In this installment of stones vs. guns...

[arborgold]

A new video from an ISRAELI human rights group shows settlers opening fire on stone-throwing Palestinian youths. Probably the most disturbing aspect of the film is that an Israeli soldier is standing right next to the men who are opening fire on the Palestinian youths and does nothing to stop it.

Like the article points out, we hear about this all the time but rarely get to actually see it, which is why there are some who claim it actually doesn't happen.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18149573

[arborgold]

May 25, 2012 7:49:56 GMT -5 @mrdobalina said:

The settlers and Palestinians will always fight; I don't know what the answer is for that. But the shock and shame of this video is the soldier. Absolutely NO excuse for that pathetic example of IDF member.

Um...(1) This was a fight between youths throwing rocks, and settlers USING GUNS; (2) How to fix this? Removing illegal settlements would seem like a great start.

I agree that this was a pathetic excuse for an IDF member, though.

[ttt]

May 25, 2012 8:22:16 GMT -5 @mrdobalina said:

May 25, 2012 8:18:38 GMT -5 arborgold said:

Um...(1) This was a fight between youths throwing rocks, and settlers USING GUNS; (2) How to fix this? Removing illegal settlements would seem like a great start.

I agree that this was a pathetic excuse for an IDF member, though.

Jews and Arabs have been fighting in this area for thousands of years. Removing the settlements (which I agree with) isn't going to fix it. I'm totally pessimistic on this because I have seen some of the most peaceful, loving people end up stark raving mad over this. I wish I had a magic wand to create two special separate happy lands for each people. I'm glad you think this situation can be fixed, I hope I'm wrong...

No they haven't. The conflict really only dates back to about the early 1900s.

[Seesaw]

May 25, 2012 9:15:37 GMT -5 ttt said:

May 25, 2012 8:22:16 GMT -5 @mrdobalina said:

Jews and Arabs have been fighting in this area for thousands of years. Removing the settlements (which I agree with) isn't going to fix it.

No they haven't. The conflict really only dates back to about the early 1900s.

I agree with the 1000s of years.

I agree it would be best if they'd stop the hate, forgive and get along. But that option seems to go against human nature. It would be nice to give them both happy lands, but I think it's more likely one will have to annihilate the other before there can be peace.

[ttt]

May 26, 2012 3:13:38 GMT -5 @Seesaw said:

May 25, 2012 9:15:37 GMT -5 ttt said:

No they haven't. The conflict really only dates back to about the early 1900s.

I agree with the 1000s of years.

I agree it would be best if they'd stop the hate, forgive and get along. But that option seems to go against human nature. It would be nice to give them both happy lands, but I think it's more likely one will have to annihilate the other before there can be peace.

Why do you agree that this has been going on 1000s of years?

At any rate, the conflict is primarily a political one, not a religious one.


www.economist.com/node/12899483

[emisi]

Stopping it would involve ending illegal settlements in Palestinian areas, and I don't see the Israeli leadership even considering doing that any time soon.

But no, this hasn't been 1000s of years long. Arabs and Jews coexisted peacefully in this area for a very long time.

[fernane]

May 25, 2012 9:15:37 GMT -5 ttt said:

May 25, 2012 8:22:16 GMT -5 @mrdobalina said:

Jews and Arabs have been fighting in this area for thousands of years. Removing the settlements (which I agree with) isn't going to fix it. I'm totally pessimistic on this because I have seen some of the most peaceful, loving people end up stark raving mad over this. I wish I had a magic wand to create two special separate happy lands for each people. I'm glad you think this situation can be fixed, I hope I'm wrong...

No they haven't. The conflict really only dates back to about the early 1900s.

Despite the differing reasons for fighting, Palestinians (not all of whom are Arab, btw), and Jews have been at this since around the 15th century BC. During this time, Canaan (present day Palestine), after 15 years, was conquered and settled by the Jews. Long story short, the fighting has never ceased. There are historical documents supporting this. Israel didn't become an independent state until 1948, though. Maybe this is what you are referring to.

[ttt]

May 26, 2012 10:53:25 GMT -5 fernane said:

May 25, 2012 9:15:37 GMT -5 ttt said:

No they haven't. The conflict really only dates back to about the early 1900s.

Despite the differing reasons for fighting, Palestinians (not all of whom are Arab, btw), and Jews have been at this since around the 15th century BC. During this time, Canaan (present day Palestine), after 15 years, was conquered and settled by the Jews. Long story short, the fighting has never ceased. There are historical documents supporting this. Israel didn't become an independent state until 1948, though. Maybe this is what you are referring to.

This is just not true. There has not been ongoing fighting between Jews and Arabs for thousands of years. The current conflict did not start until the early 1900s and before that, Jews and Arabs lived in relative peace with each other. They didn't fight with each other any more than they fought with other groups, like the Ottoman Turks. Which historical documents are you referring to that support your theory?

I am curious what you mean by non-Arab Palestinians, though.

[fernane]

Palestine was never an exclusively Arab country, although Arabic gradually became the language of most the population after the Muslim invasions of the seventh century.
Depending who you talk to, you will hear several definitions of "Palestinian," though.
I guess the specific current conflict has its own timeline, but the struggle over the land began much longer ago, which can be found just researching Jewish history.

[ttt]

May 26, 2012 12:57:31 GMT -5 fernane said:

Palestine was never an exclusively Arab country, although Arabic gradually became the language of most the population after the Muslim invasions of the seventh century.
Depending who you talk to, you will hear several definitions of "Palestinian," though.
I guess the specific current conflict has its own timeline, but the struggle over the land began much longer ago, which can be found just researching Jewish history.

Okay. Very few countries - if any - are exclusively one ethnic group. Nearly every nation on earth has residents and/or citizens who belong to different ethnic groups. But who, specifically, are these "non-Arab Palestinians" you are referring to? I've never heard of this.

Yes there has always been a struggle over that land. The struggle over the land was never between Jews and Arabs, though, until the 20th century. It was between the Arabs and the British, the Jews and the British, the French and the British, the Arabs and the Ottoman Turks, between the Ottomans and the Europeans, etc. You can't say "Jews and Arabs have been fighting each other for thousands of years!" when it's just not true. They haven't.

[Seesaw]

I believe people have fought over this and other lands for 1000's of years based on religious feelings. I do not have anyone's written account of history to cite in support of my beliefs. Feel free to go with your own feelings on this matter. I'm sure there are some sources somewhere, but why take time to find and post them? Anyone can also find sources refuting it.

[ttt]

May 27, 2012 11:16:09 GMT -5 @Seesaw said:

I believe people have fought over this and other lands for 1000's of years based on religious feelings. I do not have anyone's written account of history to cite in support of my beliefs. Feel free to go with your own feelings on this matter. I'm sure there are some sources somewhere, but why take time to find and post them? Anyone can also find sources refuting it.

So basically, you just "feel" that these are the historical facts even though you have no evidence whatsoever to support it.

Well, I *feel* that the United States was founded by ancient Romans who flew across the Atlantic in the year 32 BC on their nuclear-powered aircraft. I don't need any written account to support this. I just have to feel it.