Where can my aggressive dog meet other dogs?

[steph96]

I doubt anyone remembers, but my dog has fear aggression issues. This was discovered when she was in a basic obedience class. They recommended that we enroll her in a special seminar for aggressive dogs. Part of the training is encountering other dogs. I'm really having issues on that part. She isn't allowed back in training at that facility until she works out her issues and completes a test. I also want her to be able to get along with the neighbor dogs.

Where can my dog meet other dogs? People sort of freak out when you mention that your dog is working on her aggression or she starts making weird barking/yipping noises to try to scare them off. Nobody I know wants to volunteer their dog for it. Anyone have any ideas or deal with this personally?

[Pilsy]

I don't have any pets, so this may be no help, but how about asking the vet? Or putting it back on the obedience school? At work, I'm told to offer solutions to problems I identify. Try this on the instructor.

Good luck!

[hike]

How is your dog aggressive? Will you do the training first and they are asking for volunteer dogs?

[Deleted]

Find a different trainer. Ours wasn't quite a behaviorist but she was very good with working with aggressive dogs, training them to at least be able to encounter other dogs without incident, etc. I found our trainer by asking someone very involved with rescues.

[steph96]

Oct 10, 2012 20:16:02 GMT -5 hike said:

How is your dog aggressive? Will you do the training first and they are asking for volunteer dogs?

She just puts on a show to try to scare other dogs away. The trainers said she would likely never attack unless the other dog started it. She did the training seminar. They taught us how to identify her aggression and break her attention. She is supposed to encounter enough dogs to where she doesn't start showing aggression. It is pretty much teaching her to be submissive and avoid the situations.

They said she was welcome to stand in the parking lot after classes ended and the dogs were leaving. I tried it once and it didn't work. Everyone avoided us.

[pamela]

Our trainer that we sadly left behind in Texas was working with our boxer on is by using his own very well trained dog. We were making really good progress when we had to move away. The first part was just getting his dog to sit there while he walked ours in circles around her. They slowly worked up to where he could have her running in a pack with a few of his.

Unfortunately, without continued exposure, she's reverted. :-(

[sallybrown]

We had this issue with our dog. She came from a shelter and I honestly think that was her introduction to other dogs.

We started with walking her, and when we encountered other dogs we distracted her with treats. Eventually our neighbors (we live in an area full of dogs) got to know us and her story and we would give them treats to give her so she began to associate other dogs with treats.

When she gets aggressive, we also will give her a squirt with a spray bottle. Works like a charm.

As far as meeting other dogs, we worked with a trainer who brought his dog over. Also family members and friends with dogs helped. We have a dog park close by and we took her there, too. She's small and a squirt of water helped with any aggression so I don't know if your dog is up to that.

Some doggy daycares near us work with unsocialized dogs - is that an option? I also looked into feisty fido classes. Good luck, it's frustrating! If I had a nickel for every time someone suggested watching Cesar Milan I would be rich. :/

[LoveTrains]

Can you go for long walks through your neighborhood? I always see dogs while I am out walking mine.

[minniebee]

We worked with a local pit bull/Rottweiler rescue that offers classes and training for this issue. We didn't adopt our dog from them, but they allowed us to participate as long as we made a donation to the rescue. It's free for dogs adopted through their rescue. Our dog happens to be a rott mix, but they allow all breeds in the training program.

In the beginning, distraction seemed to be the biggest help. If we were out walking and spotted another dog, we would distract our dog by giving a treat, asking him to sit and praising him when he did, etc. Eventually, he learned that good things happened when he saw other dogs. He was never aggressive with strange people, just strange dogs.

The rescue we worked with allowed us to expose our dog to some of the "ambassador" dogs that the trainers had worked with for a long time. That helped a ton too.

Our dog never attacked another dog, but he was clearly reactive and nervous around new dogs.

[missladytay]

We had an aggressive (small) dog. Slap a muzzle on him and take him to the dog park or a play session that you find on meetup. Muzzle is key at first, and explain that it's for everyone's protection. Eventually hopefully you won't need it. Better a muzzle than dead, I say.

[steph96]

For the record, the behaviorists were trained professionals. It was just a one day class to teach us how to work on it since it is something that takes months or years to correct.

[steph96]

I have thought about trying walks in our neighborhood, but she seems on edge if it is a semi familiar place. Her new vet actually seems interested in helping out her aggression so we might ask her for new trainer/behaviorist recommendations. The last place was sort of snobby....

So nobody would judge me if I took my dog to a dog park? As long as everyone is on leashes it is easy to control the situation. Should my FI and I go together and approach people to explain the issue and ask if we can borrow a couple minutes of their time?

[dexteroni]

If your dog isn't even allowed into the training facility, it sounds like you need more professional work before experimenting on the public. If you approached me at the dog park there is no way in hell I would let my dogs be your dog's test case. Even with a muzzle, they can still lunge and growl and show intent to kick some ass, and I would never stand there and let your dog possibly instill fear in my dogs that they don't currently have. Find a trainer or behaviorist who is willing to work with your dog. Good luck!

[LoveTrains]

Going to a dog park sounds like a disaster. Also my dog is nasty towards other dogs when leashed - but totally fine off leash. This is actually common - the dog can feel constrained or almost backed into a corner while on leash.

[Deleted]

Oct 11, 2012 6:32:25 GMT -5 LoveTrains said:

Going to a dog park sounds like a disaster. Also my dog is nasty towards other dogs when leashed - but totally fine off leash. This is actually common - the dog can feel constrained or almost backed into a corner while on leash.

Ditto this. Our lab is leash aggressive but perfectly fine off leash. We take him to dog parks and doggie daycare with no issues, but when walking him on a leash I clearly tell people "he's not nice." He IS nice and just wants to play, but he is rough, so it's easier to just say he's not nice. He did fine at training though, didn't even bat an eye at the other dogs.

So yeah I think going to a dog park would be a disaster. Like I said, I'd find a different trainer. Ours was an 8 week training session and she specialized in dogs with aggression issues - it was basically all rescue dogs. I would see if you could find something like that. Yes it's going to take time but it will be easier if you have someone you can ask throughout the process etc.

[ssmjlm]

So the training facility kicked you out, but offered no resources for trainers/behaviorists that could help? I would be pretty ticked. I can't imagine you're the first owner to have a dog with agression issues.

I would ask your vet office for recommendations or even friends.

[Deleted]

I don't have much advice for changing the aggression - my fluffy dog has a similar issue, he flips if he sees another dog (especially on leash, but doesn't like to see new dogs even when he's off leash in our backyard). We don't really go anywhere else that he's off leash since our dog park isn't really convenient.

I've adopted avoidance as my strategy - we don't go around other dogs. I do walk my dogs daily but I do it after dark so we don't run into many dogs - usually we don't run into any at all. My neighborhood is full of dogs so if we walk in daylight it turns into a mess quickly. I tried for probably 3 years after adopting him to walk around other dogs anyway but he was always an asshole when we saw another dog and it was difficult to wrangle him and my other dog (who is not aggressive but would join in on the fun anyway if he's worked up). I don't really think my neighbors inside their houses or out walking their dogs want to deal with my crazy barking dog, you know?

I don't take him to dog events or Petco or anywhere else that he might run into dogs. So far we've been ok at the vet. My dog is just anxious and he's a big teddy bear in general but he just doesn't like other dogs, I think he feels threatened. I wish I had the time, money, and patience it would take to hire a good trainer and fix the issue, but I don't mind walking at night (we live in a safe neighborhood) and he gets plenty of attention and exercise so I haven't been able to justify the work it would take to make him "better" when he's fine now. It is a pain and annoying, though.

Also, he does ok with friends' dogs as long as we're on top of him when they meet. He usually is a bit defensive until he gets to know the other dog and then he'll be fine. There is 1 dog at my aunt's house that he just doesn't like, but that dog is pretty dominant and my dog doesn't like to be dominated. They tolerate each other as long as they don't get in each others' way. I just keep an eye on them both whenver we see them and they are fine.

[chessie]

Need to find an instructor that will deal with aggressive dogs, start with that. I went through a few, some trainers won't work with them at all. Plus its not as easy as meeting other dogs since you need the skills how to go about that, and sometimes meds to properly do this. I would not recommend bringing your dog to the park without going through training with a specialty training, you, someone else, or another dog will get violently hurt. Unfortunately I was not able to successfully integrate my older dog, with dogs or outside people, and our trainer helped us figure this out and use coping skills how to avoid the two all together. We tried for years, and then we learned how to avoid situations. Find a behaviorist in your area, start there.

[chessie]

Oct 10, 2012 23:52:57 GMT -5 steph96 said:

I have thought about trying walks in our neighborhood, but she seems on edge if it is a semi familiar place. Her new vet actually seems interested in helping out her aggression so we might ask her for new trainer/behaviorist recommendations. The last place was sort of snobby....

So nobody would judge me if I took my dog to a dog park? As long as everyone is on leashes it is easy to control the situation. Should my FI and I go together and approach people to explain the issue and ask if we can borrow a couple minutes of their time?

I wouldnt do this. Dog park most of the dogs are off leash. I would work with walking your dog in a park not around the dog park, maybe outside the dog park or even your neighborhood.

[LoveTrains]

Sorry I was on for my phone for my other posts, which is why I didn't type out a long response.

The issue is that you have a fearful dog, not necessarily an aggressive dog. When your dog gets fearful and anxious, she lashes out with aggression as a protective measure.

A book like this:
www.amazon.com/Click-Calm-Healing-Aggressive-Clicker/dp/1890948209

Or this:
www.amazon.com/Cautious-Canine-How-Conquer-Their-Fears/dp/1891767003/ref=pd_sim_b_6

Could be really helpful. What you need to do is learn how to desensitize your dog to the things that make it fearful. A great way to do this is through clicker training and positive reinforcement. This is something that can take a lot of time and effort, but the results can be amazing.

I would start by getting a clicker and just teaching your dog that clicker = treats. It is very important that if you do use a clicker, you work on the timing of the click. the click indicates that the dog has done the correct action or thing that you want, and that it is going to be rewarded. You have to do the click at the start of the action. This is how professional trainers train dolphins, seals, elephants, etc. It is a proven tool for positive reinforcement, which is what you need to make your dog confident and lessen its fear-based anxiety and aggression.

Once your dog knows that clicker = good, you can try taking it somewhere that it might see dogs - but kind of far away. The second your dog notices another dog, ask it to sit, give it a click, and give it a treat. You have to start teaching your dog that other dogs = good, not other dogs = scary.

In any case, I would look for a behaviorist that does work one-on-one with fearful dogs.

[dexteroni]

Oh - yeah, you can't take him into a true off-leash dog park on a leash. Most don't allow it, and even if you do it anyway, mixing leashed and unleashed dogs is never a good idea even with non-aggressive dogs. I figured you meant a regular park that allowed dogs.

[steph96]

Thanks for all the great advice! I really do think we need a new trainer. The more I think about their methods, the more I don't feel like it will work. I want my dog to associate other dogs with good things such as treats and love. I don't want her to think she will get negative corrections (such as spray bottles) anytime she is around another dog.

I sort of think the previous training facility overreacted a little bit by not allowing her back in classes. I guess that is their way to get you to pay $500 for a 5 hour class and then get personal training that would cost over $6000..... My dog did fine in her class as long as this one aggressive dog wasn't around.

I don't think it is aggression as much as it is her not knowing how to socialize. Don't all dogs get a little defensive/aggressive when a super aggressive dog is around? I know it's not something to mess around with, but I don't think it is as bad as they say.

[Deleted]

Oct 11, 2012 12:25:07 GMT -5 steph96 said:

Thanks for all the great advice! I really do think we need a new trainer. The more I think about their methods, the more I don't feel like it will work. I want my dog to associate other dogs with good things such as treats and love. I don't want her to think she will get negative corrections (such as spray bottles) anytime she is around another dog.

I sort of think the previous training facility overreacted a little bit by not allowing her back in classes. I guess that is their way to get you to pay $500 for a 5 hour class and then get personal training that would cost over $6000..... My dog did fine in her class as long as this one aggressive dog wasn't around.

I don't think it is aggression as much as it is her not knowing how to socialize. Don't all dogs get a little defensive/aggressive when a super aggressive dog is around? I know it's not something to mess around with, but I don't think it is as bad as they say.

Wait, I'm sorry, 500 for a 5 hour class?!?!? holy crap. We paid 150 for an 8 week course. That included the leash lol.

The key is that different methods will work for different dogs. No one thing is going to be universal so you want someone who will be able to say "try this" and then you can come back in a week or two and say "that didnt work" and they can say "here is another idea."

[rosiedozie]

This is not somehjng that you should try and tackle on your own. Get a behaviorist (not a trainer) to help you ease into it safely and slowly.

And a huge side eye to the person that said you should take her to a dog par with a muzzle. That's idiotic.

[LoveTrains]

That is some highway robbery. My PERSONAL behaviorist, who came to my house, charges $75 for an hour session.

[womet]

You've gotten some great advice so far. I understand how you feel. Our dog was the same way. I actually enrolled him in agility classes to help build his confidence and listening skills. We would always sit on the other side of the facility from our classmates so that M could pay attention to me and not be distracted by the other dogs. I hated being so isolated but it worked for us. I would put down a carpet square next to my chair, and he would sit on that square throughout the entire class, unless we were running the course. He went from being the most obnoxious dog in class to the most well behaved dog. We were eventually able to move closer to our dog friends.

We did take him to dog parks at first, but we never went inside. This was to condition him to being around other dogs without the worry of him being too aggressive with the other dogs.

My trainer explained his behavior to me once like this. When you go to meet someone, you stick out your hand to shake their hand. And dogs have a similar behavior. Well instead of going to "shake hands" with someone new, M would give them the middle finger. So of course, that put the other dog on the defensive. And then M got more defensive. And it could easily escalate.

You'd think that he's some mean horrible dog, but he's not. He loves going to daycare. And he's gotten to the point where he's better about meeting other dogs. But I'll be honest with you, it's been a long process. And I could not have continued without my 1000% supportive trainer.