Costs of “cheap” cashmere

[1yeartogo]

The content is pretty obvious but it has some cute goat pictures included. People need to be less consumerist.

www.npr.org/2023/12/20/1220683483/cheap-cashmere-sweater-goats-environment-shopping

[DotAndBuzz]

This is interesting to me - I'm trying to buy more classic design, long-term pieces, as needed, as I clear out my closet (mostly stuff that no longer fits). Last year tried a few items from Quince, one of which, was their (very cheap) cashmere sweater. But it was sooooo thin. I sent it back, because it was truly paper thin, and sure, it was only $50 for something that should have run over $100, but I thought there's no way that sweater would have made it through a season. You could see right through it, and although I'm not tough on clothes, I do LIVE in them. I wanted something that was a sweater I could put on for the day, and not worry about, and this was....not it.

So I guess it's an unsurprising "you get what you pay for/cheap fashion still has a high cost" situation.

[pixy0stix]

The NYT opinion piece is good too (gift link). The final takeaway is that we shouldn't be buying cashmere at all.

This Holiday, Consider the True Cost of Cheap Cashmere www.nytimes.com/2023/12/16/opinion/holidays-environment-cashmere.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Hk0.ma5T.YfPx_AoDCZ9Q&smid=nytcore-android-share

[Vally]

I stopped buying cashmere a long time ago, and just last week a sustainable influencer I follow (@millakozak on IG) shared this company BBSheep that recycles cashmere. I bought my H some of their beanies and they are very nice but it’s the only way I’ll even consider cashmere ever again.

[quesyrah]

Dec 21, 2023 8:10:05 GMT -5 DotAndBuzz said:

This is interesting to me - I'm trying to buy more classic design, long-term pieces, as needed, as I clear out my closet (mostly stuff that no longer fits). Last year tried a few items from Quince, one of which, was their (very cheap) cashmere sweater. But it was sooooo thin. I sent it back, because it was truly paper thin, and sure, it was only $50 for something that should have run over $100, but I thought there's no way that sweater would have made it through a season. You could see right through it, and although I'm not tough on clothes, I do LIVE in them. I wanted something that was a sweater I could put on for the day, and not worry about, and this was....not it.

So I guess it's an unsurprising "you get what you pay for/cheap fashion still has a high cost" situation.

Same here right down to the Quince cashmere!

I have found it hard to determine which brands have quality that matches the price and which brands are over priced boutiques that look and feel like cheap Amazon stuff. It’s also hard to figure out which brands are truly environmentally friendly or just telling a nice story

It’s hard to figure out where to shop.

[mrsukyankee]

I've begun only buying recycled cashmere sweaters in the UK. They are well made and I like the idea of them too.

[wawa]

Oh wow, I had no idea it was such an issue with this specific industry.
I LOVE a cashmere sweater, but I'm a cheap bitch so I thrift them.
between stuff for me and gifts I've purchased half a dozen cashmere sweaters in the past year, but they're all second hand.
A bit of in person thrifting, but also you can sort by fiber on ThredUp so a fair amount from there.
Mostly J Crew apparently (not on purpose, but that's how it worked out), so not a $50 price point new.

If you buy problematic things second hand, I guess that's still propping up the industry as a whole? Is that a thing? How do people think about that?

JCrew's website says they're part of the Aid by Trade group mentioned in the NYT piece, though that opinion seemed skeptical that it was going to accomplish much.

[aurora]

I didn't realize the environmental implications until the article yesterday. I bought a few cashmere sweaters last year and they seem to be holding up well, which is good since now I know I shouldn't buy more.

[audette]

Not cashmere, but also relevent...

www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/10/sweater-clothing-quality-natural-fibers-fast-fashion/675600/


Title of the story is "Your Sweaters are Garbage". It's more about wool sweaters (and less or no wool sweaters), but it also talks about fast fashion's impact on knitwear.

[SusanBAnthony]

I was looking to buy a sweater this fall, and never found one that didn't seem cheap. I used to own a bunch of cotton sweaters as I'm sensitive to wool (makes me itch and turn red). So cotton it was and they lasted a long time. Now I can easily find wool free sweaters since so many sweaters are synthetic, but the quality is crap. Cashmere was the dream because it's the only animal fiber I can tolerate..... Guess I'll continue to keep an eye out at thrift stores instead.

Personally I give all secondhand shopping an ethical gold star. Until we actually consume all of our own secondhand clothes, I figure it's much better than buying new. The US currently exports secondhand clothes to other countries. My sister has a very nice wardrobe of American clothes from Guatemalan thrift stores.

[sent]

Maybe we as a society need to be responsible humans and not make things that are unnecessary and bad for the environment. Something like cashmere was supposed to be a luxury, financially unattainable for most. That's literally the definition of luxury! Or even with something affordable like Cheetos. However, we don't need Hot Cheetos if the hot powder causes health problems for the people working in the Hot Cheetos department (pretty sure I read this article on this board). And on and on. The companies have to step up and be responsible and it seems so few are these days. The rest all just seek more profit$ no matter the human or environmental cost.

Besides the government stepping in and forcing regulations, there seems to be literally no other way to make people and companies behave responsibly.

[jlt19]

Dec 21, 2023 18:57:31 GMT -5 sent said:

Maybe we as a society need to be responsible humans and not make things that are unnecessary and bad for the environment. Something like cashmere was supposed to be a luxury, financially unattainable for most. That's literally the definition of luxury! Or even with something affordable like Cheetos. However, we don't need Hot Cheetos if the hot powder causes health problems for the people working in the Hot Cheetos department (pretty sure I read this article on this board). And on and on. The companies have to step up and be responsible and it seems so few are these days. The rest all just seek more profit$ no matter the human or environmental cost.

Besides the government stepping in and forcing regulations, there seems to be literally no other way to make people and companies behave responsibly.

I may be jaded, but I have no faith this will happen in our lifetime.

[cattledogkisses]

Dec 21, 2023 15:48:37 GMT -5 wawa said:

Oh wow, I had no idea it was such an issue with this specific industry.
I LOVE a cashmere sweater, but I'm a cheap bitch so I thrift them.
between stuff for me and gifts I've purchased half a dozen cashmere sweaters in the past year, but they're all second hand.
A bit of in person thrifting, but also you can sort by fiber on ThredUp so a fair amount from there.
Mostly J Crew apparently (not on purpose, but that's how it worked out), so not a $50 price point new.

If you buy problematic things second hand, I guess that's still propping up the industry as a whole? Is that a thing? How do people think about that?

JCrew's website says they're part of the Aid by Trade group mentioned in the NYT piece, though that opinion seemed skeptical that it was going to accomplish much.

I buy all my cashmere secondhand too, mostly from Poshmark and Ebay. 

I never thought of secondhand as being problematic because 1) the money isn't going to the original retailer, and 2) those sweaters are already in existence; if they don't get worn they're probably going to be trashed.  You might as well use them for the fullest extent of the life of the garment. 

If my reasoning is incorrect though I'm open to hearing other perspectives.

[ssmjlm]

If we start making second hand shopping problematic, I think we've gone too far. As pp have said, at least it's keeping stuff out of landfills or being sent overseas.

I think sent had a good point on luxury brands as a whole. Cashmere is just one of the piece of the me me me generation, where I should be able to have what I want. Luxury brands have seen huge sales growth and as a result have been increasing prices steadily during and post COVID. And quality is going down for some of these brands.

I follow a few IGers focused on second hand shopping, which I appreciate having those resources.

[pixy0stix]

Secondhand is fine.

I do wonder where the super excessive Amazon return sales, where people buy giant crates of returns, falls though. It's truly disgusting how many items get returned and then resold only to be thrown out.

[ssmjlm]

Dec 22, 2023 9:08:27 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Secondhand is fine.

I do wonder where the super excessive Amazon return sales, where people buy giant crates of returns, falls though. It's truly disgusting how many items get returned and then resold only to be thrown out.

Because I'm an old, I have seen some FB reels of people buying pallets/bins of amazon returns and then I guess they resell on FB marketplace or similar.

Some of it is clothes.

[Deleted]

Dec 22, 2023 9:08:27 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Secondhand is fine.

I do wonder where the super excessive Amazon return sales, where people buy giant crates of returns, falls though. It's truly disgusting how many items get returned and then resold only to be thrown out.

A lot of these are resold a very deep discounts. If you’ve ever seen one of those “Bin” stores, that’s what they are. Not necessarily just Amazon, but returns in general. I’m not sure what they do with anything that doesn’t sell…

[pixy0stix]

Dec 22, 2023 10:44:38 GMT -5 ssmjlm said:

Dec 22, 2023 9:08:27 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Secondhand is fine.

I do wonder where the super excessive Amazon return sales, where people buy giant crates of returns, falls though. It's truly disgusting how many items get returned and then resold only to be thrown out.

Because I'm an old, I have seen some FB reels of people buying pallets/bins of amazon returns and then I guess they resell on FB marketplace or similar.

Some of it is clothes.

Right, but they also do the thing where they take the stuff that won't sell here overseas. So much like the donation problem we have, all that junk is being sold in a secondary market elsewhere which depresses their local economy.

Reels/tiktok just accounts for the smaller resellers, and it doesn't show the whole process.

All in all, Americans just buy too much.

[mala]

Tangent: don't buy chrochet items unless you're buying direct from the maker. Crochet stuff has become popular in fast fashion but it can not be done by machine. All crochet things are handmade, and in fast fashion/retail that means (in most cases) low wage or slave labor.

[wawa]

Dec 22, 2023 11:33:54 GMT -5 mala said:

Tangent: don't buy chrochet items unless you're buying direct from the maker. Crochet stuff has become popular in fast fashion but it can not be done by machine. All crochet things are handmade, and in fast fashion/retail that means (in most cases) low wage or slave labor.

and if you're ever looking at something and want to know if it's crochet or knit...feel free to tag me or one of the other yarners on here and ask.  LOL  (Or just come over to crafts. it's slow there)  

[wawa]

I'm happy to have the CEP stamp of approval on my thrifting - but I do think there's some aspect of even second hand something can be so problematic that it's still not "ok". Like, if there's a strong resale market for some things (or even just a perception of that market), that just helps drive the ridiculousness of people buying things they don't actually need in the first place. (not that anybody NEEDS cashmere sweaters...).

The worst example being influencers doing constant hauls with dozens of new items every month, and wearing them each twice and then reselling on poshmark. Silliest example I can think of being people who bought god knows how many beanie babies because they were convinced they would be worth resale money.

Not saying cashmere is there necessarily, but I do think about it. I refuse to buy truly fast fashion even second hand for that reason. also why the fuck would I want your shoddily made garment second hand when I can get a well made piece for the same price?? There should NOT be a resale market for fucking Shein. But it's been showing up on the second hand websites.

[Scout'sHonor]

Dec 22, 2023 12:29:26 GMT -5 wawa said:

Dec 22, 2023 11:33:54 GMT -5 mala said:

Tangent: don't buy chrochet items unless you're buying direct from the maker. Crochet stuff has become popular in fast fashion but it can not be done by machine. All crochet things are handmade, and in fast fashion/retail that means (in most cases) low wage or slave labor.

and if you're ever looking at something and want to know if it's crochet or knit...feel free to tag me or one of the other yarners on here and ask.  LOL  (Or just come over to crafts. it's slow there)  

I'm going to try to be over on the crafts board more! This year I actually made cool things and pushed myself and want to continue to do so.

There's starting to be more of a conversation in the fiber arts about the sustainability factor of different yarns. Acrylic and nylon are of course plastic, but also cheap and easy to care for. Wool from sheep is better, but a lot of companies use superwash, which is either chemically treated or covered in resin to deal with the scales on the fiber (it also makes it easier to pick up dye). Angora goat, alpaca, and yak are lovely yarns, but just like cashmere, take a lot of animals to produce. There are some plant based ones: cotton, linen, tycell, and bamboo, but again need to be chemically processed. I'm starting to see more recycled yarns which is good. 

[audette]

Dec 22, 2023 12:29:26 GMT -5 wawa said:

Dec 22, 2023 11:33:54 GMT -5 mala said:

Tangent: don't buy chrochet items unless you're buying direct from the maker. Crochet stuff has become popular in fast fashion but it can not be done by machine. All crochet things are handmade, and in fast fashion/retail that means (in most cases) low wage or slave labor.

and if you're ever looking at something and want to know if it's crochet or knit...feel free to tag me or one of the other yarners on here and ask.  LOL  (Or just come over to crafts. it's slow there)  

There are specific knitting features that cannot be machine knit, but most commercial knits are machine made now. (You just don't see the styles that require hand knitting for sale, generally.)

[basilosaurus]

Dec 22, 2023 12:48:55 GMT -5 wawa said:

I'm happy to have the CEP stamp of approval on my thrifting - but I do think there's some aspect of even second hand something can be so problematic that it's still not "ok". Like, if there's a strong resale market for some things (or even just a perception of that market), that just helps drive the ridiculousness of people buying things they don't actually need in the first place. (not that anybody NEEDS cashmere sweaters...).

The worst example being influencers doing constant hauls with dozens of new items every month, and wearing them each twice and then reselling on poshmark. Silliest example I can think of being people who bought god knows how many beanie babies because they were convinced they would be worth resale money.

Not saying cashmere is there necessarily, but I do think about it. I refuse to buy truly fast fashion even second hand for that reason. also why the fuck would I want your shoddily made garment second hand when I can get a well made piece for the same price?? There should NOT be a resale market for fucking Shein. But it's been showing up on the second hand websites.

Like people who insist a $2k purse is a good investment.

I agree there seems to me this attitude that buying fast fashion is a-ok if you just resell it a few months later. I never really thought about that much, but I think that's exactly the situation

[arehopsveggies]

Thought of this thread at the thrift store the other day. I found a cashmere sweater that was the color of the day, so $2. It had a hole, was probably ignored by many others and would end up in a trash bin soon. Hopefully I can darn it! Or just wear it with the tiny hole. Who will even notice?

I had looked at the Quince website but never actually ordered. This thread convinced me not to

I definitely have family members that order cheap “cashmere” online and then whine when they quality or % is junk.