@ WWYD: Ex-SIL edition

[sofamonkey]

Yeesh. Edmonds to gas works is like at least 45 mins. Each way, with no traffic.

I can see annoyance, but I’d point that where it goes - FIL. As far as your kiddos, I think you handled it well helping them advocate for themselves. I’d probably toss in a talk with DS about making sure he has his booster if he goes until you let him know he no longer needs it.

I’m sorry, that sounds overall very stressful. Huge hugs.

[mccallister84]

For the booster thing - I’d be mad at my 10 year old for that. He’s old enough to know he shouldn’t be riding in a car without it. Unless he told everyone he needed the booster and they ignored him….

[Deleted]

Ditto everyone else. It sounds like she treated your kids to a fun day? Other than the coffee, which honestly happens kind of a lot with kids and I kind of think if you take kids places for food/snacks, they may order something and not consume it.

Your 10 year old is old enough that he could have reminded all adults that he still uses a booster. If he or FIL didn’t tell her, I doubt she’d think about it. My son is 10 and neither he nor any of his friends still use a booster, so it wouldn’t even occur to me unless a parent or the child said something. I 100% respect that you have chosen to keep your child in a booster, and I would absolutely comply if I knew about, but it would honestly never occur to me.

I agree with everyone else. If you don’t want the kids going with anyone else without your express permission, you need to let your family know. Your kids sound old enough to help keep other relatives in the loop on their location (via text) and remind adults about booster seats.

[circa1978]

Pending some sort of clarifying information in a follow-up post, I'm on team not totally understanding the outrage. She isn't related to your children by blood but she was their aunt for most of their lives and I assume she must still be on good terms with everyone and isn't a crazy person, since BIL and FIL saw no problem in this.

I'd be irritated at FIL since he passed on the child-minding to someone else, and you deserve to know where your kids are, but to me, she sounds like she had good intentions. Oh, FIL has the kids and I've got time to take them on a fun outing and do everyone a favor. If I were her, I would have texted your DH/you to make sure everything was OK but I wouldn't be outraged over this.

I also would not have thought to put a 10YO in a booster unless they were unusually small. 

[picksthemusic]

Sept 3, 2024 14:37:03 GMT -5 ny96 said:

I agree with Maudefindlay. I would not expect a 10 year old to use a booster and so I wouldn’t think to put another person’s 10 year old in one (I’m not making a judgement either way, I just wouldn’t think of it). It doesn’t sound like you trust her and so I wouldn’t let her take them again, but I don’t think what she did was out of line.

In WA the law is 4'9" and he's not tall enough yet - so he's still in a booster.

And to answer questions - yes, XSIL is someone we don't particularly trust very much (there is stuff around the divorce/what caused the divorce that she did that was not good) and she hasn't been in charge of the kids for several years - she was when DD was really little but we lived with them at the time, and only for about a year when both kids were small, about 7-8 years ago.

I can see the opinion that it's NBD because the kids were okay - but they really can't talk to her due to the language barrier, and they didn't ask to do this, nor did they come home feeling good about it, which I realize I forgot to mention.

[picksthemusic]

Sept 3, 2024 14:41:29 GMT -5 TR said:

So BIL is your DH’s brother? And is divorced from XSIL? I guess I’m more confused why they’re hanging out a year later, but to each their own lol

It's a whole thing - mostly because XSIL doesn't have a great job or means to move out on her own. We stay out of it for the most part. lol

[mofongo]

Sept 3, 2024 16:14:16 GMT -5 picksthemusic said:

Sept 3, 2024 14:37:03 GMT -5 ny96 said:

I agree with Maudefindlay. I would not expect a 10 year old to use a booster and so I wouldn’t think to put another person’s 10 year old in one (I’m not making a judgement either way, I just wouldn’t think of it). It doesn’t sound like you trust her and so I wouldn’t let her take them again, but I don’t think what she did was out of line.

In WA the law is 4'9" and he's not tall enough yet - so he's still in a booster.

And to answer questions - yes, XSIL is someone we don't particularly trust very much (there is stuff around the divorce/what caused the divorce that she did that was not good) and she hasn't been in charge of the kids for several years - she was when DD was really little but we lived with them at the time, and only for about a year when both kids were small, about 7-8 years ago.

I can see the opinion that it's NBD because the kids were okay - but they really can't talk to her due to the language barrier, and they didn't ask to do this, nor did they come home feeling good about it, which I realize I forgot to mention.

I don’t think anything good would come from contacting her. I would talk to your FIL and BIL and set expectations to ask if it’s ok for your kids to do something, and that she is not allowed to be responsible for your kids again. I’d also be annoyed with them about the booster, but agree that 10 is old enough to know, and most kids are out of boosters by then.

ETA: Wait, she lives there?!

[picksthemusic]

Sept 3, 2024 15:09:20 GMT -5 bears said:

Is your concern with your SIL being Deaf? Or was it that she didn't have a good way to communicate with your kids? Otherwise, I'm really confused why you are so angry.

My kids are the same age and, as long as I was comfortable with xSIL, I would have no concerns and would be glad they got out of the house. I would talk to DD about how she has a phone for situations just like this one, and should always text or call me or MH if she's uncomfortable in a situation.

That's the main thing - they weren't out having fun conversations, nor could they easily communicate issues easily if they arose.

I think bottom line, I'm irritated that FIL didn't let us know 'hey, XSIL wants to take the kids out for the afternoon, is that okay?' and we would have been like 'sure, just make sure B has his booster and let us know when they get back'. I think it was also the lack of communication on her part to tell the adult in charge (FIL) where they were going so he would know if they were late to check in or whatever.

And yes - there are trust issues with XSIL due to some things that have happened in the past that make us question her judgment (nothing dangerous but ill-informed stuff).

I appreciate all the responses and the call out for overreacting. I can absolutely see why it would be seen that way.

[picksthemusic]

Sept 3, 2024 15:29:11 GMT -5 7costanza said:

I’m local so am familiar with the distances you’re taking about and would be annoyed, but not angry about this. I would let it go after talking to FIL and BIL about expectations around communication and booster usage. It’s totally reasonable to want to know where your kids are and who they are with, but it’s not clear that FIL knew he needed permission to let them go with XSIL. That being said, it definitely sounds like there is backstory that could make me feel differently and understand the rage response more!

Not the point, but I’m also curious which mini golf you thought they were going to? I’d love to have a closer option than Rainbow Run or Paine Field park.

We're in Everett area, so there's one in Snohomish by the farming area near Hwy 9 that is really popular. We've been wanting to take the kids there for a while. I appreciate your response.

[tacokick]

If you all lived together for at least a year, maybe she thinks she is closer to the kids than you think she is?

I’m a little confused about why the kids couldn’t communicate with her, if she is Deaf with no hearing aids she must be used to using other methods to communicate all the time since most people don’t know ASL. At their ages I’d think they’d be able to write a note or something and she’d direct them to do that or have an app to help. She also should have communicated with FIL better—did he try to reach her when they were gone for hours?

I’m sorry they didn’t have fun and it sounds like a stressful trip for them.

I would be annoyed at my FIL for not checking if it was okay if they went on what was basically a day trip with someone else. It seems reasonable to know where your kids are and since they weren’t even supposed to be at BIL’s house at all much less out with ex SIL so all of this must feel even more out of the blue.

[picksthemusic]

Sept 3, 2024 16:19:08 GMT -5 mofongo said:

Sept 3, 2024 16:14:16 GMT -5 picksthemusic said:

In WA the law is 4'9" and he's not tall enough yet - so he's still in a booster.

And to answer questions - yes, XSIL is someone we don't particularly trust very much (there is stuff around the divorce/what caused the divorce that she did that was not good) and she hasn't been in charge of the kids for several years - she was when DD was really little but we lived with them at the time, and only for about a year when both kids were small, about 7-8 years ago.

I can see the opinion that it's NBD because the kids were okay - but they really can't talk to her due to the language barrier, and they didn't ask to do this, nor did they come home feeling good about it, which I realize I forgot to mention.

I don’t think anything good would come from contacting her. I would talk to your FIL and BIL and set expectations to ask if it’s ok for your kids to do something, and that she is not allowed to be responsible for your kids again. I’d also be annoyed with them about the booster, but agree that 10 is old enough to know, and most kids are out of boosters by then.

ETA: Wait, she lives there?!

LOL yes. Like I said upthread it's a whole thing - she claims she can't get a place of her own so they are essentially roommates at this point. And the house is in FIL's name so it's not up to my BIL to move out - and she won't/can't leave. And my ILs are too nice to evict her (yet - their patience is wearing thin on getting her to pay her rent on time/in full).

[picksthemusic]

Sept 3, 2024 16:30:29 GMT -5 tacokick said:

If you all lived together for at least a year, maybe she thinks she is closer to the kids than you think she is?

I’m a little confused about why the kids couldn’t communicate with her, if she is Deaf with no hearing aids she must be used to using other methods to communicate all the time since most people don’t know ASL. At their ages I’d think they’d be able to write a note or something and she’d direct them to do that or have an app to help. She also should have communicated with FIL better—did he try to reach her when they were gone for hours?

I’m sorry they didn’t have fun and it sounds like a stressful trip for them.

I would be annoyed at my FIL for not checking if it was okay if they went on what was basically a day trip with someone else. It seems reasonable to know where your kids are and since they weren’t even supposed to be at BIL’s house at all much less out with ex SIL so all of this must feel even more out of the blue.

Yeah BIL uses a translation app where if we're having a conversation, it basically puts it in writing on his phone so he can read what we're saying. I am not totally sure what XSIL uses or if she tried communicating through an app or notes or whatever. She does use her voice/speak a bit, but I know both kids have a hard time understanding her still. I know she communicates with waitstaff and clerks with hand-written stuff or on her notes app on her phone. I need to clarify with the kids how they talked to her while they were out.

I think they were happy to be out and about, but I think they would have had more fun if BIL joined in, but I also can see why he chose to stay home since he and XSIL don't hang out anymore unless they have to. 

Again, thanks everyone for the reassurance and stuff. It's been over a decade of rollercoaster drama with XSIL and she is just not someone we would spend time with outside family functions (when she was married) because we are so different and frankly any time I ever tried to be her friend, it blew up in my face for one reason or another. So granted she's not my favorite person, she's not dangerous or anything like that. It was just bad judgment and communication all around for the grown-ups that were involved.

[cville]

I'd be furious with FIL. If you're watching my kids, I expect YOU to be watching my kids. If you're going to send them elsewhere with someone else, it's on you to make sure that's OK with me.

I think XSIL is a loony, untrustworthy butthead, which is why FIL should've known better.

[expectantsteelerfan]

Sept 3, 2024 14:51:15 GMT -5 meanie said:

If someone makes choices that make you uncomfortable while they are supervising your children, they simply wouldn't have the opportunity to be in that situation again.

I'm sorry, it sounds like it was a very frustrating situation with a lot of mis/noncommunication, but I don't think there is anything to do other than avoid it in the future.

I'm here.  As my kids have gotten older, I've learned to accept that if we are trusting them to another adult's care, we need to actually TRUST that adult to use their judgement when making decisions about their care, because if they needed to check with you for every little thing, you might as well not actually leave them with anyone.  

We use both sets of parents for help with the kids (just today MIL picked dd up from school and took her to an appt. because I didn't realize I had booked ds an appt. at the same time.  They had time to stop for ice cream on the way to the appt.  Would I have stopped to get DD ice cream before an appt.?  No.  But did it hurt her?  No.  I'm not going to say anything about it.

Similarly, my mom watched both my kids all weekend for us while we were out of state at a wedding.  She called me on Sunday to let ds ask me if he could go to the trampoline place with a friend, yet she didn't call me to ask if it was ok for her to take DD with her Friday night (while ds was at a football game) to a friend's house to play board games, and then left DD there with her friends while she went to pick ds up from the game.  I wouldn't have cared if she had made a decision on the trampoline place on her own, but was slightly annoyed she left DD with adults DD/I don't know at a random person's house.  But again, DD said she wanted to stay rather than ride with her to pick up ds (and she is 13), so also not a huge deal.  

People might not care for my kids exactly as I would, but if I'm going to use them to care for my kids, that's ok as long as they aren't crossing major lines.  

In your case I would probably talk to FIL and say hey, if you have my kids and someone else is going to drive them somewhere, please make sure ds has a booster seat.  Or even, if you have the kids and plans change and they are going to be with a different adult, could you let us know?  But I wouldn't go beyond that.  

[Jalapeñomel]

Something about the booster that’s really neither here nor there:

Regardless of law, I could easily see a 10 year old not telling the adult he has to use a booster, and then he’s thrilled he has conned the adult into letting him go without!

[mccallister84]

Sept 3, 2024 18:37:18 GMT -5 Jalapeñomel said:

Something about the booster that’s really neither here nor there:

Regardless of law, I could easily see a 10 year old not telling the adult he has to use a booster, and then he’s thrilled he has conned the adult into letting him go without!

Oh 10000%. I can see my 7.5 year old also trying it with childless adults. But then she would have consequences as she knows she does need it. I just don’t think the XSIL is the one to be annoyed with regarding the booster.

[stemmie]

I'd be pissed FIL delegated his child tending duties without your permission.

The deafness would be an issue for me. It would be sort of like sending kids off with someone who speaks a different language. I grew up with 2 deaf cousins. The younger one has cochlear implants but the older one embraces deafness as a culture rather than disability. I think OC's reaction is, in part, a justified reaction to being sent to a so-called oral school (week boarding) as a very young child. Her parents wanted her to be like everybody else. She didn't pick up ASL until college so none of us growing up learned it. Communicating with her is very challenging even by text-- I can't imagine even trying in a car when the driver needs to be 100% focused.

[minzy]

My first thought is that I would enable tracking on my kids’ phones. Since I swear half of my communication with my family is “where are you and when are you coming home?” tracking resolves that.

I’m sorry for a stressful day. I probably wouldn’t do a whole lot else about this for now.

[fiddles]

I may be wrong, but is BIL deaf as well? You mentioned he uses a translation app. Perhaps that is also why FIL didn't see anything wrong with them going with her and her being deaf.

As others said, I wouldn't reach out to SIL. This is definitely an issue with FIL and if the kids are in his care, he should contact you or your husband to ask permission if they are to go with anyone else.

[picksthemusic]

Sept 4, 2024 10:54:30 GMT -5 fiddles said:

I may be wrong, but is BIL deaf as well? You mentioned he uses a translation app. Perhaps that is also why FIL didn't see anything wrong with them going with her and her being deaf.

As others said, I wouldn't reach out to SIL. This is definitely an issue with FIL and if the kids are in his care, he should contact you or your husband to ask permission if they are to go with anyone else.

Yes, DH's two younger brothers are Deaf. I've been around them for 17 years and have learned a ton about Deaf culture and know that they can function as autonomous adults in society just fine and do just as well as people who can hear. **ETA - that sounded snarkier than I intended - just stating what I know, not that you implied I felt differently.

Thanks, all! I truly appreciate the perspective check.

[sonrisa]

I’m with those who feel the problem lies with FIL. He was supposed to care for the kids and sent them off without telling you or making sure they had adequate carseating. It also sounds like he didn’t discuss timing or her plans with her.

I’m also puzzled why no one knew where they were. When things took longer than expected, why didn’t anyone text her and check in?

[ellipses84]

I’d be most upset at SIL for the lack of car seat and that she took them much further / longer than your FIL agreed to with no communication with him. I’m originally from the Seattle area and I think all the places she went is pretty crazy when they thought they were at mini golf nearby! I’m assuming your daughter could use her phone to type something to her aunt for communication if needed and this can be a lesson learned for her about how deal with situations like this in the future. I’d email exSIL and let her know you are upset but focus on the safety issues, acknowledge FIL should not have let them go, and that she needs your permission to take your kids anywhere in the future. Even better if this email comes from your DH since it’s his family and he was the primary caretaker while you were OOT.

I’d be mad at FIL too, as the kids were officially in his care, but I think the best thing you can do is make sure he knows not to let the kids out of his care in the future without getting your clear permission and making sure they have a booster seat (if you let him babysit again). Let everyone in the family who cares for the kids know you don’t want her alone with the kids again.

[HRH Queen Dick I]

Fuck's sake.

[sparkythelawyer]

Honestly, I'm not sure why you're mad at SIL vs. FIL. FIL let them go, the children were in HIS care.

Beyond that? They had a phone if there was real danger. They live to fight another day.

I realize apparently SIL is an issue, but without hearing what is inherently dangerous here, (the booster seat is an issue, but ok), I'd say that it's over and done and move on.

[texasharleygirl]

Sept 3, 2024 16:44:39 GMT -5 picksthemusic said:

I think they were happy to be out and about, but I think they would have had more fun if BIL joined in, but I also can see why he chose to stay home since he and XSIL don't hang out anymore unless they have to. 

In this case HE should have gone no matter what.  Whether they hang out or not, he should have gotten off his A$$ and went along for the kids so that they were safe and with a way to communicate should something happen.

As for being upset; I would probably be upset.  But then, I don't have kids, only grown stepchildren and a granddaughter.  However I would not be comfortable sending them off with a totally deaf person and not really be able to communicate with them if something was wrong, they were sick, etc. 

Oh, and I would totally upset with my brother in law and father in law for not using better judgement. 

[mofongo]

Sept 4, 2024 21:07:02 GMT -5 texasharleygirl said:

Sept 3, 2024 16:44:39 GMT -5 picksthemusic said:

I think they were happy to be out and about, but I think they would have had more fun if BIL joined in, but I also can see why he chose to stay home since he and XSIL don't hang out anymore unless they have to. 

In this case HE should have gone no matter what.  Whether they hang out or not, he should have gotten off his A$$ and went along for the kids so that they were safe and with a way to communicate should something happen.

As for being upset; I would probably be upset.  But then, I don't have kids, only grown stepchildren and a granddaughter.  However I would not be comfortable sending them off with a totally deaf person and not really be able to communicate with them if something was wrong, they were sick, etc. 

Oh, and I would totally upset with my brother in law and father in law for not using better judgement. 

It def would have been better if he went, but there was another follow up that BIL is also deaf.

[InBetweenDays]

Wait, are people saying that they don't feel the OP's kids were safe with the XSIL because she's deaf? Maybe they were uncomfortable because they didn't have an easy way of communicating with her (but with phones and pen/paper they obviously could), but assuming she has her license and is allowed to be driving her being deaf does not mean the kids weren't safe.

[mofongo]

Sept 4, 2024 21:48:03 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

Wait, are people saying that they don't feel the OP's kids were safe with the XSIL because she's deaf? Maybe they were uncomfortable because they didn't have an easy way of communicating with her (but with phones and pen/paper they obviously could), but assuming she has her license and is allowed to be driving her being deaf does not mean the kids weren't safe.

The concern is their inability to communicate well with her. It doesn’t sound like she sees them often, it doesn’t sound like they are close, and they are not fluent in sign language. I didn’t take anyone’s comments as thinking it was strictly b/c she’s deaf, but the inability to communicate effectively and quickly is a legitimate concern, imo.

[stemmie]

Sept 4, 2024 21:48:03 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

Wait, are people saying that they don't feel the OP's kids were safe with the XSIL because she's deaf? Maybe they were uncomfortable because they didn't have an easy way of communicating with her (but with phones and pen/paper they obviously could), but assuming she has her license and is allowed to be driving her being deaf does not mean the kids weren't safe.

I'm sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear. Both my cousins drive, and I have been a passenger in their cars a couple of times. (They live 300 miles away and we don't see them as much since our parents not all still with us) It's fine. My concern is not specifically that the XSIL is deaf, but that communicating with a person who is deaf while they're driving is not safe. 

If a kid needed a bathroom, say, while XSIL was driving, you couldn't really text her or slip her a piece of paper while she'd driving. The reverse isn't great either, when my aunt used to drive us sometimes and there was a baseball game on, my one cousin would demand that her mom give her the play-by-play. This was the oral-school cousin who lip read exclusively at the time. 

[Bad Dingo]

Sept 5, 2024 7:45:36 GMT -5 stemmie said:

Sept 4, 2024 21:48:03 GMT -5 InBetweenDays said:

Wait, are people saying that they don't feel the OP's kids were safe with the XSIL because she's deaf? Maybe they were uncomfortable because they didn't have an easy way of communicating with her (but with phones and pen/paper they obviously could), but assuming she has her license and is allowed to be driving her being deaf does not mean the kids weren't safe.

I'm sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear. Both my cousins drive, and I have been a passenger in their cars a couple of times. (They live 300 miles away and we don't see them as much since our parents not all still with us) It's fine. My concern is not specifically that the XSIL is deaf, but that communicating with a person who is deaf while they're driving is not safe. 

If a kid needed a bathroom, say, while XSIL was driving, you couldn't really text her or slip her a piece of paper while she'd driving. The reverse isn't great either, when my aunt used to drive us sometimes and there was a baseball game on, my one cousin would demand that her mom give her the play-by-play. This was the oral-school cousin who lip read exclusively at the time. 

It sounds like there are numerous hard of hearing family members, I'm sure that if the child didn't know how to sign that they needed to go to the bathroom they'd be able to figure out how to google it.  The kids lived with the XSIL for a year, she may feel closer to the kids than they feel to her and she's trying to rebuild the relationship.  Or she's a selfish asshole who was carting the kids all over and not caring if they were having fun.  Either way, I don't think her being deaf is a danger at all.  ASL isn't that hard to pick up and it'd probably make sense for the kids to learn some if they'll be spending any time w/their extended family.