For Librarians

[fiddles]

Or anyone that would know.

I've always wondered how e books work at the library.  I know there are times I'm almost done with the book but it's ready to be returned so I turn off wifi on my kindle so the book doesn't automatically go back to the library.

How does that work?  Does the next person not get the book until I reconnect to wifi and return the book?

[TR]

I shouldn't even be answering because I don't use ebooks lol BUT I'm gonna. From what I've read on here, the next person in line would still get access when you do this.

[wildrice]

Yes, they do. It "goes back to the library" even though you still have it on your Kindle.

I do this ALL THE TIME and have never received a past due notice or anything about it.

[fernweh]

How does this work though? If it still goes to the next person in line, why can’t multiple people just check it out at the same time to begin with?

[sadie]

Libraries pay a subscription fee for e-materials. These subscriptions are often pay by usage, meaning, every time a particular is taken out, the library pays x amount. This is much like the purchasing physical copies of books; libraries only purchase x number of a given title. These subscriptions levels may also set limits on the number of e-resources a patron can check out per month. These e-material subscriptions are $$ and are changing often for these companies to maximize profits. (I am a library board trustee that sits on our finance committee.]

[sadie]

Also, libraries don't own ebooks like they do paper copies; ebook licenses usually expire after a few years, making the libraries have to repurchase the licenses.

It's often cheaper as a whole to purchase a subscription service (think resources on hoopla or libby) than purchasing licenses for individual ebooks. Also, this way, libraries have accesses to a much broader range of e-resources than if they purchase individually.

[fiddles]

Oct 18, 2024 14:02:45 GMT -5 fernweh said:

How does this work though? If it still goes to the next person in line, why can’t multiple people just check it out at the same time to begin with?

This is what I've been thinking about for awhile. 

[hermione]

Oct 18, 2024 14:17:59 GMT -5 sadie said:

Also, libraries don't own ebooks like they do paper copies; ebook licenses usually expire after a few years, making the libraries have to repurchase the licenses.

It's often cheaper as a whole to purchase a subscription service (think resources on hoopla or libby) than purchasing licenses for individual ebooks. Also, this way, libraries have accesses to a much broader range of e-resources than if they purchase individually.

I still have to buy ebooks. Overdrive is the vendor that sells them to me. We pay an annual platform fee, yes. But then we pay for each ebook. Ebooks are sold either as metered access or one copy/one user. MA usually means you have the book for 12 months, 24 months or 26 check outs (depending on the publisher). OC/OU means you own the book until you weed it. Regardless of this one person can read the book at a time. That’s why libraries still have to buy multiple copies of ebooks. Librarians control the content of their ebook overdrive collections.

On hoopla, libraries pay so everyone can access the same book at the same time. But, we have no control over the content. Hoopla either has a book or doesn’t. Libraries can set limits but it’s difficult to change without angering patrons. So at my library, patrons get 7 checkouts per month. A check cost is from $0.79 to $4.99 depending on the item. $4.99 is the highest price point and libraries can choose not to spend more than $x on any given item. This means we cannot be sure what our monthly hoopla bill will be. It has doubled in the last 5 years as more and more people turn to econtent.

[sadie]

Oct 18, 2024 15:25:42 GMT -5 hermione said:

Oct 18, 2024 14:17:59 GMT -5 sadie said:

Also, libraries don't own ebooks like they do paper copies; ebook licenses usually expire after a few years, making the libraries have to repurchase the licenses.

It's often cheaper as a whole to purchase a subscription service (think resources on hoopla or libby) than purchasing licenses for individual ebooks. Also, this way, libraries have accesses to a much broader range of e-resources than if they purchase individually.

I still have to buy ebooks. Overdrive is the vendor that sells them to me. We pay an annual platform fee, yes. But then we pay for each ebook. Ebooks are sold either as metered access or one copy/one user. MA usually means you have the book for 12 months, 24 months or 26 check outs (depending on the publisher). OC/OU means you own the book until you weed it. Regardless of this one person can read the book at a time. That’s why libraries still have to buy multiple copies of ebooks. Librarians control the content of their ebook overdrive collections.

On hoopla, libraries pay so everyone can access the same book at the same time. But, we have no control over the content. Hoopla either has a book or doesn’t. Libraries can set limits but it’s difficult to change without angering patrons. So at my library, patrons get 7 checkouts per month. A check cost is from $0.79 to $4.99 depending on the item. $4.99 is the highest price point and libraries can choose not to spend more than $x on any given item. This means we cannot be sure what our monthly hoopla bill will be. It has doubled in the last 5 years as more and more people turn to econtent.

I appreciate the addional insight. We've lately been talking about the staggering rise in pricing lately.

[livinitup]

My DD returned a library book late last month and I was pleasantly surprised that our library system no longer imposes late fees.

These kids today have no idea how easy that have it.

[Velar Fricative]

Oct 18, 2024 14:02:45 GMT -5 fernweh said:

How does this work though? If it still goes to the next person in line, why can’t multiple people just check it out at the same time to begin with?

Because of publisher restrictions, as hermione elaborated on better than I will lol. Libraries are charged an arm and a leg for ebooks and basically have to buy them like print books from vendors/publishers. But unlike print books which go lost/unreturned or get grubby after decent usage and therefore naturally get replaced with more purchases, ebooks don’t go lost or get grubby so vendors and publishers have to make their money somehow (publishers are just taking things too far, IMO).

[kitty]

So the library and the vendor basically can’t tell that you still have it if you aren’t on wifi, correct? Or can the vendor somehow tell?

[SwimDeep]

Oct 18, 2024 22:58:16 GMT -5 kitty said:

So the library and the vendor basically can’t tell that you still have it if you aren’t on wifi, correct? Or can the vendor somehow tell?

So this sounds more like a networking question to me rather than something the library does or doesn't track. Based on my layman's understanding of networks and the internet, no. They would not be able to tell if you turn off the wifi. But they would know that you downloaded the book and then disconnected. They would not be able to know how long you kept the book until you turned the wifi back on, which would automatically connect to return the loan.
(Side note: there are ways to track electronics not connected to wifi. Your phone/kindle/laptop/smart TV/fridge/whatever is never 'truly' offline. They still send/receive pings. yaycapitalismlolfml 🥴)

Based on my personal experience, I check out an ebook, realize it's going to take me way more than three weeks to finish, and turn on airplane mode. At the three week mark, I still get a notice from my library that the book has been returned. So as soon as I turn wifi back on, my rental is gone. Now, I know there is a convo that happens between my kindle and the library server that notes when my kindle comes back online and returns the book. That convo would include date and time. It's certainly possible that some capitalist jerk could find a way to monetize this and charge late fees based on when the book was checked out vs when it was returned. BUT it would be expensive as fuck to keep track of that much data. Libraries don't have that kind of money. Publishers might... but ultimately it wouldn't be profitable. Just petty.

The vendor 'could' track this. But the return would have to be significant enough to outweigh the costs. And the costs would be billions while the returns are miniscule.

And that's my soapbox for the day.

[mccallister84]

Ok this is eye opening for me as an avid e book reader. I knew that if you turned on airplane mode the book wouldn’t be returned. I do all my reading on my phone so moot point for me. I had no idea though that even if it wasn’t returned it would still go to the next person on the list. Mind blown.

So my question is now is that if the book is returned early, the next person on the list gets it earlier, correct? This has been my assumption since I’ve gotten books earlier than I anticipated, I’m assuming from early returns. If it works one way (early return means the next person gets it earlier) why does it not work the opposite way (late return means the next person gets it late)? I mean I’m glad it doesn’t, but I would expect it to, since that’s exactly what happens with a physical book. And from a $$$ side you would think that would encourage/force libraries to buy more “copies.”

[hermione]

Oct 19, 2024 16:53:44 GMT -5 mccallister84 said:

Ok this is eye opening for me as an avid e book reader. I knew that if you turned on airplane mode the book wouldn’t be returned. I do all my reading on my phone so moot point for me. I had no idea though that even if it wasn’t returned it would still go to the next person on the list. Mind blown.

So my question is now is that if the book is returned early, the next person on the list gets it earlier, correct? This has been my assumption since I’ve gotten books earlier than I anticipated, I’m assuming from early returns. If it works one way (early return means the next person gets it earlier) why does it not work the opposite way (late return means the next person gets it late)? I mean I’m glad it doesn’t, but I would expect it to, since that’s exactly what happens with a physical book. And from a $$$ side you would think that would encourage/force libraries to buy more “copies.”

Yes, if you return early, it goes to the next person early. Just like if you decline a hold but stay on the list, it's offered to the next person. These are the reasons why people will all of a suddenly get 6 holds at once and be mad.