I would love to see data that compares the instant messages and chat rooms of our generation with smart phones and kids of current generations. I'm betting that there would be a similar result with online bullying, self esteem, and mental health. You're just changing the platforms kids had access to.
And I'm also curious that if the mental health issues are because we're more in tune with the signs because we were there and no one got us help or told us to suck it up.
The change in mental health in just the last 10-20 years is a result of self awareness and not giving it a stigma. I'm not sure I would say it's because it exists more now than then.
I think as a parent, middle school is a really pivotol time for kids and that includes their own phone. I just wish there were more resources for parents and kids on internet safety and conversations to have. I feel like I'm saying the right things and trying to warn her of internet dangers on a near constant basis, but I'm not sure she's getting the message from me (either because she doesn't believe me or because I'm her uncool mom, etc).
I don't think that's true. The teen suicide rate has risen dramatically in the last 15 years.
Post by jeaniebueller on Mar 20, 2024 13:16:15 GMT -5
i would suggest as a compromise to get her a basic flip phone, that way she can text and communicate with them. I would not do a smartphone if i didn't have to, especially if she is prone to drama. as to social media, i have a 9th grader and just let him get snapchat this year. i did not let him do any SM prior to that. i would be firm about that.
ETA: my kid reads a book on the bus at times and literally noone cares lol
Another plus to getting a phone in middle school is it gives them time to learn and adjust to the responsibility before high school. I had all the parental controls on dd’s phones but reluctantly took off some this year (9th grade), when on three separate occasions teachers told the students to download apps in class and she could not - because I had it set that she needed permission. I was on a work calls and didn’t see the notification the first 2 times this happened. She was so embarrassed when a teacher called her out for not completing the assignment and she said she was waiting for permission from me. Two of the apps were for fundraisers, the other was a tuner for music.
I know this is besides the point, but is it a school requirement to have a phone with app capability? I assume your child goes to a school where everyone is upper middle class and above?
I work with teens and there are a lot who don’t have smart phones. I can’t imagine requiring a child to download an app and then reprimanding them for not having such app. That’s fucked up. I would definitely talk to the teacher. But if the school requires everyone to have a functioning smart phone with unlimited access to apps then I guess that would make sense.
I’ve had a similar experience with my 7th grader. She has to request apps and have them approved. She showed the teacher her phone and told her she had to wait. I was very WTF and almost called DD to I could speak to the teacher lol. Teachers have just come to expect the kids have phones and access.
Post by wanderingback on Mar 20, 2024 16:57:28 GMT -5
I don’t have data to back this up but I do think that chat rooms in our generation vs smart phone now are different in regards to socializing.
I really try not to judge but I do see kids out at dinner or at the park with their family or at an event with their heads in their phones the entire time not speaking to anyone. When we used chat rooms it was at home, typically for a defined amount of time in my experience.
So I do think having your face in a phone all day long definitely changes the ways you interact socially in real life and how you view the world (or not view the world since your head is always down!).
wanderingback that is my bigger fear with my daughter having a phone vs self esteem issues, friend drama, or dangerous people trying to contact her or whatever - just the constant distraction and not observing the world or socializing without it. I am more addicted to my phone than I want to be and knowing how hard it is for an adult to control, it is harder for a kid.
My girls are only 9 and 6, so I'm out over my skis in this thread. That said, I've attended a local meeting for parents interested in learning more about Wait Until 8th, and at this point, that's our family's plan. My biggest takeaway from that meeting was that the initiative works (better?) by getting buy-in from enough families so that no student can truly be "the only one" without a phone. I don't see that mattering to my children if the others without phones aren't in their social circles, but I do see it having a real impact if they each have even one friend whose family holds out similarly.
wanderingback that is my bigger fear with my daughter having a phone vs self esteem issues, friend drama, or dangerous people trying to contact her or whatever - just the constant distraction and not observing the world or socializing without it. I am more addicted to my phone than I want to be and knowing how hard it is for an adult to control, it is harder for a kid.
Yes exactly. That’s why I do think a phone where you can text and call is all that is necessary for younger kids. Even if they have access to a computer that is different than having access to a screen in your hand all day. I think it’s fine to incrementally work up to things as kids become more mature and responsible.
Post by longtimenopost on Mar 21, 2024 7:57:10 GMT -5
My 11 year old 5th grader got a phone, mainly because we don't have a home phone and we started leaving her home for an hour or so at a time. It's locked down with google family. I can see her activity and if she uses it in a negative way, for ex. to say mean words to a friend, she loses it for a period. Obviously we know some of the negatives but there have been a couple of positives, namely that she has a 110 day streak learning a new language. Additionally, though I've restricted Chrome, she can use the google search bar to look things up. She knows I can see her search history, and a few times it has led to some really great conversations about sex and puberty related issues.
wanderingback that is my bigger fear with my daughter having a phone vs self esteem issues, friend drama, or dangerous people trying to contact her or whatever - just the constant distraction and not observing the world or socializing without it. I am more addicted to my phone than I want to be and knowing how hard it is for an adult to control, it is harder for a kid.
This is the issue with my 15 year old. It's not the content (her insta feed is puppies, soccer and Formula One...) but the addiction factor is INSANE. She has ADHD, which I think makes it worse but she literally cannot stop herself from picking up her phone and scrolling sometimes. It's crazy.
I'm a broken record but this is also what I'm seeing with my students. Their attention spans are minimal, everything has to be a game or entertaining to get their attention even for a minute, if they don't get the info they want in 30 seconds, they aren't getting it. The difference over the last 10 years is striking.
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
wanderingback that is my bigger fear with my daughter having a phone vs self esteem issues, friend drama, or dangerous people trying to contact her or whatever - just the constant distraction and not observing the world or socializing without it. I am more addicted to my phone than I want to be and knowing how hard it is for an adult to control, it is harder for a kid.
This is the issue with my 15 year old. It's not the content (her insta feed is puppies, soccer and Formula One...) but the addiction factor is INSANE. She has ADHD, which I think makes it worse but she literally cannot stop herself from picking up her phone and scrolling sometimes. It's crazy.
I'm a broken record but this is also what I'm seeing with my students. Their attention spans are minimal, everything has to be a game or entertaining to get their attention even for a minute, if they don't get the info they want in 30 seconds, they aren't getting it. The difference over the last 10 years is striking.
I don't doubt that this is true, but is it a unique this generation or a problem? Almost the exact same thing was said about the MTV generation. I think most of that generation has overcome their short attention span and become productive members of society. Maybe this time is different. Maybe it isn't. It is hard to know how much to allow so that kids can learn first hand, vs restrict so they don't do harm.
From Wiki: "MTV broadcast a documentary titled MTV Generation in 1991.[14] Reviewing it, the New York Times described the group as "young adults struggling to establish a cultural niche for themselves, something that will distinguish them from the hippies and baby boomers and yuppies of times past." The documentary depicts the MTV Generation as characterised by cynicism, uncertainty, and an ability to process information quickly, and focusing on diversions and retro interests.[15][16] One article denotes how difficult teaching the MTV generation came to be and that during that time "today’s students have short attention spans, lower literacy rates than previous generations, and bore easily. They don’t hesitate to show their apathy and their looks, style, and age can be intimidating".[17] The MTV Generation was not afraid to demonstrate their newfound attitudes and characteristics."
This is the issue with my 15 year old. It's not the content (her insta feed is puppies, soccer and Formula One...) but the addiction factor is INSANE. She has ADHD, which I think makes it worse but she literally cannot stop herself from picking up her phone and scrolling sometimes. It's crazy.
I'm a broken record but this is also what I'm seeing with my students. Their attention spans are minimal, everything has to be a game or entertaining to get their attention even for a minute, if they don't get the info they want in 30 seconds, they aren't getting it. The difference over the last 10 years is striking.
I don't doubt that this is true, but is it a unique this generation or a problem? Almost the exact same thing was said about the MTV generation. I think most of that generation has overcome their short attention span and become productive members of society. Maybe this time is different. Maybe it isn't. It is hard to know how much to allow so that kids can learn first hand, vs restrict so they don't do harm.
From Wiki: "MTV broadcast a documentary titled MTV Generation in 1991.[14] Reviewing it, the New York Times described the group as "young adults struggling to establish a cultural niche for themselves, something that will distinguish them from the hippies and baby boomers and yuppies of times past." The documentary depicts the MTV Generation as characterised by cynicism, uncertainty, and an ability to process information quickly, and focusing on diversions and retro interests.[15][16] One article denotes how difficult teaching the MTV generation came to be and that during that time "today’s students have short attention spans, lower literacy rates than previous generations, and bore easily. They don’t hesitate to show their apathy and their looks, style, and age can be intimidating".[17] The MTV Generation was not afraid to demonstrate their newfound attitudes and characteristics."
Maybe? I guess time with tell. All I know is that I have to do 3-4 activities in a 50 minute class now, and I used to be able to do 1-2 (and kids would be working for 20-30 minutes on something without having to change their state)
"Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It's hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It's round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you've got a hundred years here. There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind.”
My girls are only 9 and 6, so I'm out over my skis in this thread. That said, I've attended a local meeting for parents interested in learning more about Wait Until 8th, and at this point, that's our family's plan. My biggest takeaway from that meeting was that the initiative works (better?) by getting buy-in from enough families so that no student can truly be "the only one" without a phone. I don't see that mattering to my children if the others without phones aren't in their social circles, but I do see it having a real impact if they each have even one friend whose family holds out similarly.
We'll see. This stuff is tough!
I think this is the wall I'm hitting now. So if one of my pros to not getting her a phone was that she would get more practice with real in-person communication what happens now that the majority of the kids she encounters during unstructured times all have their faces in their phones? Her complaints definitely ramped up when her last phoneless friend got one for Christmas!
wanderingback that is my bigger fear with my daughter having a phone vs self esteem issues, friend drama, or dangerous people trying to contact her or whatever - just the constant distraction and not observing the world or socializing without it. I am more addicted to my phone than I want to be and knowing how hard it is for an adult to control, it is harder for a kid.
This is the issue with my 15 year old. It's not the content (her insta feed is puppies, soccer and Formula One...) but the addiction factor is INSANE. She has ADHD, which I think makes it worse but she literally cannot stop herself from picking up her phone and scrolling sometimes. It's crazy.
I'm a broken record but this is also what I'm seeing with my students. Their attention spans are minimal, everything has to be a game or entertaining to get their attention even for a minute, if they don't get the info they want in 30 seconds, they aren't getting it. The difference over the last 10 years is striking.
I do think there is a high likelihood that younger developing brains are more vulnerable to behavioral addiction the same way they are more vulnerable to substance addiction. I guess one of the things that I'm struggling with is that I think a very compelling smartphone may not be good for *any* child's brain but I don't think it is realistic in today's world to say you can't have one until you are 18. So I'm trying to figure out how I know when the pro/con balance has shifted.
My DD is a wonderful kid who is a couple of months away from 13 and is overall mature and responsible for her age. She has above a 4.0 GPA and good study habits, balances her schoolwork and sports and extracurriculars, saved up to buy her own Apple watch, and is in demand in our neighborhood as a mother's helper. She's a rule follower by nature and has spontaneously confessed misdeeds to me because she didn't like how it felt to have them on her conscience. She is definitely concerned about fitting in and what others think but I don't think to a degree that is outside the norm of what's age appropriate or has become pathological. So if on paper, any kid could be "ready" for a phone, it's her but maybe none of them truly are???
kitty , IDK, if you are thinking in terms of your kid not being ready then they probably aren't. In terms of society as a whole overall, maybe I wouldn't focus that much on that.
I can definitely tell that DS is ready (13) and DD is not (11). I don't know how to explain it very well. DD is still very much a child, and DS is very much an adolescent. DD struggles with emotional regulation and behavior. DD has had her iPad taken away a few times. DS is in a probationary period with his phone. So far he is doing fine with it, puts it away at night to charge, no inappropriate texts, behavior is good. Only lost his phone once for missing homework assignments and only for a day.
Addiction wise, I think gaming and You Tube are the biggest for both kids, so we keep an eye on that. DS has no issues putting his phone away to socialize, and we have phone free time in the evenings.
I feel like you will know when your kid is ready or if you don't know you will try it and see if it works or not. I feel like there was a big shift in maturity for DS. Now does he still lag behind peers in executive function definitely, but otherwise maturity wise he is more mature than other kids.
ETA- I am glad that we waited because DS's friend had some inappropriate text messages last year. I believe that he got in trouble with it, and has improved this year. They are friend adjacent, and don't text each other, so I wouldn't know.
My girls are only 9 and 6, so I'm out over my skis in this thread. That said, I've attended a local meeting for parents interested in learning more about Wait Until 8th, and at this point, that's our family's plan. My biggest takeaway from that meeting was that the initiative works (better?) by getting buy-in from enough families so that no student can truly be "the only one" without a phone. I don't see that mattering to my children if the others without phones aren't in their social circles, but I do see it having a real impact if they each have even one friend whose family holds out similarly.
We'll see. This stuff is tough!
I think this is the wall I'm hitting now. So if one of my pros to not getting her a phone was that she would get more practice with real in-person communication what happens now that the majority of the kids she encounters during unstructured times all have their faces in their phones? Her complaints definitely ramped up when her last phoneless friend got one for Christmas!
Yes. This is the issue we had.
At 13 my dd was definitely one of the last to have a phone. I definitely think waiting helped her develop some social skills that we as adults find important. But She found it so frustrating when friends would come over and they’d just go on their phone. So since she didn’t have a phone she felt left out. She would try hard to encourage them to get off their phone and actually talk, play, etc. but so many of these kids just do not know how to do that. So dd wasn’t learning how to be social the way kids are now!
I didn’t want her to turn into being on her phone all the time but the reality is that is what kids are doing, how they are social, how they communicate.
Once she got a phone I do notice that she still gets frustrated with friends on it when they’re together. But she can at least go on too and then they will do stuff together. Even while it may seem like they are not being social, they are playing games, watching videos and commenting, etc.
This is the issue with my 15 year old. It's not the content (her insta feed is puppies, soccer and Formula One...) but the addiction factor is INSANE. She has ADHD, which I think makes it worse but she literally cannot stop herself from picking up her phone and scrolling sometimes. It's crazy.
I'm a broken record but this is also what I'm seeing with my students. Their attention spans are minimal, everything has to be a game or entertaining to get their attention even for a minute, if they don't get the info they want in 30 seconds, they aren't getting it. The difference over the last 10 years is striking.
I don't doubt that this is true, but is it a unique this generation or a problem? Almost the exact same thing was said about the MTV generation. I think most of that generation has overcome their short attention span and become productive members of society. Maybe this time is different. Maybe it isn't. It is hard to know how much to allow so that kids can learn first hand, vs restrict so they don't do harm.
From Wiki: "MTV broadcast a documentary titled MTV Generation in 1991.[14] Reviewing it, the New York Times described the group as "young adults struggling to establish a cultural niche for themselves, something that will distinguish them from the hippies and baby boomers and yuppies of times past." The documentary depicts the MTV Generation as characterised by cynicism, uncertainty, and an ability to process information quickly, and focusing on diversions and retro interests.[15][16] One article denotes how difficult teaching the MTV generation came to be and that during that time "today’s students have short attention spans, lower literacy rates than previous generations, and bore easily. They don’t hesitate to show their apathy and their looks, style, and age can be intimidating".[17] The MTV Generation was not afraid to demonstrate their newfound attitudes and characteristics."
Yep, people complained about TV, then MTV, then cable in general ("57 channels and nothing on"), then The Internet, then they complained about The Internet some more ... they complained about teenagers talking on the phone all the time (now they'd be happy about that lol), they complained about the teen girl magazines causing self esteem issues. I'm sure if we go farther back we can find other things Ruining The Youths.
When I ask myself "why might it be different this time", the things I come up with are: 1. You can be On Your Phone almost all the time and On Your laptop almost any free time, anywhere, and use it to tune out the world. 2. TikTok/Twitter/Instagram feels like this unstructured fire hose of content -- there aren't "channels" or anything that's a long-form narrative story -- and negativity travels more. 3. There's (maybe?) way more "junk food" and outright unhealthy stuff on the internet, and it's harder to avoid.
So if (big if!) everybody has reasonable limits about how much you're on your phone it's fine, but you can end up in this trap where everyone gets too much phone/laptop time and it becomes THE focal point of socialization and "socialization".
wanderingback even with my fear of distraction we’ll be letting DD use an iPhone. That’s what nearly all of her friends and all of her friends’ parents use, and I’ve seen how difficult it is to have group texts for sports team parents and add non-iPhone phone numbers. We’ll just be trying to make her iPhone as distraction-free as possible, and just not allowing it to be used at meals, on family car rides, etc. DD will walk to and from middle school and the sports practices there, so no bus rides involved, and they can’t use phones during the school day.
A friend of mine has a rule for when her 13 year old's friends come around - they have to all leave phones in a basket by her front door. Kids can text their parents her number when they arrive so parents can find them if necessary.
She said the first time she did it, the girls thought she was crazy. But she left out some activities for them, and now they all know the rule, and are happy wiht it.
This is something H and I talk about regularly. Probably more than anything else.
DD is 12, will turn 13 in January (7th grade). We are waiting until AT LEAST then, but maybe summer between 7th and 8th.
But I totally see the swing in kids that got a phone this year. Some of the kids were her BFFs and now they never talk. DD thinks a lot is because of the phone use and isolating her, but who really knows. Thankfully a few of her good friends are still phone-less (and watch-less, though DD has an Apple Watch) and have a similar plan to us.
That being said, we will be pretty stickler about use at home and out with us. As it is now, we are a no-tech family at meals- both at home and out- and we schedule times for us to hang as a family. I know that will change slightly as she ages but I don't want to be a parent to a zombie. I *love* the idea of a basket for phones at our house. It feels to ask for that, but if your friend is going to come hang at our place and she's/you all are just going to be on your phone, what is the f(%*#ing point?!
I dunno. Even now we have her watch locked down during school, her iPad locked down for apps and adding friends/phone numbers, etc. I know we need to loosen up so she can learn while the stakes are still lower, but it's just scary.
wanderingback that is my bigger fear with my daughter having a phone vs self esteem issues, friend drama, or dangerous people trying to contact her or whatever - just the constant distraction and not observing the world or socializing without it. I am more addicted to my phone than I want to be and knowing how hard it is for an adult to control, it is harder for a kid.
This is the issue with my 15 year old. It's not the content (her insta feed is puppies, soccer and Formula One...) but the addiction factor is INSANE. She has ADHD, which I think makes it worse but she literally cannot stop herself from picking up her phone and scrolling sometimes. It's crazy.
I'm a broken record but this is also what I'm seeing with my students. Their attention spans are minimal, everything has to be a game or entertaining to get their attention even for a minute, if they don't get the info they want in 30 seconds, they aren't getting it. The difference over the last 10 years is striking.
This right here is the scariest part. The addiction is real. DD will ask me all the time to do IG with her- literally 10-15x a day! Sometimes minutes apart when I say no. And this is when we are on my phone and might scroll through for 5-10 minutes at a time. It's never enough for her.
This thread is just so timely to my daily life. As I said upthread, my girls who are almost 12 have Gabb phones. They can call and text and basically do nothing else. My stepson who is only 10 got an iphone 15 from his mom for his birthday. She didn't consult us and DH was not involved in the decision, he just came back with it. It's a constant source of whining in my house that he's younger and has a better phone. This morning I finally asked DD1 to outline all the things she would do with an iphone that she can't do now. The list included: Facetime, taking way better pictures, taking way better videos, listening to music. She even said that she doesn't care about having lots of apps, but the lack of Facetime and a crappy camera are the worst parts of the Gabb phone. I was impressed that her argument didn't include any mention of social media or games, since she already knows that's a non-starter. She made a good case for the difference without just whining about the unjustness of it all.
So yesterday I had a patient who wasn't wearing his lower retainer and his teeth were shifting. I was preparing to give my usual "tips for orthodontic compliance at home" advice to mom - limit the phone or even take it away to show the same level of responsibility with the retainer teeth brushing/braces rubber band wearing as they do with the phone.
Except this 8th grade boy didn't have a phone. I was impressed. Both of us doctors told her good job for holding strong.
BTW my advice doesn't always work. I guess parents don't want to deal with the fallout from limiting or taking away the phone.
wanderingback even with my fear of distraction we’ll be letting DD use an iPhone. That’s what nearly all of her friends and all of her friends’ parents use, and I’ve seen how difficult it is to have group texts for sports team parents and add non-iPhone phone numbers. We’ll just be trying to make her iPhone as distraction-free as possible, and just not allowing it to be used at meals, on family car rides, etc. DD will walk to and from middle school and the sports practices there, so no bus rides involved, and they can’t use phones during the school day.
Well if the Justice Department is successful with their antitrust lawsuit against Apple the ridiculous way Apple makes it somewhat difficult to communicate with non-iPhones may be a moot point. 🙂
I know this is besides the point, but is it a school requirement to have a phone with app capability? I assume your child goes to a school where everyone is upper middle class and above?
I’ve had a similar experience with my 7th grader. She has to request apps and have them approved. She showed the teacher her phone and told her she had to wait. I was very WTF and almost called DD to I could speak to the teacher lol. Teachers have just come to expect the kids have phones and access.
This is definitely true at my DD's middle school (UMC suburb), even often last year in 6th. On one hand, I get that they are meeting the kids where most of them are and trying to bring projects to life for the kids in a way that resonates with them and interests them. But on the other hand, I'm annoyed that it makes my DD feel so left out or unprepared.
Multiple classes last year had video projects that were intended to be filmed with a smartphone. The solo ones were fine because she borrowed my phone and worked on them at home. There were a couple that were partner/group projects and were supposed to be worked on mostly at school. My DD did her best to make sure she found a partner who did have a phone for these. She told me that for their French project, there were two boys working together that both didn't have phones so the teacher told them to use their school Chromebooks to record their video. They were filming in the courtyard during their class period and the audio on the Chromebook was so terrible with the wind sounds that the teacher kept telling them that their video wasn't good enough because he couldn't grade their pronunciation well enough.
My DD tried to join yearbook club this year and when she went she discovered that yearbook club is basically just taking pictures around the school with your phone and submitting them to the advisor. The advisor told them that they used to have some digital cameras but they don't work anymore and the principal is dragging his feet on finding money in the budget to purchase more. I asked my DD if she could still be in the club and do more work toward the end of the year when the focus might turn more toward laying the pages out, writing titles and captions, etc and she told me it seems like the teacher advisor does the bulk of the work on that herself. She had to miss the last few yearbook meetings due to the rehearsals for the musical she was in but I'm encouraging her to go to the next one and make sure the teacher knows she is interested in working on that part of things.
The school doesn't seem to have any loaner devices that kids can borrow for projects or clubs if they don't have their own (aside from the Chromebook which yields dramatically lower quality photo, video, and audio) and I think without meaning to is sending a strong message to these kids that you "should" have your own device.
I’ve had a similar experience with my 7th grader. She has to request apps and have them approved. She showed the teacher her phone and told her she had to wait. I was very WTF and almost called DD to I could speak to the teacher lol. Teachers have just come to expect the kids have phones and access.
This is definitely true at my DD's middle school (UMC suburb), even often last year in 6th. On one hand, I get that they are meeting the kids where most of them are and trying to bring projects to life for the kids in a way that resonates with them and interests them. But on the other hand, I'm annoyed that it makes my DD feel so left out or unprepared.
Multiple classes last year had video projects that were intended to be filmed with a smartphone. The solo ones were fine because she borrowed my phone and worked on them at home. There were a couple that were partner/group projects and were supposed to be worked on mostly at school. My DD did her best to make sure she found a partner who did have a phone for these. She told me that for their French project, there were two boys working together that both didn't have phones so the teacher told them to use their school Chromebooks to record their video. They were filming in the courtyard during their class period and the audio on the Chromebook was so terrible with the wind sounds that the teacher kept telling them that their video wasn't good enough because he couldn't grade their pronunciation well enough.
My DD tried to join yearbook club this year and when she went she discovered that yearbook club is basically just taking pictures around the school with your phone and submitting them to the advisor. The advisor told them that they used to have some digital cameras but they don't work anymore and the principal is dragging his feet on finding money in the budget to purchase more. I asked my DD if she could still be in the club and do more work toward the end of the year when the focus might turn more toward laying the pages out, writing titles and captions, etc and she told me it seems like the teacher advisor does the bulk of the work on that herself. She had to miss the last few yearbook meetings due to the rehearsals for the musical she was in but I'm encouraging her to go to the next one and make sure the teacher knows she is interested in working on that part of things.
The school doesn't seem to have any loaner devices that kids can borrow for projects or clubs if they don't have their own (aside from the Chromebook which yields dramatically lower quality photo, video, and audio) and I think without meaning to is sending a strong message to these kids that you "should" have your own device.
Liking out of commiseration. It makes it so hard to parent your kids the way you want vs making sure they aren’t left out of basic school stuff. Our compromise was an old iPhone that just did phone stuff (call, text, video). Nothing else. It worked until we were ready to give more access.
This is the issue with my 15 year old. It's not the content (her insta feed is puppies, soccer and Formula One...) but the addiction factor is INSANE. She has ADHD, which I think makes it worse but she literally cannot stop herself from picking up her phone and scrolling sometimes. It's crazy.
I'm a broken record but this is also what I'm seeing with my students. Their attention spans are minimal, everything has to be a game or entertaining to get their attention even for a minute, if they don't get the info they want in 30 seconds, they aren't getting it. The difference over the last 10 years is striking.
I don't doubt that this is true, but is it a unique this generation or a problem? Almost the exact same thing was said about the MTV generation. I think most of that generation has overcome their short attention span and become productive members of society. Maybe this time is different. Maybe it isn't. It is hard to know how much to allow so that kids can learn first hand, vs restrict so they don't do harm.
From Wiki: "MTV broadcast a documentary titled MTV Generation in 1991.[14] Reviewing it, the New York Times described the group as "young adults struggling to establish a cultural niche for themselves, something that will distinguish them from the hippies and baby boomers and yuppies of times past." The documentary depicts the MTV Generation as characterised by cynicism, uncertainty, and an ability to process information quickly, and focusing on diversions and retro interests.[15][16] One article denotes how difficult teaching the MTV generation came to be and that during that time "today’s students have short attention spans, lower literacy rates than previous generations, and bore easily. They don’t hesitate to show their apathy and their looks, style, and age can be intimidating".[17] The MTV Generation was not afraid to demonstrate their newfound attitudes and characteristics."
Honestly, I think it’s just a downward trajectory. I think Gen X and elder millennials have a shorter attention span than their parents at equivalent ages, and I think our kids are just continuing the downward trend. We didn’t recover and improve our attention spans…we just made everything in the world around us faster. Everything in life now moves at a pace and things come at us faster than I think our brains have been able to process it, and I think that contributes to anxiety/depression/“adult onset” ADHD.
Think about schooling. When our parents were in school, there were no games. You sat in a desk and learned. All day. Plus maybe recess. Our generation had a little more of a mix, with a lucky chance every now and then to play Oregon Trail. But we sat in our desks and took in information the vast majority of the day. Can you imagine that today??? The teaching style itself isn’t ineffective. Our parents learned plenty! But it’s not compatible with our current attention spans (which THEN makes it ineffective). Now teachers have to essentially turn everything into a song and dance in order to keep the kids’ attention so they can learn things.
We are still trying to wait til 8th but realistically could see us giving her one the summer between 7th-8th. She is in 6th now and most of her closest friends don't have phones yet. They also don't really make plans to get together outside school yet either. It seems like kids are so busy with activities that spending time together outside school isn't really a thing.
DS is in 8th, he turns 14 in a few weeks, and he doesn’t have a phone. It’s enough of a struggle as it is to get him off his iPad or laptop. He messages friends on his iPad and they have a shared one note page that they are always contributing to (like a virtual bulletin board.) it helps of course that his school doesn’t allow cell phones during the day. I guess we will have to get him a phone for HS but it will be as dumbed down as possible. Anyway, just chiming in that it can be done! And I don’t think he’s the only 8th grader w/o one at his school.
When DS got a phone, she stopped reading books. She used to love reading, now her freaking phone is always in her hand like an extra appendage.
That’s been the biggest thing here as well. I’m not sure if it’s the phone or school though. She was still reading for fun last year in 6th grade. This year she’s not but she’s also had to read Charles Dickens, HG Wells, and Frankenstein for ELA. Those books ruined reading for me awhile, too.