TikTok ban vote happening today

[pixy0stix]

wapo.st/3vgxVgr

[pixy0stix]

The House passed the ban, now on to the Senate.

A news report I listened to this morning said that Biden would sign the ban should it get to him.

[melissa]

I'm probably in the minority here but I'm actually a fan of TikTok. I've gotten a lot of good recipes, watch funny videos but more importantly I have learned more news information through the app than from actual news broadcast stations.

[pixy0stix]

Mar 13, 2024 10:17:56 GMT -5 melissa said:

I'm probably in the minority here but I'm actually a fan of TikTok. I've gotten a lot of good recipes, watch funny videos but more importantly I have learned more news information through the app than from actual news broadcast stations.

I think most people here don't want TikTok banned. I'm pretty much the only one for it.

The "news" (quotes absolutely meant) from TikTok isn't actual news.

[basilosaurus]

Mar 13, 2024 10:24:12 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Mar 13, 2024 10:17:56 GMT -5 melissa said:

I'm probably in the minority here but I'm actually a fan of TikTok. I've gotten a lot of good recipes, watch funny videos but more importantly I have learned more news information through the app than from actual news broadcast stations.

I think most people here don't want TikTok banned. I'm pretty much the only one for it.

The "news" (quotes absolutely meant) from TikTok isn't actual news.

But fox is? I think this is meaningless and mostly just anti younger generation. Until we limit all that harmful disinformation I'm not inclined to worry about tiktok. I think most people understand that internet "news" isn't news, but they trust their tvs which is far worse.

We have actually learned a lot of proper information from tiktok and before that twitter that never would have made it to broadcast.

[pixy0stix]

I had to switch to the computer because the "It's where I find all my breaking news, etc." really fires me up. Would you get your news from X as it is now? Especially since it's begun pushing fake and biased storylines? No, you wouldn't. Or at least according to the last poll we had here about it, most people wouldn't. TikTok has been using that same algorithm from the beginning. You see what a foreign hostile government wants you to see. All other storylines are suppressed. Sure, you might see a few other items that don't align with what the majority are being pushed, but that's not the norm. There's been story after story in (verified) news sites about how TikTok handles news, and none of them are flattering towards the platform.

And the posts you're shown is just the tip of the iceberg about everything that's wrong with the ap. Banning TikTok is an overwhelmingly bipartisan issue in a government that is sharply divided about everything else.

[janegold]

There has been a slew of proposed legislation, executive orders, and rulemaking in the last few weeks that are trying to restrict data sharing with China and other countries of "concern" for national security reasons. It will be really interesting to see where it all goes and how it affects US business relationships.

Personally, I don't care about TikTok one way or another, and I think carefully considering where data is going and how it's being used is a good thing.

[pixy0stix]

Mar 13, 2024 10:33:18 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Mar 13, 2024 10:24:12 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I think most people here don't want TikTok banned. I'm pretty much the only one for it.

The "news" (quotes absolutely meant) from TikTok isn't actual news.

But fox is? I think this is meaningless and mostly just anti younger generation. Until we limit all that harmful disinformation I'm not inclined to worry about tiktok. I think most people understand that internet "news" isn't news, but they trust their tvs which is far worse.

We have actually learned a lot of proper information from tiktok and before that twitter that never would have made it to broadcast.

Who said shit about FOX news? No one did. This is a red herring argument.

[sugarbear1]

Good. Get rid of it. You can get recipes from Instagram.

[noodleoo]

The NYT Morning Newsletter had a good analogy. I'm not a TT user so it won't affect me if it is banned, but I'm uncomfortable with the idea that the Chinese government is controlling what news stories people in the US are seeing.

As an analogy, imagine if a U.S. company with close ties to Washington were a leading source of news in China today. Or imagine if a Soviet organization owned a U.S. television network in the 1960s — and it was a leading news source for Americans under 30.

[basilosaurus]

Mar 13, 2024 10:36:25 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Mar 13, 2024 10:33:18 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

But fox is? I think this is meaningless and mostly just anti younger generation. Until we limit all that harmful disinformation I'm not inclined to worry about tiktok. I think most people understand that internet "news" isn't news, but they trust their tvs which is far worse.

We have actually learned a lot of proper information from tiktok and before that twitter that never would have made it to broadcast.

Who said shit about FOX news? No one did. This is a red herring argument.

My point is that tiktok is targeted when other longstanding and dangerous disinformation sources are not. Either all should be banned or none. No one is picthing their forks at fox, and they are pretty horrible.

Regardless, it's the internet. No ban is going to work. 

And, yes, I did praise twitter. I hate them and hate elon for sure, but it's been a good resource. Targeting user sites and ignoring corporate does not sit right with me.

[pixy0stix]

Mar 13, 2024 10:57:01 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Mar 13, 2024 10:36:25 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Who said shit about FOX news? No one did. This is a red herring argument.

My point is that tiktok is targeted when other longstanding and dangerous disinformation sources are not. Either all should be banned or none. No one is picthing their forks at fox, and they are pretty horrible.

Regardless, it's the internet. No ban is going to work. 

And, yes, I did praise twitter. I hate them and hate elon for sure, but it's been a good resource. Targeting user sites and ignoring corporate does not sit right with me.

Twitter has NEVER been a good resource for news.

I think the proliferation of aps and websites that push opinions vs actual news are the reason why our democracy is failing. We can't distinguish fact from fiction anymore.

[archiethedragon]

we need Walter Cronkite back. Can they turn him into an app?

[k3am]

Mar 13, 2024 10:57:01 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Mar 13, 2024 10:36:25 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Who said shit about FOX news? No one did. This is a red herring argument.

My point is that tiktok is targeted when other longstanding and dangerous disinformation sources are not. Either all should be banned or none. No one is picthing their forks at fox, and they are pretty horrible.

Regardless, it's the internet. No ban is going to work. 

And, yes, I did praise twitter. I hate them and hate elon for sure, but it's been a good resource. Targeting user sites and ignoring corporate does not sit right with me.

Why would a ban not work? China bans half the internet, so clearly, apps can be banned. 

[basilosaurus]

Mar 13, 2024 11:00:57 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Mar 13, 2024 10:57:01 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

My point is that tiktok is targeted when other longstanding and dangerous disinformation sources are not. Either all should be banned or none. No one is picthing their forks at fox, and they are pretty horrible.

Regardless, it's the internet. No ban is going to work. 

And, yes, I did praise twitter. I hate them and hate elon for sure, but it's been a good resource. Targeting user sites and ignoring corporate does not sit right with me.

Twitter has NEVER been a good resource for news.

I think the proliferation of aps and websites that push opinions vs actual news are the reason why our democracy is failing. We can't distinguish fact from fiction anymore.

Twitter has actually been a good source for people in other countries that are restricted in order to get out news of what's been happening. It's allowed the world to see, too.

I agree there are big problems with it being unregulated, and I'll reiterate I hate musk.

In the mid 90s I was taught we weren't able to distinguish truth because wikipedia existed. But we learned pretty quickly. We've certainly done it here to the point where it's a joke to cite your source. I will stand by saying fox on every tv is worse. I cannot tell you how many military rooms and military hospitals have it on nonstop. And no one is questioning their bullshit. People should be but are not calling to restrict them.

And you can never quiet the internet for better or for worse.

Let me hear these same people yelling about fox news spreading lies. They will never.

Also, tiktok, twitter, they've allowed people to meet, people whose societies rejected them for being a different color or sexuality, or religion. I don't want to see that shut down. Go after fox first. 

[basilosaurus]

Mar 13, 2024 11:18:37 GMT -5 k3am said:

Mar 13, 2024 10:57:01 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

My point is that tiktok is targeted when other longstanding and dangerous disinformation sources are not. Either all should be banned or none. No one is picthing their forks at fox, and they are pretty horrible.

Regardless, it's the internet. No ban is going to work. 

And, yes, I did praise twitter. I hate them and hate elon for sure, but it's been a good resource. Targeting user sites and ignoring corporate does not sit right with me.

Why would a ban not work? China bans half the internet, so clearly, apps can be banned. 

Firstly, we're not China. Also, it's very easy to get around Chinese bans with VPN. I don't understand this question. People will do what they can to subvert any ban. Once it's online it's in the world.

[pixy0stix]

Mar 13, 2024 11:19:00 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Also, tiktok, twitter, they've allowed people to meet, people whose societies rejected them for being a different color or sexuality, or religion. I don't want to see that shut down. Go after fox first. 

I'm not going to post, again for the third or fourth time, all the ways that TikTok has actively suppressed LGBTQ+ stories, stories from people of color, or other minority communities. I'm not going to post again how TikTok has blatantly promoted one side of conflict over another.

We cannot talk about Fox news because Fox news is an American company. Again, the content suppression or promotion is the LEAST of the issues here.

I understand why this is wildly unpopular. People have done a risk assessment and deemed it safe. May I remind you that people are not, historically, the best at determining risk assessment. See climate change, how long it took to get people to stop smoking, and antivaxxers to name a few issues where people felt it safe to continue to do what they want to do despite the evidence against their actions.

[pixy0stix]

Mar 13, 2024 11:21:36 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Mar 13, 2024 11:18:37 GMT -5 k3am said:

Why would a ban not work? China bans half the internet, so clearly, apps can be banned. 

Firstly, we're not China. Also, it's very easy to get around Chinese bans with VPN. I don't understand this question. People will do what they can to subvert any ban. Once it's online it's in the world.

They'll ban it from ap stores. Sure some people will do a workaround, but once sponsor etc start pulling out, and people can't download the ap, it'll effectively die. 

[Deleted]

I hate Fox News too. Vehemently. I hate that they exist, and wish they would go away. But the difference isn’t that another COMPANY is promoting a false narrative, it’s that another GOVERNMENT is. The Chinese Government is actively and purposefully pushing disinformation to manipulate our political system. And it’s working. If Fox News was actually owned by a company with very close ties to the Russian Government, we would ban it too.

I feel bad for the people who make their living as influencers, who have figured out how to make money using TikTok’s algorithms in their favor. I also feel bad that coal miners might lose their jobs, but I still think we should stop mining coal because it’s actively destroying our planet.

[pixy0stix]

Social media influencers will survive. Within the last several years they've gone from Vine, to Snapchat, to YouTube, to Instagram... They'll be ok.

[taratru]

I'll be honest in that I've not paid very close attention to this, so apologies if I'm missing something.

I do wonder about the slippery slope of this. Sure, Fox isn't owned by a foreign government, but it's owned by a family who would like to see damage done to our democracy and has pushed dangerous and patently false narratives. So what's the difference? Citizenship? As long as an American is doing the damage (looking at you, Elon and Mark), we are okay? Where is the line? The standard? Who gets to decide?

I may not be comparing the right things, but I'm not sure banning TikTok is the solution here. Living in a country where the news is state-controlled makes me question bans.

[pixy0stix]

Again, the content of the ap is the least of it.

The ap tracks where you are, what you're doing, what pictures and videos you take, what other apps you have, who you associate with, etc. And I know the argument is "so do other apps!" BUT the other apps are regulated by US rules and regulations. TikTok raw data is fed directly to a foreign government.

"But no one cares about what I do, I'm irrelevant." Actually so much data can be mined from phones as a complete whole that it's ridiculous. Traffic patterns, spending habits, school locations, what media you're consuming, picking up on key words in your conversation to determine what's being talked about that day, medical information, and on and on...

[kath16]

Mar 13, 2024 11:43:38 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Social media influencers will survive. Within the last several years they've gone from Vine, to Snapchat, to YouTube, to Instagram... They'll be ok.

i am very lol at "won't someone think of the influencers"

i know that wasn't specifically said but my mind went there. 

and yes, of course there are good, legitimate content creators. they'll be fine. 

[Deleted]

Mar 13, 2024 12:58:19 GMT -5 kath16 said:

Mar 13, 2024 11:43:38 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Social media influencers will survive. Within the last several years they've gone from Vine, to Snapchat, to YouTube, to Instagram... They'll be ok.

i am very lol at "won't someone think of the influencers"

i know that wasn't specifically said but my mind went there. 

and yes, of course there are good, legitimate content creators. they'll be fine. 

This has been one of the bigger counter-arguments to banning the platform. Maybe not mentioned specifically in this thread, but it’s been mentioned in many of the news stories I’ve heard. Of course it’s generally the content creators themselves who are making this argument.

[basilosaurus]

Mar 13, 2024 11:30:10 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Mar 13, 2024 11:21:36 GMT -5 basilosaurus said:

Firstly, we're not China. Also, it's very easy to get around Chinese bans with VPN. I don't understand this question. People will do what they can to subvert any ban. Once it's online it's in the world.

They'll ban it from ap stores. Sure some people will do a workaround, but once sponsor etc start pulling out, and people can't download the ap, it'll effectively die. 

And there will be another. And if it's popular enough they'll get sponsors, too.

I'm not arguing this is a good site. I just think it's futile to ban it no matter what I think of it and its Chinese tracking.

I just think it's a distraction from the influence of fox and similar. Those are in our purview, our airwaves, and they definitely peddle disinformation paid for by Russia.

Am I the only one thinking china Russia America always are tracking us? And if I use a device I accept this will happen.

If you're using the internet you're being tracked. By everyone. No American ban of a site will change this.

[wildrice]

I have very mixed feelings about this. I really enjoy TikTok and definitely get some "news" there, but I am also always somewhat skeptical of what I hear unless I'm able to verify it elsewhere. The fact that you have to think twice about things you hear on the app could be very dangerous to someone younger/less educated/less used to looking at things with a critical eye than I am, and I'm certainly not perfect at it myself. I also do see a lot of "America is the worst country" stuff on Tiktok which, fair, lots of things suck here but I wonder what hearing that message over and over again is doing to us, myself included. The fact that my receipt of that message is controlled by a Chinese app is a little unsettling.

The app is also very good at figuring out what you're into and showing you more of it, so I can see it being a very dangerous place for people who have alt right beliefs or conspiracy theories or whatever. I don't see any of that because I'm not into it, but I do see a ton of things that just reinforce MY beliefs that could also be incorrect.

That said I do enjoy watching videos and a lot of the content I view is just fluff (gossip stories, cute animals, travel tips, stuff related to TV shows I'm watching, etc) that I would be sad to lose access to. I also do get a decent amount of clips from actual news programs/late night shows come across my feed and I probably wouldn't see a lot of that otherwise, so I think that's a positive thing. I don't know what the answer is but I do wish there was a comparable app owned by a less sketchy source. Not that the other social media apps we have are any less sketchy by being American, though...

[pixy0stix]

I don't know how to reach people that think TikTok is similar to other apps and websites. If you can't see the inherent difference between government owned data collection and other data collection that is regulated than our discussion is at a standstill.

I will say it's bizarre to have this convo on a board that was completely up in arms about the US government collecting data through the NSA, but is shoulder shruggy about this. What is the difference? Have we grown complacent?

[pixy0stix]

Also, if this is a slippery slope where all companies have to evaluate their data mining, where's my sled. Let's fucking go.

[audette]

Mar 13, 2024 13:49:46 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I don't know how to reach people that think TikTok is similar to other apps and websites. If you can't see the inherent difference between government owned data collection and other data collection that is regulated than our discussion is at a standstill.

I will say it's bizarre to have this convo on a board that was completely up in arms about the US government collecting data through the NSA, but is shoulder shruggy about this. What is the difference? Have we grown complacent?

I'll raise my hand as someone that agrees with you on this.  They are very different things.

I won't install it on a device I own, I have discouraged people in my life to avoid it, as well.  Some successfully, some less so.  I get that the platform is fun, but I don't want to just hand all that data to a foreign government.  We can, at least, make them work a bit to get it...

[ssmjlm]

Any influencer will 100% tell you that putting all your $ into one platform is ridiculous, you have to be across platforms.

I don't even know how the ban would be enforced, I do think the data mining aspect is the part people need to focus on.


We could also use a budget for us govt workers... as I sigh into the void.