TikTok ban vote happening today

[glw]

I have not and will not download the TT app on any of my devices. While the content is certainly an issue (like X and other sites/apps), the data mining and tracking by a foreign govt is a hard no.
I'm in support of the ban.

[sent]

You can get your fill of influencer content on other platforms. I’m not worried about the “influencer industry.” They’ll figure it out.

I agree with this one. It’s about time we take a stand on something.

This could be the start of figuring out how to keep our data at home and definitely not happily feeding it into the hands of a known-to-be-shady government.

[aurora]

I'm totally on board with banning access to an app that is closely controlled by an anti-democratic foreign government*. There are so many ways this is different from partisan news web sites.

*ETA and that has been shown to not only push that government's propaganda but also to send user information back to it

[pixy0stix]

One other important note - they gave TikTok here the opportunity to divest from the China controlled arm and they refused. TikTok could still operate in the states if they wanted to.

[shauni27]

I will say I have not followed this closely until this thread and thank you to pixy0stix I have learned a boatload and gone and read more about this. I was fully anti ban, but you have me doing a 180 and now I have removed TT and support the ban.

This board also got me to switch away from Bernie in the 2016 election.

Social media CAN change minds, lol.

[pixy0stix]

Mar 14, 2024 6:55:14 GMT -5 shauni27 said:

Social media CAN change minds, lol.

Ha! Thank you for digging deeper.

This is one of those issues where it's super easy to fall along predictable "sides" if you don't take the time to actually understand the issues at play. The issue has never been about suppressing content generated by creators. It's always been about tech security and social media manipulation. You can go back to the very beginning when TikTok was released and find fairly extensive arguments where tech people were begging people to not install the ap because of how bad it is.

[meganew]

@@@@@

Social media and 30 second content has been absolutely horrific for young kids and their brain development. It’s only the tip of the iceberg, but I will be very happy to see it go.

[Nugget T. Brain, The OG]

I have TT on my phone and if anything I support this ban so I will stop buying shit I don't need off their shop from the videos I see.

Otherwise I only use it to watch BTS edits and makeup videos, so it's not like I can't find that material someplace else. 

[archiethedragon]

Mar 14, 2024 9:46:59 GMT -5 meganew said:

@@@@@

Social media and 30 second content has been absolutely horrific for young kids and their brain development. It’s only the tip of the iceberg, but I will be very happy to see it go.

I disagree to some extent.     Adult always think the new thing is horrible for kids.   Comics, rock and roll,  TV, video games, cell phones,  tik-tok...   I think the terribleness is usually vastly overblown. 

[meganew]

Mar 14, 2024 10:31:52 GMT -5 archiethedragon said:

Mar 14, 2024 9:46:59 GMT -5 meganew said:

@@@@@

Social media and 30 second content has been absolutely horrific for young kids and their brain development. It’s only the tip of the iceberg, but I will be very happy to see it go.

I disagree to some extent.     Adult always think the new thing is horrible for kids.   Comics, rock and roll,  TV, video games, cell phones,  tik-tok...   I think the terribleness is usually vastly overblown. 

I’m saying this as someone who has been a kindergarten teacher for 15 years, but don’t listen to me- listen to every other educator and pediatrician and child psychologist.

[noodleoo]

Mar 14, 2024 10:56:30 GMT -5 meganew said:

Mar 14, 2024 10:31:52 GMT -5 archiethedragon said:

I disagree to some extent.     Adult always think the new thing is horrible for kids.   Comics, rock and roll,  TV, video games, cell phones,  tik-tok...   I think the terribleness is usually vastly overblown. 

I’m saying this as someone who has been a kindergarten teacher for 15 years, but don’t listen to me- listen to every other educator and pediatrician and child psychologist.

I believe you, I see this with myself!  When I go to read longer articles, I often lost interest about halfway through.  It's terrible and I have to force myself to get through it, but it feels like my attention span has gotten so much worse and I'm guessing it is due to SM.

[somersault72]

Why is no one is thinking of my 51 year old husband?? He loves TT. LOL I'm so curious who he's going to be mad at for this.

I'm fine with TT being banned and I don't/won't have it on my phone. I bet most of the "ZOMG! they're gonna microchip ya!" people do though. Ha.

[ellipses84]

I’m against the ban right now because I think it’s a poor move for Democrats in an election year and if R’s win we’ll have way bigger issues as a country than TikTok (and I think we already do). If it passes, it will be banned in 5 months which will be very close to the election, although it will probably be contested in the court and delayed. This could wait a few more months. Passing a deeply unpopular law, especially with those under age 45, when there’s already so much talk about how old the presidential candidates are and how our federal representatives don’t match our countries demographics or support policies we care about is short sighted. Most people who don’t use it aren’t going to care that much either way, but it matters a lot to people who do use it and who feel they are not getting the world news they want to see from US sources or are making money from it (and those voices have a far reach). Dems could vote against this saying they want more comprehensive laws and use it as a campaign strategy if R’s still pass it.

If they want to pass laws about online or social media data harvesting or privacy across the board, I’m all for that. They should be well vetted though. I’m also all for limiting social media for minors whether by law or by parents. I don’t think it’s right to target one App. A lot of the issues mentioned are similar on all social media and there are issues with other types of Chinese owned apps and websites that are collecting tons of our data. They could be looking to other country’s examples for how to handle this.

I have a part time job that deals with federal contracts and we are not allowed to use TikTok on any device we use for work, including personal phones, and I’m fine with a law like that.

[carmenere]

I was in favor of the bill until Steve Mnuchin started talking about buying TikTok. The idea of the GOP having a ready-made propaganda machine in time for election season is terrifying.

[mcsangel2]

Mar 14, 2024 11:53:52 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

Mar 14, 2024 10:56:30 GMT -5 meganew said:

I’m saying this as someone who has been a kindergarten teacher for 15 years, but don’t listen to me- listen to every other educator and pediatrician and child psychologist.

I believe you, I see this with myself!  When I go to read longer articles, I often lost interest about halfway through.  It's terrible and I have to force myself to get through it, but it feels like my attention span has gotten so much worse and I'm guessing it is due to SM.

It absolutely affects adults too. I am/was a big reader, and since I 'discovered' reddit a couple of years ago, I'm pretty addicted to being able to jump around different subs for all my different interests. My ability to sit and read for any length of time has very very noticeably dropped. In 2022 I read 50 books and last year I read 27. So far this year I've finished 4 and have had 2 open for weeks. Ugh.

[pixy0stix]

Canada has ordered a full security review of TikTok. www.ctvnews.ca/politics/as-u-s-considers-tiktok-ban-canada-reveals-national-security-review-was-quietly-ordered-months-ago-1.6807265

[lilac05]

Mar 14, 2024 10:31:52 GMT -5 archiethedragon said:

Mar 14, 2024 9:46:59 GMT -5 meganew said:

@@@@@

Social media and 30 second content has been absolutely horrific for young kids and their brain development. It’s only the tip of the iceberg, but I will be very happy to see it go.

I disagree to some extent.     Adult always think the new thing is horrible for kids.   Comics, rock and roll,  TV, video games, cell phones,  tik-tok...   I think the terribleness is usually vastly overblown. 

I know what you mean, but they’re accruing actual data on this topic, and there’s just not evidence that it’s NOT hurting all of us. I actually just listened to a 3 hour podcast on this yesterday on The Huberman Lab. It wasn’t at all related to TT itself, but deep thinking, attention span, focus, etc. I think the effects are VERY significant, for people of all ages. My hypothesis is that the significant increase in ADHD in adults is not just due to increase in information/access, but an actual shift. (FWIW, our psychiatrist agrees. He thinks our constant access to technology is doing some pretty terrible things to our brains, and we’re just beginning to scratch the surface of the impacts.)

[mala]

I keep getting emails about signing up for tiktok shop, and I've gotten a few requests from customers too. That's a fuck no from me, no thank you.

[erbear]

@@@

I had a moment today in my class (8th grade) that illustrated this perfectly. They could not understand why it wasn't just old people being old bringing on this ban. I tried to explain disinformation and how that could be dangerous, especially in an election year, and why having their security data in the hands of a foreign government might be a bad thing. One said, "who cares who has my social security number? I don't even have a banking account!"

My dude. This is why the government is grown-ups.

[aspentosh]

Mar 14, 2024 11:53:52 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

Mar 14, 2024 10:56:30 GMT -5 meganew said:

I’m saying this as someone who has been a kindergarten teacher for 15 years, but don’t listen to me- listen to every other educator and pediatrician and child psychologist.

I believe you, I see this with myself!  When I go to read longer articles, I often lost interest about halfway through.  It's terrible and I have to force myself to get through it, but it feels like my attention span has gotten so much worse and I'm guessing it is due to SM.

I see this with my H. He will just get lost watching reels on IG (we don't have TT). An hour will go by for him and he has no clue it's been that long. I feel like his attention span is horrible now. 

[pixy0stix]

Mar 15, 2024 10:56:33 GMT -5 erbear said:

@@@
My dude. This is why the government is grown-ups.

TBF - most grownups don't understand.

[pixy0stix]

I'm disappointed in my favorite Canadian influencers who met with the president (?) of North American TikTok yesterday and posted pro-TikTok propaganda.

[fernweh]

Mar 15, 2024 13:31:58 GMT -5 aspentosh said:

Mar 14, 2024 11:53:52 GMT -5 noodleoo said:

I believe you, I see this with myself!  When I go to read longer articles, I often lost interest about halfway through.  It's terrible and I have to force myself to get through it, but it feels like my attention span has gotten so much worse and I'm guessing it is due to SM.

I see this with my H. He will just get lost watching reels on IG (we don't have TT). An hour will go by for him and he has no clue it's been that long. I feel like his attention span is horrible now. 

My too. I never really used social media pre-pandemic but I got into a bad doom scrolling habit and now I feel like I can’t focus on anything for more that a few minutes. I have to figure out a way to reverse it.

[loira]

Mar 15, 2024 13:40:44 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I'm disappointed in my favorite Canadian influencers who met with the president (?) of North American TikTok yesterday and posted pro-TikTok propaganda.

They are probably just hoping that TikTok will finally start paying Canadian content creators.

[erbear]

Mar 15, 2024 13:38:46 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Mar 15, 2024 10:56:33 GMT -5 erbear said:

@@@
My dude. This is why the government is grown-ups.

TBF - most grownups don't understand.

True true.

[AJL]

Mar 13, 2024 11:18:37 GMT -5 k3am said:

Mar 13, 2024 10:57:01 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

My point is that tiktok is targeted when other longstanding and dangerous disinformation sources are not. Either all should be banned or none. No one is picthing their forks at fox, and they are pretty horrible.

Regardless, it's the internet. No ban is going to work. 

And, yes, I did praise twitter. I hate them and hate elon for sure, but it's been a good resource. Targeting user sites and ignoring corporate does not sit right with me.

Why would a ban not work? China bans half the internet, so clearly, apps can be banned. 

I mean, is that really what you want? I don't think how China bans information access is really the gold standard we should be emulating. 

I understand that fear and risk that the legislature is trying to confront, but I also think this is about getting the upper hand on how foreign governments are able to manipulate information and data globally. The U.S. would prefer to have the upper hand in controlling the means of information. It always has. We're just seeing more powerful means of distribution like electronic sources than in the past (i.e. newspapers, broadcasts, radio, etc.)  It's about power. It has nothing to do with protecting American's from propaganda. 

I'm an ardent supporter of the first amendment and I'm not supportive of the TT ban. I also understand that "news" has been more and more difficult to critically discern in the last couple of decades. 

Edit: Yes, the amount of data mined from online activity, including TT, is mind boggling to me and I do understand that security risk implications. Even knowing that I'm still not totally on board with a ban of the app in the U.S. 

[basilosaurus]

TBF, I'm not at all comfortable with China owning tt and mining data. I never have and never will use it, although not just for that reason.

I just think it's naive to think they're the only government or corporation that isn't using our gladly given data for potentially nefarious purposes. Ban tt, and you end up with whack a mole.

Also, I have plenty of friends/clients in China who just use VPNs. I used my VPN when I was there and wanting google maps. I did briefly have to install wechat for some clients, and I hated that, and I refuse to activate it or wepay on my watch, but I've resigned myself that if I'm going to be online in any capacity, my data is out there. I do always have my VPN activated, but that's of course not failproof either.

[sent]

Mar 16, 2024 11:28:20 GMT -5 AJL said:

Edit: Yes, the amount of data mined from online activity, including TT, is mind boggling to me and I do understand that security risk implications. Even knowing that I'm still not totally on board with a ban of the app in the U.S. 

My wishful thinking is that this is the first step of something that will hopefully go beyond TikTok.

Change Healthcare was recently hacked in a huge way. This shut down claims and payment processing to all pharmacies and a huge number of hospitals and doctor's offices around the country. Change Healthcare is owned by United Healthgroup so United Healthcare/Optum, a gigantic insurance company. I'm finally seeing articles asking why is our medical info being sent out of the country in the first place - when you call customer service and get routed to India or the Philippines all the time. Some $4/hr customer service agent in another country can see your entire medical history and all the medications you take. Security risk and all that. I'm being very simplistic in describing this as tech is not my forte, but it's all very bad.

We should be protecting the data of our citizens and not putting it out there to be easily intercepted by other countries. Big companies aren't voluntarily going to do that unless the government forces them. I think this TikTok ban is a start to that.

[k3am]

Mar 16, 2024 11:28:20 GMT -5 AJL said:

Mar 13, 2024 11:18:37 GMT -5 k3am said:

Why would a ban not work? China bans half the internet, so clearly, apps can be banned. 

I mean, is that really what you want? I don't think how China bans information access is really the gold standard we should be emulating. 

I understand that fear and risk that the legislature is trying to confront, but I also think this is about getting the upper hand on how foreign governments are able to manipulate information and data globally. The U.S. would prefer to have the upper hand in controlling the means of information. It always has. We're just seeing more powerful means of distribution like electronic sources than in the past (i.e. newspapers, broadcasts, radio, etc.)  It's about power. It has nothing to do with protecting American's from propaganda. 

I'm an ardent supporter of the first amendment and I'm not supportive of the TT ban. I also understand that "news" has been more and more difficult to critically discern in the last couple of decades. 

Edit: Yes, the amount of data mined from online activity, including TT, is mind boggling to me and I do understand that security risk implications. Even knowing that I'm still not totally on board with a ban of the app in the U.S. 

My post did not mention whether I support or don’t support a ban, just disputing the notion that a ban “can’t” work.

[basilosaurus]

I'm amused at the gop confusion that trump was for a ban before he was against it. And now he's aligning with some of the most left members. They quickly abandoned bipartisan border control at his hint they should. They have to be wondering wtf they're supposed to do now. 

But, follow the money. Trump needs it, Yass has it. Kellyanne is lobbying for tt, presumably paid by Yass.