Chicken wings advertised as ‘boneless’ can have bones

[wesleycrusher]

Chicken wings advertised as ‘boneless’ can have bones, Ohio Supreme Court decides


apnews.com/article/boneless-chicken-wings-lawsuit-ohio-supreme-court-231002ea50d8157aeadf093223d539f8


Consumers cannot expect boneless chicken wings to actually be free of bones, a divided Ohio Supreme Court ruled Thursday, rejecting claims by a restaurant patron who suffered serious medical complications from getting a bone stuck in his throat. [...] In a 4-3 ruling, the Supreme Court said Thursday that “boneless wings” refers to a cooking style, and that Berkheimer should’ve been on guard against bones since it’s common knowledge that chickens have bones.

there is an @ mention at the end of the article.

Someone make this ruling make sense to me!

[rubytue]

The only explanation is that the people don’t matter, only what capitalist businesses do and say.

[jlt19]

I hope the asshole that wrote that opinion breaks his tooth eating his next hamburger. That’s the dumbest fucking ruling I’ve ever seen.

[fortnightlily]

This feels down right Orwellean.

There's a Lebanese place near me that keeps giving me bones in their chicken sandwich. Whyyyyyyy.

[wanderingback]

Shouldn’t restaurants be required to have fine print that says "may contain bones" to help protect themselves.

I know when I’m at the grocery store buying salmon and they debone it for me sometimes there’s still a few small bones they miss.

I know nothing about the food chain process. Who is responsible for checking to make sure bones are removed?

[tacokick]

It’s an odd decision from a food standpoint because “boneless wings” is not a cooking style nor are they “made from chicken wings”. They are chicken nuggets (or strips) 99.9% of time from breast meat. Which does have bones but not at the level of a wing.

Has no one involved ever made food or seen anyone do it? How did that argument work? IMO it opens up to finding bones in any kind of product that contains meat as something that is totally fine. Currently if a grocery store nugget or frozen stir fry or whatever labeled as boneless unexpectedly has been found to have large bones in it, it’s recalled. Will that become a thing of the past?

[archiethedragon]

This is from the USDA

ask.usda.gov/s/article/Is-bone-considered-foreign-material-if-found-in-boneless-meat-and-poultry-products

Is bone considered foreign material if found in boneless meat and poultry products?

Jan 29, 2024

KNOWLEDGE ARTICLE
Bones in meat products are not considered foreign material because they are a natural part of the carcass. Foreign materials are non-animal objects such as metal, rubber, glass, wood, steel and lead shot. Meat and poultry products derived from advanced meat recovery machinery may contain bone particles. The Food Safety and Inspection Service regulates bone particle size limits and calcium content in these products. For help with meat, poultry and egg products produced in a United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) inspected plant, call the USDA Meat and Poultry Hotline at (888) MPHotline (888-674-6854).

[tacokick]

Jul 26, 2024 8:23:36 GMT -5 wanderingback said:

Shouldn’t restaurants be required to have fine print that says "may contain bones" to help protect themselves.

I know when I’m at the grocery store buying salmon and they debone it for me sometimes there’s still a few small bones they miss.

I know nothing about the food chain process. Who is responsible for checking to make sure bones are removed?

Grocery store food and restaurant food generally have different rules about labeling but it’s generally a reactive process. Someone finds a large bone in their food, reports it, the FDA can issue a recall.

Most places aren’t making processing and breading their own boneless wings in house so normally what would happen is that the supplier is notified and the food gets pulled. The supplier might have a disclaimer on their packaging but generally it’s up to the restaurant to decide how to warn their customers. It can vary by state/location.

The rules are different for raw foods that you are preparing yourself like salmon. You are expected to inspect your own food when you prepare it for bones/spoilage etc

[tacokick]

Jul 26, 2024 8:37:58 GMT -5 archiethedragon said:

This is from the USDA

ask.usda.gov/s/article/Is-bone-considered-foreign-material-if-found-in-boneless-meat-and-poultry-products

Is bone considered foreign material if found in boneless meat and poultry products?

Jan 29, 2024

KNOWLEDGE ARTICLE
Bones in meat products are not considered foreign material because they are a natural part of the carcass. Foreign materials are non-animal objects such as metal, rubber, glass, wood, steel and lead shot. Meat and poultry products derived from advanced meat recovery machinery may contain bone particles. The Food Safety and Inspection Service regulates bone particle size limits and calcium content in these products. For help with meat, poultry and egg products produced in a United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) inspected plant, call the USDA Meat and Poultry Hotline at (888) MPHotline (888-674-6854).

It sounds like this guy found something a lot larger than a “bone particle” which is why this ruling is surprising to me. Most people wouldn’t even notice a bone particle much less get it lodged in their throat.

[pixy0stix]

I thought it was common knowledge that meat products, especially chickens, can have bones in them even if processed. This ruling makes sense to me.

[pixy0stix]

Are we this removed from our food supply that people don't understand how this can happen?

[tacokick]

Jul 26, 2024 9:06:37 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I thought it was common knowledge that meat products, especially chickens, can have bones in them even if processed. This ruling makes sense to me.

There are bone size limits for processed food that are considered harmless to the consumer. This seems to have exceeded that limit and caused harm.


ETA: It’s similar to the hot coffee case. Yes, hot coffee is hot but it’s reasonable to expect that it won’t be so hot it will disfigure you if it spills on your lap.

[pixy0stix]

Jul 26, 2024 9:15:06 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Jul 26, 2024 9:06:37 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

I thought it was common knowledge that meat products, especially chickens, can have bones in them even if processed. This ruling makes sense to me.

There are bone size limits for processed food that are considered harmless to the consumer. This seems to have exceeded that limit and caused harm.


ETA: It’s similar to the hot coffee case. Yes, hot coffee is hot but it’s reasonable to expect that it won’t be so hot it will disfigure you if it spills on your lap.

The bone piece was 5 cm (2 inches), which seems like it would be reasonable that chewing would have alerted him that something was wrong. I've gotten smaller bone pieces from McD's McNuggets which are harder to detect.

[pixy0stix]

RE: Comparing it to the hot coffee case - no. The restaurant in the hot coffee case regularly kept the coffee at a temperature too hot to drink. Hot enough to cause disfigurement if dumped on a person, which is not regular practice for any restaurant by any stretch of imagination.

This chicken bone is part of the regular butchering process. I do think there probably needs to be warning labels on chicken products, and I think there is on the frozen bags you buy for home, because most people now don't realize that chicken bones can be in anything with chicken.

[tacokick]

Jul 26, 2024 9:22:14 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jul 26, 2024 9:15:06 GMT -5 tacokick said:

There are bone size limits for processed food that are considered harmless to the consumer. This seems to have exceeded that limit and caused harm.


ETA: It’s similar to the hot coffee case. Yes, hot coffee is hot but it’s reasonable to expect that it won’t be so hot it will disfigure you if it spills on your lap.

The bone piece was 5 cm (2 inches), which seems like it would be reasonable that chewing would have alerted him that something was wrong. I've gotten smaller bone pieces from McD's McNuggets which are harder to detect.

It seems like it was a long thin piece of flexible bone/cartilage and he didn’t realize what it was until it was too late and it caused harm.

2 inches is too big for a piece of bone in a processed boneless food product.

[tacokick]

Jul 26, 2024 9:32:33 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

RE: Comparing it to the hot coffee case - no. The restaurant in the hot coffee case regularly kept the coffee at a temperature too hot to drink. Hot enough to cause disfigurement if dumped on a person, which is not regular practice for any restaurant by any stretch of imagination.

It shouldn’t be regular practice for a food processor not to follow FDA rules about bone size in processed foods labeled as boneless either.

He was unlucky that he got the thin, sharp bone just like she was unlucky that the drink spilled on her and caused such severe damage. Other people may have gotten bones that were more noticeable and didn’t injure themselves just as apparently hundreds were served that hot coffee and didn’t injure themselves.

[pixy0stix]

Jul 26, 2024 9:54:41 GMT -5 tacokick said:

Jul 26, 2024 9:32:33 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

RE: Comparing it to the hot coffee case - no. The restaurant in the hot coffee case regularly kept the coffee at a temperature too hot to drink. Hot enough to cause disfigurement if dumped on a person, which is not regular practice for any restaurant by any stretch of imagination.

It shouldn’t be regular practice for a food processor not to follow FDA rules about bone size in processed foods labeled as boneless either.

He was unlucky that he got the thin, sharp bone just like she was unlucky that the drink spilled on her and caused such severe damage. Other people may have gotten bones that were more noticeable and didn’t injure themselves just as apparently hundreds were served that hot coffee and didn’t injure themselves.

No, that's not the argument. The coffee was an aberration on the restaurant. That location was serving coffee that was hotter than their regulations and it had been noted several times that it was too hot. They knew their coffee was too hot.

The chicken is something that sometimes happens with normal processing. It was an accident in the realm of normal.

[tacokick]

Jul 26, 2024 10:01:20 GMT -5 pixy0stix said:

Jul 26, 2024 9:54:41 GMT -5 tacokick said:

It shouldn’t be regular practice for a food processor not to follow FDA rules about bone size in processed foods labeled as boneless either.

He was unlucky that he got the thin, sharp bone just like she was unlucky that the drink spilled on her and caused such severe damage. Other people may have gotten bones that were more noticeable and didn’t injure themselves just as apparently hundreds were served that hot coffee and didn’t injure themselves.

No, that's not the argument. The coffee was an aberration on the restaurant. That location was serving coffee that was hotter than their regulations and it had been noted several times that it was too hot. They knew their coffee was too hot.

The chicken is something that sometimes happens with normal processing. It was an accident in the realm of normal.

If it was sold in a supermarket it would have triggered a recall.

[aurora]

In all of my years of buying boneless chicken at the store I have never found a 2" segment of bone. If course I know that chickens have bones and I would not be surprised if small bits get through the de-boning process, but today is definitely the first I've learned that I need to watch out for something that size. Either I'm oblivious or that size limit isn't exactly common knowledge.

[gottadobe]

Jul 26, 2024 10:56:02 GMT -5 aurora said:

In all of my years of buying boneless chicken at the store I have never found a 2" segment of bone. If course I know that chickens have bones and I would not be surprised if small bits get through the de-boning process, but today is definitely the first I've learned that I need to watch out for something that size. Either I'm oblivious or that size limit isn't exactly common knowledge.

I have bought boneless skinless breasts and had to cut off an entire piece of cartilage/bone on the side.
I can see where "strips" could have a large piece of cartilage/bone if not cleaned properly. 

[aurora]

Jul 26, 2024 10:58:54 GMT -5 gottadobe said:

Jul 26, 2024 10:56:02 GMT -5 aurora said:

In all of my years of buying boneless chicken at the store I have never found a 2" segment of bone. If course I know that chickens have bones and I would not be surprised if small bits get through the de-boning process, but today is definitely the first I've learned that I need to watch out for something that size. Either I'm oblivious or that size limit isn't exactly common knowledge.

I have bought boneless skinless breasts and had to cut off an entire piece of cartilage/bone on the side.
I can see where "strips" could have a large piece of cartilage/bone if not cleaned properly. 

Interesting.

I did leave open the possibility that I am oblivious. It's also possible I've just been lucky.

[mofongo]

Meat is so gross, that's my takeaway.

[tacokick]

Jul 26, 2024 10:58:54 GMT -5 gottadobe said:

Jul 26, 2024 10:56:02 GMT -5 aurora said:

In all of my years of buying boneless chicken at the store I have never found a 2" segment of bone. If course I know that chickens have bones and I would not be surprised if small bits get through the de-boning process, but today is definitely the first I've learned that I need to watch out for something that size. Either I'm oblivious or that size limit isn't exactly common knowledge.

I have bought boneless skinless breasts and had to cut off an entire piece of cartilage/bone on the side.
I can see where "strips" could have a large piece of cartilage/bone if not cleaned properly. 

The regs for raw meat are a little different than for more processed chicken like boneless wings/meat in stir fry. There is an expectation that you (or a restaurant) would see that and remove it yourself.

[heygrey]

Jul 26, 2024 11:21:44 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Meat is so gross, that's my takeaway.

Yup. I am not truly vegetarian, but I eat veg out of the house because I don't trust how meat was processed/handled/cooked. 

We are starting to raise most of our own meat (a friend has a small ranch so we pay them) and H butchers it himself. 

[wanderingback]

Yeah I don’t think this can be compared to the hot coffee case based on what is presented here. Apples and oranges.

[jane6672]

This is reminding me of a friend in college who was dead certain that “boneless” wings came from chickens that had been genetically modified so they’d grow without bones.

We thought he was joking. He was not.