Non-Federal Workers Return to Office

[audette]

So, it looks like my employer is instituting a return to work on a large scale - all salaried employees are expected to be in the office for four days a week, starting one month from now.


Should be lots of fun at my building, where we literally run out of meeting rooms even with a chunk of folks working remotely, and have more folks assigned to the building than we have desks.  Oh, and more people assigned to our building than we have parking for - and there is no transit option that gets to our building, nor are there sidewalks to allow folks to safely hike in from the nearest transit options.



I am...  not a fan.  I work mostly on teams right now, because the people I routinely work with are located all over the planet.


Anyone have some good headphones recommendations?  The ones that IT provides are corded, have poor sound quality, and tear my hair out anytime I remove them from my head.  The bluetooth ones I bought to make do with in place of those have decent audio, but no sound cancelling on the mic, so folks on my calls can hear people 3-4 cubes away when I unmute.


Also, I guess this means I can retire the home office?  Goodbye to my (personal) paired 32" monitors...

[pixy0stix]

I started a new job where I'm required to be in office all days. Only one other person is here full time, and that's his choice. Apparently they tried to make people come back and people just ... didn't.

For the headphones look at gaming headphones.

[Susie]

One of my clients has been trying to hire for a FT in person in house counsel role for a while now.  Even in a pretty major market it seems to be taking a while, and I'm not surprised.  FT in person is rough these days.

I have a 2 days WFH / 3 core days in office schedule and I actually like that balance.

ETA:  I have these head phones and like them.  Soundcore Space Q45

[redheadbaker]

My job announced in December that anyone living within 30 miles of an office must go back one or two days a week -- whether it's one or two, AND which day of the week, is assigned to you -- you don't get to pick what works for you.

Edit: to answer your question, H has these headphones and likes them: https:// amzn.to/3w5qgS9

Sorry, wrong pair, this is the pair he uses when working from home: amzn.to/47XwctO

[glw]

I've asked this before, but I'm a researcher and this is my soapbox: Has anyone who works somewhere that is requiring RTO been shown any evidence that their company's performance/productivity/whatever measure was negatively affected by remote work? Actual evidence, not "Oh, CEO feels like there's less productivity because he can't watch people sitting at their desks..."
The biz journals keep churning out these pieces about how remote work is bad for "productivity" but then there is no data cited in support of that claim. There's not even a definition of what productivity means. *eye twitch


[I'm fully remote, permanently.]

[redheadbaker]

Jan 31, 2024 16:44:28 GMT -5 glw said:

I've asked this before, but I'm a researcher and this is my soapbox: Has anyone who works somewhere that is requiring RTO been shown any evidence that their company's performance/productivity/whatever measure was negatively affected by remote work? Actual evidence, not "Oh, CEO feels like there's less productivity because he can't watch people sitting at their desks..."
The biz journals keep churning out these pieces about how remote work is bad for "productivity" but then there is no data cited in support of that claim. There's not even a definition of what productivity means. *eye twitch

[I'm fully remote, permanently.]

We're not even being told it will "improve productivity." We're told it will "facilitate those spontaneous, in-person meetings" that we allegedly had before COVID (even though those never happened before). 

[glw]

Jan 31, 2024 16:46:03 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jan 31, 2024 16:44:28 GMT -5 glw said:

I've asked this before, but I'm a researcher and this is my soapbox: Has anyone who works somewhere that is requiring RTO been shown any evidence that their company's performance/productivity/whatever measure was negatively affected by remote work? Actual evidence, not "Oh, CEO feels like there's less productivity because he can't watch people sitting at their desks..."
The biz journals keep churning out these pieces about how remote work is bad for "productivity" but then there is no data cited in support of that claim. There's not even a definition of what productivity means. *eye twitch

[I'm fully remote, permanently.]

We're not even being told it will "improve productivity." We're told it will "facilitate those spontaneous, in-person meetings" that we allegedly had before COVID (even though those never happened before). 

[StrawberryBlondie]

Jan 31, 2024 16:44:28 GMT -5 glw said:

I've asked this before, but I'm a researcher and this is my soapbox: Has anyone who works somewhere that is requiring RTO been shown any evidence that their company's performance/productivity/whatever measure was negatively affected by remote work? Actual evidence, not "Oh, CEO feels like there's less productivity because he can't watch people sitting at their desks..."
The biz journals keep churning out these pieces about how remote work is bad for "productivity" but then there is no data cited in support of that claim. There's not even a definition of what productivity means. *eye twitch


[I'm fully remote, permanently.]

IIRC, there are some fairly credible studies that show that being in the office is helpful/increases productivity for people who are in brand new positions or just starting out in their careers. For those what have more than 3-5 years of experience, there's no difference.

Do I have those studies? No. But my old boss talked about it and he's not the sort to make those things up (and he also hated being in office).

[pixy0stix]

Jan 31, 2024 16:44:28 GMT -5 glw said:

I've asked this before, but I'm a researcher and this is my soapbox: Has anyone who works somewhere that is requiring RTO been shown any evidence that their company's performance/productivity/whatever measure was negatively affected by remote work? Actual evidence, not "Oh, CEO feels like there's less productivity because he can't watch people sitting at their desks..."
The biz journals keep churning out these pieces about how remote work is bad for "productivity" but then there is no data cited in support of that claim. There's not even a definition of what productivity means. *eye twitch


[I'm fully remote, permanently.]

I work for a CPA office. I feel like if anyone can quantify productivity levels it's them. After the one push I mentioned they stopped trying to force it. We're actually going to be moving to a much smaller physical office this year.

[noodleoo]

Jan 31, 2024 16:44:28 GMT -5 glw said:

I've asked this before, but I'm a researcher and this is my soapbox: Has anyone who works somewhere that is requiring RTO been shown any evidence that their company's performance/productivity/whatever measure was negatively affected by remote work? Actual evidence, not "Oh, CEO feels like there's less productivity because he can't watch people sitting at their desks..."
The biz journals keep churning out these pieces about how remote work is bad for "productivity" but then there is no data cited in support of that claim. There's not even a definition of what productivity means. *eye twitch


[I'm fully remote, permanently.]

Nope. My boss literally acknowledged that I was probably more productive at home, but my request to be fully remote was denied because the CEO “wants everyone back in the office”. Note he told me this on camera from his home office with his dog on his lap because he negotiated fully remote before Covid and no one is making him go back. In fact, my entire department leadership team is fully remote. We couldn’t recruit people to move to our HCOL area, so all our new hires are fully remote, but those of us who were hired before that are required to go back to the office. The hypocrisy is really demoralizing.

Of course they tried to make us all come back but most people aren’t going or going a lot less than required. Myself included. There is no point, the office is a ghost town and it’s really depressing being there. No one has fired me (yet, knock on wood).

[picksthemusic]

At my new job, I have 2 WFH days and 3 in office days. I like this balance, but my supervisor is very flexible with changing days or adding a day here and there.

[TR]

Jan 31, 2024 16:46:03 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jan 31, 2024 16:44:28 GMT -5 glw said:

I've asked this before, but I'm a researcher and this is my soapbox: Has anyone who works somewhere that is requiring RTO been shown any evidence that their company's performance/productivity/whatever measure was negatively affected by remote work? Actual evidence, not "Oh, CEO feels like there's less productivity because he can't watch people sitting at their desks..."
The biz journals keep churning out these pieces about how remote work is bad for "productivity" but then there is no data cited in support of that claim. There's not even a definition of what productivity means. *eye twitch

[I'm fully remote, permanently.]

We're not even being told it will "improve productivity." We're told it will "facilitate those spontaneous, in-person meetings" that we allegedly had before COVID (even though those never happened before). 

Ditto. They’ve literally said it’s not about productivity. It’s about the CuLtUrE. Even though we have offices and teams scattered about and a good amount of fully virtual employees so all of my meetings are still on Teams.

[k3am]

Jan 31, 2024 16:49:41 GMT -5 StrawberryBlondie said:

Jan 31, 2024 16:44:28 GMT -5 glw said:

I've asked this before, but I'm a researcher and this is my soapbox: Has anyone who works somewhere that is requiring RTO been shown any evidence that their company's performance/productivity/whatever measure was negatively affected by remote work? Actual evidence, not "Oh, CEO feels like there's less productivity because he can't watch people sitting at their desks..."
The biz journals keep churning out these pieces about how remote work is bad for "productivity" but then there is no data cited in support of that claim. There's not even a definition of what productivity means. *eye twitch


[I'm fully remote, permanently.]

IIRC, there are some fairly credible studies that show that being in the office is helpful/increases productivity for people who are in brand new positions or just starting out in their careers. For those what have more than 3-5 years of experience, there's no difference.

Do I have those studies? No. But my old boss talked about it and he's not the sort to make those things up (and he also hated being in office).

We have been back in person for a really long time. This is one of the reasons our CEO was touting yesterday, and I actually agree with him - mentoring/apprenticeship scenarios just work better in person. But I don't think it's all or nothing - 2-3 days in the office could serve the same benefit. 

As for me, in the many years I've been here, I have not had anyone to mentor or anyone mentor me, and 99% of my day is spent in an office on zooms, half of them with people in the same building. 

[agnes]

Jan 31, 2024 16:44:28 GMT -5 glw said:

I've asked this before, but I'm a researcher and this is my soapbox: Has anyone who works somewhere that is requiring RTO been shown any evidence that their company's performance/productivity/whatever measure was negatively affected by remote work? Actual evidence, not "Oh, CEO feels like there's less productivity because he can't watch people sitting at their desks..."
The biz journals keep churning out these pieces about how remote work is bad for "productivity" but then there is no data cited in support of that claim. There's not even a definition of what productivity means. *eye twitch


[I'm fully remote, permanently.]

government, but not federal here. my director has data that proves we were more productive working from home. Doesn’t matter to the CEO and the managers who just want butts warming the chairs in office. When they told us to come back 3 days a week we were being praised for our great work and dedication while also being told to it’s a privilege to wfh and to not slack off or it’ll get taken away

[audette]

At this point, I figure I'll wait a bit to see how this pans out. Our building is in the middle of a large renovation, which has already let us know that our entire building is off limits for nearly all of March. March being the month we are all supposed to be back in the office 4 days a week.

"we'll figure it out" is the answer so far from management, but I'll give them credit - our team/building management had the meeting today to head off the all-hands announcement tomorrow, and they only learned about this new policy today themselves, so they're still trying to figure out what all they need to figure out...


Either way, I foresee a whole lot of malicious compliance. If I go into the office, I'll have a set time I need to leave, and I won't be cracking my laptop open until I start work the next day. That's a situation nearly unheard of in the years we've been working remote... Heck, in my previous role, I ended up doing little bites of work on the weekends, because it helped certain testing I was doing...

[brooke77]

Technically, the policy is a minimum of 3 days in office firm-wide. My office no longer has the space for all employees to come in 3 days a week, so my office is 1 day a week. I, personally, am fully-remote because I moved during COVID and was granted offsite status.

Honestly, the in office days are non-productive. People come in around 9:30 and leave before 4. Very little work is done those days.

[redheadbaker]

Jan 31, 2024 19:05:01 GMT -5 TR said:

Jan 31, 2024 16:46:03 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

We're not even being told it will "improve productivity." We're told it will "facilitate those spontaneous, in-person meetings" that we allegedly had before COVID (even though those never happened before). 

Ditto. They’ve literally said it’s not about productivity. It’s about the CuLtUrE. Even though we have offices and teams scattered about and a good amount of fully virtual employees so all of my meetings are still on Teams.

Yeah, I'm the only one on my team in my state. When I pointed this out, they said to focus on collaborating with other teams. ::eyeroll::

[tealblue]

Do you have your noise suppression setting changed in teams?

I have mine set to high and when my dog comes and barks loudly at me, it’s barely noticeable to people on a call (this was just a casual chat where my dog was being annoying and my friend said she could barely hear the barking over the call).

support.microsoft.com/en-au/office/reduce-background-noise-in-microsoft-teams-meetings-1a9c6819-137d-4b3b-a1c8-4ab20b234c0d#:~:text=From%20the%20main%20Teams%20window&text=next%20to%20your%20profile%20picture,Noise%20suppression%2C%20select%20an%20option.&text=Auto%20(default)%20The%20Teams%20app,is%20best%20for%20most%20situations.

[livinitup]

I was chatting with some folks at one of my accounts when the HR person chimed in with a charming story. Apparently, they posted a FT remote position for an IT job they have had trouble filling as in-office **and whadda know** a fully qualified person applied who lived in the same town. Can you believe it?? But since he lived so close to the office for the job that was posted as 100% remote, they told him that he would have to come to the office 5 days a week.

He declined the position.

So, I had to ask - “Why did he have to come to the office?”

Answer: “Because he lived in the same town, of course.”

That was the whole answer. They posted a remote worker job to get the best shot at getting a good candidate and found one. But he’s not taking the job. And they will probably hire a remote worker anyway.

[laterz]

I'm in the office 3d/week - whichever days I choose. I spend most of my time either on phone calls, or locked away in an office to have manager conversations that no one else should hear.

I'm not hanging out by the water cooler, because i'm getting my shit done so i can leave before traffic is a nightmare. Apply that to all culture-y things.

I can live with 3d, but if they push for more, we're going to have words.

[zarapipe]

I wfh 2x a week and in office 3x. I would rather it be 2/3 but it’s okay. This is the first fully hybrid job I have had and would never ever trade it. I was working for a university during covid and we all had to come back full time in fall 2020- queue a mass exodus.

The office is being renovated in July and we should get to work fully remote for 4-6 weeks. Everyone is very excited.

[StrawberryBlondie]

We're 1-2 days in office/week. I can deal with that and take solace that we do not have the space to have everyone back more than that. It's pushing it with 2.

I'd prefer to be fully remote but I don't mind going to the office if there's a reason for me to be there. I hate being in the office on virtual meeting-heavy days.

[redheadbaker]

Jan 31, 2024 20:21:35 GMT -5 redheadbaker said:

Jan 31, 2024 19:05:01 GMT -5 TR said:

Ditto. They’ve literally said it’s not about productivity. It’s about the CuLtUrE. Even though we have offices and teams scattered about and a good amount of fully virtual employees so all of my meetings are still on Teams.

Yeah, I'm the only one on my team in my state. When I pointed this out, they said to focus on collaborating with other teams. ::eyeroll::

Oh and also, I use a Mac while most of the rest of marketing uses PCs. There are only 8 workstations with Mac ports (and possibly more Mac users then Mac workstations, but not sure), and they are no where near the workstations where the rest of marketing will be sitting. IT refuses to move the Mac workstations, and there isn't enough room for marketing to move near the Mac workstations.

So much collaboration.

[pixy0stix]

Jan 31, 2024 20:54:56 GMT -5 livinitup said:

I was chatting with some folks at one of my accounts when the HR person chimed in with a charming story. Apparently, they posted a FT remote position for an IT job they have had trouble filling as in-office **and whadda know** a fully qualified person applied who lived in the same town. Can you believe it?? But since he lived so close to the office for the job that was posted as 100% remote, they told him that he would have to come to the office 5 days a week.

He declined the position.

So, I had to ask - “Why did he have to come to the office?”

Answer: “Because he lived in the same town, of course.”

That was the whole answer. They posted a remote worker job to get the best shot at getting a good candidate and found one. But he’s not taking the job. And they will probably hire a remote worker anyway.

The stupid, it burns.

[AdaraMarie]

We are now supposed to be back in person 2 days a week "on average." Our office isn't big enough anymore for that and it is all open work stations. And going to client or project sites can count as one of your two days.
I like it. It hasn't been easy to get new people integrated over the last few years, especially those right out of school.
Most people who come in seem to work shorter days, but we work in billable hours so I think people are just working a little longer when they're not commuting.

[ellipses84]

I‘ve been juggling 2 jobs (that add up to 40-60 hours/ week) for the past 3.5 years remotely. It was supposed to be temporary for 1 year.
There’s been years of discussions about going full time at 1 part time job which would mean some office hours and I was putting them off for a long time. At the end of the summer I asked for a formal offer which I never got and mentioned some things to consider (like my years/ hours of work and not starting me out at zero years for vacation accrual). Things were a little crazy for my boss in the Fall, personally and professionally so in my last follow up we agreed to address it in the new year. I thought maybe she wanted me to go full time Jan. 1 but it never came up. My boss was promoted, I never see or talk to her and I feel weird about asking the person who took her old role, who I never work with. The manager I work most closely with moved recently, and I assumed it was a local move, but now I think he moved out of state and nobody told me! If I worked in the office more I’d know for sure 😆 This makes going into an office even more pointless for me. There’s pros and cons though.

The biggest con is that they highly recommended everyone local work 2 days / week in office and then later changed it to a mandatory M-W in office. I don’t think it will increase from there, and I know they are pretty flexible, like if you have an early meeting in a different timezone, WFH an extra day. My coworkers think I’m so lucky, that I shouldn’t give up a good thing and are pretty bitter about the mandate. I live further than most people but not as far as some and it’s about a 40 minute commute without traffic. I don’t want to go back to that grind of being stressed in bad traffic.

Pros would be paid vacation/ holidays and slightly better/ cheaper medical. DH may get a job offer in the spring nearby that office and in that case we’d move closer. I think I’d have better work life balance in some ways but I don’t know if that would make up for the extra hours of getting ready and driving.

[Velar Fricative]

I hate WFH so so much. I’ve been back in the office FT for a while but there are still allowances to WFH occasionally and when necessary (like before COVID). I may have to WFH today and I am dreading it. I know I won’t get as much work done.

Basically, my home chores are just staring at me all day when I WFH and I get distracted easily. I also genuinely like my colleagues and need to be around people. But, the nature of my job really wouldn’t allow me to WFH all the time effectively - I’m just more surprised at how much people like WFH, so I must be doing it wrong when I have to do it.

[fortnightlily]

Feb 1, 2024 5:46:34 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I hate WFH so so much. I’ve been back in the office FT for a while but there are still allowances to WFH occasionally and when necessary (like before COVID). I may have to WFH today and I am dreading it. I know I won’t get as much work done.

Basically, my home chores are just staring at me all day when I WFH and I get distracted easily. I also genuinely like my colleagues and need to be around people. But, the nature of my job really wouldn’t allow me to WFH all the time effectively - I’m just more surprised at how much people like WFH, so I must be doing it wrong when I have to do it.

Now that I've been WFH for years I think I'd like a hybrid schedule, 2 days in the office. But it'd have to be an easy commute. I have the option of going in right now but I don't because none of the people I work with are based out of the DC office and it's $15 and 45 to 60 minute to drive to Metro then take the train in.

[redheadbaker]

Feb 1, 2024 5:46:34 GMT -5 Velar Fricative said:

I’m just more surprised at how much people like WFH, so I must be doing it wrong when I have to do it.

If more of the colleagues I work directly with every day were also in the office, I'd be less angry. But as I said up-thread, I'm the only graphic designer (on my team of 8) in my state. The Editorial team members I work with most are on the West Coast. 

I'm going to be commuting (more gas $, more wear and tear on my car) to the office to work remotely with my colleagues rather than working with them remotely at home. 

I'm also an introvert -- chit-chatting and "being on" all day makes me exhausted. 

And in particular, our set-up (not getting to choose what day you go in, my workstation not being anywhere near the rest of the Marketing team) makes me angry. And the bullshit reason. No one is buying the "spontaneous in-person collaboration" crap.

My husband's team reworked THEIR in-office rotation so that H could be home to be with our senior dog on days I have to go to the office -- paying someone to come every 3 to 4 hours to let him out is not in our budget. 

[wildrice]

Jan 31, 2024 16:44:28 GMT -5 glw said:

I've asked this before, but I'm a researcher and this is my soapbox: Has anyone who works somewhere that is requiring RTO been shown any evidence that their company's performance/productivity/whatever measure was negatively affected by remote work? Actual evidence, not "Oh, CEO feels like there's less productivity because he can't watch people sitting at their desks..."
The biz journals keep churning out these pieces about how remote work is bad for "productivity" but then there is no data cited in support of that claim. There's not even a definition of what productivity means. *eye twitch


[I'm fully remote, permanently.]

There are probably actual studies around this out there that I haven't sought out, but I would guess that there isn't anything published that definitively say that one is better than the other. I work in, study, and teach in HR so I feel like if there was, I would have heard something about it? I don't sit around reading journals but I do generally pay attention to hot topics in HR so it would surprise me if this one was totally off my radar. And I agree, productivity is such a moving target as a goal anyway because in most fields it's relatively hard to measure.

I will say that there are a ton of studies that show things like having a close friend at work, feeling included, and having other positive interpersonal interactions are really important to engagement and retention. Those things are not impossible to accomplish in a remote environment, but they take a lot more effort and most organizations/managers aren't particularly good at facilitating that happening. I know for myself it took a lot longer for me to feel connected or like I knew much about how things work at my current job because I was almost 100% remote when I started, and my supervisor/team didn't do a very good job of bringing me in. I can see how someone more extraverted or with less career experience would have really struggled in a similar situation. 

Also, I would likely be looking for a new job if they made me come in 5 days a week now, so.... engagement is important but making people shift their lifestyle in a way they don't want to is not going to increase engagement either!