Deck quotes wwyd - update: under construction!

[lessel]

Our deck needs to be replaced. It's pretty dangerous (and feels even more precarious now that we've had some contractors show us some scary parts) and we have a new dog who we're now outside with all the time.

Deck is off the main level of the house over a walk-out basement (so looking from back yard, like one-story high). It's a 12x18 deck, which seems like it's pretty standard. It gets full sun from morning until evening. (Backyard faces north, so it's fully exposed all day.) Because of this, we want to add a shed roof (not a screened porch or four-season room bc holy $$$). But just a simple, angled roof that sheds water over the deck, provides shade, and protects our back door from weather. It will also extend the life of the deck significantly. Think something like this:



We've had 5 companies out to give us estimates (we have 4 quotes in-hand and the other is coming next week). 

Two of the companies for me are somewhat non-starters because while they're LLC businesses, they're telling me I don't need to pull permits and they're saying they can leave the ledger board and the posts. Posts are in decent shape (although not current code) but there is clearly some rot under the ledger board (the long piece of wood that bolts the deck to the house). So... do not trust. (We don't have an HOA, but are in a city where permits are required... and it is more of a PITA than county permits bc our city requires renderings before approval vs. just on-site inspections.) Of course, these are the guys with the lowest quotes. So three companies are contenders. Licensed contractors, handle permitting, etc. And it's all really more expensive than we thought, so we're going to have to tap into savings and maybe do a small personal loan. (We could pay it all from savings, but that is buffer for us given our kids' special ed private school tuition.) There's also a slim chance of some part gift from parents, but I'm not asking for it and not counting on it.

Of the companies who permit, deck-only quotes are:
Q1: 23k
Q2: 30k

So far deck + shed roof is 46k from Q1. (Q2 company didn't quote us for that because their team that does that work is backed up. The guy said to estimate another 18-25k, which seems ballpark right given the other quote.) Again, still waiting for company 3's quote next week.

Also, we priced out composites with Q2 and it would be about 36k for deck alone. (Pricing a type of composite that doesn't get quite as hot as Trex. The PVC decking that stays cool is unaffordable.) This would be an option that we wouldn't *need* a shed roof over in terms of maintenance but it'd still be crazy hot on our deck and our back doors get blasted with weather.

So... wwyd. Go for the whole thing or just do the deck? Barricade our back door and train the dog on puppy pads. 😭

Eta here’s a pic of the precarious deck.

[deadwing]

Would the shed roof extend from the 2nd story roof line? Or start under the 2nd story window?

I put in a patio in 2021 and chose some high end options that weren't *necessary* but improved my enjoyment of the space. I have 2 dogs and spend lots of time outside with them. Having space that is enjoyable is worth the extra cost if you can afford it. I think the shed roof is going to be worth the expense. I'm not sure about composite vs wood. I have a (small, covered, light colored) trex porch and I've never noticed it to be hot. But it always looks dingy, so if you go for composite I'd pick a darker color.

[InBetweenDays]

Could you do it in stages? Do the deck now, then save money and do the roof later? Or is there a serious cost savings for doing them both now? You could also consider doing a sailcloth shade. I'm not sure it would help as much in the rain but it should with the sun and I'd imagine would be significantly less expensive.

Regarding materials, have you looked into Ipe? I think it usually prices out comparably to composite. It doesn't get hot, and if you're ok with letting it gray it is virtually maintenance free. We've had this deck for 15 years and the only maintenance has been power washing it as needed times (I think we've done it 3 times) and screwing in the occasional screw that has popped up (the wood is too hard to use nails).

[lessel]

Jun 29, 2024 11:30:46 GMT -5 deadwing said:

Would the shed roof extend from the 2nd story roof line? Or start under the 2nd story window?

I put in a patio in 2021 and chose some high end options that weren't *necessary* but improved my enjoyment of the space. I have 2 dogs and spend lots of time outside with them. Having space that is enjoyable is worth the extra cost if you can afford it. I think the shed roof is going to be worth the expense. I'm not sure about composite vs wood. I have a (small, covered, light colored) trex porch and I've never noticed it to be hot. But it always looks dingy, so if you go for composite I'd pick a darker color.

If I'm remembering correctly the roof would be 10ft high on the wall and then slope to 8ft height (1ft beyond the deck rail). So yeah, under that window and not an extension of the high roof. They would also run electricity so there would be a fan in the center and floodlights on one corner. 

They're proposing the shed roof cover the entire footprint of the current deck. One guy was suggesting we bump out the deck a bit toward that bay window so the grill could be there uncovered. (We also have a built-in outdoor kitchen situation that was done by a previous owner... we haven't used it yet and we need to get gas and water lines inspected and probably repaired.)

The other thing I've asked for is the staircase to have a half turn vs. go straight down. Seem like that's an extra cost that I might cut. (I have a fear of stairs.)
 

[lessel]

Jun 29, 2024 11:41:23 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

Could you do it in stages? Do the deck now, then save money and do the roof later? Or is there a serious cost savings for doing them both now? You could also consider doing a sailcloth shade. I'm not sure it would help as much in the rain but it should with the sun and I'd imagine would be significantly less expensive.

Regarding materials, have you looked into Ipe? I think it usually prices out comparably to composite. It doesn't get hot, and if you're ok with letting it gray it is virtually maintenance free. We've had this deck for 15 years and the only maintenance has been power washing it as needed times (I think we've done it 3 times) and screwing in the occasional screw that has popped up (the wood is too hard to use nails).
View Attachment

Stages is possible, but there is savings doing it all at once. (Plus material/labor costs continue to rise...)

We did price out ipe with company #2, but it was on par with the PVC decking. Pretty expensive... it seems like to carefully source it is the issue and that bumps costs.

[cmeon]

We just built a similarly sized- though not quite as tall (we have 6 steps on our highest side- no basements!)- composite deck in CFL. Our city requires permitting/engineering approval/survey/multistage inspection, and we only entertained licensed and insured companies.

Our quotes for the same damned deck (fully trimmed composite with steps at either end) ranged from $39-255 sqft. It was mind-blowing. I was expecting a range of $35-maybe $80/sqft, when the first quotes were coming back >$200/sqft we were stunned.

But we kept getting quotes and in the end we went with a great company who was the easiest to work with amd paid ~$42/sqft. It's on a partially shaded western side of our house, and the unshaded half gets HOT during the afternoon hours on a sunny day- we bought a huge composite friendly rug and that made a massive difference. We are planning to add some shade (via a sail or structure) this fall, but the rug has made it usable all day (and safe for paws- we have two dogs).

I assume you are dealing with the additional cost of tear-down, and the roof likely adds quite a bit to your quote, but those numbers still feel really high. I would keep getting quotes (I know it's exhausting). GL!

[lessel]

Jun 29, 2024 12:37:52 GMT -5 cmeon said:

We just built a similarly sized- though not quite as tall (we have 6 steps on our highest side- no basements!)- composite deck in CFL. Our city requires permitting/engineering approval/survey/multistage inspection, and we only entertained licensed and insured companies.

Our quotes for the same damned deck (fully trimmed composite with steps at either end) ranged from $39-255 sqft. It was mind-blowing. I was expecting a range of $35-maybe $80/sqft, when the first quotes were coming back >$200/sqft we were stunned.

But we kept getting quotes and in the end we went with a great company who was the easiest to work with amd paid ~$42/sqft. It's on a partially shaded western side of our house, and the unshaded half gets HOT during the afternoon hours on a sunny day- we bought a huge composite friendly rug and that made a massive difference. We are planning to add some shade (via a sail or structure) this fall, but the rug has made it usable all day (and safe for paws- we have two dogs).

I assume you are dealing with the additional cost of tear-down, and the roof likely adds quite a bit to your quote, but those numbers still feel really high. I would keep getting quotes (I know it's exhausting). GL!

Our square footage calculations are different bc so far companies 1 and 2 have different approaches to how to deal with the existing posts in concrete slab.

Co 1 actually wants to extend the deck 2ft out beyond the slab and install new footers. So that's a 252sqft deck at about $90/sqft

Co 2 wants to cut into the slab, remove posts, and install new footers/patch concrete. Which makes that  212sqft at about $141/sqft

The demo and deck height are definitely adding to costs. We're in a MCOL area generally, but pretty darn close to some affluent neighborhoods so I think that's shifting things a bit too.

[SusanBAnthony]

Having been through some personal deck hell and having worked with composite decking at work, here are my thoughts.

I would do the project now if it's a potential structural issue, and I'd do it with the licensed contractor. I definitely wouldn't pee pad train the dog.

Your patio door should last regardless of full sun. If you have an issue with the door, you should deal with that and not mask it with a deck roof. You house is siding and your door is white so there isn't any reason you should have a door problem. I mention siding because it can be a little trickier with stucco or brick.

So then the roof is nice for two reasons- deck surface temp and shade/human comfort. You can achieve both with a shade sail thingy.

The composite decking is a separate question. If you go dark, to hide stains, it will get hot. Within composite and plastic decking options, there is VERY little temp difference. It's all marketing. The single factor is color. The lighter, the cooler.

Personally I'd do light colored co posite decking over a roof. But I think it's also reasonable to do wood with a roof. So ultimately it's your call if it's worth a loan to get either a roof or composite or both.

[lessel]

Jun 30, 2024 9:11:50 GMT -5 SusanBAnthony said:

Having been through some personal deck hell and having worked with composite decking at work, here are my thoughts.

I would do the project now if it's a potential structural issue, and I'd do it with the licensed contractor. I definitely wouldn't pee pad train the dog.

Your patio door should last regardless of full sun. If you have an issue with the door, you should deal with that and not mask it with a deck roof. You house is siding and your door is white so there isn't any reason you should have a door problem. I mention siding because it can be a little trickier with stucco or brick.

So then the roof is nice for two reasons- deck surface temp and shade/human comfort. You can achieve both with a shade sail thingy.

The composite decking is a separate question. If you go dark, to hide stains, it will get hot. Within composite and plastic decking options, there is VERY little temp difference. It's all marketing. The single factor is color. The lighter, the cooler.

Personally I'd do light colored co posite decking over a roof. But I think it's also reasonable to do wood with a roof. So ultimately it's your call if it's worth a loan to get either a roof or composite or both.

Yeah, I hear you on the door thing. The door that’s here is a crappy quality French door. When we replace it we’ll get something that’s a lot better quality. Most of the siding is kinda shitty too. At some point they replaced some of the siding with Hardie board but the rest of it is older and not in great shape.

I’ve also been reading more about the decking temps and it does seem like marketing nonsense. Like yay this one is 147 degrees in 88 degree sunny weather vs. 154? My poor dog’s pads won’t feel that difference.
Blahhhh house stuff is stupid expensive.

[orval]

We got deck quotes several years ago and wanted a roof too. Needless to say, we did not hire anyone -- deck is structurally sound but old.
Instead, for shade, we got a pergola from Costco and attached it to the deck. While these aren't as pretty as the structure built on to the house, they do the job and look decent on the deck. Anyway, could be a cheaper option than a built on roof.
The one we got is not prevent rain from getting through and can open all the way for air flow.

www.costco.com/paragon-modena-aluminum-pergola.product.100486524.html

We had friends that added a large solid roof structure and added fans/lights to it as well. Theirs is more like this one below.
www.costco.com/yardistry-12'-x-12'-gazebo-with-aluminum-roof.product.100378912.html

[deadwing]

Regarding light colored composite... this is what mine looks like. I'm guessing it's about 12 years old.  I don't own a pressure washer, but I assume that would make it look better.  Using a pressurized nozzle on my hose did nothing on the composite, even thought it cleaned up my siding nicely.

[archiethedragon]

Jul 1, 2024 6:36:30 GMT -5 deadwing said:

Regarding light colored composite... this is what mine looks like. I'm guessing it's about 12 years old.  I don't own a pressure washer, but I assume that would make it look better.  Using a pressurized nozzle on my hose did nothing on the composite, even thought it cleaned up my siding nicely.

 My favorite way of cleaning my composite deck is with a bucket of water with oxiclean, a stiff brush on a long handle and a garden hose.     Wet down the decking with the hose.  Dip the brush in the bucket and scrub.  Hose it off when done.  Makes the deck look brand new.  Takes me about an hour to an hour and  half for a 20'x20' deck. 

[simpsongal]

You know your budget, I'm in the 'get what you want' camp w/a project of this scale.

I think a roof would look nice architecturally - though an awning would be nice too . I'd also consider going a little wider towards the side yard and look into relocating the stairs to the gate side w/a turn. Think about furniture and grill placement (maybe the section that extends toward the side yard could be uncovered for the grill?

Seems like the monetary choice between composite or wood + roof will be similar....I'd lean towards the latter, but I'm not a huge fan of composite. I think you'll love the ceiling fan. Alternatively, you could probably add a fan below the deck and make that your space when it's full sun out and the upper deck space could be better for morning/evening use.

So I think you need to think about how you want to use the space and when re time of day/year. I know it's a lot but in the end make sure you're excited about the new functionality! )

[lessel]

Ahhhh I think we’re going forward with company #3. I have a couple more questions for them and the main guy is on vacation this week, but if all goes well with that, we’re going to do it. It’s going to be 30k for deck plus shed roof, plus a little bump out on the existing footprint for an uncovered deck space for grilling. I’m giving up the half-turn on the staircase for that extra bit of deck. (Both for cost and just because the footprint makes more sense that way.)

I trust this company too—they did great work for two neighbors in our old neighborhood. One deck and one had a like house addition plus four-season room… so big projects and quality work.

I’m going to work with the city on permits. Company does the renderings with an architect but they asked me to do the actual permitting stuff… which is fine bc I deal with bureaucracy every day so I have high tolerance for it.

[origami]

you may have already figured this out but just mentioning it b/c it's an issue at my house. our backyard patio gets super hot and the previous owners installed a large retractable awning. All well and good except at the hottest/sunniest part of the day, the sun is a bit lower and the awning doesn't block any of it. I'd want to ensure a permanent fixture actually worked when you needed it.

[sonrisa]

Does the room behind the deck door have adequate windows beyond that door?

Our current back patio has a roof like that over the main exit (sliding doors). it makes the living/dining room dark and gloomy despite the garden getting full sun most of the day, year round, There are two substantial windows on the opposite wall but because of the roof over hang and sun movement, they just don’t bring in enough light. In retrospect, we should have pulled it down when we first moved in.

[sparty04]

What about a retractable awning? My ILs have one and it's powered by a remote I believe. It has lights built into it. It's also nice that it's not always there because it's only hot a few months of the year where we live.

[lessel]

Jul 6, 2024 10:38:32 GMT -5 sonrisa said:

Does the room behind the deck door have adequate windows beyond that door?

Our current back patio has a roof like that over the main exit (sliding doors). it makes the living/dining room dark and gloomy despite the garden getting full sun most of the day, year round, There are two substantial windows on the opposite wall but because of the roof over hang and sun movement, they just don’t bring in enough light. In retrospect, we should have pulled it down when we first moved in.

It doesn't have great lighting. We have an overhead ceiling fan with a light and two table lamps. It also gets sort of ambient light when we have the kitchen lights on... it's sort of a great room-ish set up, but not exactly. Lighting is something I considered, but tbh part of the reason it doesn't have good lighting is because we have near-blackout curtains on those French doors. My H refused to put the TV over the fireplace in the room, which is the only set-up that would have reduced glare on the TV. (It's kind of a long, skinny living room, so the layout was tricky. Right now the TV is opposite those French door windows, so the curtains are closed a lot when the kids have the TV on. 

[lessel]

You guys, we’re under construction and it’s looking so good!! There’s a bunch left to do, but we’re thrilled with the progress so far. Of course, a couple of surprises like uncovering a waterline to the outdoor kitchen we don’t currently use but hope to in the future. Caused a delay in the city inspections, but no big deal. I was worried about wood rot where the old deck met the house and there was some, but super minimal compared to what I expected.

We’re not closing it in with screens or windows, but it’s being built so that we can do that in the future if we want to.

[deadwing]

That looks like it's going to be a fabulous spot to enjoy the outdoors!

[mrsukyankee]

That looks fabulous!

[simpsongal]

Love it! You’re going to love that space! How are you finishing the wood? What are thinking? If you’re looking for recs I was really happy with sikkens stain and Cabot.

[lessel]

Sept 15, 2024 18:44:50 GMT -5 simpsongal said:

Love it! You’re going to love that space! How are you finishing the wood? What are thinking? If you’re looking for recs I was really happy with sikkens stain and Cabot.

Thanks for the recs! We haven't decided yet. We know it has to sit probably a few months before we can stain... the wood, especially under the roof, will take a bit to dry out. 

[heygrey]

That deck is stunning! I would love to sit out there in the evening with a drink and book.