Not giving Frontline/flea meds?

[Deleted]

I detailed some problems we've been having with our dog having fevers in a post below. When we went to the vet, the vet noted we've brought Noodle in on the 12th of the month every single time it has happened this year (4/12, 7/12, 10/12, 11/12). So it got me thinking that maybe there is something to do with a monthly occurrence that causes his problems. The only monthly thing is his Heartguard and Frontline. I'm not willing to cut out the Heartguard without replacing it with another med, but I'm considering not giving the Frontline this month. It was due on 12/1, but I haven't given it yet. I've never seen a flea here in NorCal, but he's always been on flea meds. He goes on 3 walks a day, but doesn't spend much time outside otherwise. It's rainy/colder season right now. Other than maybe causing some itching from bites, would I be placing him in any danger by skipping the Frontline? The vet doesn't prescribe the Frontline, just the Heartguard. Is it even possible that a medication might cause an infection (he had elevated something counts this time, indicating an infection)? WWYD?

[independencegirl74]

I know some animals do have reactions to heartworm and/or flea preventatives, but I'm not sure that's the case here. Those typically occur immediately after the medication is giving (within hours to start seeing symptoms). If you're going to the vet a week and a half after giving the meds, I wouldn't think they'd be causing the fevers/infections.

Others may have better insight, though.

If you do consider switching, I've always used and liked Interceptor as my heartworm preventative; I've just started Trifexis as a combo heartworm/flea preventative, because I have yet to find a flea med I'm 100% happy with.

[Deleted]

Thanks. I don't think its necessarily a direct reaction either. But maybe more like a chain reaction. Maybe his immune system is somehow weakened by the meds, then making him more suseptible to infections in the days after receiving them and eating something off the ground, etc. causes an infection that normally he'd fight off? I don't know. Grasping. Thanks for the med recs. We did just start probiotics, so maybe I should try that for a few months without changing anything else just to see if that does the trick. I'm too impatient for changing just one variable at a time when I have a million different suspicions, but I know that's probably what I need to do.

[patches31709]

Are you using Frontline for flea or tick prevention? (Not sure what you have in your area, I'm in the northeast so we have both). I only apply Frontline twice a year - once at the beginning of summer, and once in September. The rest of the time, we use a neem oil shampoo and spray.

[Deleted]

I've never seen a flea or a tick here (I grew up in GA where we have plenty of both), but I don't roll around in the grass like Noodle does. So maybe I just haven't picked any up? The vet has never brought it up. That's why I wondering if there's really any danger in not giving it to him, especially in winter (well, what passes for "winter" here).

[patches31709]

What kind of temperatures are you talking about? I'm not a vet obviously, but I see no reason for Frontline usage in the winter. I really don't like putting any of that on our guy, and I only give heartworm meds every 6 weeks and don't do that in the dead of winter either, so I'm maybe I'm a bit of a crazy pet person and not the best person to ask.

[Deleted]

Winter=highs in 50s/60s, lows in high 30s/40s, rainy
Summer=highs in 60s/70s, lows in 40s/50s, dry

We don't really have seasons other than rainy and dry. But like I said, I've never seen either kind of bug. I still haven't given it. I know I won't know which made the difference (starting probiotics or stopping flea meds) if I don't and he doesn't get sick, but since I'd be giving the flea meds again in "summer," if it started up again then, I might be able to ID a correlation.

Thanks for the advice! I'll probabaly put a call in to my vet just to make sure skipping the flea meds wouldn't be the end of the world.

[mmp]

Dec 3, 2012 21:10:04 GMT -5 patches31709 said:

Are you using Frontline for flea or tick prevention? (Not sure what you have in your area, I'm in the northeast so we have both). I only apply Frontline twice a year - once at the beginning of summer, and once in September. The rest of the time, we use a neem oil shampoo and spray.

Same here.

[calico]

Worst case scenario from not giving the Frontline is that Noodle might bring home fleas or ticks. If I were in your situation, I would experiment and see if this is the cause of your issues. I've heard of lethargy and siezures as resulting reactions to flea preventatives, not fever, but who knows.

[Deleted]

Well, it's not the Frontline and the probiotics didn't help. It's 12/9; he's got a fever of 103 and the "I'm sick" look about him :-( Just in time for his mid-month $200 trip to the vet. Fuck. I'm totally out of ideas. Other than maybe it's time for a new vet, which is too bad because I really like our vet.

[violet]

The average temperature of a healthy dog is 101 degrees, but like people, some dogs have higher and lower temps. My dog is not currently on flea medication since he has skin issues with Vetra3D so
I am currently going to try a different type and see if he reacts to it. Maybe try Interceptor? It does similar things as heartguard, but the active ingredient is different. Maybe your dog is sensitive to ivermectin?

[Deleted]

Thanks violet, I'll talk to the vet about Interceptor. I'm intimately familiar with my dog's temp (gross) because we take it so much with this recurring infection. He's normally a 101 to 101.5. 103 this late in the day almost certainly means that untreated it will be between 104 and 105 tomorrow morning. Sigh. After the last trip, we sat down with our vet and came up with a decision tree/plan about what to do when it happened again. I have the feeling we'll be starting the anti-biotics before morning. Gah. My neigbor runs a rescue and I got a new vet recommendation from her tonight. She also suggested that we're just suppressing the infection, not curing it, so he might need a different anti-biotic to really kick it.

[patches31709]

You probably won't be able to find Interceptor. It's not expected to be available again until sometime early next year. We had to switch to Heartguard.

[Deleted]

Ok, updating just for the heck of it. $730 later, we have a second opinion of "not sure." Sigh. Vet is going to call tomorrow with some more results. And probably a rec for a $500 ultrasound. I don't begrudge him it AT ALL, and would double it for an answer, but man this hurts right before christmas. Especially when there just aren't any answers!

On a different note, he hasn't yet ruled out a bunch of scary stuff i'll be up all night scaring myself with web info on heart infections, kidney disease, heartworms and fox tails.

[patches31709]

Dec 12, 2012 23:45:10 GMT -5 @juno said:

On a different note, he hasn't yet ruled out a bunch of scary stuff i'll be up all night scaring myself with web info on heart infections, kidney disease, heartworms and fox tails.

Oh no, don't do this. Google can be a scary place!

[Deleted]

Well, everything tested for yesterday gave us nuthin'. No heartworms, no gut infection, no other funny bloodwork. Off for the ultrasound that I am fairly confident will show exactly nothing (I think thy're using this one to try to rule out kidney infection and foxtails in the gut). After that I think we're at another dead end. But I feel like we need to exhaust all the possibilities before I can give up and just deal with constant antibiotics. If nothing else, it's giving me more confidence in our regular vet that the second is confirming that this is a complete mystery. If only I knew as much Dog as Noodle knows English; he might be able to tell me what's wrong!

[calico]

Well damn. I was hoping that you had checked in with an answer to the mystery.

[Deleted]

Nope. $1,200 and every test under the sun later (including the ultrasound today), we have no answers. Thanks for reading though. We're back to trying to figure it out ourselves. I guess next up is a different food. On the plus side, Noodle's back to normal after the latest round of antibiotics. For the next three weeks, anyway. Feel free to throw suggestions at me if you've got 'em!

ETA: Vet just called back and said the next step is a spinal tap :-( They've ruled out everything except a spinal cord infection and auto-immune disease. We're going to wait until the next episode and really really just hope there is no next episode.

[kellbell191]

Our dog had thousands of dollars worth of tummy issues when we got him. He is now pet insured through Pets Best (tests showed nothing so he has no pre existing) and eats allergy friendly food.

I know lots of people detox the Frontline with milk thistle. A holistic vet might be a good option as well.

[mrsfarmer]

What breed of dog is this? When we got our last Aussie from the rescue, we found out dogs in the collie/ Aussie line can have a genetic disorder that reacts poorly to Frontline ingredients.

[Deleted]

Noodle is a pit bull/boxer mix (well, really a Heinz 57, but that's as much as we can figure from looking at him). He's finished with the longer course of antibiotics as of this morning. So we're holding our breath and hoping it's over. I'm not giving Frontline until next spring. I figure the more things we can rule out the better. We also switched him to a fresh bag of TOTW from Candidae.

Thanks for all the suggestions ladies! I really appreciate the sounding board.