Talking older kids into learning skills when theydontwanna

[niq]

V is 10 and hasn't learned to swim yet. Every time I bring it up he immediately shouts "no". I'd at least like to get him to the point he can pass the swim test and be at the public swim areas unsupervised ... I was hoping for this summer but definitely by next summer.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to talk him into it?

[VillainV]

10 seems old enough for a conversation. Why doesn’t he want to learn? Is he scared of water? Hates going to the beach or pool? Sensory issues around being wet? Is he afraid that he won’t be able to learn how? Does he have anxiety around trying new things? I’d do my best to hear out what he has to say about the issue. Then I’d make a calm counter-argument about how much safer it is to know how to swim, and how much harder it is to learn things like this as an adult. That you worry about him being around water without knowing how to swim, and that you worry that as he gets older it may be socially isolating to be the only kid unable to join in water activities. Once you’ve both said your piece, and heard each other out, maybe there are some ways to compromise. Maybe he only wants to learn in a pool and not a lake. Maybe he is okay always wearing a life preserver. Maybe something as simple as a shorty wetsuit that keeps him warmer will help him feel comfortable. Maybe he has a fear of failure and could use counseling.

Ultimately, whether or not I would push the issue would really depend on why he is so resistant. I’d hesitate to force him, but I would definitely ensure his safety (which I’m positive you are already doing!) by limiting the time he spends around water, and making sure he always has a life preserver.

[tiki]

Has he ever tried lessons before? The peer pressure of a group lesson and an authority figure who's not a parent might get him unstuck from whatever is making him resist.

[cricketwife]

I don’t know how helpful this is but… I am not of the “it’s a life skill! They have to learn! “ camp. Neither my husband nor I will drown in a backyard pool, but we aren’t strong swimmers, so he comes by it honestly. And we swim very infrequently. DS2 is 8 in less than a month and still can’t swim. We’ve tried, pushed, thrown $$$$ (omg, so much $$$$) at lessons and he still can’t swim. For me, I’d like him to learn for social reasons (getting invited to swimming parties, etc) but if he doesn’t want to learn, I’m not pushing it. This is the same kid who also cannot/won’t ride a bike. I’ve stopped pushing with that as well because it truly is not a life skill for everyone and it does not represent the freedom it did when I was a kid. Basically, I really don’t think you can teach someone something they don’t want to learn. How integral is swimming to your lives of he’s 10 and can’t swim? If you really want him to learn, you’ve got to make it central to your lives, at least for a period of time. He has to see value in it.

[fortnightlily]

My son is the type who does a LOT better with private lessons than group ones, as well as learning from a non-parent instead one of us. Maybe you can get him to agree to try one private lesson, with no pressure to continue, and see if he takes to it?

[UMaineTeach]

I think if you can get him to the point where if he falls in he can get out, that’s good enough.

Unless, he really wants to swim and has some reason to be hesitant to learn.

[beerlover]

My son is almost 8 and he is still working on learning to swim (he can totally do it, but when I try to take him to the deep end to work with him, he gets scared and won't let go of me), and he has no interest in a bike (I assume he would have a similar fear of me letting go of him and letting him pedal without training wheels). It kind of pains me that other kids are so far ahead in this regard and he DGAF.

So anyway, I'm no help here lol. Just commiserating.

[ellipses84]

I’m not opposed to bribery as motivation 😂 I’d approach it as a maturity milestone though, so if there’s other things he wants to do as he gets older, then this is a step he needs to take to get there. It could be something like staying up later in the summer as incentive. My kids are not strong on their bikes, but my middle schooler doesn’t want to go to before / after care anymore and our house is a really far walk, so we told him if he practices more on his bike this summer and learns the road rules, we’ll consider it next school year.

My kids were late swimmers, too. They took lessons as toddlers but we took a hiatus and they were older than most beginners when they took them again. They took lessons every weekday for two consecutive weeks and that got them to the level they should be for their age.

Spending a lot of time at the pool and making them realize they couldn’t swim with their friends or cousins in the deep end or without a life jacket was motivating for them. Spending a lot of time at the pool in general helped build confidence, but having kids to play with helped so they don’t complain or want to leave.

While I have a desire for my kids to be well rounded people, I could care less about making them do many other things they don’t want to do. I look at swimming as a safety issue though. We live near the ocean and lots of houses have pools. I want them to have enough bike skills that if they decide to do it more later in life they know the basics and safety. I would love if they played an instrument and think one has natural talent but they have zero interest so I'd never insist on that like I would for swimming.

[konapoppy]

Do you have a water park near you? Are you doing any vacations with a pool or ocean you can actually swim in? Do you know if there is an 8th grade trip or something that always includes swimming? A camp he may attend that has swimming?

There may be some natural consequences that come from this, beyond of course the major safety issue (but kids are less likely to understand). He may just have to experience those. At the end of the day, he can take lessons as an adult, it just makes it scarier for you in the meantime.

[minniemouse]

Is he going into middle school? Will they be swimming in gym class? That was the motivation for my younger dd last year (we start middle school in 5th grade). She didn’t want to be the only one that didn’t know how.
We of course tried the it’s a life skill, safety issue etc argument but she didn’t care about that at all.

[nicolewi]

Someone made a good point about middle school or high school gym class. I would try to get to the heart of the issue. Why is it that he doesn’t want to learn? Swimming at least to some degree would not be negotiable for me.

you guys can talk about it and then create some kind of plan. I also would not be above bribery. Maybe there is a setting in which he would be more comfortable than others.

[niq]

Yesterday asked if he'd do lessons with a friend and he's said "maybe". Between that and some bribery with trips to water parks and the water park-ish suburban pools maybe we can make it work.

[livinitup]

Set some easy and realistic goals around feeling comfortable in the water and drop the expectation of “learning to swim”. He’s got it in his head that he can’t do it or won’t like it and is having a panic reaction. Which is never a good start for learning ANY new skill.

Good stroke development is the very last skill a kid learns. It comes after simple water adjustment skills. Can you get your face wet, hold your breathe for 10 seconds, float with your face down or up, push off the wall, jump into the pool ? These are all the things you can talk about now. Take the pressure off of performing the last step (and mean it, it’s not a lie or a trick) and he’ll be a happy learner for all the things along the way.

[186momx]

DD 13 can't swim. By that I mean she won't jump into the pool or go in the deep end. She is more than happy to stay in the shallow end of the pool, dive under with goggles, play games and chill. She also has no water fear if she is wearing a life jacket and kayaks/paddles boards with the best and has gone white water rafting multiple times. Would I love her to be able to pass the swim test and jump off the diving board and hang with friends in the deep end. YES! DD doesn't seem to care so I've stopped pushing it.

We had to do the same thing with bike riding. She can ride but looks like a drunk rider when she does. It is 100% safer for her to ride her scooter or walk. I agree that bike riding isn't the mode to freedom as it was when I was a kid.

[waverly]

niq, it seems like you have a good plan. DD can swim and pass easy camp swim tests (not the hard ones), but she isn't very good. I haven't pushed it since she is in other sports, but if she has nothing going on I woud have forced her to go. I think the older they get the harder it is to do the force them method.

[waverly]

Generally on the bike thing I recommend 2 things: Learn to Ride a Bike through REI. This worked for my NT daughter but not my ND son.

For more advanced needs, the I Can Bike camp. DS didn't learn until he was 10, and he spent the last 2-3 years cruising all over the neighborhood and riding his bike to school. I get that if there isn't friends to ride with it isn't as fun and is totally dependent, but for him it has been so worth it. And the I Can Bike camp is absolutely amazing. I highly recommend it for those that it goes near. I am not sure I would travel and stay in a hotel for it, but ours was only 30 minutes away. I took a week off work, and it was hands down the best use of my time probably ever.  Our site only does it every other year, so I had it planned for about 3-4 years because it was interrupted in 2020.  They have to be 8 to go, and it was on my radar when he was 7.  When he was 8 it was the off year, when he was 9 it was the shutdown.  

[niq]

Jul 3, 2024 13:33:50 GMT -5 waverly said:

niq , it seems like you have a good plan. DD can swim and pass easy camp swim tests (not the hard ones), but she isn't very good. I haven't pushed it since she is in other sports, but if she has nothing going on I woud have forced her to go. I think the older they get the harder it is to do the force them method.

It's a tough situation -- I grew up in the South in a neighborhood with a pool, so "go swim" was the easiest and cheapest form of entertainment. Even kids who didn't do summer swim team were at the pool a lot unsupervised. That's not the case here, I genuinely don't know what the younger teenagers do when their parents kick them out of the house because they've been playing video games for too long.

re: biking Pedalheads absolutely did the trick for V at age 5. O "learned" to bike at without training wheels at Pedalheads last summer at age 5, but only kinda sorta. Pedalheads put them back on at 7 and we'll maybe try again at Thanksgiving.

[waverly]

niq, Yeah the kicking them out of the house when they've been playing video games too long is a tough one here. The kids used to play with their neighborhood friends but that has kind of stopped during the middle school years as kids change interests and friend groups.

I send my 13 year old to a lot of camps for that reason. His school friends are traveling and busy with cousins/ family events, so we do the same plus some camps. DS will age out of them next year and probably only be eligible for 2 camps so maybe I will sign him up for CIT just to get the first aid and CPR training. Maybe a job for the 14 year old? I'm trying to get him to bike with his friend to the pool, but DS hasn't been into the pool lately. Sigh.

[macmars45]

beerlover just this summer DS(8) is getting confidant on his scooter. By confidant I mean he'll go around our small square one road in & out neighborhood with me a few times. I'm hoping eventually he'll be up for taking his scooter to the park or his school playground. We'll see.

He is vehemently against riding a bike. And forget swimming.

[VillainV]

Re: bike riding, anecdotally, the majority of C’s friends (ages 8-11 or so) do not know how to ride bikes. We live in a very bike-friendly neighborhood, but the vast majority of kids we see are on scooters. There doesn’t seem to be any urgency or pressure for kids to learn to ride a bike when they can ride a scooter instead. And honestly I see their point.

[sju]

It’s great that he may be open to go with a friend. I don’t think they need to be expert swimmers but they should at least be able to get themselves out of trouble. You never know. DD was afraid of swimming when she was little. One summer during elementary school, she was given a red bracelet at camp and had to stay in the shallow end. She felt very embarrassed because all her friends got green ones. I felt like should have pushed harder when she was little. 

[heygrey]

I would definitely take the approach of having a conversation about why he doesn't want to learn to swim and try to work within his fears/concerns. However, swimming is a non-negotiable safety issue for me and not learning would not be an option. I would explain my position as a parent and figure out how we can work together to accomplish this. He doesn't need to be a competitive swimmer, just a safe swimmer. If I remember correctly, you are in the Seattle area, so lots of opportunities for water/boating in his future even if it's not something you do regularly now.

Things like riding a bike, meh. There isn't a safety issue if he doesn't learn. Maybe social pressure will persuade a kid to learn at some point, but lots of people go their whole lives without riding a bike and it isn't an issue.

[magma]

Jul 4, 2024 9:59:03 GMT -5 heygrey said:

I would definitely take the approach of having a conversation about why he doesn't want to learn to swim and try to work within his fears/concerns. However, swimming is a non-negotiable safety issue for me and not learning would not be an option. I would explain my position as a parent and figure out how we can work together to accomplish this. He doesn't need to be a competitive swimmer, just a safe swimmer. If I remember correctly, you are in the Seattle area, so lots of opportunities for water/boating in his future even if it's not something you do regularly now.

Things like riding a bike, meh. There isn't a safety issue if he doesn't learn. Maybe social pressure will persuade a kid to learn at some point, but lots of people go their whole lives without riding a bike and it isn't an issue.

[magma]

Jul 4, 2024 13:02:52 GMT -5 magma said:

Jul 4, 2024 9:59:03 GMT -5 heygrey said:

I would definitely take the approach of having a conversation about why he doesn't want to learn to swim and try to work within his fears/concerns. However, swimming is a non-negotiable safety issue for me and not learning would not be an option. I would explain my position as a parent and figure out how we can work together to accomplish this. He doesn't need to be a competitive swimmer, just a safe swimmer. If I remember correctly, you are in the Seattle area, so lots of opportunities for water/boating in his future even if it's not something you do regularly now.

Things like riding a bike, meh. There isn't a safety issue if he doesn't learn. Maybe social pressure will persuade a kid to learn at some point, but lots of people go their whole lives without riding a bike and it isn't an issue.

I agree with you it’s a safety issue. I agree with you that I’d make my kids learn. That said…do you have tweens or teens? 🤣 how do you make them do anything? Asking with curiosity, not scorn, because I’d love to know! Similar situation in that both my kids have speech issues. One with a strong stutter. Both cannot pronounce their R’s. They were in speech therapy for many years. I made them go, both proclaimed they didn’t care about their speech. Finally when they both hit tweendom (10-12ish) speech therapists told me that if they don’t want to improve their speech, it will never happen. I can drive them there, pay for the therapy, but if they don’t want it it won’t happen.

I agree with trying to learn why the OP’s child doesn’t want to swim. But I’m also frustrated in my own life as a parent of 11 and 14 year olds that if they don’t want to do something….how exactly do you “make” them?

[waverly]

Jul 4, 2024 13:06:49 GMT -5 magma said:

Jul 4, 2024 13:02:52 GMT -5 magma said:

I agree with you it’s a safety issue. I agree with you that I’d make my kids learn. That said…do you have tweens or teens? 🤣 how do you make them do anything? Asking with curiosity, not scorn, because I’d love to know! Similar situation in that both my kids have speech issues. One with a strong stutter. Both cannot pronounce their R’s. They were in speech therapy for many years. I made them go, both proclaimed they didn’t care about their speech. Finally when they both hit tweendom (10-12ish) speech therapists told me that if they don’t want to improve their speech, it will never happen. I can drive them there, pay for the therapy, but if they don’t want it it won’t happen.

I agree with trying to learn why the OP’s child doesn’t want to swim. But I’m also frustrated in my own life as a parent of 11 and 14 year olds that if they don’t want to do something….how exactly do you “make” them?

This definitely gets harder the older they are and the type of personality. DS is in tutoring. He doesn’t want to be in tutoring but he participates and doesn’t actively fight it. Therefore it has value as opposed to a student that refuses to participate. I imagine what the speech teacher is talking about are those kids that are not participating, trying, or doing the assigned work.

“Making them” in my house is part discussion, persuasion and agreement. A dash of bribery. It is more hey you made the agreement that you would do band for a school year so you need to stick it out even though you want to quit after 4 months. I had to reference the agreement many times due to the cost of band and refurbishing the instrument. She counted down the days and months until she could quit, but she made it through because there was an end in sight but I won’t make her continue or start up something she is totally against. She was interested in band originally, and there are rules around joining.

Swimming lessons are probably most effective in the 5-8 year old range. It’s much harder to get a 10+ in the pool for lessons IMO.

[heygrey]

Jul 4, 2024 13:06:49 GMT -5 magma said:

I agree with you it’s a safety issue. I agree with you that I’d make my kids learn. That said…do you have tweens or teens? 🤣 how do you make them do anything? Asking with curiosity, not scorn, because I’d love to know! Similar situation in that both my kids have speech issues. One with a strong stutter. Both cannot pronounce their R’s. They were in speech therapy for many years. I made them go, both proclaimed they didn’t care about their speech. Finally when they both hit tweendom (10-12ish) speech therapists told me that if they don’t want to improve their speech, it will never happen. I can drive them there, pay for the therapy, but if they don’t want it it won’t happen.

I agree with trying to learn why the OP’s child doesn’t want to swim. But I’m also frustrated in my own life as a parent of 11 and 14 year olds that if they don’t want to do something….how exactly do you “make” them?

I have a strong-willed 10 year old and work in education so I'm not coming at this with zero experience. It's been a hot second since I actively worked with teenagers, but a lot of the principles I use with my younger students still apply. I will have a respectful conversation, figure out a path to get to the end that we're both happy with, and hold them accountable to complete it. I also choose my battles very wisely. I know that if I say something is non-negotiable I have to back it up even if that means applying consequences that inconvenience me.

Like I said previously, safe swimming skills are my hill to die on for my own child. He was pretty slow on the uptake despite me spending hundreds (probably thousands) of dollars on lessons, both public and private. What finally worked was taking him swimming every day for weeks so he could flail about and figure it out on his own. I didn't love going everyday, but I had to invest the time if I was going to demand the skill. If he were resistant to learning, I would not let him go to fun things that involved water unless H or I were present. That would be an absolutely pain for H and I to coordinate and it would mean a grumpy kid, but the kid has a choice in all of this too. Learn to swim! 

Speech is tough because from an adult perspective we can see how more years of therapy and practice can benefit them greatly in the future, but I know from my years in the school system that lots of kids really start resisting around 10/11. That wouldn't be a hill to die on for me. I'd still help them practice in natural conversations at home, but I wouldn't spend money or force them to therapy if they were adamantly done. Your kids may choose to try speech therapy again in the future. One of H's close friends had a severe stutter into his 20's, but he ended up in a career where he does a lot of public speaking so he chose to tackle speech therapy again. When he was invested in improving his speech, he put in the work.  

TL;DR - I choose my battles carefully and make sure I am 100% up to the task of enforcing it. There is actually very little that falls into this category for me. 
 

[jeaniebueller]

For my son, it was peer pressure with swimming that did it, they had swim class at school and he was one of two kids in 4th grade who couldnt swim. He also didn't want to learn how to ride a bike, but i took video games away and suddenly he was riding wtihin two hours. If I were you, i would enroll him in private swim lessons. It could be that at age 10, he knows he is a bit older than a lot of the kids in swim class and in group classes, he feels silly. At this point, he's probably a little embarrassed, so ease that issue with a private lesson in a laid back environment. Also, at his age, he will probably catch on quickly and you may only need 2-4 lessons to get him comfortable enough to at least swim in the deep end.

[Susie]

We ran into some refusal issues with my DD and swimming when we tried to pick back up with lessons after covid closures.  She was younger then, probably about 6 (she's 8 now).  She didn't refuse the idea, but when we got to the pool she'd refuse to attempt the skill with me.  I think with her it was fear-based.

For us, enrolling her at a Goldfish swim school franchise got her over the hump.  They are super used to dealing with reticent learners, and super focused on making learning to swim fun.  Parents watch through a glass wall, but aren't out on the pool deck and able to engage.  Lessons are groups of 4, max, so there is a mix of personal attention and peer pressure.  It was just a really good environment.

Two years later, she is now on a swim team.  I'm not sure if she has a fully legal fly or breast yet, but definitely free and back, and what's more, she likes it and she chose to do it.

Water safety is non-negotiable in our family.  My dad has two homes that are both waterfront, one of which has a deep water boat slip on a fast moving tidal channel.  We can't never visit, and it's too stressful to sustain for yearsssssss the level of vigilance that non-swimmers require there.  I was happy to incentivize swimming milestones with rewards and privileges, happy to work and drive further for lesson venues/programs that work for my kids, and happy to allow "retiring" from regular/frequent swimming once a certain pre-specified level of proficiency was met, but not learning to swim wasn't on the table.  

[melmaria]

Jul 8, 2024 13:07:17 GMT -5 Susie said:

We ran into some refusal issues with my DD and swimming when we tried to pick back up with lessons after covid closures.  She was younger then, probably about 6 (she's 8 now).  She didn't refuse the idea, but when we got to the pool she'd refuse to attempt the skill with me.  I think with her it was fear-based.

For us, enrolling her at a Goldfish swim school franchise got her over the hump.  They are super used to dealing with reticent learners, and super focused on making learning to swim fun.  Parents watch through a glass wall, but aren't out on the pool deck and able to engage.  Lessons are groups of 4, max, so there is a mix of personal attention and peer pressure.  It was just a really good environment.

Two years later, she is now on a swim team.  I'm not sure if she has a fully legal fly or breast yet, but definitely free and back, and what's more, she likes it and she chose to do it.

Water safety is non-negotiable in our family.  My dad has two homes that are both waterfront, one of which has a deep water boat slip on a fast moving tidal channel.  We can't never visit, and it's too stressful to sustain for yearsssssss the level of vigilance that non-swimmers require there.  I was happy to incentivize swimming milestones with rewards and privileges, happy to work and drive further for lesson venues/programs that work for my kids, and happy to allow "retiring" from regular/frequent swimming once a certain pre-specified level of proficiency was met, but not learning to swim wasn't on the table.  

I second the recommendation for a Goldfish-style swim school. We go to a similar chain that is in the Midwest. My 5 year old DD attends hers year-round and is almost through the final level, at which she can graduate to “junior swim team”.

Swimming is the only activity we “make” her do (my H’s family also have a waterfront vacation property that we spend a ton of time at during the summer, also with a dock on a fast moving current - so we have the same concerns as Susie). It’s non-negotiable for us, just like going to school is, but I acknowledge I have specific circumstances to be so uptight about water safety.

At any rate, my DD hasn’t resisted going to swim lessons since she was very little - we’ve been going year-round for 3 years now - but I’ve seen her in classes with other kids who have struggled/resisted, and the teachers + peer pressure element seems to work wonders for those kids.

ETA: I will add that my DD’s swim school breaks down groups of lessons not only by level, but by age. So, she’s in the top level of 5-7 year olds, but there’s another grouping of 8-11 year olds with the same levels, etc. So you don’t necessarily have to worry that an older kid will be stuck with much younger kids, if you can find the right swim school/program (I can imagine a 10 year old may not want to be in a class with a bunch of 5 year olds!)

[Susie]

Jul 8, 2024 15:24:25 GMT -5 melmaria said:

ETA: I will add that my DD’s swim school breaks down groups of lessons not only by level, but by age. So, she’s in the top level of 5-7 year olds, but there’s another grouping of 8-11 year olds with the same levels, etc. So you don’t necessarily have to worry that an older kid will be stuck with much younger kids, if you can find the right swim school/program (I can imagine a 10 year old may not want to be in a class with a bunch of 5 year olds!)

Yes, Goldfish does this too and I think it's really helpful and worth specifically looking for in a program if you have a kiddo who is maybe not in precisely the target zone to learn swimming skills.  

My DS is still at Goldfish and he just moved up from Junior 1 to Glider 1 based on turning 5, rather than skill progression.  He skipped Junior 2 and 3 because he didn't progress through those skills while in the "Junior" age.  Now he's working on the same skills as before but with older kids who progress a little faster, and the instructor is pushing him a little more than in Juniors, which is good for him.  On the flip side of the coin, older kids are placed into lessons that are age-appropriate in terms of peers and in terms of the complexity and language used in explanations/instructions, rather than putting them with same-ability much younger kids, which would probably be kind of demoralizing/embarrassing.  The model seems to work well for a lot of families.