Post by picksthemusic on Jul 19, 2024 15:41:32 GMT -5
I mentioned last week in randoms that my mom and I had a tiff over me setting boundaries for my 12-almost-13yo DD. DD was uncomfortable with my mom asking personal questions about feelings/if she was 'hormonal' because she wasn't responding quickly/cheerfully enough on text. DD also had been uncomfortable with the level of physical affection my mom was showing her when we got together a few months ago (nothing crazy/inappropriate - hand-holding type stuff) that made DD feel uncomfortable and unable to tell her at the time, but has kept bringing it up to me since. This led to me bringing it up with my mom, who in turn got super offended, very defensive, and eventually cut off the conversation. During the conversation, she insulted my parenting saying I was raising a moody teenager, and thought my child should have been able to tell her these things herself. And that I didn't 'say it right', and I could have told her differently and it would have been fine, but because I made it long and drawn out, it was very hurtful. I was saying that since I was the grown-up/parent, that if my child isn't brave enough to do it yet, I was doing it for her. She really didn't like that part.
That was over a week ago, and I haven't heard from her yet. I know she's stewing in it and having a woe-is-me pity party (or maybe not, I don't know). She hasn't texted/called DD or me, and I'm not sure if she will eventually or what. Because I have people-pleasing syndrome from childhood, I feel like I need to reach out to her to extend the olive branch, but the other side of me is saying no, this is her problem, it's up to her to manage her emotions, and I did the right thing. I feel like the longer she refuses contact, the weirder and harder it will be once one of us does. Plus, I feel like she is expecting me to be the one to reach out because she feels I was the one to offend her, not the other way around.
Like I said, I feel like I did the right thing. I stood up to my mom for my child, communicated boundaries she wanted, and it felt good to do that because my mom failed to do that for me when my grandfather picked on me when I was a kid. I didn't want my child to feel like I wasn't on her side, or that I wouldn't help her when she needed it. DD is happy that I talked to her, but feels bad now that my mom hasn't said anything. I am telling her that things like this with adults can be tricky, but it's not up to her to worry about it. Also that she did nothing wrong, and she has every right to set boundaries.
Would you reach out? How long do I wait before checking in? Should I check in at all? I've talked to my brother (they were at a wedding a couple days after this happened that I didn't attend), but he wasn't very helpful, just listened. I'm just torn - it shouldn't have been that big of a deal - don't talk to DD about puberty/hormone stuff, and ask before you try to hold her hand or hug, that kind of thing. But no, she thought pulling away completely was the answer. Ugh.
I'd probably contact her the next time I had a reason to (ETA: meaning I wouldn't purposefully NOT reach out and I also wouldn't reach out JUST to reach out) and act like nothing happened. Because nothing DID happen. You communicated something to her, she didn't like it, it's on her to deal with her own feelings about it.
I'd probably contact her the next time I had a reason to and act like nothing happened. Because nothing DID happen. You communicated something to her, she didn't like it, it's on her to deal with her own feelings about it.
I'd probably contact her the next time I had a reason to (ETA: meaning I wouldn't purposefully NOT reach out and I also wouldn't reach out JUST to reach out) and act like nothing happened. Because nothing DID happen. You communicated something to her, she didn't like it, it's on her to deal with her own feelings about it.
This is exactly what I was thinking. I’d do as well. There’s really no reason to talk about it further, you said what you had to say and she heard you. Hopefully she respects your DD’s boundaries going forward.
Post by wanderlustmom on Jul 19, 2024 15:58:28 GMT -5
I remember your post about this. We went through something similar with MIL years ago and she did NOT receive it well. I agree with others, you were so right to stand up for your daughter. My daughter is still happy we stood up for her. I am not saying I can diagnose your mom or that the situation is the same but I wanted to share anyway.
Basically, our DD has a strong personality and our DS is really calm, my mother in law has favored our son all these years. It's obvious to DH, DD DS and I. Years ago when they were 12 and 10 and visiting her without us--MIL got in the middle of a minor verbal argument between the two of them, told DD she was wrong and told DD to apologize. They came home after, a few days later (MIL lives four hours away) and both told us it upset them. We all four talked about how it was wrong that visit and how the favoring was obvious and hurtful. Our daughter said it really hurt her feelings.
DH confronted his mom and it went so bad. She kept twisting the story around, kept calling him back and trying to get us to take her side, saying both kids were overreacting, never saying sorry. She kept saying it was like we didn't see all that she had done for us. She just became more entrenched in her position, doubled down, made it all about her. It wasn't until years later I got a lot of therapy around it and now I know she has covert narcissistic traits. DH sees it too, she is the worst when things go wrong and she's not self aware at all. We have a different relationship with her now and it's all for the better. It's so sad too, she has a lot of childhood trauma that she's never dealt with and she's mostly a good person. But her narcissistic traits will keep her from therapy.
Also, not super important to the story, but I know and have known zero 12 year olds that hold hands with adults. Most kids in my area stopped/stop around 10. Is that regional to hold hands with adults past 10 years old?
ETA: Not saying it's good or bad if your DD still wants to, just maybe it's a weird thing for your MIL to be upset that your DD no longer wants to do.
Also, I know and have known zero 12 year olds that hold hands with adults. Most kids in my area stopped/stop around 10. Is that regional to hold hands with adults past 10 years old?
I think it's weird too. My kids started asserting their independence in fifth and sixth grade and would not want to hold hands with anyone.
Also, I know and have known zero 12 year olds that hold hands with adults. Most kids in my area stopped/stop around 10. Is that regional to hold hands with adults past 10 years old?
I think it's weird too. My kids started asserting their independence in fifth and sixth grade and would not want to hold hands with anyone.
My kids will--they are 10 and 12. However, they will ONLY do it if they are in the mood too.
I'd probably contact her the next time I had a reason to (ETA: meaning I wouldn't purposefully NOT reach out and I also wouldn't reach out JUST to reach out) and act like nothing happened. Because nothing DID happen. You communicated something to her, she didn't like it, it's on her to deal with her own feelings about it.
This. This is what I do when my mom and I get in little arguments. And now that I have a kid nothing major has happened but she’s def said stuff, I’ve responded, things are awkward and then I just move on and contact her as usual. ETA: I generally have a good relationship with my mom and she is a good person so I just move on.
I want to add, I say that as the daughter that is SO FUCKING TIRED of being the "adult" in these situations with my toddler boomer parents. I used to reach out and I don't anymore.
I would not contact her. Honestly her reaction is way out of line and it makes sense why your DD wouldn’t feel comfortable speaking up for herself if that is her reaction.
I agree with the others. You 100% did the right thing. You laid down the boundary it is on her how she deals with it. Don't ignore her, next time you have cause reach out to her, but not just to resolve this. Act like nothing happened. You do not need to continue the conversation, and reopening the conversation by apologizing or restating the boundary is just going to invite her to argue about it more. Her feelings about this, whatever they are, are her problem, not yours.
Also, not super important to the story, but I know and have known zero 12 year olds that hold hands with adults. Most kids in my area stopped/stop around 10. Is that regional to hold hands with adults past 10 years old?
ETA: Not saying it's good or bad if your DD still wants to, just maybe it's a weird thing for your MIL to be upset that your DD no longer wants to do.
It was more like my mom was getting close to her wanting to link arms/walk super close together and she didn't want to but didn't know how to say so at the time. But you're absolutely right.
It's also that my mom feels like she has more leeway with my kids than with my brother's kids because my SIL set a VERY firm boundary a long time ago, and his kids are generally more physically aloof anyway. So she feels like she can be more freely affectionate with my kids because they're MY kids. Which... is not right at all, I know.
I remember your post about this. We went through something similar with MIL years ago and she did NOT receive it well. I agree with others, you were so right to stand up for your daughter. My daughter is still happy we stood up for her. I am not saying I can diagnose your mom or that the situation is the same but I wanted to share anyway.
Basically, our DD has a strong personality and our DS is really calm, my mother in law has favored our son all these years. It's obvious to DH, DD DS and I. Years ago when they were 12 and 10 and visiting her without us--MIL got in the middle of a minor verbal argument between the two of them, told DD she was wrong and told DD to apologize. They came home after, a few days later (MIL lives four hours away) and both told us it upset them. We all four talked about how it was wrong that visit and how the favoring was obvious and hurtful. Our daughter said it really hurt her feelings.
DH confronted his mom and it went so bad. She kept twisting the story around, kept calling him back and trying to get us to take her side, saying both kids were overreacting, never saying sorry. She kept saying it was like we didn't see all that she had done for us. She just became more entrenched in her position, doubled down, made it all about her. It wasn't until years later I got a lot of therapy around it and now I know she has covert narcissistic traits. DH sees it too, she is the worst when things go wrong and she's not self aware at all. We have a different relationship with her now and it's all for the better. It's so sad too, she has a lot of childhood trauma that she's never dealt with and she's mostly a good person. But her narcissistic traits will keep her from therapy.
I know your DH isn't my brother but that's my mom to a T. Making things about her constantly, childhood PTSD (which she absolutely has - her father/my grandfather beat the crap out of them with a belt military style), and is still a good person overall. She also was a middle school teacher most of her career, which is why her not understanding my tween's issues all the more confusing.
I'd probably contact her the next time I had a reason to (ETA: meaning I wouldn't purposefully NOT reach out and I also wouldn't reach out JUST to reach out) and act like nothing happened. Because nothing DID happen. You communicated something to her, she didn't like it, it's on her to deal with her own feelings about it.
I agree. Just send a normal text like you normally would like nothing happened.
CLASSIC. Such a classic older person reaction to the slightest hint that the people around them are well, people. I especially noted how she made it YOUR fault for how you said it. Because we all know that she wasn’t shocked and embarrassed at her own behavior. Oh, no! It was only shock and embarrassment at you and how you said it.
It’s clear to me that your mother absolutely puts you in charge of her feelings and managing how she feels. She said it. “You didn’t tell her right.” And she’s pushing that onto your daughter, too. “She should have just old me then.” Not once did you convey that she understood that other people have a right how they feel and she would be the one to adjust. It was ALL “you both have to worry about how I feel, worry about how I hear it, worry about how to tell me so I feel comfortable.”
ETA: You wrote that she literally said that “if you told her right, she would have been fine.” Bullshit, grandma. She got her feelings hurt and is blaming YOU instead of just hearing you, adjusting, and moving on. And then she attacked your parenting. More bullshit. Very classic.
ETA2: What do you do next? Well, you do self-talk like “I am not in charge of how my mother feels. It’s not my job to keep her comfortable and happy. That’s her job because she is the adult I am going to treat her that way even if she is trying to make me mange her. I won’t take responsibility for her feelings. That’s on her.” And then do or don’t do whatever you want to do. This includes calling or not calling. Whenever you want to. Or don’t if you don’t want to. It’s hard, I know. But when I don’t want to feel tense and bothered, when **I** want to move on, I either make a connection or act normally when she does. My mom doesn’t drag it out. She acts as normal. (Which is its own weirdness.) But hold firm to what your daughter wants to change. It’s totally reasonable!
CLASSIC. Such a classic older person reaction to the slightest hint that the people around them are well, people. I especially noted how she made it YOUR fault for how you said it. Because we all know that she wasn’t shocked and embarrassed at her own behavior. Oh, no! It was only shock and embarrassment at you and how you said it.
It’s clear to me that your mother absolutely puts you in charge of her feelings and managing how she feels. She said it. “You didn’t tell her right.” And she’s pushing that onto your daughter, too. “She should have just old me then.” Not once did you convey that she understood that other people have a right how they feel and she would be the one to adjust. It was ALL “you both have to worry about how I feel, worry about how I hear it, worry about how to tell me so I feel comfortable.”
Yup. The appropriate response should have been like 'Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry! I hope she knows I would never make her feel uncomfortable on purpose. I'll reach out to her and apologize and let her know she was right in telling you and that she did the right thing. How embarrassing - I'll be sure to work on that from now on.'
Girl. Do not reach out for the sake of reaching out. Let her be uncomfortable.
So much this…let her be uncomfortable.
You did the absolute right thing.
Also, we need to talk more about how Boomer parents are not remotely self aware, and get super offended if we don’t agree with every single thing they do.
How often do you normally talk to her? I am close with my mom and it would be super unusual to go a week without talking - unless one of us is traveling, we talk probably 4-6x a week and text some, too. So no contact for a week would be a strong message and honestly I probably would reach out, but would also probably just let what happened go and just act normally so we can move forward. I don't think this means we would just pretend I never set the boundary, but I wouldn't feel like an apology was needed to pick up contact again.
Your mom sounds a lot like my mom, and like PP mentioned, I'm pretty sure my mom is also a covert narcissist. She turns everything around to be about herself, she never gets why what she does is wrong, will only adhere to boundaries that she already agrees anyway, and always has some excuse for her behavior. She's overall a good person too, and the boundary pushing is "smaller" stuff, often things she thinks she should be able to do because she has the role of mom or grandma.
You did the right thing. I don't know the right answer about when/how to reach out, but do you get the sense she'll adhere to your daughter's boundaries after this? If not, I think you need to talk to her about what you expect going forward, and how you will proceed so that your daughter isn't put in this position again. Her continuing to do what she wants with your daughter, insulting your parenting and your daughter, is not the option.
Post by fivechickens on Jul 20, 2024 6:39:27 GMT -5
My mom used to get really defensive when told she was doing something I didn’t like so I get it. Don’t reach out. Let her stew. Calling her would make her think she could go back to not respecting Dd boundaries.
I'd probably contact her the next time I had a reason to (ETA: meaning I wouldn't purposefully NOT reach out and I also wouldn't reach out JUST to reach out) and act like nothing happened. Because nothing DID happen. You communicated something to her, she didn't like it, it's on her to deal with her own feelings about it.
This right here.
Your mom sounds like one of those people who needs to be taught how to treat their adult offspring. She is dramatic and over-reacting; she will read a check-in as an admission that she was justifiably upset by what you said.
I am formerly a people-pleaser, and my psychotic father worked that angle to his advantage for years (our major point of contention was also my parenting style) until I snapped and put him on the no-fly list for a good 5 years. It changed our relationship for the better when he finally came around.
Well, this seems to be the opposite of pretty much everyone, but I think I would call her. She obviously feels defensive, hurt, and probably embarrassed, and isn’t sure how to approach talking again. I think I would give it a shot. If you usually have a close relationship, I would call her….”mom, that was a tough conversation the other day. I’m sorry that it took you by surprise. I want you to continue to have a good relationship with DD so it was important that you understood her feelings and could respect her boundaries..I don’t want this to be some kind of wedge between us. I hope we can move on from here.”
And if she is conciliatory, great. And she gets angry and defensive again then I would get off the phone and not call her back.
I remember your post about this. We went through something similar with MIL years ago and she did NOT receive it well. I agree with others, you were so right to stand up for your daughter. My daughter is still happy we stood up for her. I am not saying I can diagnose your mom or that the situation is the same but I wanted to share anyway.
Basically, our DD has a strong personality and our DS is really calm, my mother in law has favored our son all these years. It's obvious to DH, DD DS and I. Years ago when they were 12 and 10 and visiting her without us--MIL got in the middle of a minor verbal argument between the two of them, told DD she was wrong and told DD to apologize. They came home after, a few days later (MIL lives four hours away) and both told us it upset them. We all four talked about how it was wrong that visit and how the favoring was obvious and hurtful. Our daughter said it really hurt her feelings.
DH confronted his mom and it went so bad. She kept twisting the story around, kept calling him back and trying to get us to take her side, saying both kids were overreacting, never saying sorry. She kept saying it was like we didn't see all that she had done for us. She just became more entrenched in her position, doubled down, made it all about her. It wasn't until years later I got a lot of therapy around it and now I know she has covert narcissistic traits. DH sees it too, she is the worst when things go wrong and she's not self aware at all. We have a different relationship with her now and it's all for the better. It's so sad too, she has a lot of childhood trauma that she's never dealt with and she's mostly a good person. But her narcissistic traits will keep her from therapy.
I know your DH isn't my brother but that's my mom to a T. Making things about her constantly, childhood PTSD (which she absolutely has - her father/my grandfather beat the crap out of them with a belt military style), and is still a good person overall. She also was a middle school teacher most her career, which is why her not understanding my tween's issues all the more confusing.
So glad we can relate on this! Yes my MIL was a special ed teacher so she knows how to be kind and nice. I think she thinks because she prioritizes her grandkids and spends a lot of time with them (which she absolutely does) that she gets to call the shots and she has to be in total control. It works fine for DH and DS who are laid back but she has been not nice to me several occasions because I challenged her and my DD did challenge her authority when she was little so my MIL has pretty much written her off.
So I give her the gray rock now and it's sad, we have less of a relationship. But I can't be close to someone who can be mean to my DD and then deny it. I think a lot of boomers are scared of therapy. MIL will actually say she had a great childhood after both her siblings have told us stories of abuse. She will ask me about my therapy and medicine for my anxiety but it's clear she doesn't want to face her own feelings.
I hope you will continue to make gains in your boundaries with your mom.