Old farts keep on farting

[pixy0stix]

wapo.st/3S3j3KR


97-year-old judge loses lawsuit challenging suspension from the bench

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I need everyone to retire at a reasonable age. Is that ageist? I guess that's the larger question.

[StrawberryBlondie]

Minnesota has a state law that requires judges retire at age 70 and I think that's a little young, but no one will convince me someone should be allowed to remain on the bench well into their 90s.

[Susie]

As a patent practitioner, I've been following her case as it has developed.  She is a legend.  But it's been really clear for a really long time that she is way past when she should've retired.  Other articles have gone into detail about her particular behaviors, blaming people for stealing documents when in actuality she was just unable to navigate software updates to find them, etc. etc.  That along with the paranoia that people were "out to get her" were some real red flags for cognitive decline.  She's dismantling her legacy crazy behavior by crazy behavior, although that's her issue, not ours.  Our issue is the hubris of these boomers, thinking they are the only people who can do the job correctly.  Absolutely mind blowing to me.  I appreciate the need for an independent judiciary, but there has to be a mechanism for removing judges who are not competent, and enforcing retirement.  NYS has a mandatory retirement age for judges.  FOR A REASON.

[lahoagie]

My spouse shared an office with a guy who got tenure with no limitations. I think he was about 95 when COVID hit and still working. My spouse said that almost every day he would come in and call his insurance because of a car incident, then he would download some virus onto his computer and be on the phone with IT for several hours, go to lunch at their fancy faculty restaurant, bug people with stories and then go home. He drove my spouse nuts. Every couple months his children and grand children would visit and fawn over how “amazing” he was because he was still working which is probably why he never retired. I really don’t get it - I count down the days until I can retire and want to do it as early as possible.

[pinkyp]

Jul 10, 2024 20:01:13 GMT -5 lahoagie said:

My spouse shared an office with a guy who got tenure with no limitations. I think he was about 95 when COVID hit and still working. My spouse said that almost every day he would come in and call his insurance because of a car incident, then he would download some virus onto his computer and be on the phone with IT for several hours, go to lunch at their fancy faculty restaurant, bug people with stories and then go home. He drove my spouse nuts. Every couple months his children and grand children would visit and fawn over how “amazing” he was because he was still working which is probably why he never retired. I really don’t get it - I count down the days until I can retire and want to do it as early as possible.

Omg the rundown of his day made me legit laugh out loud. Especially the computer virus part 😆 Did he get any actual work done?

[sent]

Jul 10, 2024 19:49:03 GMT -5 Susie said:

Our issue is the hubris of these boomers, thinking they are the only people who can do the job correctly.  

At age 97, she's not even a boomer. She's one of those bootstrappy earlier generations who went to college when it was 50 cents a semester.

[AAM2012]

Jul 10, 2024 20:36:41 GMT -5 sent said:

Jul 10, 2024 19:49:03 GMT -5 Susie said:

Our issue is the hubris of these boomers, thinking they are the only people who can do the job correctly.  

At age 97, she's not even a boomer. She's one of those bootstrappy earlier generations who went to college when it was 50 cents a semester.

As someone who has experienced first hand an aging parent who refused to retire when they “should have”. This isn’t about what generation they’re from and it’s sad that is even being mentioned.

I can’t speak to the person the article is about, but people age in different ways (dementia, Alzheimer’s, etc.) and they may not be in the right mind to realize that they need to make the decision to leave their job… the one thing they think they still have control over, something they love and have done for decades, etc.

You or I could become one of those people eventually, whether we realize it or not.

[minzy]

I knew who this was going to be about before I clicked. There’s been a law conference within the past year where one of her former clerks essentially went to bat for her on a panel. Some of my friends went and came back with their eyebrows sky high.

It seems in March she reached 40 years(!) on the Federal Circuit. They apparently made a book for her to enjoy for “years to come.” ipwatchdog.com/2024/03/10/celebrating-40-years-judge-pauline-newman/id=174023/

I recently briefed something with an obscure issue that had been discussed in another decision almost 30 years ago… and I was randomly before the very same guy. “Lucky” for me he agreed with my application of the issue but my mind was kind of blown that he is still on the bench! There are some exceptions (I can think of a few Trump appointees) but you generally don’t get to be a judge, let alone one for a federal court, at the beginning of your legal career.

[glw]

I wish more people would step aside into a consultant/mentor role rather than insisting that they are the only one who can do a job. They have valuable knowledge and can help train the next generation, without shutting them out of jobs (and having a daily "work" schedule like lahoagie described lol).

We have a faculty leadership position that's been held in a death grip by someone who should have stepped aside years ago. He "doesn't do email", never submits mandatory reports, and even the students are complaining about how stale the program has become. He could so easily give up the position and just teach a few classes and help out the new person. So frustrating.

[aurora]

Jul 11, 2024 8:12:15 GMT -5 glw said:

I wish more people would step aside into a consultant/mentor role rather than insisting that they are the only one who can do a job. They have valuable knowledge and can help train the next generation, without shutting them out of jobs (and having a daily "work" schedule like lahoagie described lol)...

A long time ago I worked with someone who did essentially that in my org: he came in part time and helped people using his wealth of knowledge. I thought it worked out beautifully and missed him when he finally retired completely. Of course I do realize that not everyone has the temperament for that.

[aurora]

I should have said, though, to the original post: I definitely think 97 is too old to hold a full time judge position.

[sent]

AAM2012 , I was being sarcastic and facetious. Is "/s" part of message board culture yet on traditional message boards like these? I need it to be. 

[wildrice]

Jul 10, 2024 23:08:04 GMT -5 AAM2012 said:

Jul 10, 2024 20:36:41 GMT -5 sent said:

At age 97, she's not even a boomer. She's one of those bootstrappy earlier generations who went to college when it was 50 cents a semester.

As someone who has experienced first hand an aging parent who refused to retire when they “should have”. This isn’t about what generation they’re from and it’s sad that is even being mentioned.

I can’t speak to the person the article is about, but people age in different ways (dementia, Alzheimer’s, etc.) and they may not be in the right mind to realize that they need to make the decision to leave their job… the one thing they think they still have control over, something they love and have done for decades, etc.

You or I could become one of those people eventually, whether we realize it or not.

I definitely will not become one of those people, lol. I can't freaking wait to retire and someone should probably commit me if I ever get to a point where I think I love working.

(I'm mostly saying that TIC, I get your point and agree with it. We all think we will never act like our parents when we are older, but we probably will)

[lahoagie]

Jul 10, 2024 20:16:50 GMT -5 pinkyp said:

Jul 10, 2024 20:01:13 GMT -5 lahoagie said:

My spouse shared an office with a guy who got tenure with no limitations. I think he was about 95 when COVID hit and still working. My spouse said that almost every day he would come in and call his insurance because of a car incident, then he would download some virus onto his computer and be on the phone with IT for several hours, go to lunch at their fancy faculty restaurant, bug people with stories and then go home. He drove my spouse nuts. Every couple months his children and grand children would visit and fawn over how “amazing” he was because he was still working which is probably why he never retired. I really don’t get it - I count down the days until I can retire and want to do it as early as possible.

Omg the rundown of his day made me legit laugh out loud. Especially the computer virus part 😆 Did he get any actual work done?

Not really. And they still had to pay him out of grant money so they would find projects where he would do the least amount of damage. I know this probably sounds mean how I describe him but he didn’t offer a lot of mentoring (it would have been great if he had) and took away from being able to bring on other resources that could help. Like I said, I really don’t understand the mindset but maybe some me day I will. And to be clear, I get that some people are forced to work at these ages (that is a whole other discussion) but this is not that scenario.

[mrshandy]

I was just having this argument with my husband last night re: Biden. People of that generation seem to have this hubris that they can just keep on keeping on and they have to because us younger folk can't be trusted. It's fucking ridiculous. Feinstein should've retired 10+ years ago rather than dying in office. They are screwing over the younger generation by not trusting them and creating an effective transition to that younger generation.

They can't live forever and sure as hell shouldn't work forever.

[sent]

Jul 11, 2024 9:56:42 GMT -5 wildrice said:

I definitely will not become one of those people, lol. I can't freaking wait to retire and someone should probably commit me if I ever get to a point where I think I love working.

(I'm mostly saying that TIC, I get your point and agree with it. We all think we will never act like our parents when we are older, but we probably will)

As long as my mental capabilities are not diminished, I am actively trying to not become that person every time I encounter something from the youths that I don't understand or agree with.

I am also ready to retire from the patient side of my job tomorrow. I could keep going on a computer for a while longer, as long as they don't take away my printer and stationery collection. Which I work with insurance companies who still do things by snail mail so they won't.

[W.T.Faulkner]

The Catholic Church has a mandatory retirement age of 75 for bishops. A BROKEN MOTHERFUCKING CLOCK IS RIGHT TWICE A DAY.

[macmars45]

I think 70/75 is a reasonable retirement age and then if they really want to keep working they have to move to a mentor kind of role.

[calmcosmo]

My MIL was an SES (government) and very successful. She ended up having dementia in her late 60s/early 70s and had to practically be forced out. Despite her sons trying to carefully tell her that it was time to retire, she got more and more angry and dug in that she was "fine". Individuals can have anosognosia where they don't know/realize they have a disease and it makes it extra hard to help them. My MIL would get extremely angry when we would try and assist her (clean her kitchen. help her organize, etc). She started locking doors and cabinets so that we wouldn't be able to see her living situation and her home was absolutely wallpapered in sticky notes prior to finally getting her into assisted living.

My husband is a naval officer and they have age ceilings. Commercial pilots, Air traffic control, etc. I think it is completely reasonable for certain jobs to acknowledge mental deterioration. It's not "ageist" to point out things that are statistically and medically common. It is gaslighting to ask people to just ignore things that could hurt truly impact someone's life or livelihood (judges, pilots, presidents all seem to apply here). Knowing that many elderly have anosognosia and won't just gracefully exit on their own is also important. Unlimited tenure, being the only person with the power to tell you it's time to step down (many politicians) can be very dangerous.