Activity/Sports Expectation

[mae0111]

I can't remember if I asked this before, so please forgive me...

If your child is enrolled in an intensive activity or sport, what is your expectation regarding level of effort?

DD2 (11.5) plays club soccer, town rec soccer, and for her school team.  School team has not started yet, town rec has had one practice, and club has been back for a couple of weeks.  DD2 did almost nothing athletic all summer beyond swimming here and there, so by early August I started encouraging her to work out a bit.  Nothing crazy - 20-30 mins of activity of her choice, but with at least 10 mins of that being work with a soccer ball - foot skills, shooting, throw ins, etc.  She had been talking about playing on an indoor soccer team in the winter, so I told her that if she stuck to it and did something every day until daily soccer training started, I would do by best to field and coach an indoor team.

She has fought me almost daily.  Now that club has started, she is dragging her feet about practices.  At yesterday's practice, she wouldn't do the drills as instructed - cutting corners and taking the easy way out of drills that weren't that taxing (but excellent footwork drills).  Her footwork is... not awesome and she should have been working on it.  

All she wants to do is show up and play in the games.  She gets upset if other kids play more than her, and I've given up trying to explain that her attitude matters... that if she doesn't hustle, and she's just distracting and annoying and whining about drills, she will sit on the bench.  

I guess my question is... am I expecting too much?   I don't expect her to be the best, but I expect her to try.  I'm in to this club soccer team for over $3.5K from sept to June, including tuition, tournaments, uniform, and separate indoor leagues; not to mention the countless hours spent driving to practices, games, tournaments; weekends completely consumed by soccer, etc.  Then two rec teams in addition to this one (fall and spring rec) which also have practices and games (spring games can be up to an hour away). I'm HAPPY to do it if she's putting in the effort.  But she's not...

[sdlaura]

Once my kids are over ‘little kid’ age…so maybe like 7?…they are expected to participate at practice to keep doing the activity. Besides maybe the random off day when they’re not feeling like themselves for some reason. Like as kindergartners or first graders I will cut them a little slack on participation as long as they’re polite to their coaches.

We debate a lot on how much they should be practicing on their own outside of official practices. Like we are paying a lot for DD to do travel softball. She has softball practice 2-3 times a week as well as a hitting lesson and catching lesson. The hitting and catching work would be better reinforced if she was out doing tee work and drills on her own everyday. But she also has school work and another sport and I want her to have some downtime too.

DH and I debate this because he thinks we shouldn’t be paying so much (currently we spend like $500 a month for her softball dues and coaching in season), if she’s not going to practice more on her own. I think it’s normal for her to need some prompting on solo practice (she does do it if we remind her/tell her she needs to). I grew up playing the violin and it was normal for my parents to tell me it was time to practice - and they weren’t competing with an iPad or phone at the time.

DD just turned 12/is a young 7th grader, and while we think of her as being super mature as the oldest of our kids (and only girl), I’m not surprised she needs some prompting to go do more solo sports practice. That said, she does absolutely give it her all at official practices. She is also neurotypical though…I’m sure my answer would be different if she were dealing with ADHD or similar.

I guess in your case, if she isn’t disrupting other kids, and you can afford it, and she wants to keep doing it, I would probably just let natural consequences take their course - and let her decide on her own if she wants to put in more work so her coach plays her more.

[mae0111]

sdlaura, that makes sense. I don't mind prompting to practice. But I'm getting annoyed with reminding and getting yelled at for reminding, or reminding and being met with "whyyyyyyyyyyyyy do I have to" or "you don't make DD1 practice softball" (DD1 doesn't play club - only rec and school, because she won't commit to anything more than that), or just a total screaming fit about why she shouldn't be asked to do anything ever. That's about 60% of the time. The other 40% she happily goes out and practices.

Maybe I'm just worn out as I do 95% of the coordination/driving/logistics for all activities. Back to school is rough in our house (like most things in our house). I guess I'll just see how it all plays out.

[mommyatty]

I think I would tell her she’s clearly overcommitted herself and you’re pulling her from one of her teams. And if her bad attitude continues, you’ll pull her from more. I understand DS has a lot of issues because he’s neurodivergent but we don’t accept rudeness or disrespect. And rudeness and disrespect have consequences at home just like they would at school or out in the world. I would be willing to let a half-assed practice go now and again, but not screaming and disrespect.

Hell, I threatened to pull DD from club field hockey because she was refusing to be even a teeny bit social and sit on the same side of the gym with the other girls during water breaks. I told her if she didn’t want to be part of the team, then I wasn’t paying good money for her to be part of the team. She managed to actually talk to other humans after that.

[mae0111]

mommyatty , I agree that she's overcommitted. The club is where she'll get the most instruction and the best coaching. The school team is a requirement - school and league rule that the students must participate in an after school sport or activity.

Town rec... I've already decided that she's not going to any of those practices, and I've let the coach know. It would be her 3rd practice in a day, and it's too much. Coach 100% does not care, other than it means he's losing my help since his assistant keeps bailing on him and Coach is on crutches. There are 4 kids out of 12 that have never played soccer before - it's going to be a mess of a season, so that one is off the table except for games if she wants to go.

The disrespect from both kids is nearly constant, and it's killing me. That's a whole other thread.  But at least the overt disrespect is only happening at home. 

[waverly]

DD and DS both do club soccer. They are in public school so there are no school sport requirements.

Both get ready for practice mostly excited and do everything on their own. Both participate. Not participating isn’t really an option given by the coaches. It would also look bad in front of peers which they both don’t want.

Neither are doing anything else right now. They have plans for other sports in winter/ spring season.

DD fought me hard on Girl Scouts and band so after the school year ended we dropped both of those. I refuse to have her in an activity where I have to drag her to it. It’s not worth it to me to expend the energy.

[mommyatty]

mae0111- I would tell her if her attitude/behavior doesn’t improve, you’re dropping her from club and she can play rec or nothing at all outside of her school team, which is required and doesn’t take up extra time and money for you. She doesn’t need world class coaching, and if she’s going to be a brat about it, there’s an easy solution.

[sandandsea]

Both of mine do year round club/comp/travel soccer or whatever it’s called in your area. They both love games and enjoy practice but both have days where they aren’t excited about practice. They still go, participate and give effort but they are kids and have a long day at school, homework, and aren’t always 100% in practice. We expect them to attend, participate, be a good teammate, try, improve, and do what they’re supposed to do. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t be doing it at the level or teams that they are as they’d probably both get kicked off. We’ve also told them both that they are competing against their teammates and other kids for their positions and to be on the team and game time so they know if they don’t put in the effort they will lose the opportunity. Which is true for better or worse but it does motivate them. We also don’t let them skip unless they are legitimately sick or injured so they know whining won’t help.

Both of my boys love soccer and will go play on the backyard and love watching it on tv or in person. But they don’t want to go practice drills alone for hours. We got the dribble up ball and they rarely use it even. But they play multiple times a week in our yard, at recess and with their teams.

I think at some point she has to convince you she really wants it and that she can’t be disrespectful to her team by not trying and part of being a good teammate is always giving 100% as that’s what elevates the entire team’s level. Also do you think it’s just too much soccer? If rec is too easy and not challenging I can see how it’d be boring and may just be too much on top of comp.

[librarychica]

I pulled my kid from music lessons this year because I was tired of fighting with her, tired of the attitude, tired of the drama. Similarly she would only get interested near performances and practice otherwise was like pulling teeth.

Also tired of her music teacher’s flakiness (man still owes me lessons!) So we are done. We have instruments around here, she can noodle on. She has a school club that is much more reasonably priced and a sport she is working toward. She’s hardly lacking in enrichment.

So that’s my stance. I don’t expect perfection but I do expect an honest effort , age-appropriate respect for her commitments, and basic respect to me and any coach/instructors.

[sdlaura]

mae0111 yeah, screaming fits are a lot different from some age-appropriate complaining. I would expect something to change in that case as well.

[k3am]

DS wanted to do club soccer.. mainly do he could get extra time with his bestie that he doesn’t see often enough. He also refuses to touch a ball outside of practice, doesn’t give it his all (or his half, if that’s a thing), and isn’t committed, so he’s clearly cut out for rec at this point and not club. I’m not going to pay club prices for a kid who doesn’t have a passion for it. And from your description, it doesn’t sound like your daughter has a passion for it.

I agree with PP’s who said that she doesn’t need great coaching if it’s just a hobby. And it’s 100% okay for sports to be just a hobby!

[waverly]

Sept 5, 2024 17:33:59 GMT -5 mae0111 said:

sdlaura, that makes sense. I don't mind prompting to practice. But I'm getting annoyed with reminding and getting yelled at for reminding, or reminding and being met with "whyyyyyyyyyyyyy do I have to" or "you don't make DD1 practice softball" (DD1 doesn't play club - only rec and school, because she won't commit to anything more than that), or just a total screaming fit about why she shouldn't be asked to do anything ever. That's about 60% of the time. The other 40% she happily goes out and practices.

Maybe I'm just worn out as I do 95% of the coordination/driving/logistics for all activities. Back to school is rough in our house (like most things in our house). I guess I'll just see how it all plays out.

I don’t tell the kids to practice on their own at all. But a lot of times they would go to the park together because it’s something they have in common.

If I’m doing 95% of everything and people are fighting me on it then I would make it as easy as possible for me. We only have practice 2 nights a week. Both kids are the same night. DH does half the driving and cooks dinner, and I am still tired.

[rere]

We just saw sports a way for kids to be active, be with friends, and have some fun. I was not going to spend my time and money to fight with them over participating in sports. Neither was going to get any big scholarships or benefits other than personal. Both dd and ds decided in high school that the sport's requirements were more than they wanted. Fine. Then they had to get a job. We are not sitting around with our face in a screen, which was really my main objective of sports and clubs. Both of them were highly involved in various clubs in high school, which gave them involvement and activities.

So I guess my take was, I shouldn't be putting more effort in than they are willing.

[erbear]

Are the club coach? If not, stop going to practice. Let the coach handle it -- if she's not playing hard, they will bench her for games. And then when she whines, walk away -- natural consequences and that's a good lesson to learn now -- if you're being a brat, coaches don't want you on their teams. Coachability is important, more so than skill. Better to learn that now.

[wanderingback]

Sept 6, 2024 10:21:50 GMT -5 erbear said:

Are the club coach? If not, stop going to practice. Let the coach handle it -- if she's not playing hard, they will bench her for games. And then when she whines, walk away -- natural consequences and that's a good lesson to learn now -- if you're being a brat, coaches don't want you on their teams. Coachability is important, more so than skill. Better to learn that now.

Agree with this.
I wouldn’t make her train outside of practice or stay for practices.
If she complains after practice or games you can let her know that she doesn’t have to continue if it’s not fun. If she really isn’t participating in practice or games at all then I would tell her at end of season she won’t be returning.

[186momx]

DD doesn't practice gymnastics at home anymore but that us due to her feet touching the ceiling in a handstand now. She will stretch or condition but that is 100% on her.

I would ground her from soccer for a week as a reset to see if she really wants to play. Drop town rec 100% she doesn't need it added to her schedule. You have to keep school team and then after ger reset have a sit down with club coaches and have an expectation meeting.

I would drop the expectation that she added practice at home.

[dglvrk2]

Sept 6, 2024 7:44:57 GMT -5 rere said:

We just saw sports a way for kids to be active, be with friends, and have some fun. I was not going to spend my time and money to fight with them over participating in sports. Neither was going to get any big scholarships or benefits other than personal. Both dd and ds decided in high school that the sport's requirements were more than they wanted. Fine. Then they had to get a job. We are not sitting around with our face in a screen, which was really my main objective of sports and clubs. Both of them were highly involved in various clubs in high school, which gave them involvement and activities.

So I guess my take was, I shouldn't be putting more effort in than they are willing.

Very well said, rere!

For my family, practicing for a team sport at home seems challenging. I expect my daughters to be active for at least 30 minutes a day on non-school and/or non-game days: either bike riding, hiking or taking the dog for a walk. I do not expect them to practice or train for a team sport on their own. DD1 occasionally conditions for volleyball, but that's totally on her.



mae0111, I wonder if your daughter is a bit burnt out on soccer right now. It could be another way to look at it. Dropping the rec league seems like a good call. Could she take a week, or a couple of practices off and reevaluate?

[cjcouple]

I always just let my boys decide their own commitment levels and participation. At that age, if they were not putting in the minimum effort during practices, then we would find another sport or activity for the following season. It just wasn't a good fit.

If they complain about playing time? I'd simply say "playing time is earned. You want more playing time? work hard and improve your skill" but ultimately it was up to them. I'm not hounding them.

I always viewed sports as more of a social thing and that is was great to be physically active. If they thrived on the field/court...great.

If they didn't practice and didn't play? that's on them. I would not kept spending $$$ for AAU/Karate if they weren't working hard in practice at least.

DS1 was gifted athletically (agile, fast, coordinated) so he had lots of success and shining moments through his years as an athlete. In fact his commitment (not his skill) had given him many opportunities in high school. He was chosen as football team captain, chosen to represent his team on the local radio and in a rivalry breakfast on Thanksgiving. He was given a chance to be a starter in both football and basketball few weeks into the season (not right away) because he worked so hard. He kept his spot in both. He won an award as Behind the scenes team player who went to those who didn't necessarily make in the paper for impressive stats but who always played their hardest.

DS2 is not as fortunate but boy, he sure has the heart for it. He shows up and works. He's even going daily to the football practices and games a with a broken arm to learn and just be a part of the team. I think his effort will pay off one day as well.

Back in rec/youth sports, they just wanted to play and be with friends and that's all I expected of both of them. Do your best when you're there. Work outside of practice was gravy.

[mae0111]

dglvrk2, the season just started, so I don't think she's burnt out yet? She didn't train all summer. But maybe? I thought a good compromise was missing town rec practices... and I ran into her rec coach last night and he gleefully informed me that he changed the date/time of practice, so can we make it now?? Ugh...

So following up on this one, and need a bit more advice...

DD2 played well in her 2 games over the weekend. Tryouts for school started (sports are no-cut, "tryouts" are for placement only) then went to her club practice. I didn't stay for the whole practice - just the scrimmage part at the end, and she seemed focused and like she was putting in effort.

After practice, she started complaining about how her coach won't let her play the position that she wants to play (she likes defense, he puts her at midfield because she's fast and can cover a lot of ground, and the 3 starting defenders are really good, solid defenders). I suggested that she have a quiet conversation with him - no. OK, just keep your head down and keep working hard. Assistant coach knows you like defense - he'll get you in when he can.

Then the floodgates opened - no one likes her, they think she's "weird", no one will partner with her for drills, she winds up with the coach or sometimes kids will let her join a group of 3. It didn't help that her 3 friends on the team didn't go to practice last night, so she felt a little alone.

But the "weird" thing broke my heart. She is very much NOT a mean girl, and most of the other kids on the team are. She doesn't gossip. She doesn't make fun of anyone. She is the first one to pick someone up if they're hurt or upset. She's very kind. But she's not neurotypical and she's different. I've seen her stimming on the field - if she makes a great play, she will flap her hands. She does things that are annoying during drills because she's trying to make the other kids laugh and like her.

I don't really know how to counsel her about this. Adults see her qualities, and she has a few nice groups of unicorn friends that love and accept her. Some are on the soccer team with her, but they're sporadic participants. I've offered that she can quit, move to a different club, finish out the season and then decide... I just don't know what do to do help her at this point.

[mommyatty]

mae0111- oh no. I have no advice other than that totally sucks. I’m sorry.

[waverly]

mae0111 , Unfortunately this is the age where mean girls come into play and "popularity". A lot of the mean girls have no perspective. I try to instill that in DD, that hey this person has ADHD or this person is younger, so the mean girls should not be talking bad about them, and I don't want to hear that DD is a part of it.

Overall, the girls have been great for DD. There are a couple of girls that now think they are popular, but otherwise it's been good. On DS's team, it has always been extremely disorganized. But he hasn't reported anything negative or bullying.

I guess you could email the coach about the position, and the other girls. But at a certain age, coach is going to put them in the position that they are best at and if she is best at midfield that will probably happen.

I would do a lot to get my child away from bullying and negative behavior though, so if I felt that would continue, I think I would switch teams or quit club.

I got DD away from her "bully" and it has helped so so much.  I am so glad that I did it.  Although, their only interaction was the bus, but I have now taken that interaction out of the equation so they both have moved on.  

[mae0111]

waverly, thank you... I didn't plan to intervene with the coach regarding the position - she needs to learn to advocate for herself and/or earn her spot. I had emailed about playing time before because there had been some behavioral issues on the sidelines with DD2 (just goofing around, nothing mean) so I wanted to keep in contact with him about that stuff.

The "mean girl" stuff... there's one kid that is particularly nasty to DD2, I've witnessed it and raised it with the coach a few times. But she's one of the best players on the team, so he will keep playing her and say nothing more than general "be nice to each other". But the other kids aren't really overtly mean? They just... don't want to bother with her. I think?

I want her to be herself, but if she doesn't tone it down a little, she'll have a lonely season. Her BFF is on the team, but probably won't attend any more practices this season because they conflict with her elite basketball team, and basketball is her priority.

Ugh. It's hard. I can't fault some of the kids for not wanting to work with her. She said she partnered up with a kid yesterday who is not a good player AND not a nice kid, and that kid made it very clear to DD2 that she was not pleased with the arrangement. But no one wanted to partner with the other kid either, so they wound up together.

I wish the coaches would be a little more observant and maybe assign partners? But she has to do her part as well. I don't know how to explain that to her.

[waverly]

mae0111 , I understand. I guess there is a part of me that thinks that exclusion is also bullying. And then if she gets paired with someone that makes clear their displeasure, then I am not super happy about that either. They are kids so it will probably happen, but I in the category of act professional.  Say hi, do the drills, keep it moving if they don't like the person, they can keep that to themselves. 

I end up in circles on the "do their part as well" with DS. I go from thinking DS has no friends and no one ever invites him to do anything ever to OK he has good friends at school and a good lunch table, and yes he does occasionally get invites. He has a friend party every year, and gets invited to 2 friends birthday parties and a Halloween party, and gets invited to go to the park. And he is an introvert that just wants to rest and doesn't want to go to McDonalds with 200 middle schoolers. But then he sits home every Friday and Saturday playing video games or watching TV perfectly happy as an introvert, and then I go right back around the circle again of why isn't he hanging out with friends. I don't know how to stop, but I am planning to ask my therapist about it. I'm seeing her short term, so I will be hitting her with all my issues from the last 10 years before I end the sessions lol.

[mae0111]

waverly, I hear everything you're saying. I used to be so worried about DD1 at her old school. She had ZERO friends in her grade at one point... but she had a nice group of kids that she sat with at lunch, groups that she did clubs with, a nice group on the school basketball team. Unless the kids were targeting her, I stopped trying to engineer anything with the kids. At her new school, she has probably 3 friends, luckily they all have lunch together. She's happy enough, she's joining more things that I thought she would, so I'm calling it a win.

DD2 has always been well-liked, probably because she's so silly. There would always be 1-2 kids that weren't nice to her, and she either avoided them completely because they were trouble, or eventually they'd get to know her and become friendly. But they're getting older, more mature, and the social hierarchy is starting to emerge. She has no interest in being a 'popular' kid. When I say "do her part" - I mean she can't be obnoxious at practice. If they're in a small group practicing gentle passes and she keeps booting the ball and making people chase it, that's obnoxious and no one will want to partner with her. It doesn't occur to her that it's annoying - she thinks it's funny... and that's where I have to help her I think.

[186momx]

mae0111, if you can get your DD to talk to the coaches on a 1-1 setting do it. The two things we have found is that the coaches listen to DD more when she brings them the problem or points out how she feels isolated and it gives her more say so in her gymnastics. The kids in her 4/5 group have been pretty rotten to her this summer and most of the time it doesn't bother DD but a couple times it has really hurt and she has reported it after the fact. Such as stretching at the end and DD is the first to hit the floor and the rest of the girls come over and choose to huddle up on the opposite side is one example where DD felt so alone. What pisses me off as a parent is to watch DD be a great teammate and help the rest of the girls at meets, during practice, talking them down the emotional meltdowns but when DD needs a shoulder they won't reciprocate.

[erbear]

DD1 is having such a tough time. I mentioned earlier that her HS team is awful. They won today but she's so frustrated with how she's playing. Her coach is moving her around all the time -- she played 6 different positions today -- and the coach keeps yelling at her in the middle of the game because she's in the wrong position. I feel so bad for her...she used to love HS soccer and it's just not looking like that much fun this year.

[mae0111]

erbear - that’s so hard to move like that in a single game. When I played basketball in high school I had to play 4 different positions and it kind of sucked - you’re trying to concentrate on the game and your opponent, but also where you’re expected to be on the floor/pitch. Can she talk to her coach? Sounds like he’s leaning hard on her to carry the team.

Dd2’s BFF went to club soccer practice tonight, and was crying when she got into DH’s car for the carpool. The same kids that had been mean to DD2 went after her BFF, who is the sweetest kid there is. Her mom went scorched earth - texted the coach and told him to fix it or she’s pulling her DD2. She’s a top player - a wall of a defender - so the coach kind of fell all over himself saying he would fix it. I was thinking DD2 could manage the personalities herself, but I think I’m going to talk to the coach too.

[mommyatty]

mae0111- it’s so hard to know when you’re overreacting to a situation and when to step in. I think you just got a really strong signal that you would not be out of line in stepping in. There’s safety in numbers for sure.