fit the transportation. But that's not how people see it. They want to keep their gigantic extended cab trucks and drive as far as they want when they want. That is wholly a lifestyle choice and has nothing to do with manufacturing.

People being told to stop building mcmansions/live smaller and space things closer in neighborhoods - can't do that because that isn't the American dream.

Stop eating red meat (period) - nuh uh, not gonna give up my hamburger.

I can hear what you're saying while also looking at so much corporate destruction. 

Some of it is a result of living where we can afford, and that's corporate. It may be far from family. I'm clearly ok with living far away. Am I to be ashamed for eating cow a few times a year? I know that's not your intention to shame that. Should people be ashamed for living in affordable, not mcmansion, distance for work? I will rant all day about giant cars, but I will give people grace for getting the car that gets them to work to pay for their coupe. That's just the unforunate way of living in America. Drive too far. And your car is blamed. Meanwhile the corporations can polute as much as they want.

[pixy0stix]

Nov 24, 2023 10:46:34 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Nov 22, 2023 20:30:48 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I think I'd be more sympathetic to the "it's the corporations!" argument if I didn't listen to people whinge every time they're told they have to give up something.

Electric cars - they don't go as far as people want them to. Ok, then you have to change your lifestyle to fit the transportation. But that's not how people see it. They want to keep their gigantic extended cab trucks and drive as far as they want when they want. That is wholly a lifestyle choice and has nothing to do with manufacturing.

People being told to stop building mcmansions/live smaller and space things closer in neighborhoods - can't do that because that isn't the American dream.

Stop eating red meat (period) - nuh uh, not gonna give up my hamburger.

I can hear what you're saying while also looking at so much corporate destruction. 

Some of it is a result of living where we can afford, and that's corporate. It may be far from family. I'm clearly ok with living far away. Am I to be ashamed for eating cow a few times a year? I know that's not your intention to shame that. Should people be ashamed for living in affordable, not mcmansion, distance for work? I will rant all day about giant cars, but I will give people grace for getting the car that gets them to work to pay for their coupe. That's just the unforunate way of living in America. Drive too far. And your car is blamed. Meanwhile the corporations can polute as much as they want.

In short, American manufacturing shifted overseas because of the American appetite for cheap goods. Chicken and egg, round and round we go. Individual people are driving corporate decisions, and corporate decisions are driving individual choices.

[sent]

Nov 24, 2023 10:46:17 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Nov 24, 2023 10:30:24 GMT -5 sent said:

So how do we change our habits in the US?

I took 2 cruises this year. Guilty. Cruising would not have been on our radar except we were invited to join friends on the first one so we did. My parents went with us on the second one and oved the entire experience of spending time with the entire family. For a "once in a few years" type of family experience, I could afford it. Our lives would've been fine without the cruises too but the ships will still sail whether we are on them or not. The cruise industry is out of control, building bigger and bigger ships to keep attracting people to them. 

I'm super cranky this morning so excuse this short answer - we.stop.doing.things. I don't care about *reasons* for cruising. I just keep thinking, "If the bridge industries 'offered a good deal' to jump off the bridge, you'd probably do it." (You being general.)

What do you think is going to happen when the entire world breaks out into a war over resources? People are still going to cruise for shits and giggles? We are at end times. I really can't stress that enough.  People are dying at Taylor Swift concerts from record breaking heat, but no one is batting an eye. I'm arguing on the internet that people can't take personal responsibility for their actions because they're being given "a good deal". Fuck.

I hear you. This requires a huge culture shift. People lost their minds over toilet paper shortages during COVID. I remember feeling a little panic that the pasta shelves were empty. They didn't cruise because it wasn't available. People found other ways to entertain themselves - baking bread, starting a garden, etc. I think we (as in this board) know that the average American lives for the now and doesn't care about consequences. 

Our leaders need to lead and they've been bought out by corps and their lobbyists to do things not in our best interests. And here we are. 

[sent]

Nov 24, 2023 10:59:45 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

In short, American manufacturing shifted overseas because of the American appetite for cheap goods. Chicken and egg, round and round we go. Individual people are driving corporate decisions, and corporate decisions are driving individual choices.

It also shifted because profit$$$. As we're seeing with the minimum wage problems, humans are the most expensive part of every process. Shift overseas, instant access to cheaper humans. Use cheaper humans to make more cheap stuff quickly, send it back to the motherland (USA) and sell sell sell.

I admit that I don't know the politics behind us and China that well. Is it possible to decrease our dependence on cheap crap with import taxes or something? Or will the thought of it just be lobbied away. I am aware that we depend on Chinese imported parts for things we need like car parts and phone parts and those things are more expensive to fit into our budgets to begin with, but we certainly don't need an abundance of cheap Thanksgiving themed plates and fake Christmas trees. 

[wanderingback]

People are only going to change their ways when forced to do so, and even then people will still find ways to get what they want. It is rather bleak.

Of course corporations are to blame but people could take some responsibility. I do travel (way less these days now that i’m more aware of the implications), but I will never ever go on a cruise since they are very very environmentally unfriendly. I don’t care that the cruise would still happen even if i’m not on it, if people boycotted them, then the industry wouldn’t exist. Cruises didn’t happen during the height of the pandemic and people survived.

That’s just 1 example since a cruise is purely a want and not a need, but people still have to defend/make excuses.

[sent]

Nov 24, 2023 12:55:49 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

People are only going to change their ways when forced to do so, and even then people will still find ways to get what they want. It is rather bleak.

Of course corporations are to blame but people could take some responsibility. I do travel (way less these days now that i’m more aware of the implications), but I will never ever go on a cruise since they are very very environmentally unfriendly. I don’t care that the cruise would still happen even if i’m not on it, if people boycotted them, then the industry wouldn’t exist. Cruises didn’t happen during the height of the pandemic and people survived.

That’s just 1 example since a cruise is purely a want and not a need, but people still have to defend/make excuses.

So you won't take a cruise. I only shop at Amazon when they carry something I can't get anywhere else. Small changes like this won't get us anywhere. The cruise industry is on overdrive, Amazon continues to profit hand over fist. They amount to unpopular opinions when considered up against our culture as a whole. 

In my adult lifetime, I haven't seen any boycotting of wants at a local level be effective in making big changes. Broad scale change seems to only happened when legislated. My state banned all plastic grocery bags in May 2022. There was complaining before it happened. There were articles how the reusable plastic bags were just as bad as the plastic grocery bags since there is a cost to making them and they don't last forever. Personally, I have adapted and barely have plastic grocery bags around in my house anymore whereas before we were always trying to get rid of huge piles of them. I'm sure millions of others in my state have done the same and I'm hoping that a small change like that from a state of 9 million people massively reducing their use of plastic grocery bags helps overall. I remember McDonalds stopped using their styrofoam containers when I was a kid so this discussion made me curious if that was legislated or not. Google tells me they stopped in 1990 due to pressure from environmental groups and from their consumers. Does any corporation really care about these kinds of environmental decisions these days if it gets in the way of shareholder profits? Styrofoam is only now being banned state by state in the last few years. Corporate culture has to change as much as American habits. 

[heyyounotyouyou]

It’s a chicken and egg scenario for sure but what I do know is that I can’t change big corporations (of course voting helps) but I can change myself. So I change what I can 100% control, which is my actions. No cruises, have a recyclable bag everywhere I go, walk instead of drive when feasible, don’t eat meat, etc.

[wanderingback]

Nov 24, 2023 14:53:27 GMT -5 sent said:

Nov 24, 2023 12:55:49 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

People are only going to change their ways when forced to do so, and even then people will still find ways to get what they want. It is rather bleak.

Of course corporations are to blame but people could take some responsibility. I do travel (way less these days now that i’m more aware of the implications), but I will never ever go on a cruise since they are very very environmentally unfriendly. I don’t care that the cruise would still happen even if i’m not on it, if people boycotted them, then the industry wouldn’t exist. Cruises didn’t happen during the height of the pandemic and people survived.

That’s just 1 example since a cruise is purely a want and not a need, but people still have to defend/make excuses.

So you won't take a cruise. I only shop at Amazon when they carry something I can't get anywhere else. Small changes like this won't get us anywhere. The cruise industry is on overdrive, Amazon continues to profit hand over fist. They amount to unpopular opinions when considered up against our culture as a whole. 

In my adult lifetime, I haven't seen any boycotting of wants at a local level be effective in making big changes. Broad scale change seems to only happened when legislated. My state banned all plastic grocery bags in May 2022. There was complaining before it happened. There were articles how the reusable plastic bags were just as bad as the plastic grocery bags since there is a cost to making them and they don't last forever. Personally, I have adapted and barely have plastic grocery bags around in my house anymore whereas before we were always trying to get rid of huge piles of them. I'm sure millions of others in my state have done the same and I'm hoping that a small change like that from a state of 9 million people massively reducing their use of plastic grocery bags helps overall. I remember McDonalds stopped using their styrofoam containers when I was a kid so this discussion made me curious if that was legislated or not. Google tells me they stopped in 1990 due to pressure from environmental groups and from their consumers. Does any corporation really care about these kinds of environmental decisions these days if it gets in the way of shareholder profits? Styrofoam is only now being banned state by state in the last few years. Corporate culture has to change as much as American habits. 

I’m not sure why you brought Amazon in because I’ve said multiple times that I don’t shop online at Amazon and I try not to shop online at all in general. So not sure if you were trying to say I won’t cruise but I shop at Amazon?

Anyway, all I know is I can only control what I do. Individual change can absolutely lead to culture change if people follow through.

[sent]

Nov 24, 2023 16:54:13 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

I’m not sure why you brought Amazon in because I’ve said multiple times that I don’t shop online at Amazon and I try not to shop online at all in general. So not sure if you were trying to say I won’t cruise but I shop at Amazon?

Anyway, all I know is I can only control what I do. Individual change can absolutely lead to culture change if people follow through.

Your example of an individual behavior that is bad for the environment and you choose to avoid is to not take a cruise. My example of a similar behavior that is not good for the environment and I choose to avoid is to use Amazon as a last resort retailer. I didn't know what your beliefs about Amazon were until your above post so the statements were not related. They were just 2 different examples, one for you, one for me. Similar to you, I also try to not shop online if I know I can easily get the item at a retailer store; related I also won't do food delivery services that function on an app at home and won't allow them at work. These behaviors are the minority. 

[basilosaurus]

It's hard not to feel hopeless despair. Sure, I can bring a reuseable bag to the grocery, and I do, but it's really probably a miniscule drop in the bucket. I do appreciate the previous country banned plastic bags in 2020, and there was a fuss as well as hilarious pictures of what people used instead, but there was minimal fuss actually adapting to it. Whether that's actually a significant degree better apparently is debateable.

We can prevent a walmart from moving into the neighborhood, but we cannot prevent walmarts from existing or amazon, and they'll gladly buy up politicians. And not be properly taxed. It's similar to my despair I feel about the nra and any gun legislation.

I guess in my current mood I'm similar to those who might say why bother voting, one vote doesn't matter especially in [insert district]. I hear that in me, and I hate it. But, 'tis the season to be dour about everything. Happy grinchmas!