My TIP

[partiallysunny]

My H and I have been going through a rough time (duh). After the kid was born, we were in survival mode, I guess. Just trying to get as much sleep as possible and doing the bare minimum in housework. In January (LO was 8/9 months), things finally started to feel normal.

And I realized I was sad and lonely. My marriage is lacking intimacy and communication. After trying to be more affectionate and trying to start conversations (about things I knew he was interested in) and only getting monosyllable answers and rejection, I ultimately had a very long talk with H.

We discussed some major issues we were having and H made some big promises. We started a weekly movie night and made some general changes so we could spend more time together.

Now it's May and nothing has changed. We had another long talk this weekend. He admitted he was also unhappy when I asked and ended that with "we both know what we need to work on. We will work on it and it will get better." I was very confused. I had no idea he was even unhappy until a momment ago when I asked and he never explained why he was unhappy. I had been the only one jabbering away about how unhappy I was. He actually had been acting like I was over reacting and saying "things can't be like they were when we first met" which is why I asked if he was happy. I asked why he was unhappy and he said "It's just a phase. I will get over it in a couple months like I did before". I was even more confused. He explained it was like "last time when we got married". He never explained the inconsistencies or what he was unhappy about.

So "last time" was the time from our engagement till after we got married and went to marriage counseling (thanks to TIP pushing me).

Because of counseling, I know he was depressed at the time of our engagement and thinking he wasn’t worthy of me, which was why he was pushing me away. Because of his comparison, I *think* he is probably depressed now.

I know the kid was a major shock for him. He has wanted children for years, but I wasn’t ready. When I was finally ready, he was so excited. But I think he had unrealistic expectations when it comes to children and fatherhood. He admitted to me he didn't realize how hard it was going to be (at a different time).

I'm not sure what I'm looking for, writing this. Maybe just to get it out in the open so I don't feel like I'm beating around the bush all the time. When we were discussing everything, I asked if he should see his doctor. He said no and I let it go. Now that I have had time to think about it, I really think he should. I am going to talk to him more about seeing his doctor and going to therapy and my concerns about depression sometime this week. I'm still wrapping my head around it and hoping I can handle it. I'm not so great with handling depression, given my family history.

[beebeeeater]

I'm sorry PS. That must have been hard to hear, though I'm sure you're not surprised - if you weren't happy, it stands to reason that he wasn't either. I have to think more about this before I offer anything more constructive than a hug. So in the meantime, ((hugs)).

[Deleted]

I'm so sorry, PS. I really don't know what to say here. (I'll give you a minute to expire and revive yourself from the shock of my silence.)

What does do you mean when you say he wasn't prepared for fatherhood?

And are you saying he identifies a rough patch that you didn't know was one?

[Muddled]

It sounds like you have defined the problem. You know as well as anyone that he has got to get himself out of this and, as much as you want to help him, there's not much you can do. The only advice I have is to hold him to his promises. Yes, he needs to go to the doctor. Don't let him get away with shirking his responsibilities and don't let him avoid you and your questions. Your questions will frustrate him because he probably doesn't know the answers, but those are the things he'll need to work on.

Big hugs, PS.

[pedanticwench]

When you went through counseling the first time, was there a realization (on his part) that he has what seems like significantly low self-esteem?

First he feels "unworthy" of you and now he feels as if he wasn't prepared for fatherhood?

There is a pattern here.

[bowies]

I'm not surprised he's unhappy too. Is he the type that likes to fake-it-til-you-make-it? As in, does he believe that in saying things are OK, that means they will be OK? That could explain his earlier denials.

A baby is a huge life change, and life changes affect everyone differently. The fact that you're still feeling it at 1 year is understandable, but I agree that you two need to work together in finding yourselves some relief. If you continue to ignore the elephant in the room, eventually it'll take a big shit everywhere. A family counselor could be very beneficial here, in addition to getting him re-evaluated for depression. You two may have the desire in place to make changes, but the roadmap might need some tweaking from an outside source. It could be more involved than just a movie night, yanno? Maybe that's not the ideal way for you two to connect.

[wrathofkuus]

If you take away the history of depression, it all sounds pretty standard to me for a long-term relationship. You're super lovey for a while, then you're comfortable, then you kind of grow apart and aren't as good a match as you were before, and then you wait it out a few months or so until you grow into people who like each other more, and the whole cycle starts again.

[partiallysunny]

May 21, 2012 15:15:14 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

I'm so sorry, PS. I really don't know what to say here. (I'll give you a minute to expire and revive yourself from the shock of my silence.)

What does do you mean when you say he wasn't prepared for fatherhood? Mostly from his own comments. I think he pictured himself watching tv while a kid sat quietly and played tonka trucks or a baby sitting qietly in a swing while he surfed the internet. I know he didn't think it would as hard as it is.

And are you saying he identifies a rough patch that you didn't know was one? I was confused over the change of direction in the conversation (to a you-and-me issue to a it's-all-me issue)and the comparision of the past rough spot and this one. Before he mentioned it, I don't think I would have ever made the connection, but now that he has I see how is behavior is similar.

[partiallysunny]

May 21, 2012 15:19:29 GMT -5 pedanticwench said:

When you went through counseling the first time, was there a realization (on his part) that he has what seems like significantly low self-esteem?

First he feels "unworthy" of you and now he feels as if he wasn't prepared for fatherhood?

There is a pattern here.

His self-esteem was discussed, yes. And I never thought about it in terms of children, until I was writing this out. It was an "of course, that makes sense" momment.

[Deleted]

wait, he's saying this is him or this is you? I'm confused.

[partiallysunny]

May 21, 2012 15:23:16 GMT -5 bowies said:

I'm not surprised he's unhappy too. Is he the type that likes to fake-it-til-you-make-it? As in, does he believe that in saying things are OK, that means they will be OK? That could explain his earlier denials.

A baby is a huge life change, and life changes affect everyone differently. The fact that you're still feeling it at 1 year is understandable, but I agree that you two need to work together in finding yourselves some relief. If you continue to ignore the elephant in the room, eventually it'll take a big shit everywhere. A family counselor could be very beneficial here, in addition to getting him re-evaluated for depression. You two may have the desire in place to make changes, but the roadmap might need some tweaking from an outside source. It could be more involved than just a movie night, yanno? Maybe that's not the ideal way for you two to connect.

Yes, he likes to pretend giant pink elephants in a room do not exist.

I am very open to going back to counseling and we did discussed it in January, if things didn't get better. I did plan on bringing it up again if the depression/doctor/therapist talk was going well this week.

[Deleted]

Have YOU gone to therapy alone?
That would be my suggestion...i think you need to figure out what you want, what you are going to put up with, and how much are you going to use his depression as an excuse not to be happy.

[partiallysunny]

May 21, 2012 15:34:48 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

wait, he's saying this is him or this is you? I'm confused.

Me too! After I asked if he was happy, he said no. I asked a "so what now questions" and he said "we know what we have to do and we will do it". I was confused, because I had no idea why he was unhappy.

When I pointed out that he never explained why he was unhappy and I had no idea what he needed from me, he mentioned the other time that this had happened and how it's just a funk he needs to get out of.

[partiallysunny]

May 21, 2012 15:42:11 GMT -5 mags said:

Have YOU gone to therapy alone?
That would be my su

No. We had a few solo sessions with the marriage counselor, but I have never gone just for me with a separate therapist.

Can I ask why you ask?

Edit: Oh, I see you elaborated.

May 21, 2012 15:42:11 GMT -5 mags said:

...i think you need to figure out what you want, what you are going to put up with, and how much are you going to use his depression as an excuse not to be happy.

I never thought of it as you put it, but I made a vow with myself to be happy when I realized how I felt in January. Trust me, this is all coming from me being unwilling to be in an unhappy marriage.

Edit: and, honestly, to be a good rolemodel for the kiddo. I don't want the kid to look at us and think this is what he should model his own marriage after.

[Deleted]

Do you both go to individual counseling? I think that would be a healthy first step for each of you. I know what it's like to have a SO who battles depression and it can be very difficult. Being able to have open discussions about it and how it makes you feel is very very important. *hugs*

[Deleted]

May 21, 2012 15:45:23 GMT -5 partiallysunny said:

May 21, 2012 15:42:11 GMT -5 mags said:

Have YOU gone to therapy alone?
That would be my su

No. We had a few solo sessions with the marriage counselor, but I have never gone just for me with a separate therapist.

Can I ask why you ask?

Edit: Oh, I see you elaborated.

May 21, 2012 15:42:11 GMT -5 mags said:

...i think you need to figure out what you want, what you are going to put up with, and how much are you going to use his depression as an excuse not to be happy.

I never thought of it as you put it, but I made a vow with myself to be happy when I realized how I felt in January. Trust me, this is all coming from me being unwilling to be in an unhappy marriage.

Edit: and, honestly, to be a good rolemodel for the kiddo. I don't want the kid to look at us and think this is what he should model his own marriage after.

Im glad to hear you say that!!
BUT its MAY and Jan. was 5 months ago...

[partiallysunny]

May 21, 2012 15:59:33 GMT -5 mags said:

May 21, 2012 15:45:23 GMT -5 partiallysunny said:

No. We had a few solo sessions with the marriage counselor, but I have never gone just for me with a separate therapist.

Can I ask why you ask?

Edit: Oh, I see you elaborated.

I never thought of it as you put it, but I made a vow with myself to be happy when I realized how I felt in January. Trust me, this is all coming from me being unwilling to be in an unhappy marriage.

Edit: and, honestly, to be a good rolemodel for the kiddo. I don't want the kid to look at us and think this is what he should model his own marriage after.

Im glad to hear you say that!!
BUT its MAY and Jan. was 5 months ago...

I have a million excuses for you if you want them.

[partiallysunny]

I have to leave, but thank you for the advice so far.

[Deleted]

May 21, 2012 16:02:17 GMT -5 partiallysunny said:

May 21, 2012 15:59:33 GMT -5 mags said:

Im glad to hear you say that!!
BUT its MAY and Jan. was 5 months ago...

I have a million excuses for you if you want them.

lol that is why i suggested counseling for you alone.

[Deleted]

Individual therapy for both of you would be a good start. Your husband sounds like he is depressed and that's nothing to be ashamed of. Talking to a professional may help him understand that. Besides, if all he thinks is that he's not good enough, he's not going to put any real effort in to fixing things because he won't believe he's capable of it.

[fussbucket]

I'm sorry you are going through this. I will frame my response in kind of a good news/bad news format. First the bad news.

You are still a loooooong way from parenting becoming much easier. I feel like we are only just now getting to a place where H and I aren't just totally drained at the end of each day that we have a little more energy to just enjoy each other after Baby Fuss goes to bed. Do you want to have another kid at any point?

Not feeling worthy of your love, ehhh, that rubs me a bit the wrong way. He's either too chickenshit to say something he's afraid will hurt you or else he's a supermajoremodramahor. He needs individual counseling, and "Nah, I don't want to work on being a better person and partner and role model for my child" is not an acceptable answer.

OK, now the good news.

Individual counseling for YOU can help you immensely, at least in terms of having somewhere to vent of your own that's not all over your dear family. And of course, logistically, it's way easier to schedule than joint counseling that involves your child's other primary care-giver. You may be surprised at how much help it is to you to have this extra support that's all for YOU, even if you don't actually think "you're" the one with "the problem."

Another point I hope is taken as ultimately optimistic (at least potentially) is that it is SO EASY to fall into this rut caring for an infant/young child. So easy and so typical, and indeed fixable, if both people really want to do it. I really do think individual therapy for both of you is where you both need to find, for yourselves, that purpose and direction to fix it.

Your H also needs to recognize and acknowledge that his track record of withdrawing emotionally when the going gets tough is not acceptable in fulfilling his increasing responsibilities to his growing family. It's the emotional equivalent of going out partying every night with his buddies, Bump-style. He's just cast you in a different version of that movie. Dude needs to nut up and take care of himself so he can help take care of you, even if he has a sad.

In regards to that last point, I highly recommend you read this book:
www.amazon.com/Depression-Fallout-Impact-Couples-Preserve/dp/0060009349/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337635280&sr=8-1

I read it when I was depressed so I could better understand what my H was dealing with, and I was already in therapy getting help. That's a proactive way to deal with depression that acknowledges its effects on others, even if you feel like getting to its origin and healing is still beyond your reach. He needs to do something, and hopefully this book will help you understand what are reasonable and unreasonable expectations for and on your part based on what he ultimately decides he will or won't do.

Good luck and sorry for the fucking novel.

[BettyBookWorm]

:heart:

I'm sorry PS. I think maybe y'all should consider marriage counseling just to have a professional help you. I hope it gets better for you both soon.

[Deleted]

I'm a little weirded out by his refusal to really discuss these things further. I also don't like that he says "we" when he clearly means "I".

If you didn't know there was an issue that one time or what made it better, how do you now "know what we have to do?" He's pretty much tying your hands.

[partiallysunny]

May 21, 2012 19:54:42 GMT -5 @habbsies said:

I'm a little weirded out by his refusal to really discuss these things further.

This is actually one of our communication issues that pisses me off to no end. He does this thing where he just stops talking. I think he is thinking about something and give him time to respond and 45 minutes later he still hasn't responded. And it's not just things like when we are discussing our marriage or the kid. It's even simple things like "what are we doing this weekend?". We talk and an hour later I go "wait, I still have no idea what is going on this weekend."

May 21, 2012 16:26:38 GMT -5 fussbucket said:

Not feeling worthy of your love, ehhh, that rubs me a bit the wrong way. He's either too chickenshit to say something he's afraid will hurt you or else he's a supermajoremodramahor.

I lean more towards chickenshit. He isn't very dramatic.

May 21, 2012 16:26:38 GMT -5 fussbucket said:

Your H also needs to recognize and acknowledge that his track record of withdrawing emotionally when the going gets tough is not acceptable in fulfilling his increasing responsibilities to his growing family. It's the emotional equivalent of going out partying every night with his buddies, Bump-style. He's just cast you in a different version of that movie. Dude needs to nut up and take care of himself so he can help take care of you, even if he has a sad.

He has acknowledges that he withdraws emotionally from me. I never thought of it the way you put it, as the emotional equivalent of going out and partying. Puts things in a very different perspective.

Thank you for the book recommendation. I will look into it. And yes, we have always talked about 2 or 3 kids.

If I missed anyone's questions, please let me know.

SMALL UPDATE:
In the small time span of when I get home from work until he goes to work, I explained to him what I explained here. I pointed out he made the comparision between two rough periods in our marriage, and the first only got better with counseling. I said I really wanted him to talk to his doctor and see about therapy because it just seemed like he was having a hard time with his life right now. I assured him I wasn't questioning his love for Bubby or his parenting skills, just that I was worried that he could be getting depressed.

We are going to talk about it more this weekend (when we have more than a half hour to talk). I wanted to give him some time to think about it.

Thank you everyone. I will look into therapy myself. I will make a doctors appointment this week or next week and ask about a referral (if I do it that way, I will get some sessions for free through my insurance). I had been wanting to go anyway, because of the issues with my parents and dealing with their depression and bipolar, but this just gives me more of a kick in the ass to go.

[imoan]

OMG, I'm laughing my ass off at "I'm not worthy of you". That is just a pathetic excuse that is laughable in how cliched it is. And the rest of it... excuse, excuse, excuse. He's just chock full of 'em.

[Muddled]

If nothing else, I'm glad it's all out there. No more ignoring it.