Breaking: Romney Paid Zero Taxes From 1996 To 2009
by kavips Nov 04, 2012 10:09am PST
Harry Reid was right. Bloomberg finally cracked the story... Using a tax shelter called a CRUT (charitable remainder unitrust) that was held by the Church of Latter Day Saints (Mormons), Mitt Romney was able to pay zero taxes (legally) every single year from 1996 to 2009. Why did he stop in 2009? Because he would make public his 2010 tax return, that is why. This tax loophole was killed by Congress in 1997. However those including Romney that were already using it were allowed to continue it. The way it works, is that Romney makes a "charitable" contribution to the Church of Latter Day Saints and it goes into a trust. Since the trust is held by the church, the money is tax deferred. Any capital gains, are non taxed because of the charities status. Like an annuity, the donor gets a charitable tax deduction and an stream of cash payments. When Romney dies, the church accepts full ownership..
Bloomsberg's attorneys estimate as the Romneys have received these payments, the money that will potentially be left for charity has declined from at least $750,000 in 2001 to $421,203 at the end of 2011..... Romney has refused to answer any thing on this topic. His campaign puts out that it was all legal.... Legal perhaps. Ethical for the president of the United States? Well, only if you want a crook running the country.... Imagine! Legally stealing from your church!.
Post by thedutchgirl on Nov 4, 2012 23:30:26 GMT -5
When I read the Bloomberg article it sounds like only the money in the CRUT is not taxes but other income may be? I don't understand it to mean he paid zero taxes completely? I could be wrong, though.
i don't like the guy (shocker) but something sounds wrong here.
This is where I am. It sounds off.
Also, did he release any tax returns when he ran for governor in MA? I thought he did release tax returns at some other point, but just didn't for 2008/2009 and I thought it was more likely it was that off shore no penalty deal...
i don't like the guy (shocker) but something sounds wrong here.
This is where I am. It sounds off.
Also, did he release any tax returns when he ran for governor in MA? I thought he did release tax returns at some other point, but just didn't for 2008/2009 and I thought it was more likely it was that off shore no penalty deal...
He refused to release them in 2002 when he ran for Gov.
A bloomberg article I read said the trust "deferred taxes" not "deferred all taxes and Romney paid no tax at all". Maybe I didn't read the latest version. Romney's accountants have said he paid an effective federal rate of at least 13.6% annually for 20yrs. Considering the timing I'm going to go ahead and be extremely suspicious that this is anything more than a desperate, last-minute ploy. Show me the returns and I'll believe it.
I don't see why this really matters. Most people feel that Romney didn't do anything illegal to not pay taxes or lower his rates. We already know he paid an effective tax rate lower than many people here. If you believe that this would lead Romney to leave or create loopholes in the tax code to benefit the wealthy, you already thought that. I don't see this as a game changer. It just reminds people of what they already knew or cared about right before the election.
My biggest problem with it, if it is true, is that he (or via his accountants and/or campaign reps) has come out and said he paid a certain effective tax rate every year for however long. If he actually paid zero, then he lied about that and I think that's crap. The tax code sucks and has a ton of loopholes. If he exploited those loopholes to the best of his accounting team's ability, then so be it, but admit it and don't pretend you pay as much as everyone else.
Eh, it's easy for everyone to be all righteous about it b/c they're not multimillionaires. But let's be honest, if there was a way to hold onto A LOT your money, you would probably do it too right? If your accountant said, "We can put your money in a trust and save you millions of dollars," wouldn't you? I would, but I don't plan on running for higher office.
My issue is that he hid it, and it doesn't look good to do if you want to be POTUS, claiming to want to help people, especially through improving the economy,and claiming you care about "the little people." Even then, you could really genuinely want to help people, but the sheer amount of money the government takes when you are rich is pretty incredible. Can you imagine if the government wanted $10 million of your money, even if you have $100 million, it's still shitload of money, you know? (i'm just throwing out hypothetical numbers here).
So i'm not really that disturbed by it, but it certainly makes him look bad given the context of the campaign.
I agree that hiding it makes it worse. If it had been out there since 2009 or before, it'd be forgotten by now just like his dog tied to the roof story....
Can someone explain this to me like I'm 5? I get that he deducted his charitable donations, but how did he get the money back?
There are a lot of ways that you can do planned giving (giving from your estate).
He did what is called a charitable remainder uni trust.
Basically is he makes a gift of stock or a giant pile of money to a 501(c)3 organization, in this case, the Mormon church.
The Mormon church then says that he is going to pay Romney a certain percentage of the money, yearly, as an annuity. that money is tax free.
Meanwhile, the nonprofit invests the money in the CRUT and when they sell the securities in it, they don't hae to pay the capital gains tax because they are tax exempt.
The money that is left in the trust (the remainder) when Romney passes away will then all go to the nonprofit organization.
It is a way for people to make a gift of some assets while still receiving income and receiving the tax deduction while they are still alive.
Eh, it's easy for everyone to be all righteous about it b/c they're not multimillionaires. But let's be honest, if there was a way to hold onto A LOT your money, you would probably do it too right? If your accountant said, "We can put your money in a trust and save you millions of dollars," wouldn't you? I would, but I don't plan on running for higher office.
My issue is that he hid it, and it doesn't look good to do if you want to be POTUS, claiming to want to help people, especially through improving the economy,and claiming you care about "the little people." Even then, you could really genuinely want to help people, but the sheer amount of money the government takes when you are rich is pretty incredible. Can you imagine if the government wanted $10 million of your money, even if you have $100 million, it's still shitload of money, you know? (i'm just throwing out hypothetical numbers here).
So i'm not really that disturbed by it, but it certainly makes him look bad given the context of the campaign.
This is where I am. It makes him look like a total moron, especially given his explicit statements about the 47% of people who also (legally) pay no taxes
Can someone explain this to me like I'm 5? I get that he deducted his charitable donations, but how did he get the money back?
There are a lot of ways that you can do planned giving (giving from your estate).
He did what is called a charitable remainder uni trust.
Basically is he makes a gift of stock or a giant pile of money to a 501(c)3 organization, in this case, the Mormon church.
The Mormon church then says that he is going to pay Romney a certain percentage of the money, yearly, as an annuity. that money is tax free.
Meanwhile, the nonprofit invests the money in the CRUT and when they sell the securities in it, they don't hae to pay the capital gains tax because they are tax exempt.
The money that is left in the trust (the remainder) when Romney passes away will then all go to the nonprofit organization.
It is a way for people to make a gift of some assets while still receiving income and receiving the tax deduction while they are still alive.
I work in philanthropy.
So is it more like he is giving them funds to invest, and then they keep the profits from the investment and he gets back the original funds?