The Drowning South

[pixy0stix]

Part 1: wapo.st/44iCuEi

Part 2: wapo.st/3JYXTcp

Part 3: wapo.st/44Wv0XJ

Part 4: wapo.st/45keoJK

Gift links

Rapidly rising seas are combining with storms to generate epic floods, threatening lives, property and livelihoods.

[pixy0stix]

My question when reading about communities directly impacted is always, "Do they know that climate change caused this? Do they care?"

[pixy0stix]

I added Part 2 to the OP.

[InBetweenDays]

Based on my random Instagram algorithm, these people don't think climate change is causing this. They think it's a result of the government cloud seeding or using chemtrails and messing with the weather.

[basilosaurus]

Apr 29, 2024 15:24:33 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

Based on my random Instagram algorithm, these people don't think climate change is causing this. They think it's a result of the government cloud seeding or using chemtrails and messing with the weather.

I'm sure there are many iterations of god's plan and change is normal and cyclical but not manmade. Combining them gets you man cannot change what god created.

[msmerymac]

And yet people still want to move to Florida.

[ellipses84]

Apr 29, 2024 15:12:21 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

My question when reading about communities directly impacted is always, "Do they know that climate change caused this? Do they care?"

More than half of them do? You could probably split that by D-R voter percentages. Keep in mind all the blue cities in the southern states are the majority of the population.

It's a complicated issue, with a lot of denial based on high stakes. Even if people believe in climate change it's hard to contemplate losing their home, having their house become uninsurable and lose all value or having to move from somewhere they've always lived and have a good job / support system. There's also other factors to blame. You can think the storms are caused by climate change, but that the flooding is more frequent because of major development downstream or because the city didn't finish their mitigation project fast enough, and it will get better when that is done.

I think it's similar to other political issues, where people deny or oppose it until it happens to them. Like people in Houston who flooded 2-5 times in 3 years when they previously only flooded once a decade, and once a decade wasn't enough to convince people to leave the area. They are somewhat used to it, adapt and keep on. Gov't keeps raising the floodplain and in some areas new houses are half a story above the existing houses, they put car lifts in garage, electrical up high, raise old houses, etc. I think a lot of people won't consider moving to states anymore due to climate change.

[pixy0stix]

Apr 30, 2024 10:27:15 GMT -5 ellipses84 said:

Apr 29, 2024 15:12:21 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

My question when reading about communities directly impacted is always, "Do they know that climate change caused this? Do they care?"

More than half of them do? You could probably split that by D-R voter percentages. Keep in mind all the blue cities in the southern states are the majority of the population.

It's a complicated issue, with a lot of denial based on high stakes. Even if people believe in climate change it's hard to contemplate losing their home, having their house become uninsurable and lose all value or having to move from somewhere they've always lived and have a good job / support system. There's also other factors to blame. You can think the storms are caused by climate change, but that the flooding is more frequent because of major development downstream or because the city didn't finish their mitigation project fast enough, and it will get better when that is done.

I think it's similar to other political issues, where people deny or oppose it until it happens to them. Like people in Houston who flooded 2-5 times in 3 years when they previously only flooded once a decade, and once a decade wasn't enough to convince people to leave the area. They are somewhat used to it, adapt and keep on. Gov't keeps raising the floodplain and in some areas new houses are half a story above the existing houses, they put car lifts in garage, electrical up high, raise old houses, etc. I think a lot of people won't consider moving to states anymore due to climate change.

I think the bold is the meat of it. People can believe in climate change, but still not clue in that the ocean rising is the source of the flooding. That it doesn't matter if the storms aren't extreme, they're still going to flood and it's going to continue to get worse. 

Or the people who are buying the houses in the new development in one of the articles. Even the people who believe in climate change probably aren't expecting a rising ocean to impact them so far inland.

[laladypoet]

I mean, the South is full of good people. there's a lot of corruption that keeps these politicians in power.

[pixy0stix]

Apr 30, 2024 10:51:41 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

I mean, the South is full of good people. there's a lot of corruption that keeps these politicians in power.

It's not a question of good or bad, it's understanding why *waves arms* is happening. We have plenty of threads here where people are keep on keeping on their daily bad earth habits, but the South is underwater. There's a disconnect somewhere that doesn't follow party lines.

[wanderingback]

Apr 30, 2024 10:56:02 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Apr 30, 2024 10:51:41 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

I mean, the South is full of good people. there's a lot of corruption that keeps these politicians in power.

It's not a question of good or bad, it's understanding why *waves arms* is happening. We have plenty of threads here where people are keep on keeping on their daily bad earth habits, but the South is underwater. There's a disconnect somewhere that doesn't follow party lines.

I’m no psychologist or behavior change expert, but my understanding and anecdotal observations are most people prioritize instant gratification over most things unless being forced to change. It is really hard to recognize the rewards of doing or not doing something when you can make 1 click on Amazon and an item appears at your door in 1 day.

I of course think the government and corporations could do more but it absolutely doesn’t surprise me that even people who believe in climate change make meaningful and significant behavior changes because it generally doesn’t provide instant gratification.

[bugandbibs]

Apr 30, 2024 10:56:02 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Apr 30, 2024 10:51:41 GMT -5 laladypoet said:

I mean, the South is full of good people. there's a lot of corruption that keeps these politicians in power.

It's not a question of good or bad, it's understanding why *waves arms* is happening. We have plenty of threads here where people are keep on keeping on their daily bad earth habits, but the South is underwater. There's a disconnect somewhere that doesn't follow party lines.

I am constantly surprised by the people who don't understand why we put solar on our house because it will take x years before the "free" electricity pays for the cost of the panels.  When I explain we didn't put them in to get free power, but to help mitigate our energy consumption and as part of our overall goal of reducing our carbon footprint people have a hard time connecting the dots.  

And I live in the PNW where you will carry a recyclable with you all day before you even thought about putting it in the trash and is generally forward thinking on climate change.  I really don't understand the disconnect knowing that road we have kicked the can down is at its's end and we are falling off the cliff.

[basilosaurus]

May 1, 2024 17:49:42 GMT -5 bugandbibs said:

Apr 30, 2024 10:56:02 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

It's not a question of good or bad, it's understanding why *waves arms* is happening. We have plenty of threads here where people are keep on keeping on their daily bad earth habits, but the South is underwater. There's a disconnect somewhere that doesn't follow party lines.

I am constantly surprised by the people who don't understand why we put solar on our house because it will take x years before the "free" electricity pays for the cost of the panels.  When I explain we didn't put them in to get free power, but to help mitigate our energy consumption and as part of our overall goal of reducing our carbon footprint people have a hard time connecting the dots.  

And I live in the PNW where you will carry a recyclable with you all day before you even thought about putting it in the trash and is generally forward thinking on climate change.  I really don't understand the disconnect knowing that road we have kicked the can down is at its's end and we are falling off the cliff.

oh shall I share with your the thing I can't across my Facebook? I makes it round every now and again saying about how black panels are terrible. Meanwhile they have black asphalt tiles. And that's the least of the claims

[bee20]

Not an overall climate change solution, but I really like this approach:

www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-29/qld-flood-buyback-program-parks-green-space-brisbane-ipswich/103772204

Instead of continuing to bail out homeowners in flood areas they are buying the homes and turning the into waterfront parks, environmental recovery, and green spaces.

[chchchia]

If anyone is interested, please read about Tangier Island on the Chesapeake Bay in VA. I grew up going there every summer and it is sinking and most likely won't be there for too much longer. It speaks volumes about where we are in the climate change sphere and how this island is directly affected.

[wawa]

May 7, 2024 9:25:17 GMT -5 chchchia said:

If anyone is interested, please read about Tangier Island on the Chesapeake Bay in VA. I grew up going there every summer and it is sinking and most likely won't be there for too much longer. It speaks volumes about where we are in the climate change sphere and how this island is directly affected.

I have pictures from Tangier on my living room wall. My mom took them when we were out in a boat on a crazy still day and they feel unreal. Like an oil painting of an imaginary place. Soon to be a place that doesn't exist anymore.

It's such an interesting case study, because it was going to sink eventually anyway.  It's been sinking the whole time.  Kind of an absurd place to build a town in the first place.  The geography of the bay is a very changable place for a whole assortment of reasons I learned about in my geology class 20 years ago and don't remember enough about to explain (but if you want to know why the layers in the big cut on I-68 go the wrong way, I DO remember that), but sea level rise and increased erosion from climate change VASTLY accelerated it. 

And of course the residents are the kinds of folks who do not believe in climate change.  As it literally takes their entire island.

[chchchia]

May 7, 2024 10:50:00 GMT -5 wawa said:

May 7, 2024 9:25:17 GMT -5 chchchia said:

If anyone is interested, please read about Tangier Island on the Chesapeake Bay in VA. I grew up going there every summer and it is sinking and most likely won't be there for too much longer. It speaks volumes about where we are in the climate change sphere and how this island is directly affected.

I have pictures from Tangier on my living room wall. My mom took them when we were out in a boat on a crazy still day and they feel unreal. Like an oil painting of an imaginary place. Soon to be a place that doesn't exist anymore.

It's such an interesting case study, because it was going to sink eventually anyway.  It's been sinking the whole time.  Kind of an absurd place to build a town in the first place.  The geography of the bay is a very changable place for a whole assortment of reasons I learned about in my geology class 20 years ago and don't remember enough about to explain (but if you want to know why the layers in the big cut on I-68 go the wrong way, I DO remember that), but sea level rise and increased erosion from climate change VASTLY accelerated it. 

And of course the residents are the kinds of folks who do not believe in climate change.  As it literally takes their entire island.

It is a very interesting place filled with people who are in a lot of denial.  It has been sinking and will continue to sink, what I have noticed is the rate, it seems to be going a lot faster.  It is an odd place to build and there is another nearby island that I have not visited but thinking about it and that's Smith Island.  

[pixy0stix]

Part 3 has been added to OP

[pixy0stix]

In related news: FL passed a bill deleting climate change mentions from state law - www.cnn.com/2024/05/15/politics/desantis-bill-climate-change-florida/index.html

Because if you don't talk about it, nothing will happen, right?

To which a FL meteorologist attacked the move on air - www.cnn.com/2024/05/21/climate/video/florida-meteorologist-climate-change-bill-cp

[pixy0stix]

The third article is low-key snarky. They quote one official as saying the impact of septics on the environment was relatively not understood until recently, and then proceed with references from the '40s. LOL!

[pixy0stix]

4th article is out - Anatomy of a Flood

Is anyone else reading these? It's such great reporting of just how much 6 inches (this new article the place is seeing 7 inches) can fuck everything up.

[mrsukyankee]

Dang. That's not good, at all.

[basilosaurus]

Jun 11, 2024 10:03:15 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

4th article is out - Anatomy of a Flood

Is anyone else reading these? It's such great reporting of just how much 6 inches (this new article the place is seeing 7 inches) can fuck everything up.

having grown up in a sea level community where a one ft difference (or less) in assessment made an impact on insurance cost and evacuation policy, this is not need to me. But it's still probably news to those who once celebrated a recalibration that put them a few inches above before which saved them money and will now cost them.

[pixy0stix]

I finally read a public comment thread and... now I know why people aren't panicking. Most believe this is poor infrastructure planning. sigh...

[karinothing]

Jun 11, 2024 23:16:33 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I finally read a public comment thread and... now I know why people aren't panicking. Most believe this is poor infrastructure planning. sigh...

Well duh. Don't you know how easy it is to hold back the sea if you really try. 

[rubytue]

May 7, 2024 10:50:00 GMT -5 wawa said:

May 7, 2024 9:25:17 GMT -5 chchchia said:

If anyone is interested, please read about Tangier Island on the Chesapeake Bay in VA. I grew up going there every summer and it is sinking and most likely won't be there for too much longer. It speaks volumes about where we are in the climate change sphere and how this island is directly affected.

I have pictures from Tangier on my living room wall. My mom took them when we were out in a boat on a crazy still day and they feel unreal. Like an oil painting of an imaginary place. Soon to be a place that doesn't exist anymore.

It's such an interesting case study, because it was going to sink eventually anyway.  It's been sinking the whole time.  Kind of an absurd place to build a town in the first place.  The geography of the bay is a very changable place for a whole assortment of reasons I learned about in my geology class 20 years ago and don't remember enough about to explain (but if you want to know why the layers in the big cut on I-68 go the wrong way, I DO remember that), but sea level rise and increased erosion from climate change VASTLY accelerated it. 

And of course the residents are the kinds of folks who do not believe in climate change.  As it literally takes their entire island.

I read Michener’s Chesapeake few years ago. That book was written in the 70s, and one of the 
“characters” is the island the first guy builds his house one. And over the course of the book, the island erodes and is gone. And it really struck me how changeable it is. 

[susiebw]

Jun 12, 2024 6:55:21 GMT -5 karinothing said:

Jun 11, 2024 23:16:33 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I finally read a public comment thread and... now I know why people aren't panicking. Most believe this is poor infrastructure planning. sigh...

Well duh. Don't you know how easy it is to hold back the sea if you really try. 

Infrastructure planning and over-development is a part of it, though.  So much of our infrastructure was built a loooooong time ago, and is not designed for the climate we're currently living with, or for the level of development and impervious surfaces that we've created.  And I could go on all day about municipalities/counties not maintaining their stormwater systems and how much that contributes to the flooding issues too. 

Climate Change isn't just sea level rise, its also more frequent and more intense storms.  It's definitely not just a coastal problem.  The collective "we" have been aware of climate change for too long to use this as an excuse, though.  We've had decades and decades to prepare for this and to mitigate the impacts, but we have consistently chosen the cheaper and less controversial solutions; the bandaids.  Except now the bill is coming due on all of that postponing.

[pixy0stix]

To clarify, the comments I saw were all, "This is not new. This has been happening for 90 years. This was built wrong to begin with... blah blah blah." People aren't clueing in to the fact that the sea level rise IS new, that simple fixes that they say "should have been done by now" *can't* fix what is happening, and that a lot of the infrastructure that is failing won't be replaced. I say won't be replaced because if you go through all the articles, each one talks about several projects that need to be done to fix ONE town and they're all billions of dollars. There's not enough money or manpower to be able to fix this all.

Also, there's a bunch of the climate change baloney that this is all part of the earth's heat cool cycle. In general, people are having a hard time grasping that the ocean isn't going to go back down. That the flooding is permanent.

[basilosaurus]

Jun 12, 2024 12:35:51 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

To clarify, the comments I saw were all, "This is not new. This has been happening for 90 years. This was built wrong to begin with... blah blah blah." People aren't clueing in to the fact that the sea level rise IS new, that simple fixes that they say "should have been done by now" *can't* fix what is happening, and that a lot of the infrastructure that is failing won't be replaced. I say won't be replaced because if you go through all the articles, each one talks about several projects that need to be done to fix ONE town and they're all billions of dollars. There's not enough money or manpower to be able to fix this all.

Also, there's a bunch of the climate change baloney that this is all part of the earth's heat cool cycle. In general, people are having a hard time grasping that the ocean isn't going to go back down. That the flooding is permanent.

Case in point: www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/06/12/i-95-closed-flooding/74077828007/

At least one quote included mention of climate change which is rendered pretty much moot when sandwiched between mentions of infrastructure investment.