Trump Has Master Plan to Destroy "Deep State"

[waverly]

Here is the gift link, I hope I did this right www.nytimes.com/2023/11/27/opinion/trump-deep-state-schedule-f.html?unlocked_article_code=1.CE0.DgcO.7uyOgmTIkr-W&smid=url-share

I'm hoping to discuss how private citizens like us can help preserve our democracy.  Getting inspiration from this article, time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/

What are the best ways, organizations to donate to, or volunteer for, to shore up democracy?  I already work at a polling place, so we already help facilitate early voting and election day voting.   

[lilac05]

One of the most consistent things I see that people NEED to do is vote in primaries.

(Saving my rant for the idiocy that is the Iowa Caucuses for another day.)

[sonrisa]

Dec 1, 2023 9:10:38 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

One of the most consistent things I see that people NEED to do is vote in primaries.

(Saving my rant for the idiocy that is the Iowa Caucuses for another day.)

Voting in primaries is a great plan in general. Can you explain why you think it's so important for defeating trump specifically?

[waverly]

Dec 2, 2023 9:57:24 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Dec 1, 2023 9:10:38 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

One of the most consistent things I see that people NEED to do is vote in primaries.

(Saving my rant for the idiocy that is the Iowa Caucuses for another day.)

Voting in primaries is a great plan in general. Can you explain why you think it's so important for defeating trump specifically?

My only thought was maybe she thought that Republicans could pick a better candidate than Trump which would be ideal. To be clear I don’t like many of them but none of them are trying to destroy our democracy although I think DeSantis’s rhetoric is mirroring some of Trumps.

[sonrisa]

Dec 2, 2023 13:59:19 GMT -5 waverly said:

Dec 2, 2023 9:57:24 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Voting in primaries is a great plan in general. Can you explain why you think it's so important for defeating trump specifically?

My only thought was maybe she thought that Republicans could pick a better candidate than Trump which would be ideal. To be clear I don’t like many of them but none of them are trying to destroy our democracy although I think DeSantis’s rhetoric is mirroring some of Trumps.

I agree that there are better candidates (awful people who still are less toxic than Trump). It just seems to me that most Republicans don't want them. They seem to want Trump overwhelmingly. I guess I'm less hopeful that increasing Republican primary voter turnout would have any effect on the outcome.

[lilac05]

Dec 2, 2023 15:07:55 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Dec 2, 2023 13:59:19 GMT -5 waverly said:

My only thought was maybe she thought that Republicans could pick a better candidate than Trump which would be ideal. To be clear I don’t like many of them but none of them are trying to destroy our democracy although I think DeSantis’s rhetoric is mirroring some of Trumps.

I agree that there are better candidates (awful people who still are less toxic than Trump). It just seems to me that most Republicans don't want them. They seem to want Trump overwhelmingly. I guess I'm less hopeful that increasing Republican primary voter turnout would have any effect on the outcome.

I’m not actually sure that’s what the overwhelming number of Republicans truly want, though. I live in a pretty purple area of my state and know a lot of Republicans…and very few would like to vote for him again. I know what the polls say…but polls and less and less reliable these days as people don’t answer their phones or respond to surveys. The people who vote in primaries are statistically more likely to be on the far ends of the political spectrum. If all registered Republicans actually showed up to vote in the primaries, I really don’t think Trump win. But they don’t show up…and then feel stuck voting for him in the general election, as many would never vote for a Democrat, no matter what.

However, I don’t think that applies to Iowa because it’s a public popularity contest here. He will win handedly here, not necessarily because he’s favored but because of peer pressure and the nastiness of others towards anyone who dares speak out against Trump. People just won’t show up, and I can’t say that I blame them. Few people are brave enough to actually stand up and put themselves in another literal corner in person, but a private ballot would likely be a different story. I cannot wrap my head around caucuses still being a thing, especially in this political climate.

[jlt19]

Dec 2, 2023 9:57:24 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Dec 1, 2023 9:10:38 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

One of the most consistent things I see that people NEED to do is vote in primaries.

(Saving my rant for the idiocy that is the Iowa Caucuses for another day.)

Voting in primaries is a great plan in general. Can you explain why you think it's so important for defeating trump specifically?

If there’s no Dem primary, then all the Democrats can go out and vote for not Trump?

[mcsangel2]

Dec 2, 2023 17:36:45 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

Dec 2, 2023 9:57:24 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Voting in primaries is a great plan in general. Can you explain why you think it's so important for defeating trump specifically?

If there’s no Dem primary, then all the Democrats can go out and vote for not Trump?

It depends on what state you are in and whether they have open or closed primaries. I live in a state with a closed primary, which means only registered Republicans can vote in the Republican primary.

[penguingrrl]

Dec 2, 2023 17:36:45 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

Dec 2, 2023 9:57:24 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Voting in primaries is a great plan in general. Can you explain why you think it's so important for defeating trump specifically?

If there’s no Dem primary, then all the Democrats can go out and vote for not Trump?

That depends on a few things. My state has closed primaries, so I would have to switch parties something like a month or two before the primary election to be able to vote in a Republican primary. Also, it would mean I couldn’t vote in down ticket races and we have what looks like it will be a very contested senate primary this year.

[sonrisa]

Switching parties (or asking for a cross party ticket at the booth in an open state) just to vote against Trump in a primary has consequences. You can't vote for any state or local primaries in your party. You are also one more voters the republicans can point to show increase in support and "people leaving the Democratic Party" whenever they run the stats.

lilac05 - thanks for clarifying what you are seeing on the ground

[waverly]

Our state allows us to choose the party at the time we vote in the primary. We don’t have to register as Republican or Democrat beforehand or at all. On the machine we would pick one.

I signed up for permanent mail in voting so I would be interested to see what the paper ballet looks like.

[leahcar]

Encourage everyone you know to vote. You’d be surprised how many people sit out everything but the Presidential general election. I truly don’t think the majority of people want Trump. I think the majority of likely Republican primary voters want him. That’s two very different things.

If your state has open primaries, a vote against Trump could help.

I used to live in Tennessee. You can be unaffiliated there and choose a primary. Realistically, the Republican primary there IS the general election. I voted in the Republican primary in 2016 in hopes of anyone but Trump.

There are generally other races here that I do care about so I will likely keep my Dem registration. My neighborhood is very purple so I also put out yard signs and help write postcards. Direct contact from someone “like you” is shown to help turnout and engagement considerably.

[waverly]

www.nytimes.com/2023/12/03/opinion/insurrection-act-trump-president.html?unlocked_article_code=1.DE0.H8TM.VzT5Vrpkmkk0&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Trump plans to use insurrection act right away if elected. I feel like the New York Times is trying to warn us.

Hopefully another gift article.

[jlt19]

Dec 2, 2023 18:21:33 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

Dec 2, 2023 17:36:45 GMT -5 jlt19 said:

If there’s no Dem primary, then all the Democrats can go out and vote for not Trump?

That depends on a few things. My state has closed primaries, so I would have to switch parties something like a month or two before the primary election to be able to vote in a Republican primary. Also, it would mean I couldn’t vote in down ticket races and we have what looks like it will be a very contested senate primary this year.

I forgot other states are different. There’s no going Dem where I’m at, but sonrisa brings up a good point on giving them any sort of “win” thinking they stole someone away from the Democratic Party. NOT TODAY SATAN

[waverly]

Another article in NYT.

www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/us/politics/trump-2025-overview.html?unlocked_article_code=1.DU0.7d8J.CH0yZ7tEQQbZ&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

[chickadee77]

Dec 4, 2023 9:51:21 GMT -5 waverly said:

Another article in NYT.

www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/us/politics/trump-2025-overview.html?unlocked_article_code=1.DU0.7d8J.CH0yZ7tEQQbZ&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Well. That was terrifying to read all in one place.

[Velar Fricative]

This was the scariest piece I've seen, and I've read the others from the NYT posted here....

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/30/trump-dictator-2024-election-robert-kagan/

I agree with everything he said but he left out something. Our turnout seems to be abysmal even for POTUS elections by design. Our government has ensured we'll always have citizens who feel like voting doesn't matter, there's no hope because the whole government sucks so why bother voting, etc. and I fear that will mean the 2024 election will be a disaster, especially with inflation being what it is. I think 2020 might have been an anomaly because of covid.

[waverly]

Dec 4, 2023 13:40:46 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

This was the scariest piece I've seen, and I've read the others from the NYT posted here....

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/30/trump-dictator-2024-election-robert-kagan/

I agree with everything he said but he left out something. Our turnout seems to be abysmal even for POTUS elections by design. Our government has ensured we'll always have citizens who feel like voting doesn't matter, there's no hope because the whole government sucks so why bother voting, etc. and I fear that will mean the 2024 election will be a disaster, especially with inflation being what it is. I think 2020 might have been an anomaly because of covid.

Do you have a gift link? This is behind a paywall for me.

[Velar Fricative]

Dec 4, 2023 15:17:12 GMT -5 waverly said:

Dec 4, 2023 13:40:46 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

This was the scariest piece I've seen, and I've read the others from the NYT posted here....

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/30/trump-dictator-2024-election-robert-kagan/

I agree with everything he said but he left out something. Our turnout seems to be abysmal even for POTUS elections by design. Our government has ensured we'll always have citizens who feel like voting doesn't matter, there's no hope because the whole government sucks so why bother voting, etc. and I fear that will mean the 2024 election will be a disaster, especially with inflation being what it is. I think 2020 might have been an anomaly because of covid.

Do you have a gift link? This is behind a paywall for me.

Sorry, I don't have a subscription but I was somehow able to read this whole article, so if this link isn't working then I don't have another one that could work. 

[underwaterrhymes]

I hope he dies and I feel zero shame about admitting that.

[waverly]

Does anyone know the court schedule?

The only other thing I can think of is if we can get a conviction on time.

[underwaterrhymes]

Dec 4, 2023 15:17:12 GMT -5 waverly said:

Dec 4, 2023 13:40:46 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

This was the scariest piece I've seen, and I've read the others from the NYT posted here....

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/30/trump-dictator-2024-election-robert-kagan/

I agree with everything he said but he left out something. Our turnout seems to be abysmal even for POTUS elections by design. Our government has ensured we'll always have citizens who feel like voting doesn't matter, there's no hope because the whole government sucks so why bother voting, etc. and I fear that will mean the 2024 election will be a disaster, especially with inflation being what it is. I think 2020 might have been an anomaly because of covid.

Do you have a gift link? This is behind a paywall for me.

Here is a gift link:
wapo.st/3R61yZ0

[Jalapeñomel]

Dec 4, 2023 15:49:12 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Dec 4, 2023 15:17:12 GMT -5 waverly said:

Do you have a gift link? This is behind a paywall for me.

Here is a gift link:
wapo.st/3R61yZ0

Dec 4, 2023 15:49:12 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Dec 4, 2023 15:17:12 GMT -5 waverly said:

Do you have a gift link? This is behind a paywall for me.

Here is a gift link:
wapo.st/3R61yZ0

“But if most Americans can go about their daily business, they might not care, just as many Russians and Hungarians do not care.”

And I think a large portion of the population just doesn’t care (at least not right now).

[jlt19]

Dec 4, 2023 17:15:53 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Dec 4, 2023 15:49:12 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Here is a gift link:
wapo.st/3R61yZ0

Dec 4, 2023 15:49:12 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

Here is a gift link:
wapo.st/3R61yZ0

“But if most Americans can go about their daily business, they might not care, just as many Russians and Hungarians do not care.”

And I think a large portion of the population just doesn’t care (at least not right now).

Honestly, I think this is part of the problem with everything. It’s basically the reasoning behind every situation that has less to the destruction of the environment, which is just one more thing that too many people don’t care about.

The more people can hide behind screens, the less community focused we get and the less we care about others needs. Hey, maybe that’s why companies are forcing people back in the office, lol.

[oliverboliverbutt]

Dec 2, 2023 16:04:08 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

Dec 2, 2023 15:07:55 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

I agree that there are better candidates (awful people who still are less toxic than Trump). It just seems to me that most Republicans don't want them. They seem to want Trump overwhelmingly. I guess I'm less hopeful that increasing Republican primary voter turnout would have any effect on the outcome.

I’m not actually sure that’s what the overwhelming number of Republicans truly want, though. I live in a pretty purple area of my state and know a lot of Republicans…and very few would like to vote for him again. I know what the polls say…but polls and less and less reliable these days as people don’t answer their phones or respond to surveys. The people who vote in primaries are statistically more likely to be on the far ends of the political spectrum. If all registered Republicans actually showed up to vote in the primaries, I really don’t think Trump win. But they don’t show up…and then feel stuck voting for him in the general election, as many would never vote for a Democrat, no matter what.

However, I don’t think that applies to Iowa because it’s a public popularity contest here. He will win handedly here, not necessarily because he’s favored but because of peer pressure and the nastiness of others towards anyone who dares speak out against Trump. People just won’t show up, and I can’t say that I blame them. Few people are brave enough to actually stand up and put themselves in another literal corner in person, but a private ballot would likely be a different story. I cannot wrap my head around caucuses still being a thing, especially in this political climate.

I agree wholeheartedly that caucuses are ridiculous and undemocratic... but actually the republican caucus is slightly better than the democrat caucus. Republicans do have a secret ballot, it looks like. It seems like they still have to show up at a particular time and place though. www.iowafarmbureau.com/News/Farmers-Caucus/Learn-how-to-caucus

[wildrice]

Dec 6, 2023 18:43:50 GMT -5 oliverboliverbutt said:

Dec 2, 2023 16:04:08 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I’m not actually sure that’s what the overwhelming number of Republicans truly want, though. I live in a pretty purple area of my state and know a lot of Republicans…and very few would like to vote for him again. I know what the polls say…but polls and less and less reliable these days as people don’t answer their phones or respond to surveys. The people who vote in primaries are statistically more likely to be on the far ends of the political spectrum. If all registered Republicans actually showed up to vote in the primaries, I really don’t think Trump win. But they don’t show up…and then feel stuck voting for him in the general election, as many would never vote for a Democrat, no matter what.

However, I don’t think that applies to Iowa because it’s a public popularity contest here. He will win handedly here, not necessarily because he’s favored but because of peer pressure and the nastiness of others towards anyone who dares speak out against Trump. People just won’t show up, and I can’t say that I blame them. Few people are brave enough to actually stand up and put themselves in another literal corner in person, but a private ballot would likely be a different story. I cannot wrap my head around caucuses still being a thing, especially in this political climate.

I agree wholeheartedly that caucuses are ridiculous and undemocratic... but actually the republican caucus is slightly better than the democrat caucus. Republicans do have a secret ballot, it looks like. It seems like they still have to show up at a particular time and place though. www.iowafarmbureau.com/News/Farmers-Caucus/Learn-how-to-caucus

This was the case when I went to a Republican caucus in 2012. I was able to register on the spot and then vote anonymously. I have always been a Democrat, but I was curious how all of this works so I went undercover lol. I had moved to Iowa in 2008 after the caucus so it was my first opportunity to see what the fuss was about.

The dem caucus I attended in 2016 was not anonymous though! It was also IMO fairly disorganized, but at least at ours it was very clear who had the most supporters (Bernie) so counting each person individually probably wasn't as critical as it would have been if the numbers were closer.

[waverly]

I really had no idea about caucuses. I never thought to attend because I thought it was people who were super active/ high up in the party, not that regular people could walk in. Interesting.

No links but he says he won’t be a dictator guys so just believe him. Or like maybe the first day only….

[picksthemusic]

Dec 4, 2023 15:17:12 GMT -5 waverly said:

Dec 4, 2023 13:40:46 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

This was the scariest piece I've seen, and I've read the others from the NYT posted here....

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/30/trump-dictator-2024-election-robert-kagan/

I agree with everything he said but he left out something. Our turnout seems to be abysmal even for POTUS elections by design. Our government has ensured we'll always have citizens who feel like voting doesn't matter, there's no hope because the whole government sucks so why bother voting, etc. and I fear that will mean the 2024 election will be a disaster, especially with inflation being what it is. I think 2020 might have been an anomaly because of covid.

Do you have a gift link? This is behind a paywall for me.

Here is a gift link if anyone still needs it/wants it.

wapo.st/486EgsJ

[basilosaurus]

Fucking Jill Stein is again running as an independent? We're fucked. Do people never learn?!

That gift link was really fucking depressing.