@ America's pronatalists

[basilosaurus]

Not to be confused with quiverful. My eyebrows disappeared into my hairline at many times. Admittedly this is one journalist writing about one day with one family, but I've heard these same sentiments from overlapping spheres. If Elon musk is your king you might have really warped views

amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/may/25/american-pronatalists-malcolm-and-simone-collins

[cap]

Good god. That’s…. something else.

[maudefindlay]

Hitting your kid is abusive Malcolm! What assholes. I want to stomp Simone's Where's Waldo Glasses.

[penguingrrl]

What the fuck? What a terrifying read. And they minimize that CPS has been called in them but are willing to abuse their children in public…

[chickadee77]

That was fascinating.

It's sad how much neither parent seems to actually like or care for the kids; they only see them as a vehicle for their mission. Which, really, isn't so different from what I understand about Quiverfull.

[basilosaurus]

May 27, 2024 9:45:45 GMT -5 chickadee77 said:

That was fascinating.

It's sad how much neither parent seems to actually like or care for the kids; they only see them as a vehicle for their mission. Which, really, isn't so different from what I understand about Quiverfull.

Ot's certainly a Venn diagram between the pronalaists, white nationalists, and quiverful.

I don't think these people are nearly as logical and data driven as they claim. Like, oh, data that shows smacking your toddler is actually damaging.

[mrsukyankee]

They acknowledge that there are areas where there are 'too many' children for the population - but instead of thinking that we should have immigration movement so that those children have support, they think they should have more white children.

And as a therapist who works with university students, some of who have been abused, I'm going to guess that these children will run FAR FAR AWAY from them in the future (or at least I hope so). These parents are taking their own abuse and issues and applying them to their multiple children. Yikes.

[sent]

I have only read the first few paragraphs because I have to go tend to my own not-white children. But their non profit sounds like it has the making of turning into a something akin to Scientology, but for tech bros who become tech dads.

[livinitup]

“You don’t need money to have big families … cash handout don’t work …

They bought this house and the one next door for $575,000; they allow their neighbours to live in the second house rent free, in exchange for childcare.

They will soon have to sell this Ford Explorer and buy a bus …”

Sure, tell us more about your data.

[noodleoo]

What did I just read? What assholes. I hope there aren’t too many of them… those poor kids.

[sonrisa]

this is just eugenics with a techie spin. And ‘effective altruism’ is its own brand of toxic bull shot.

[basilosaurus]

In news shocking exactly no one, they doubled down on slepping their kid, said it was racist to criticism them because minorities slap at higher rates. Also, they look exactly like what you'd expect.

I really hope they get no platform after this, but I fear it will just embolden them and their ilk. And I contributed. Ugh. Mea culpa. Imagine calling a 2 year old rebellious! That's some blanket training bullshit. I guess I'd rather know these people exist so I can rant against them the way I do quiverfull.

www.businessinsider.com/pronatalist-parents-dad-slapped-toddler-face-2024-5

[chickadee77]

Good luck "bopping" an 18yo. You might get "bopped" back. Unless they're so brainwashed by then they just take it.

Also, white people claiming racism against themselves as a defense of their own shitty behavior piss me off. Either own it or don't fucking do it.

[eddy]

I have been thinking about this article for DAYS. It is absolutely wild.

These people have zero desire to be parents nor do they like parenting.

The hitting, the cold approach to their kids etc. They like the attention and idea of what they are doing, but have zero desire to actually be parents. Sounds miserable. 

[lillaguma]

This article has also been blowing my mind since I read it. There is so much to be shocked at. Heat for the house is a luxury, but every kid has an ipad they wear around their neck? I agree that these two have zero interest in actually being parents. This is just racism and eugenics.

[ellipses84]

@ These people are unhinged. They base everything on science but completely ignore the field of child development?!! These are exactly the type of people who shouldn’t homeschool their kids. Some aspects of their ideology are more preferable than similar religious extremist ideology but their hypocrisy is disturbing. The similarities are eugenics, racism, neglect, abuse, and dangerous health impacts to the mother. They align themselves with conservatives that do nothing to support some of the values they claim to have.

While the world population growth rate is declining, the world population is still increasing by .8% + a year. Total world population has nearly doubled in our lifetime and it could take over 100 years to get back to 1980 levels. How about we focus on things that are wrong with the country and world that would make people want to have kids, like women’s rights, the environment, worker’s rights, universal healthcare, government programs that support families, elder care with a smaller working population, etc. so people can have the number of kids they want to have without having to neglect them to put food on the table and a heated roof over their head? I don’t even know if Elon Musk remembers all his kids names and birthdays. I hate that he is put on a pedestal as this tech genius who helps fringe movements like this when really he’s a deadbeat dad.

My mom spent her career working with abused and neglected children and she said a commonality was that the parents often saw their children as objects that belong to them, not as individuals with their own thoughts and feelings. I feel like these people see their children as a means to further their agenda and not actual people, which is very narcissistic.

[kath16]

i have.... a lot of thoughts about this article and i can't even articulate them. like, i know there are more important parts of the article but literal toddlers with ipads strapped to their necks is something i can't get past.

they live in my county, so that's something. i'm sure they'll "unschool" despite the excellent public schools available to them in that area. i'm not even sure there is a town called Valley Forge - they either live right at the edge of the park on the outskirts of a different town or just made it up to sound cool.

[mrsslocombe]

@ kath16, there isn't a "town" per se, but people who live close to the park say they live in VF. I have family there. Their zip code/mailing address is Phoenixville but since they live closer to the park vs actual Phoenixville it feels more apt.

I love how these people act like the choice is $$$$ private school or homeschooling, completely ignoring public school. Also they go through the dubious testing for IQ in their embryos but obviously have zero interest or effort into raising or teaching their children. Like just ignore all the data on the importance of parental involvement. They thing nature is just going to be enough to raise a team of super geniuses.

God a sociologist would have a field day with so many of their claims. "Economic incentives don't work" while acting brand new about any cultural reasons at play.

[Michelle]

Simone has a history of eating disorders that have affected her fertility; she can only get pregnant through IVF. (well voting Republican is going to rob you of that option). They’ve had the genomes of their frozen embryos tested and are selecting which ones to implant according to how well they score on intelligence and future health. They don’t just want a big family: they want an optimal one.

Preimplantation genetic screening is unregulated in the US. There are several companies that will test embryos for the risks of certain conditions, including the Sam Altman-backed Genomic Prediction, which the Collinses used for health scores. For what they call “the controversial stuff” they took Genomic Prediction’s data and gave it to another team of scientists who claim to be able to predict everything from how likely it is that one embryo will be happier than another one to its future predicted income. (The geneticist Adam Rutherford recently said there might be “an IQ point or two” of benefit in doing this, “the type of thing you can change by having a decent night’s sleep or a cup of coffee before doing an IQ test”.)

“Obviously, we looked at IQ,” says Malcolm. They discounted embryos with high risk factors for cancer and what Simone calls “mental health-related stuff where there’s just no good known treatments” including schizophrenia, Alzheimer’s, depression and anxiety. They didn’t select against autism, which they consider part of a person’s identity. They have 34 embryos left, and plan to give away the ones they don’t use; three have already gone to a lesbian couple in California.

“People do trait selection all the time when they prioritise certain kinds of spouses,” says Simone, airily. But this level of discrimination goes way beyond selecting partners, or even sperm and egg donors: they are genetically screening their descendants, and trying to ensure there will be enough of them to have a real impact on the trajectory of human evolution within several generations. How is this different from eugenics?

“It’s completely different,” says Malcolm, delighted to be asked. Eugenics is state-sponsored selective breeding to influence the dominance of certain genes, he argues. What he and Simone are doing is polygenics, using technology to give parents the choice over which traits they value most. “Different cultural groups will choose different things to optimise around. Eventually, that will lead to genuine human diversity.”

[Jalapeñomel]

Swap Elon Musk for Jesus, and it’s the same movement.

“When people say, ‘I can’t afford kids,’ what they mean is, ‘I cannot afford to have kids at the standards that I find to be culturally normative,” Malcolm continues.

🤬🤬🤬

[sent]

I saw a reel of a young woman of Indian origin and her tech startup. It was something about being able to do testing on embryos to determine if they might develop something like Alzheimer’s and other terrible disorders. I don’t remember the specifics of what she claimed they could test but she said she supported developing this technology because her mother was suffering from some devastating condition that develops later in life. That part about her mother suffering reminded me of the Theranos lady and the reason for her con was because she hated watching a relative have blood draws or something. I also thought how in the world could any ethics committee anywhere approve an idea like this woman’s embryo testing.

Now it all makes sense.

[basilosaurus]

They're hiding behind "right kids" are privileged and high IQ (which is not a PGD thing). Eugenics. Sure, they might accept POC with high paying job and elite degrees. So they can claim not racist. We all know that song and dance.

I have to say if I thought the number of kids was the number of kids I could adequately feed, sure, that's culturally normative. The ones I could provide fucking heating for. That's not exactly a modern day luxury.

Hopefully this attentive brings CPS back in with a quickness.

[sent]

I finished the article. Wow, our country really is full of wackos. The internet has made it easy to give everyone a platform. And this is so going to turn into a "religion but not a religion and also shrouded in secrecy." They've definitely got the financial structures in place. If she can run for government to get her views on a state level platform, then articles like this remind me that I can do the same to also try and make a difference. I'm just busy at the moment making sure my kids are taking full advantage of those public school educations.

I have questions about the neighbors who get free rent in exchange for childcare. They glossed over who these childcare people are but this odd arrangement for modern times made me think they're "the help." For some reason, I keep picturing they are not white. If they are white, they're very recent immigrants with not many financial options.

[Deleted]

May 28, 2024 21:13:49 GMT -5 sent said:

I finished the article. Wow, our country really is full of wackos. The internet has made it easy to give everyone a platform. And this is so going to turn into a "religion but not a religion and also shrouded in secrecy." They've definitely got the financial structures in place. If she can run for government to get her views on a state level platform, then articles like this remind me that I can do the same to also try and make a difference. I'm just busy at the moment making sure my kids are taking full advantage of those public school educations.

I have questions about the neighbors who get free rent in exchange for childcare. They glossed over who these childcare people are but this odd arrangement for modern times made me think they're "the help." For some reason, I keep picturing they are not white. If they are white, they're very recent immigrants with not many financial options.

Yeah, I wondered that as well. If the neighbors provide childcare, why are the kids running around with iPads around their necks? I wondered if the neighbors are like their parents our something, or some other older or retired person looking for more financial security.

[Jalapeñomel]

I'm back here. It's like they discovered candy flipping at a rave in the 90s and never recovered.

[basilosaurus]

sent thank you for pointing that out as I hadn't even considered that perspective. To the extent I paid attention it was to think a few hours a week but with other jobs because free rent still doesn't put food on the table.

If you're praising being homeschool shouldn't you just need some small respite care? I totally get that sentiment.

But these people are collecting arcade tokens for their warped ideology. They don't actually care about humans

[eddy]

May 27, 2024 15:34:07 GMT -5 livinitup said:

“You don’t need money to have big families … cash handout don’t work …

They bought this house and the one next door for $575,000; they allow their neighbours to live in the second house rent free, in exchange for childcare.

They will soon have to sell this Ford Explorer and buy a bus …”

Sure, tell us more about your data.

They also make a choice to not heat their house. /big eyeroll.

All while their kids are walking around with individual ipads dangling from their necks. 

[pixy0stix]

I'm sad that these people were clearly abused as children and then never sought help as adults to process their trauma. Now they're passing on the generational curse, but couching it in big words and empty ideas.

[sent]

May 29, 2024 3:43:30 GMT -5 @villainv said:

Yeah, I wondered that as well. If the neighbors provide childcare, why are the kids running around with iPads around their necks? I wondered if the neighbors are like their parents our something, or some other older or retired person looking for more financial security.

They talked about both sets of grandparents and some of the aunts/uncles in the article so if the neighbors are immediate family on that level, the author would've probably included that.