Backyard fence suggestions

[Susie]

We're trying to figure out how to (partially? fully?) fence our backyard and I would appreciate any suggestions on where you would put the fence, and how much to fence, if you were in our position.

In the map photo, our house has the purple star.  The lot is about 0.6 acre in total, about 350' deep, and wider at the front than the back.  There is a small creek (in blue) that runs across the back of our yard that forms a practical boundary, but we do own beyond it.  Right now there is woods and a field on the other side of the creek, although someday there may be a road passing through there.  It is in the town plan as future connector road between neighborhoods.

Nobody on our side of the street has fences, probably because the creek makes it pretty awkward to fence.  Our kids run from yard to yard with neighbor kids, and that's kind of nice.  

We want a fence of some kind, because we have two dogs that we want to allow to run off leash.  One is <1 year old, full of verve, and needs exercise.  Our next door neighbors are deathly afraid of dogs, but they built a play set this summer (yellow box) hugging the property line on our side.  This leaves no room at all for error, e.g., with a wifi or underground pet fence, especially with my dad's dog who visits and might not learn the underground fence perfectly.  I also think it would be really tough on our dogs to be outside without a physical barrier when the neighbor kids (and sometimes ours) are RIGHT THERE at the property line playing and screaming, etc.  Despite the challenges, I think a fence is best for everyone.

In addition to the creek, the terraced circle is the other major thing to work around.  It used to hold an above ground pool; now it's raised garden beds and a fire pit.  It takes up a lot of square footage and it's definitely not going to move/change.

The red lines show two rows of arborvitaes that are going to be removed eventually.  They basically were like privacy walls along the pool, when there was a pool there.  They've been pretty brutalized by deer.




(Not pretty, but recent photo of the backyard.  We just had it graded and French drains put in during 2023 so that rain runs off into the creek instead of puddling in the grass.)

So anyway, we can't decide how much to fence:

1.  Fence from the house down the sides, and leave the creek line open, relying on the natural boundary

2.  Fence from the house down the sides, and along just in front of the creek, and more or less give up practical use of land past the creek

3.  Fence just the upper half of the backyard (to somewhere roughly even with the neighbors' play structure) and leave a good portion of the lower yard outside the fence

4.  Fence just a deep/narrow portion as a dog run, along the side opposite the fire circle and the neighbors' play structure

5.  Something else

Any suggestions?

[definitelyO]

lovely lot!

I'm not a huge fan of dog runs as we like to play with our dogs in the yard.

My initial thought was 2 - BUT - with a gate opening to the creek/rest of wooded area.

are you thinking 6' privacy fence? or something lower (not sure of your dog size/zeal for jumping). If you do something lower like this I may consider option #3.

[definitelyO]

and I'm totally side-eying the "afraid of dogs" but put the play structure on YOUR side of the property line vs. the other side... (okay maybe it was the best fit - but come on)

[Susie]

Jan 18, 2024 19:34:35 GMT -5 definitelyO said:

and I'm totally side-eying the "afraid of dogs" but put the play structure on YOUR side of the property line vs. the other side... (okay maybe it was the best fit - but come on)

In fairness, a boxer lives on the other side of them, so that side isn’t any better. They could have gone closer to the middle though! Given how shrieky they can be when they see our dogs, I was a little 🙄 that they pushed so close to the line. Like, help me to help you! I am super looking forward to having a fence so I don’t have to be so stressed about perfect recall with the 11 month old (now 60 lbs). Even a dog with good recall can be super distracted by a shrieking, running kid.

I don’t plan to do privacy fence, although not 100% sure what we will do. We had cedar picket at our last house, 5’ tall on street facing side and 4’ on the sides/back per town zoning. Here I was considering black aluminum, in hopes of it sort of disappearing in certain seasons. Esp if we did option 3.

[laterz]

I vote for #2 with gate access at the creek. The dogs will love the space to run. I do not advocate for underground fences - some dogs drive to be free outweighs their fear of the shock. My dog growing up would've said, f*** your fence, i'll be back in a few hours.

[deadwing]

I agree with fencing the entire yard with a gate by the creek.

[bee20]

What are you currently using the area beyond the creek for? It looks like woods that a gate would be fine for, but if you're frequently back there and the dogs are doing ok without a fence I'd think the creek and a longer distance from your back door to the playset would be fine.

Maybe it's not great for neighbor relations, but could you put the dog run on that side to put a barrier around the playground? Could you just put a fence along that side?

[kitty]

I'd do #2, as far down as you mow, with a gate for access to the creek. If you are ever considering going back to a pool, I would consider #3 so you could have the pool fenced separately from the rest of the yard for kids playing with neighbors etc but otherwise I think #2 is more functional even though it will cost more.

[ssmjlm]

I would fence the whole thing, but do a lot of gates. We did a black metal fence last spring and visually doesn't break up the space a lot. We had to do the fence because of the pool and I did not want to fence just part of the yard.

We have 4 regular gates and one drive through gate. The only side w/o a gate is the side we have neighbors because we have no need to really go out on that side. We do have yard beyond the fence due to drainage ditches, so we had to make sure we could navigate the riding mower.

ETA: this is the best pic I could find, the fence just blends in with our landscape in the back.

[Susie]

Hmm.  So it sounds like option 2 is the most popular, but I'm curious how you all would actually do that.  

When I said "small creek," I'm not sure I accurately conveyed what's back there.  I meant small in that at most times of year the water volume is relatively low/shallow.  However, at other times it is very full, which has carved out a deep enough creek bed that a bridge is needed to get to the other side, and the creek bed is relatively deep despite only having water at the very bottom.  In the summer the creek might be 6" deep, but in very (brief) wet times it could be as much as several feet deep.  

To answer bee20 's question, we don't currently do anything with the land on the other side of the creek because we haven't prioritized building a bridge to it (and neither did any previous owners).  I've only gone across once or twice in the 2.5 years that we've lived here, and only at times when there was thick enough ice to cross the creek.  We've talked about a bunch of ideas including but not limited to:
 - building a bridge, clearing part of it, and building a lean-to for the kids to play in like a fort on the other side.  That would be pretty high effort, and we won't do this if the town looks like it's going to put in that road.  It sounds fun, but I'm not sure it's realistic.
 - building a bridge and a path to the road, if the town looks like it WILL put in that road.  The proposed roads would connect 3 neighborhoods that don't currently connect well, and it would open up a lot of new running routes for me.  If this came to pass we would probably increase plantings back there, mostly evergreens for privacy, and not do much else.  We would obviously need a gate between the fenced yard and the bridge.
 - not doing anything at all.  This has been the default while we work on the million other parts of the house we're working on since moving in.
 - regardless of what we do of the above, another thing I want to do is make and hang bat boxes in the trees, which are primarily on the far side of the creek.  Bats are fantastic natural mosquito control.

Bottom line, we are looking to fence the yard for the dogs much sooner than we expect to be ready to commit to anything for across the creek.
 
Initially fence plan #2 was my feeling too, I just can't figure out how to actually DO the fence with a gate and potentially a future bridge or something.  Right now grass grows all the way to the edge (which is not great for the mower.  Do we put the fence a few feet off the creek edge and plant non-grass ground covers?  IDK what this option looks like, exactly.

Another complication - not insurmountable, but a consideration - is that we have limitations on where we can put fence posts along the creek due to French drains that we put in to manage water.  I will PIP to illustrate in a min.

ETA:

This is the creek when it’s been full (doggo for scale, lol).



This is when it’s lower (and frozen, obv).  That's an almost 4' tall kid down in it.


These are the French drains going in (8/2023):

You can see where they are located in the pic upthread; the snow hangs longer on the French drains than the neighboring areas. There are 5 French drains in total. Fence posts won’t be able to go where the drains are; there's stone and flexible water lines that daylight out into the creek wall.

This is why we did the French drains, just as an aside. (The shed was removed during this project.)

[CrazyLucky]

From the picture, the land beyond the creek looks heavily wooded and not of much practical use anyway. Or do your kids like to play there? I would fence down to the creek and have a gate, like others have suggested. Even better if you can get some kind of see through fence like definitelyO, showed so you can still see it.
Another idea might be to put up a sort of zipline to tether the dogs to so they can run around a lot, but not reach the neighbors' yards. I mostly say this because we did a tiny amount of fencing and I was kind of shocked by the cost.

[InBetweenDays]

I like ssmjlm idea for the fence. It really blends in.

For the area between the fence and creek I'd do away with the grass and plant native plants, then maybe have a small path to access the creek. Better for your mower and much better for the creek/environment.

[lessel]

I'd do #3 with a gate in the back. It's going to be like cheaper by half or even more. Fences are silly expensive.

I'd do something like maybe put a path from the back gate to the creek, but otherwise would let it go a bit wild back there. Also cuts down on the size of the lawn you have to maintain.

ETA: Do you know if there is any city/county/etc. easement around the creek? We owned a home with a creek in the backyard and there were sewer lines adjacent to the creek. They did an upgrade project and in that process many homeowners learned there is a 10 foot easement on either side of the creek. Which meant the county tore down some sheds and fences in the easement and weren't required to replace them since they'd been built within the sewer easement. Might be another reason to keep the fence away from the creek.

[Susie]

Other possibly relevant info/answers:

 - No, kids don't currently play on the other side of the creek.  They'd like to, but at 4 and 8 we don't let them try to cross it.  It's too deep and steep, even when the water is low.

 - No chance of having a pool again in the future.  I spent too many years maintaining pools as a lifeguard to want to have my own.  

 - We do have plans to increase native plants / decrease lawn generally, although the specifics are overwhelming me.  I've picked out a few species that I want to use, including swamp milkweed and certain native ferns that would be suitable for the creek edge.  But I'm totally overwhelmed at creating the vision, and the landscaping and fence feel very tied together.  We're simultaneously also redoing almost all the beds around the house as well.  At this point I think we've removed all the invasive species from the lot (mostly Japanese barberry and Bradford pears) but we are starting from the ground up.  It's a lot.

- lessel, there is a "paper road" on the other side of the creek, and that's where I think the sewer lines run rather than on our side.  We do have one manhole cover on our side of the creek, that I think goes to the storm sewer line that runs from street to creek.  There doesn't seem to be an easement on the survey map of our property, but keeping that outside the fence would probably still be best.

[pandorica]

I would do #2 or 3. We like having most of our yard fenced for our dogs/kids so we can all be together outside and not worry about them. I would not fence right up to the creek. I would leave a buffer and stop mowing by the creek. Let native plants/shrubs grow up there - it's better for the environment and it will reduce erosion into the creek bed. Definitely include a gate at the back.

[pandorica]

Also, not sure if you meet all of the eligibility requirements for this without knowing your property dimensions, but something like this could help you out with trying to figure out how to landscape the creek edge.

dec.ny.gov/nature/forests-trees/saratoga-tree-nursery/trees-for-tribs#:~:text=DEC's%20Trees%20for%20Tribs%20is,and%20shrubs%20along%20these%20waterways.

I don't know why that link is copying strangely, but if it doesn't work google "trees for tribs"

[Susie]

Jan 19, 2024 12:51:19 GMT -5 pandorica said:

Also, not sure if you meet all of the eligibility requirements for this without knowing your property dimensions, but something like this could help you out with trying to figure out how to landscape the creek edge.

dec.ny.gov/nature/forests-trees/saratoga-tree-nursery/trees-for-tribs#:~:text=DEC's%20Trees%20for%20Tribs%20is,and%20shrubs%20along%20these%20waterways.

I don't know why that link is copying strangely, but if it doesn't work google "trees for tribs"

That's a cool program.  IDK whether we would meet the 50' requirement.  I checked our survey, and our property line at the back edge, about 30' past the creek, is 35'.  The linear footage along the creek would be more than that because the yard is wider there, but IDK if it's 15' wider.  It's probably close.  The property is 115' wide at the street, and the two sides are 346' and 357'.

[lust2hart]

I would do #3 with a gate at the back.

ETA: Perhaps a privacy (or, at least, a fairly opaque) fence on the sides (to cut down on the shrieking when your dogs are out) and a more visually-open fence along the back so you can still see the rest of your property. 

[mrsukyankee]

Jan 19, 2024 12:47:28 GMT -5 pandorica said:

I would do #2 or 3. We like having most of our yard fenced for our dogs/kids so we can all be together outside and not worry about them. I would not fence right up to the creek. I would leave a buffer and stop mowing by the creek. Let native plants/shrubs grow up there - it's better for the environment and it will reduce erosion into the creek bed. Definitely include a gate at the back.

This is what I'd do. Creeks don't always make a natural break for dogs - my last dog would go into the creek and feel that he had freedom beyond it. Definitely fencing will work better. 

I like what lust2hart said about privacy fencing so that the dog isn't impacted by seeing kids running around.

[libbygrl109]

I would do #2, with the back portion far enough up that you would have solid footing for the posts. Privacy fencing on the sides would help with skittish ones next door, and a more transparent stretch along the back (with a gate) so that you can still have a view of the stream (like what definitelyO posted). Put gates wherever you feel you're going to need easy access. Because we don't have a garage, we put 2 gates along our driveway - a single gate that leads straight to our back entrance, and a double gate that allows us to get through with the snowblower, lawnmover, and larger machine access should we ever have to have large-scale work done in the backyard.

[macmars45]

I grew up with a similar backyard. Ours wasn't fenced in and neighborhood kids/teenagers trashed our stream part of the property. My dad eventually fenced it off (with barbed wire and pink wire threaded through it so it was visible) so it wouldn't be full of trash, beer bottles and cigarettes etc. Then there was a flood that carried off the fence. We moved four years after that so it became someone else's problem.

I like option #2 ending well before the creek with a locked gate. I wouldn't mow on the creek side of the property except to tame the weeds as needed. Just let it be wild.

[icedcoffee]

#2 for sure with the fence on or just inside (depending on your laws) the property lines the whole way around and then in the back as far back as you need to mow. Then outside the fence I'd let mother nature go wild with whatever grows/forest. Weedwack a couple times a year if absolutely necessary.

If you put a gate on the creek side I really like the idea of making it a locking gate.

Honestly, I wouldn't like the idea of the creek with no fence (your kids aren't little anymore but visiting kids?) and I am little surprised no one on your street has fenced yet. And the previous owners with the pool and no fence. YOWSER.

We love having a fenced yard so much!

[sandandsea]

My sister had this at her old house and fenced the sides and then did a boxwire fence by the creek to allow the view still but close in the yard. She wanted the privacy also but you could do box wire all around to keep it more open looking but keep dogs in and deer out. It was the same height as a normal fence but had solid boards across the bottom. She also had it quite a bit away from the creek because of flooding and had a gate so they could access the creek

[expectantsteelerfan]

If you don't put a fence along the creek, will your dogs go into the creek if they are outside unsupervised?
Maybe you don't plan to leave them outside unsupervised and they will listen if you tell them not to go in the creek, but I know if my dogs were outside, they would IN that creek in seconds. So I would do #2, stop far enough away from the creek for rising water to not be an issue, and put SEVERAL gates in, at least one on each side of the fence, so your kids can still go yard to yard and access the creek.
When we moved into our current house (same time as you did lol), we were sad to see that there was a white picket fence along JUST the back of the flat part of our yard, but was connected to fencing along both of our neighbor's yards. There is a decent amount of wooded, pretty steep hill past the fence. We have 2 dogs, and we really wanted a fully fenced yard, but when we moved and got quotes, it made sense for us to continue using Invisible Fence (we had used it at our old house and were both already trained on it). We thought about taking the white fence down to let the dogs have the wooded hill to explore, but in the end we didn't, and in the time we've been here, we haven't missed not having access to that area AT ALL.
Our dogs do bark crazily when our kids are playing in the next door neighbor's yard right beyond where they are contained by the invisible fence, but they've never tried to breach it, and they would do the same even if there was a physical fence I'm sure. But I also get still wanting a physical fence...we would have friends bring their dogs over when they come and I would actually pet sit if we had a physical fence that made it safe for untrained dogs.