S/o: what do we owe our elderly parents?

[isabel]

My mom and I actually had this conversation recently.

DH's grandma moved here and into his mom's house and his mom is *struggling* hard. It's been a big change in her life and grandma has some long term depression issues that his mom finally pushed on and made her take medication. She is doing much better, but is still very needy and the family is very reticent to put her in an assisted living facility because she is adamant she doesn't want that.

Knowing all of this, my own mom very bluntly told me never to take that on with her, and when I said I wouldn't, also told me to make sure my sister won't. That is not an obligation I would really ever feel. I'd sooner put her in a care facility, but my sister would totally feel obligated to take my mom in or something and my mom is adamant about not putting that burden on us. I really appreciate that she has been so direct about it and while she is still young (63).

[ssmjlm]

I will give everything I can to help my parents when the time comes, but spoiler alert, they have the money and foresight to plan for assisted living, etc. They won’t be a burden because they have their shit together.

My ILs are another story. MIL’s dad couldn’t afford care, so he lived with her and her husband for years. She complained endlessly, but has done no planning to not be the same burden.

FIL will likely pass away on his couch with the tv too loud, or get sick and have all his money go to his care. DH asked him 10 years ago to change the deed to the house, but he wouldn’t.

[aprilsails]

I've had a white night because of this topic and I didn't even read the thread yesterday.

I will hopefully have a long time before I'm faced with these issues with my own parents, so I'm less concerned I will be in the sandwich generation at that point. They are all in good health, active, with strong communities of friends and decent financial backing. They are just at the point of retirement and they all four have lots of plans. I think I have at least ten years before we will be dealing with any crises. I also get along with my siblings and stepsiblings and I think we can tackle things pretty well.

My ILs have more money than anyone else, but have had health related pitfalls and made choices that have landed them in a crisis right now. MIL has buried her head in the sand while drinking heavily for the past decade. She's finally come to and is panicking at the reality of FIL's healthcare needs (he has early onset dementia, complicated by a major frontal lobe injury 17 years ago which made him nasty as hell and hard to deal with, ergo her drinking). In the past month FIL has had a steep decline and we're finally obtaining services for him since both of them were resistant to doing anything for the past five years.

And then last night she informed me that her not so great vision has sharply decreased. Two weeks after the doctor pulled FIL's license. They live in a 4000sq ft home that she wants to renovate to suit FILs needs, (no bedroom or full bath on the ground floor, steep stairs to the entrance since the house is raised due to flooding risk). The house needs major updates and everything is falling apart since they've only made emergency repairs since retiring since FIL hates spending money. I think by the time we pulled the renovation together and destroyed the value of the house they would probably both need to move into nursing care. He definitely would. He's 6'5" and she's 5'2" with horrible arthritis and can't manage him at all.

DH begged them to move 4 years ago when we first noticed FIL declining, but MIL just loves her 1 acre lot and her beautiful house which is not close to any community services at all. Our builder had an empty 1/4 acre lot behind us and mainly builds 1500 sq ft accessible bungalows for retirees. It would have been so nice, and it really would have given her more ability to have independence for longer. DH is bitter.

[Jalapeñomel]

My parents have plenty of money, and in the last couple years, made it clear they won’t move closer to me. So they will age far, far away from us, and I’d imagine as the years progress, we will see less and less of them.

DH’s mom is DH’s father’s caretaker and has been on some form of hospice care for 3 years. We begged them to move closer years ago, planned to get a house together, and she was too worried that she’d be a burden. Then it became impossible for her to move, and I think she regrets it. When my FIL finally passes, she will, hopefully, move in with us.

Note: all but one of DH’s grandparents are still alive, so he has some longevity in his genes.

[underwaterrhymes]

My answer is, “it depends.”

We don’t live near any of our parents, and since both of our biological parents are divorced and remarried, we have four sets of parents in four very different locations.

My mom is probably the best prepared. She is vibrant and has a boyfriend who enjoys doing active things with her and she lives in a neighborhood where they do a lot of fun things. She has a long-term care plan she pays for, and has insisted that we use that when the time comes. Hopefully we won’t have to consider this for a long time. My sister lives close by and had the space, but with her recent mental health challenges, I do not know what the future holds there.

H’s dad and stepmom live in Costa Ríca and they have a huge community network of family and friends. H’s stepmom is in the end stages of cancer and while it’s hard for us being so far away, they have a lot of support. We won’t have a need to care for them.

My dad and stepmom are socially active and travel domestically a lot. And they are financially well-positioned, too. (My dad is 75 and only just retired last year.) My sister does not have a relationship with them, so any determination of care plans will fall to me or perhaps my cousin, who is close with her aunt (my stepmom.) I can say with confidence, though, they will not be living with us.

My husband’s mom and stepdad are a different story. Both have varying degrees of health problems and they live in our state (although quite a distance from us). H’s sister and her husband will be a big help, fortunately, when it comes time to determine their care.

Social interaction is critical as we age, as is physical activity. All of our parents are in their mid-70s and we can see a real difference in terms of how they’re aging and how our grandparents have aged based on this. Keeping them where they are now, where they have existing relationships, is so important and honestly I prefer that. We don’t have the space or the resources to care for all 7 remaining parents. I have a lot of guilt around this, but I’m also realistic. If we had no other choice, though, we would do what we could.

[midwestmama]

For me, I will help my parents to the extent we are able. They have been wonderful parents and have helped me and DH a lot (not financially (which is fine, we are good financially), but giving their time) over the years. DH and I haven't expected them to drop everything to help us, so I would have the same approach with helping them, and I'm sure they understand that our kids come first. If one of my parents passes away first, my dad said he might live with my sister and my mom said she would like to live with me. (DH seems fine with my mom living with us, at least right now.) We would need to reassess if they required care outside of what we could provide (including a safe place to live, if they end up having dementia).  ETA:  My parents planned for retirement, so are doing ok financially right now.  Both could live to 90+ based on family history, so hopefully they accounted for that.

For DH's parents...good luck to them. They were not great parents to DH (FIL was really bad, actually, due to his alcoholism). I suspect MIL has BPD, so she is very manipulative, lies, and has a strong victim mentality. DH helps her out from time-to-time with driving her to appointments and helping her with random things (like setting up the new cable box she received from the cable company), but we will not financially support her or let her move in with us.  ETA:  Financially, MIL has SS plus a little extra she makes working part time as a massage therapist.  I have no idea about FIL's financial situation.  I think the last time we saw him was a couple of years ago.

[maudefindlay]

DH's mom died unexpectedly 5 yrs ago at only age 70 (was stand up paddle boarding on the Gulf one day and literally the next had a stroke and hung on almost 2 months before we let her go). FIL is now 75 and has a busy life. Has a great girlfriend who is 77 and they golf multiple times a week, travel all over, go out to dinner and concerts etc, He has 2 homes they alternate at (one for wintering). He and late MIL planned well for retirement (as did girlfriend) and he needs nothing from us at this time. DH and his 2 older siblings are all local and so if FIL has a decline all will help, but I think FIL would go to a nursing home though SIL would likely fight it to bring him to her house as she is a martyr through and through.

My parents and I were always close but the past few years I've evolved and seen things for what they are and we are no longer close. It's all their doing and they've made zero effort to change or apologize, so they must be OK with this situation. We still do bdays and holidays together and my younger two spend the night at times, but I don't text or pick up the phone to talk as we once did. They did not plan as well for their retirement and aren't that active and do have health issues. I've asked about their plans as far as money for nursing home "We have a plan if that happens" and also asked who will be their poa and get no response which I take to mean it will be my older brother who lives an hour and 15 minutes away. Guarantee he has no idea and I tried to discuss and he blew me off, so he will get what he gets, I tried. I know the thinking will be that I'm local and if they end up in the hospital or nursing home I'll just do all the leg work, but fuck that shit. Growing up I was raised differently than my brother "Oh you can't do that, it doesn't look right for a girl to do that" but my brother was allowed. No fucking way am I running myself ragged doing all the work to just then have to get permission from my brother/the man. Nope. If he is poa he will do it all. I don't want that role to be clear, but it literally makes no sense to make him poa as he does nothing for them now. My DH helps them with house stuff a lot. The only reason is he is a man. Fuck that noise literally.

[bears]

It's a great question.

MIL is not local, is financially secure, has always been very adamant that she wouldn't move in with her children, and is much closer to SIL than MH. In my view, she hasn't always been there for her own mother, so the precedent has been set in my view.

My parents aren't local and are financially secure and savvy. I would be really concerned if something would happen to my mom before my dad--she handles all of the financials and helps out with my dad's medical stuff. I would be willing to take on quite a bit, in part because my mom has done so much for her own mother.

[bex1973]

Dec 7, 2023 16:41:54 GMT -5 bugandbibs said:

All that to say, I am a big believer in giving back the same energy that people put towards you.  I'm not a big fan of enabling bad behavior and creating boundaries has been a huge part of my growth as a person.

So much this. I didn't articulate this well in my post but this is exactly how I feel so I appreciate your words so much. My mom makes zero effort to connect with me and even less with my kid.

[mysteriouswife]

My mom died in her early 50’s. I’m not sure how to handle my dad when that time comes. We have an odd relationship. I have two brothers. My eldest brother and I opted to split responsibility of our dad and stepdad. I have our stepdad who fell off the earth after our mom died. My youngest brother will need care long after our dad and his mom are gone. Neither my eldest brother or I will be his care provider.

H was helping FIL. Then she things happened and H walked away. We have no remorse

MIL will be like my dad. Up in the air.

[Bernadine]

I’ve thought about this a lot, as my mom is adamant she does not want to go into a nursing home. All of our parents and siblings are local, so in theory, that should make logistics easier.

Luckily, our parents are only in their early-mid 60s and in good health, so I’m hopeful I still have some time before we have to worry about caretaking. My parents will be fine financially, but I do worry about if my mom gets sick, any time soon, how we would care for her. I still have at least 20 years of work ahead of me.

MIL, I do worry about her financially. Her husband is older, and I’m fully prepared for her to eventually move into the apartment in our basement.

[cattledogkisses]

I'm extremely fortunate that my parents have the financial means and foresight to make their own plans for their elder years. They're still relatively young (early 60s) but they've been thinking about this for awhile now. Having both had the experience themselves of having to care for elderly parents, I think they wanted to do everything they could to avoid placing that burden on their own kids.

[maudefindlay]

Bernadine not picking on you, just using your example, it kills me the line of thinking that "I'm not going into a nursing home"...OK, what is your plan then? No, really say it out loud, the assumption is there that kids will take you in, but seriously say the words out loud "I expect to burden my children". Hopefully our generations stop that crap.

I know some people want elderly parents to move in, that's fine. It's just the adamant statements against nursing homes or other options.

[ECB]

I've thought about this a lot too!  My stepmother - she's 78 and in decent health.  But she doesn't have a lot of $$.  She lives in a rowhome and I know the stairs aren't great for her.  I know we'll need to have a talk about what she wants to do next.  She knows she'll most likely need to move eventually (out of the only house her and my dad ever lived in together - so a lot of emotional ties!).  WHere?  We'll see.  She probably can't afford assisted living. 

My FIL is 88 and also in decent health.  He's better off financially. Not rich, but better off.  If/ when he needs to go into assisted living, he'll be able to afford it.  

FIL absolutely could never live with us.  He drives me up a wall, is very selfish, and it would do a lot of damage to my marriage, TBH.  But DH also gets very frustrated by his dad and I don't think he'd ever entertain that idea.  Thank god!  

Could SM live with us? Maybe.  But we have stairs.  And while she would be a big help, she would also drive me up a wall.  She's a talker, always needs to be doing something - personality wise, to be together all the time - it would hurt her relationship with me!  If we had a larger house where we could create more of an "inlaw area" where she has her own space, maybe.  But we don't have that kind of house.  

[chedifuen]

We're dealing with this now. My parents have always been amazing and gave so much to all 5 of their children and all 10 grandchildren. My father's health is very poor and they are starting to need a lot of help for him. My sister and I are stepping up to help with driving, appointments, food prep, house stuff. My brothers are fucking assholes and are happily letting us take on the burden. Frankly it's destroying our once very close sibling relationships. I'm so angry with them. We all live locally, my sister is the furthest away and it's still only a 20 minute drive. My fucking brothers still happily uses my mom for free childcare weekly but won't do shit to help when they need it.

My inlaws are also amazing and I'm sure we'll care for them as they age. Right now, they're active and healthy. My husband has two sisters but only one is local. I'm sure we'll carry most of the weight but his sister will probably also be helpful.

[lust2hart]

Dec 8, 2023 10:00:35 GMT -5 maudefindlay said:

Bernadine not picking on you, just using your example, it kills me the line of thinking that "I'm not going into a nursing home"...OK, what is your plan then? No, really say it out loud, the assumption is there that kids will take you in, but seriously say the words out loud "I expect to burden my children". Hopefully our generations stop that crap.

I know some people want elderly parents to move in, that's fine. It's just the adamant statements against nursing homes or other options.

My mom is dealing with this with her mom right now. 

Grandma has 5 kids; the closest is 1.5 hours away, three are 2.5-3 hours away, and the other is several states away. She has declined this year and was PISSED when the kids decided to have in-home care come every day; she truly expected her kids to take care of her. From 1.5-3 hours away?? 

While I feel bad for my mom that she's going through this with her mom, I'm hopeful this experience will inform her own expectations around aging and caregiving as I have no intention of being her (or my dad's, or my MIL's) caregiver, although I would be willing to contribute financially to other options.

[starburst604]

This is creeping closer and closer for me and H. His parents are 82 and 79 and mine are 73 and 76. Both sets of parents are divorced, which feels more complicated to me because it gives us 4 completely separate situations to consider rather than two "package deals". We have good relationships with our parents for the most part and will do what we can to be sure they are taken care of when they can't care for themselves anymore. My parents are both "young" for their age and in pretty good health, so it's hard to say what will be needed in the future. My dad would die before asking his kids for help or a place to live, and he's very financially secure. He's very stubborn but also sensible, so if a time comes when he needs around the clock care I don't think he would mind assisted living or the like. My mom isn't rolling in cash but she's stable. I wish she would sell our childhood home and downsize so that isn't left to me and my sister, but her older sister lives in the in-law apartment and doesn't have much to live on, so I don't think my mom will sell as long as my aunt is still alive. She likes the company too. She and her sibs placed her mother in a nursing home when it became impossible for her to live alone, so I don't think my mom would complain about going to one. 

H's parents, ugh lol. MIL is very financially secure and lives in a small home with her boyfriend in an over 55 community. Of all 4 she's probably the least healthy. She had lung cancer a few years ago and that really aged her. She's also becoming increasingly mean to H and is constantly picking fights with him, it's so frustrating. He has 3 other siblings but only his sister lives close, his 2 brothers are out of state. SIL lives 15 minutes from MIL so when she needs something, SIL can be there for her, and believe me we hear about it. When she had Covid "Sue brought me soup today and baked me cookies. Sue did this, Sue did that....". Well, Sue lives 15 minutes away and we live 45 minutes away and we appreciate what she does for her. FIL lives down south with H's oldest brother and they are living in a small home that MIL owns. BIL has intellectual disabilities and FIL is getting up there in age, so after FILs wife died a couple of years ago, my MIL offered to let him move in with BIL so they could look after each other. So FIL sold his house, paid back his reverse mortgage and is living off the rest of the proceeds, which he is flying through at an alarming rate it seems.

So that's them. Right now, we are glad they all still have their wits about them and no one is actively sick, but that can change at a moment's notice. It's hard to prepare when we don't know what to prepare for, but we do have potential in-law space if it comes to that. My sister is a SAHM, so I think if one of our parents needed frequent help, she will be able to do a lot of that but I'll also do what I need to do. MIL has Sue lol.

[livinitup]

My parents live in a split level ranch - front steps to the kitchen and living room, inside steps up to the bedrooms, more steps down to the basement and laundry. They plan to live in their house forever until they pass away quietly in their sleep (preferably on the same day).

About 5-6 years ago, the house next to my sister went up for sale - a beautiful 1-story ranch in a great neighborhood within blocks of most of their friends. They did not buy it. They didn’t even entertain the idea of buying it. Now, they say they should have bought it.

According to them, they missed their only chance to ever move out of their house and into a livable, suitable situation. Oh, well!

What do I think I owe them? I don’t know. I’ve encouraged them to do the most basic things to financially prepare and they act like I am bothering them, like a rude teenager asking about “adult” matters. They are going to do or not do anything they want and I will pick up the pieces as best I can with whatever is put in front of me. I don’t have any hard feelings for them, so I guess I’ll see what happens and help.

From what I can tell, they don’t want to think about aging or needing care or being a burden. So, they are pretending it won’t happen. And really hate any hint that it will.

[Poppy]

Ugh, I don't know. My mom and her wife (my step mom) are about to move away from us into a huge house with a lot of outdoor maintenance. Her wife is younger but I would guess my mom will outlive her. SM's sister and two nieces will be in the same state but at least an hour away. My mom does not want to be a burden but I'm frustrated because I think she's in denial. Hopefully she will move back here into an assisted living type situation if they become unable to stay in their house alone.

H's parents will need some help. TBD on how that will go but we will try to help, not going so far as to have them live with us.

[ssmjlm]

Aging in place is a ridiculous concept for so many. I don’t know what the olds expect, but it better not be that their kids will drop everything to come wipe their asses and chauffeur them around.

The boomer entitlement is OOC.

[jamaicam]

i owe my parents everything so will do whatever they need. They picked up my pieces after my husband died, they have done anything to support my children, and are now helping me adjust to a life with mobility issues. But as they are amazing, they have planned well for their future - they are both in their 70s and make an effort to stay healthy and active, they have saved for their retirement and are realistic about how they will manage their living situation as they age.

I am very fortunate and I tell them that regularly.

[meanie]

We came very close a few years ago to building an addition for my MIL. My stomach was in knots about it and I was really not happy to have to share my space and deal with passive aggressive bs in my own home. She is not a horrible person, but she feels very sorry for herself and lashes out at H sometimes. I handle her with kid gloves, which works great being a whole state away.

When the time comes I suck it up, I really feel that barring some unforgivable act it is important for family to look out for family. But I fully expect it to be the worst.

No one else will need to move in for financial reasons, but we joke that the in-law would be a revolving door because my parents are a lot younger. FIL and SMIL will happily die on their farm, plus H's sisters are local to them.

[waverly]

Dec 7, 2023 21:50:31 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

I will give everything I can to help my parents when the time comes, but spoiler alert, they have the money and foresight to plan for assisted living, etc. They won’t be a burden because they have their shit together.

My ILs are another story. MIL’s dad couldn’t afford care, so he lived with her and her husband for years. She complained endlessly, but has done no planning to not be the same burden.

FIL will likely pass away on his couch with the tv too loud, or get sick and have all his money go to his care. DH asked him 10 years ago to change the deed to the house, but he wouldn’t.

Change the deed to what?  

[fivechickens]

My dad is my only living parent and no I will not be helping him. Two main reasons: he lives in Virginia (I am in Michigan) and he is a shit father and grandfather (the latter really irks me).

[mrsslocombe]

This is a question that has plagued my husband and I, as he has risked his job and done a number on our marriage by prioritizing caring for his parents. We live in NYC, they are in PA. He moved in with them, out of Catholic guilt.

We are fortunate that my In-laws prepared financially for this, and got power of attorney done. But otherwise they have been an absolute nightmare. They waited far too long to act, and in the end forced us to make certain decisions that destroyed my husband's relationship with them. And my MIL died without repairing that.

I personally don't think anyone "owes" it to their parents. And I think it's important to acknowledge when they are actively making decisions that put their health and future at risk, it is their right to make that decision. But that doesn't mean you have to drop your entire life because they chose to stay in a death trap of a house when they have the financial means to go somewhere else.

For all y'all that have kids, please do not do this to your children. Please make a plan. And know that you will have to be ready to move to a retirement community, assisted living, downsizing, etc before you actually need to.

My grandmother chose to move into a retirement community apartment at age 75 when she was in great health. She lived independently until she was 99. She was in full control of her decisions until the end and died surrounded by her family. My MIL fought tooth and nail until we forced her to go, then died two weeks later suddenly with her son hating her.

[pinkdutchtulips]

My dad is 2k miles away. Not much I can do except offer support from afar. I'm not dropping everything to be w him. His wife, my stepmom, is a retired RN who specialized in geriatrics. My sister lives 90m away w a ridiculously flexible schedule. Yes, there are 4 of us kids. Yes, I'm the oldest. No, I don't feel any kind of obligation to drop everything. Maybe if I had a spouse like my siblings I'd have a different take, but as a single solo parent to a challenging child ... I'll do what I can from afar. 

[minzy]

I haven’t read the whole article but this may resonate for some of us:

www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2023/11/first-born-children-eldest-daughter-family-dynamics/675986/

[ssmjlm]

Dec 8, 2023 13:38:32 GMT -5 waverly said:

Dec 7, 2023 21:50:31 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

I will give everything I can to help my parents when the time comes, but spoiler alert, they have the money and foresight to plan for assisted living, etc. They won’t be a burden because they have their shit together.

My ILs are another story. MIL’s dad couldn’t afford care, so he lived with her and her husband for years. She complained endlessly, but has done no planning to not be the same burden.

FIL will likely pass away on his couch with the tv too loud, or get sick and have all his money go to his care. DH asked him 10 years ago to change the deed to the house, but he wouldn’t.

Change the deed to what?  

To the kids names. Then the state won’t take the house to pay for the nursing home. There is typically a 5 year waiting period, so DH suggested doing it sooner than later.

[wanderingback]

Sorry for what everyone is dealing with.

I’m an only child and my parents are divorced. They have always cared for me and are wonderful people so I’ll have no problems caring for them mentally. My mom is single and my dad has remarried. Both of their fianances are ok and my dad was in the military for 20+ years. They both live in the same town about a 5 hour drive from me and there’s no way I’d ever live there, so that’s going to be the only complicated thing.

My dad’s dad live alone (and with his girlfriend) until he was 93 and 4 months before his death. My mom’s mom is 106 and she lives back and forth with my mom and aunt and needs more and more care these days with cooking and bathing but still walks and talks and enjoys some activities. It is definitely hard work being a care giver. But my mom says her mom took care of her for at least 18 years growing up so she definitely feels and wants to take care of her mom now. I think I’ll feel the same.

[jinkies]

My parents have a 60 acre farm and a lot of livestock. They live in a 200 year old house with steps between every room. They are in their 7Os and not in great health. They have had cancer 3 times between them, my dad smoked for 40 years, and my mom can barely walk because she needs a hip replacement that she keeps putting off.

To my knowledge they don't have a will, have not established a POA, have no plans for the animals or even written instructions for care in case something happened suddenly to my dad.

I tried to ask about a will a few years ago, and my mom refused to talk to me. My dad basically called me greedy and heavily implied that my brother is going to get almost everything, but "it's OK" because my brother doesn't have kids so presumably he'll leave his estate to my kids when he eventually dies. So basically they may or may not have a will, but if they do it is designed to cut me out.

I previously thought we were close, although our relationship had definitely declined in more recent years because they have become consumed by politics and obsessed with money in a really uncomfortable way. I'm seeing them more clearly for who they are as people, as opposed to just as my parents, and it hasn't been good for our relationship. I know they don't owe me anything but hearing that they planned to so heavily favor my brother really upset me and damaged our relationship further.

I'm dreading them reaching a point where they need more intense care because they will not be able to remain in their home and they have no plans for it. They absolutely cannot live with me, and I'm not sure that my brother could/would take it on. I've given up on trying to talk to them about it because they just refuse to speak to me or give me stupid "joke" answers.

It's so selfish but there really isn't anything I can do about it.