When should you retire? Life expectancy vs work expectancy

[neverfstop]

I'm starting to think about this more. I want to retire in my 60's so I still have time to enjoy my life before my health likely starts to deteriorate in my 70's.  But setting a single age for everybody seems...not fair? Also clearly biased.  It's almost like retirement benefits should kick earlier the less you made (more likely to be a physical job or something in the HEAL fields). 

What Is the Ideal Retirement Age for Your Health?

Average life expectancy has risen by 16 years since the national retirement age was set at 65. We asked health experts when they think people should stop working now.
www.nytimes.com/2023/04/03/well/live/retirement-age-health.html?unlocked_article_code=1.N00.LqjI.2RQSh5rONozO&smid=url-share 

Life span and health-span are also not consistent across race and gender, both because of the type of work certain demographics are more likely to take part in, and the toll chronic stress from discrimination takes on the body.



In his research, Dr. Wettstein found that, at age 50, Black men have a working life expectancy of approximately 17 years, while white women could continue working for 24 years. “There is an equity concern there, both on the life expectancy side, and also on the working-life expectancy side,” Dr. Wettstein said.

[penguingrrl]

While we’ve tried to save, H and I don’t consider retirement a realistic option for our future. We’ll likely have to work until we no longer can. Given increased living costs I can’t imagine a time when we feel safe without a reliable income.

I’d love to be able to travel more (right now we don’t at all) and have fun in retirement, but I can’t imagine a time I’d trust living on my savings after watching my mother’s meager retirement savings disappear in 2008.

[dontlook]

That was depressing.

[loira]

I work in the retirement industry (pensions) and longevity is going to be a huge problem for Canadians of my generation. Some of us are lucky enough to have really well managed defined benefit pension plans, but even then, with cost of living rising and millenials/gen z unable to do things traditionally considered part of retirement savings (buying and paying off a house) it probably won't matter. I am basically resigned to working in retirement until I can no longer work and hopefully I'll be able to afford my care home.

penguingrrl, liking out of solidarity.

[macmars45]

Jan 15, 2024 19:31:03 GMT -5 penguingrrl said:

While we’ve tried to save, H and I don’t consider retirement a realistic option for our future. We’ll likely have to work until we no longer can. Given increased living costs I can’t imagine a time when we feel safe without a reliable income.

   This sums it up for me.

[katb]

We luckily have defined pensions and will/do not depend on any available Social Security. DH could retire at 62 but really likes his job so will probably work until 65 - 67. I have a very small pension from teaching but am on a new job path. I will work until my kids are through college (another 7 - 8ish yrs) most likely. We are very very fortunate he has a job not only in the union but is an officer so our healthcare is taken care of.

[erbear]

I cannot imagine working for another 30 years (I’m 45). My FIL retired at 67 after 45 years at the same place only to drop dead of a massive heart attack at 70. We’ve been saving aggressively since we started working and are hoping that we’ve done enough to retire at 60-62.

What a difference affordable health care would make for people’s happiness in middle age.

[underwaterrhymes]

H has a pension and the longer he stays in, the better our retirement looks.

I had nothing saved for retirement when I started my current job almost five years ago. But my org has an incredible match - they put in more than anywhere I’ve ever worked - and between them and me, I’m throwing 21% of my salary at it (close to the max allowed).

It’s a golden handcuffs plan. I don’t love my job. But if I stay as long as I can, I will be able to catch up significantly for not saving for retirement for my first 20 years of employment.

Neither one of us will retire before 65, though.

[nothingcontroversial]

My mother-in-law died of sudden cardiac arrest at the age of 64. She died 3 months after her husband retired and about a year before her own planned retirement. My mom got cancer and died a few months later on her own 64th birthday. My dad was found dead in his bed (of a heart attack or something, we're not sure because we didn't get an autopsy) at the age of 72. 

So, my husband and I try really hard right now to live in the moment.  We're mindful about our money, but we try really hard right now to find things available to us that can bring us joy right now. 

[konapoppy]

Hugs nothingcontroversial

H plans to work until he dies. Honestly, I don’t expect him to live past 70 (the even gets there).

I don’t want to work forever, but my energy will have to go to something. I wouldn’t be surprised if I semi retire and basically consult on my own schedule.

I have pretty good longevity in my family, so barring something catastrophic I need to plan for at least 90.

[lilac05]

I think a lot about this because I work in neurorehabilitation. The number of people I see who have VERY recently retired was one of my biggest surprises. Stroke, falling off of a ladder (a shocking number of those!), heart attack, accident, etc. One might think that's reason to want to retire early, but these people ranged from low 50s to two in their 80s. I haven't looked for actual research on it, but anecdotally, it seems like health frequently takes a sudden turn early in retirement.

I wish we had an off-ramp available. Fewer hours in a less stressful position and more flexibility (as often doctors appointments increase as we age), but still a reason to stay physically and mentally active, have an income, and keep health insurance. Everyone talks about traveling in retirement, but that's really a privilege available to few (especially once you combine finances and health).

[bugandbibs]

My family does not have a long life expectancy, and although I am hoping that lifestyle choices I have made may help me I have a hard time thinking that I might work until a few years before I die.

MH and I have done our best to keep our overhead low to hopefully retire when on the “earlier” side. The idea being that once our house is paid off (the starter home I bought before we were married), we will have more financial wiggle room to semi-retire and hopefully have some time to enjoy. It all feels like a crapshoot.

[bee20]

I grew up in an area where many people didn't choose to retire, they just stopped being employable. Combine that with the great recession early in my working career and I do not trust that I will always be able to find work, especially work that pays at my current level. Social security won't replace a great job, but it does keep people out of poverty.

To the question in the article, what do we owe people, I think we as a society need to focus on making each year enjoyable and worth living, not focusing on 2-3 healthy years at the end of your career before you're disabled. That would be more time off, more cultural acceptance of work breaks and sabbaticals, and more flexible work hours (not just 40 hours/week for professional work).

We also need to address the fact that many people become temporarily disabled at some point in their working careers. FMLA protection only applies once you've been working 12 months at the same employer, so if you change jobs for a better opportunity you're taking a huge risk.

[underwaterrhymes]

I think when we talk about retirement, we are hindered by the fact that the US has such a fucking bootstraps mentality. There is no community. There is a crap security net that people are ridiculed for taking advantage of. We praise or brag about working ridiculous hours every week. We “other” everyone who doesn’t look like us, love like us, or worship like us.

I wish work life balance and family and friendships and spending time doing things we love and caring for each other were prioritized instead. I think not only would our world be a better place, but also people would be better able to enjoy the time we have on earth, including retirement. We’d have less stress, which would improve our life expectancies too.

[karinothing]

DH and I both have pensions and I have been able to save well, but I have no idea when we will want to retire. I know that we will work until the kids are done with college (at a minimum) so that is probably at least 60. At that point, I don't know. Both of us work sedentary telework jobs that allow us to take a ton of vacation. I mean I took 11.4 weeks of vacation last year and still have 22 years left on my mortgage (which I think is the most depressing part of it all lol). So that means I am working until at least 63! LOL. But the nature of my job isn't causing me to long for retirement.

My mom died young but my dad is still here at 87. My mom's brothers are both in their 70s and doing well (but my dad's parents died young).

I don't honestly know what I think the purpose of retirement is an I work for Social Security lol. I think in my mind the Social Security aspect is really to provide a safety net for those that can't work anymore. I agree with bee20, that we should focus on making overall life more enjoyable. Why should folks have to wait until 70 to travel and have fun. But I don't see how we do that without completely upending American work culture.

[neverfstop]

Jan 15, 2024 23:09:35 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I wish we had an off-ramp available. Fewer hours in a less stressful position and more flexibility (as often doctors appointments increase as we age), but still a reason to stay physically and mentally active, have an income, and keep health insurance. Everyone talks about traveling in retirement, but that's really a privilege available to few (especially once you combine finances and health).

Yes to this part! I've really wished we could have more 'out'ternships (instead of internships) to allow older people to mentor, partially retire, pass on institutional knowledge and open up positions for younger people to be promoted. 

[neverfstop]

Jan 16, 2024 6:37:51 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

I think when we talk about retirement, we are hindered by the fact that the US has such a fucking bootstraps mentality. There is no community. There is a crap security net that people are ridiculed for taking advantage of. We praise or brag about working ridiculous hours every week. We “other” everyone who doesn’t look like us, love like us, or worship like us.

I wish work life balance and family and friendships and spending time doing things we love and caring for each other were prioritized instead. I think not only would our world be a better place, but also people would be better able to enjoy the time we have on earth, including retirement. We’d have less stress, which would improve our life expectancies too.

Agreed, but I do also think this is changing and more people (at least in the middle class) are able to use things like remote work and other policies to have a better balance.  But this is also closely tied to capitalism and wealth inequality.  We have the resources and the means to ALL enjoy a higher standing of life/living, but we just want trillionaires instead.   I lol-sob about all the historic articles that predicted society would only need to work 20 hours per week with all the advancements we were making & then everybody could sit around and picnic or make art....  Instead we've gone to a 24/7 job with email and phones

[Jalapeñomel]

Nobody should have to work until they die. When we have a president in his late 70s/early 80s, this is the precedent—-well he can do it, why shouldn’t everyone else?

DH and I lucked out and moved to a place where we will receive pensions and have a strong union (although it’s nowhere near as good as it once was because they’re negotiating out the retirement stuff every year, the old, “we got ours, so we won’t fight for yours mentality”), but we have to work until 62.

[underwaterrhymes]

Jan 16, 2024 6:43:14 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Jan 16, 2024 6:37:51 GMT -5 underwaterrhymes said:

I think when we talk about retirement, we are hindered by the fact that the US has such a fucking bootstraps mentality. There is no community. There is a crap security net that people are ridiculed for taking advantage of. We praise or brag about working ridiculous hours every week. We “other” everyone who doesn’t look like us, love like us, or worship like us.

I wish work life balance and family and friendships and spending time doing things we love and caring for each other were prioritized instead. I think not only would our world be a better place, but also people would be better able to enjoy the time we have on earth, including retirement. We’d have less stress, which would improve our life expectancies too.

Agreed, but I do also think this is changing and more people (at least in the middle class) are able to use things like remote work and other policies to have a better balance.  But this is also closely tied to capitalism and wealth inequality.  We have the resources and the means to ALL enjoy a higher standing of life/living, but we just want trillionaires instead.   I lol-sob about all the historic articles that predicted society would only need to work 20 hours per week with all the advancements we were making & then everybody could sit around and picnic or make art....  Instead we've gone to a 24/7 job with email and phones

Absolutely agree. We have deliberately created these systemic inequities and would need to break them down before we’d be able to accomplish anything like what we need as a society.

[ssmjlm]

I have no plans to stay past when my retirement age is, which is 57. But this is also because DH is 9 years older and plans to retire in 9 years when he's 60. I'll be 42 on Saturday, so 15 years to go. We should be fine between pensions and 401k plus investments. Our house should basically be paid off when I retire or within a couple years of it.


My ILs are both going to have money issues if they live long. Most of their issues are self inflicted though.

[krystee]

One big problem I see with everyone having to work longer is who the heck is going to employ them? Even people in their upper 50s often face challenges getting hired.

And now jobs that I DID see a lot of retired people in, like part time cashiers, are going away and being replaced by machines. AI is probably going to make a ton of jobs redundant, so it doesn’t seem realistic to say there will be jobs for people for another 10-15 years beyond traditional retirement age.

[CrazyLucky]

My dad is still working at 80. He can't afford his house if he doesn't, but the mortgage is enough that I can't afford to pay it for him. Ideally he'd move into a senior citizen apartment complex, but he will never do that.
DH and I are hoping / planning to retire at 60. Right now, it looks like we're on track with that, but my job is going away at the end of this year, so all that could change. FIL died at 58. I know that plays on DH's mind because he wants a chance to enjoy retirement. The biggest expense for us will be health care coverage. When we get a little closer we plan to put a lot in the HSA to cover it or at least partially cover it. When we work with the financial advisor, we completely leave social security out of the equation. Who knows if/when we will be able to collect it?

I knew life expectancy had grown since the late 1800's/early 1900's, but wow, those statistics were more than I realized. I don't like the idea that people should work until they are physically or cognitively unable to. They don't to be able to travel the world, but they should have a chance to enjoy a few healthy years.

[eddy]

Jan 15, 2024 23:09:35 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I wish we had an off-ramp available. Fewer hours in a less stressful position and more flexibility (as often doctors appointments increase as we age), but still a reason to stay physically and mentally active, have an income, and keep health insurance. Everyone talks about traveling in retirement, but that's really a privilege available to few (especially once you combine finances and health).

My dream retiree job is working the garden section at Hyvee during spring/summer. All the retirees seem so happy that work there. Keeps them active. You are outside. Get to talk gardening. Just a temporary gig.

Thanks to working in state govt since I was 25 my retirement is pretty stable. I also don't have grand plans for retirement. I am living my life now. My mom died at 57 and never even touched her retirement funds. I certainly want to live longer than her, but the idea saving to do grand things during retirement is not appealing. I want to cover my costs.

We have friends who have a plan to retire at 57 and I will say it doesn't seem appealing to me. I mean it isn't my money so it doesn't have to be appealing to me lol. But I am not envious of their plan. That is A LOT of years they are going to need to cover, plus find ways to keep themselves active/healthy/engaged. they live a very meager life right now so they can afford this outcome. Again not my money, but also not how I plan to retire. I would like to work until I am 65 and then find a PT gig to keep me sharp. 

[Jalapeñomel]

Jan 16, 2024 8:58:55 GMT -5 eddy said:

Jan 15, 2024 23:09:35 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I wish we had an off-ramp available. Fewer hours in a less stressful position and more flexibility (as often doctors appointments increase as we age), but still a reason to stay physically and mentally active, have an income, and keep health insurance. Everyone talks about traveling in retirement, but that's really a privilege available to few (especially once you combine finances and health).

My dream retiree job is working the garden section at Hyvee during spring/summer. All the retirees seem so happy that work there. Keeps them active. You are outside. Get to talk gardening. Just a temporary gig.

Thanks to working in state govt since I was 25 my retirement is pretty stable. I also don't have grand plans for retirement. I am living my life now. My mom died at 57 and never even touched her retirement funds. I certainly want to live longer than her, but the idea saving to do grand things during retirement is not appealing. I want to cover my costs.

We have friends who have a plan to retire at 57 and I will say it doesn't seem appealing to me. I mean it isn't my money so it doesn't have to be appealing to me lol. But I am not envious of their plan. That is A LOT of years they are going to need to cover, plus find ways to keep themselves active/healthy/engaged. they live a very meager life right now so they can afford this outcome. Again not my money, but also not how I plan to retire. I would like to work until I am 65 and then find a PT gig to keep me sharp. 

The article does talk about the negatives to retiring early, “Many of these cognitive processes are maintained and strengthened by staying in the work force. Consequently, some people decline mentally and physically when they stop working. One study even found that delaying retirement was associated with a decreased risk of death, regardless of health before retirement. Experts speculate that the losses of job-related physical activity and social interactions that come with leaving work are largely to blame for post-retirement declines.”
@@@@
Someone once told me that having kids later will keep me young, so I hope that’s true. I’d like to retire in time to take care of grandkids.

Ideally, when I retire, I’d like to work/live in a senior animal rescue—-we can age together.

[erbear]

I have more thoughts. @@mention

Even if the “ability” to work increases, that doesn’t mean the expectation should. This is what I think people who oppose “socialism” don’t get — that part of the gig of working your ass off for 40-45 years is that the next generation takes the reins and you get to reap the benefits. The current system that young folks are trying to institute, while beneficial to them and probably a good system in the long term, makes it hard for people like me to consider retiring.

The fact of the matter is that while I could probably work into my 70s at my job (teaching), I don’t want to. It’s not a go to work, do your job and come home kinda gig. I don’t want to be doing this when I have grandchildren and want to be living my life.

[erbear]

Jan 16, 2024 6:39:21 GMT -5 neverfstop said:

Jan 15, 2024 23:09:35 GMT -5 lilac05 said:

I wish we had an off-ramp available. Fewer hours in a less stressful position and more flexibility (as often doctors appointments increase as we age), but still a reason to stay physically and mentally active, have an income, and keep health insurance. Everyone talks about traveling in retirement, but that's really a privilege available to few (especially once you combine finances and health).

Yes to this part! I've really wished we could have more 'out'ternships (instead of internships) to allow older people to mentor, partially retire, pass on institutional knowledge and open up positions for younger people to be promoted. 

My school used to do this (along with a sabbatical year -- paid -- that you were eligible for after 15 years. Of course, they dropped it when I was at year 11...). We used to have a 3 year phased retirement -- full benefits, 80% pay -- and all you did was teach. No meetings, no advisory, no committees, no inservice days. You did what you do best, and you left for the day. I would LOVE that gig and I loved that it honored career teachers and allowed them to go out doing what they loved and what they were good at.

I am bitter that it feels like people my age are missing the previous benefits but aren't going to reap the rewards of what maybe is coming. We can't change course now, because we have kids hitting college and parents who we are caring for.

[longtimenopost]

Jan 16, 2024 9:14:32 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Someone once told me that having kids later will keep me young, so I hope that’s true. I’d like to retire in time to take care of grandkids.

Ideally, when I retire, I’d like to work/live in a senior animal rescue—-we can age together.

This was true for my mom! She had me at 36, but since I had kids when I was in my late 20s she was able to retire and sell her law practice at 62 and then take care of my kids for 2-3 days a week for the next 6 years until her second retirement. We still paid $1,500 a month in childcare between private preschool and a part time nanny, but I'm so grateful they got to spend that time with her and I believe they helped keep her young and strong. This was really only possible because of my dad's state pension plan, though. 

We are saving in a combo of state teacher retirement plans (both), a 401k (me), and Roth IRAs (both) and I'm hoping to retire at 64-65. Women in my family have longevity, and my grandma made it to 89 despite having been a smoker for many years. I expect my mom to go past 90. 

[fortnightlily]

Decoupling health insurance from employment would be huge. But yes, expecting people to just work nonstop and hoard every dollar until they're in their mid-60s+ to finally have the time and maybe the funds to pursue travel, hobbies, or part-time vocations is bullcrap.

[wildrice]

I have never really liked working, lol. I would love to retire as soon as I financially can do it, and I don't really think I'd get bored. I could list a number of organizations where I'd love to volunteer or be a board member, and there are plenty of hobbies I would likely enjoy pursuing if I had more time to do them. I could exercise more, spend more time visiting family, and read more. I am terrible at sitting at a desk all day working and if I could feel comfortable doing it, I'd probably be more suited for a gig type of work even now - so maybe I can do some gigs in retirement if I get bored.

However, my H and I got started on retirement planning late (mostly him due to getting a PhD in his 30s and not really entering the workforce until late in that decade) so I don't really know what our retirement realistically looks like. We try to travel and do a lot of fun things now, partly because I don't anticipate we'll be wealthier in retirement anyway and also partly because we don't take it for granted that we'll always be healthy or alive, so it's a priority to live for now. But there are obviously limits with vacation time and the downside of using our PTO to travel and visit people is that it feels like we never get time off to just BE. Sometimes you need a few days to do nothing or catch up on house stuff and I just don't get that when most holidays have to be strategically combined with PTO so we can go places. So eventually not having a PTO schedule and just having the freedom to do what we want to when we want to would be amazing.

I do not think anyone should have to work until they drop dead. I think we all should be paying into a system like social security so that we are set up to retire comfortably at a certain age. I think EVERYONE should be paid a living wage out of that pot, regardless of how much you worked or how much you made during your working years. It is scary SS isn't enough to live off of for anyone, period, and that women tend to end up with less because they are more likely to take time out of the workforce.

[janegold]

We're both planning to retire at 65. H probably won't want to retire earlier than that, whereas I would gladly retire sooner if we can manage it.