winnied, I know she was sick, but it is very hard not to be angry. Especially when her kid had to witness what he witnessed.
it's perfectly normal and acceptable to be angry. My sister in law died by suicide, it'll be 3 years in July. I was angry at her, the world, and God. Sometimes I still am. I'm angry she allowed my brother to be the one to find her and for many other reasons.
Logically, I know she was sick. Emotionally, I hate the choice she made that flipped our worlds upside down.
There are suicide loss support groups on Facebook and Reddit. Reading them helped me feel less alone. Even friends that very much meant well would piss me off with the things they would say because they just couldn't understand what I was going through.
Post by letsgetweird on Oct 19, 2023 0:53:48 GMT -5
For people that have had surgery, how many days do you need help after? I'm single and live alone so trying to figure out how long I would need someone to stay with me.
Post by letsgetweird on Sept 29, 2023 20:52:45 GMT -5
Tres leches. Yellow box cake (3 eggs, butter, and milk) and condensed milk, evaporated milk, and whole milk. Super easy. I usually make mine the night before.
I wonder if you would be comfortable doing a credit and financial check with her? Has he taken credit cards in her name, loans? Has she transferred any property to his name?
There might be some invisible ties you might not be aware of and she may only be vaguely privy to. It’s usually on the top of most DV check lists to have a clear understanding of a financial picture - the good and the bad.
I hope this doesn’t come across as trite, unhelpful, or cold. I guess we just don’t know what her financial position really might be and might be driving some of these emotional decisions, too.
To answer your question, yes, your boundaries are very appropriate. She seems to be able to travel and go places. Does she work outside the home? What’s her income and how long will it last? Her health insurance and access to medical care? Any chance you can meet up for lunch without the bf? If/when she says no, that’s not on you. And you are not being unreasonable.
At this point, I'm not really comfortable having any conversations with her about the details of her relationship and I doubt she is either.
She has recently come into an inheritance which is one reason I suspect he stays around. She doesn't work. She has enough to last for the rest of her life but she's not financially responsible. She doesn't have health insurance. She went to the ER twice last year and saw a specialist about possibly needing surgery on her wrist.
She has not set that boundary though, which is what makes this conversation with her so confusing. If she set that boundary, I would most likely go no contact with her and let her know I'm here when she wants to see me without him.
To a degree, this kind of goes to my point, though.
You seem to view a boundary as a verbalized statement told to another person and it's expected the other person will comply, and in turn, you're confused as to why your mother isn't complying.
But that's the point. Boundaries are what you decide for yourself you're going to set for YOUR OWN wellbeing and no one else's. And it's on you and only you to make sure the boundary stays firm. Yes - sometimes we speak these boundaries to others, but it doesn't have to be spoken. And yes, sometimes the other person will actually comply. But often - as is the case here - that doesn't happen.
Your mom has decided for herself that she only wants to see her kids if her BF is included too. That's HER boundary. Doesn't matter if she's actually said that or not - it's clearly an expectation that she's set up for herself and she's trying to enforce it.
This is all just to say that this whole concept of setting boundaries - try to attach as little emotion to it as you can and just keep doing what you know YOU need to do for your own wellbeing. You can't rely on others to respect your choices - which is all that a boundary is. A choice you're making for yourself.
I understand what boundaries are and find it kind of patronizing that you feel you need to explain it now twice. I think you're misunderstanding and I do not believe my mom is enforcing that boundary but I'm not going to go back and forth with you.
How old is your Mom? Is it possible that she’s experiencing any medical or cognitive issues? I will say also that it doesn’t sound like she’s exercised any social muscles in a long time and is probably becoming a little odder and more set in her ways as time goes on.
She is 58. And not experiencing any medical issues as far as I know.
Post by letsgetweird on Sept 26, 2023 12:26:13 GMT -5
Assuming that the documentary was factual, then I do certainly thing this situation was mishandled and a very tragic situation. That being said, I don't feel great about individuals or companies being held responsible for someone's suicide in most cases. As someone that's lost a family member to suicide, I think it's possibly creating a dangerous precedent.
Post by letsgetweird on Sept 26, 2023 12:03:17 GMT -5
I'm sorry for dumping this emotional mess. I obviously do need to see my therapist at the very least to just get this off my chest and get a neutral third party opinion.
There have been some comments about acceptance so I want to address that. I have accepted that my mom has chosen to stay in this relationship and there is nothing I can do to change that. If I thought going NC with her would get her out of the relationship, I would do it. But i know I cannot force my mom. The more difficult thing to accept is this unexpected behavior from my mom. I hope this doesn't sound offensive, but I would have never anticipated that my mom would have accepted this type of relationship. Her choices in this relationship since the time she moved him into her home after 1 week in 2014 has been utterly baffling to me. It's hard to have what you thought was a "normal, stable" parent and for that to be completely flipped upside down.
Yeah this. She may never accept it. But that’s why I said above that you just need to be matter of fact and repeat the same phrase over and over when she asks if you all can hang out. "No I will not spend time with you in the presence of your boyfriend but feel free to make plans just the 2 of us/the family and let me know your availability." There is no reasoning with her and it’s not your fault that she feels abandoned, she is choosing that.
I'll add - in a sense, your mom is doing the same exact thing. She's setting a boundary too - "if you want to see me, you have to see him too". And you don't understand it, you're confused, etc - the same reactions she's having to yours.
Now, don't get me wrong - your boundary is reasonable. Hers is not - she's being reactionary and she's trying to make you feel guilty. But she's letting you know "this is what I'll accept".
She has not set that boundary though, which is what makes this conversation with her so confusing. If she set that boundary, I would most likely go no contact with her and let her know I'm here when she wants to see me without him.
I know having this convo by text makes things even harder. I don't think she'd be receptive to talking on the phone. Multiple times she's said she didn't want to have this convo anymore. My mom is emotionally stunted imo which has affected me as I have trouble expressing my emotions as well. Making this whole thing far more complicated lol.
When my mom said multiple times yesterday that I had abandoned her, in an attempt to clarify my position, I let her know I'm not asking her to choose between me and him. I told her (again) I'm just saying I will not be in his physical presence. I asked her if she could be away from him for a few hours, which has never been a problem before but I had to ask because of her puzzling responses. She got offended and made it seem like that's a ridiculous question because of course she could be away from him.
I'm just providing some additional context. The whole thing has been very confusing.
I've never had a reason to set a boundary with my mom before so it's obviously difficult for the both of us.
Post by letsgetweird on Sept 26, 2023 10:03:20 GMT -5
Update: we continued to text in the group chat and it just left me baffled. The way she was responding, I wasn't sure if she misinterpreted what I said. My exact response that started this whole fiasco (in response to her suggesting we spend time together)was "I will as long as BF isn't there." I felt like maybe she thought I was saying I wouldn't see her if they're still a couple. I'm not sure how she could have misinterpreted that though. She continued to say "we've made our choice" and that she feels abandoned, that she barely talks to her kids or see them. I talk to my mom every day.....I have not seen her since Memorial Day. It's not like we were seeing each other every week before this. I guess I'm trying to figure out what's going on here and it's harder to see it when you're in the middle of it. I'm not sure if she's trying to manipulate me or she truly feels abandoned. Regardless, I'm standing strong with my boundary. She also scoffed at me when I asked her if she could not be away from her bf for a few hours to see us, she said it was ridiculous to assume she can't be away from him. But if that's the case, I'm still not understanding where the confusion and outburst of emotion is coming from.
ECB, yes I understand that about boundaries but I think I'm still allowed to feel slighted that my mom would so casually invite me to be around him after I bluntly told her I despise this man and will never be around him ever again. I was so taken back by it that I wondered if she was drunk when she did it.
ProfessorArtNerd, my mom has never had friends. Just a husband or boyfriend. She's a major homebody and has shown no interest in making friends. And I'm not sure if I misspoke but the bf was not lurking or doing anything intimidating when we would visit my mom
Bad Dingo, my sister tries to stay out of this argument and hasn't set any boundaries around this situation. My mom has kind of assumed my sister feels the same way. While we haven't had a formal intervention, I've done all of that through text. Both myself and my brother have been very clear about where we stand and why, she knows we are worried about her safety. My mom is almost 60. I think I have to be realistic that she's not going to suddenly start making friends. She is a home body.
circa1978 I greatly appreciate all the responses and advice but I will admit I'm a little confused. I'm not seeking advice to get my mom to leave her relationship. This situation has been going on for almost 2 years, it's clear to me she's not leaving and that I cannot change her mind. My question is about my boundary and my mom's response to it. Logically, I know my boundary is appropriate. But I guess I was just seeking other people's opinion because I was surprised to see my mom react the way she did yesterday.
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. You are absolutely not wrong to have that boundary to not be around him.
I think if she makes comments like "I wish you were here," you can either ignore or ask if the boyfriend is around and when she says yes matter of fact remind her of your boundary. Rinse and repeat.
You says she has no friends, is that because he won’t allow her to have friends?
She has never had friends my whole life. She was married to my dad for almost 32 years and he didn't keep her from having friends. It's just the way she is. I tried to encourage her to get out and meet friends after my dad passed.
You are doing absolutely nothing wrong by refusing to be around him. You are not cutting your mom off or demanding an either/or. She is the one twisting it to that but you are not. Please see that clearly.
I do wonder, however, if he will let your mom see family without him present. There is a need to isolate the abused in these relationships so I’d worry that her dramatics are more due to the boyfriend’s threats than her true desire to not see you.
Are you therapy? I would recommend as a way to navigate this situation better.
I don't think he has ever tried to isolate her before. In the past when me and my siblings have visited my mom, he would usually go to another area of the house or go outside. So I tend to think he's not doing that. But I suppose it's possible especially with this new escalation. I have no idea if she's telling him about all the arguments we've had around this topic.
I wonder if there is something else going on with your Mom? Like narcissism or something. I am so not qualified to make any diagnosis, but her defiance and guilting doesn’t really fit. I find her goading really odd. Anyway, I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this and I think you’re completely justified in your stance. There’s no way I could be around a violent abuser.
She is not a narcissist. She is codependent and acting selfish IMO. She is emotionally immature.
I think my mom thought things were going to go back to the way they were, a happy little family that could spend time at her house with her and her bf. And I think she's acting out now that she's learned things will never go back to that as long as he is around. Since I didn't keep my boundaries firm last year, I think she thought the same thing would happen again.
I am so sorry. This sounds impossible and very scary. I would really seek out professional advice here. This man sounds dangerous bath to your mom and potentially to your family. I don’t think I’d say much without really getting some feedback from a therapist who is used to dealing with abusive relationships.
Yes, he is clearly a dangerous person which is the whole reason for the boundary. I've talked to my therapist about this in the past but I haven't seen her in over 6 months. Truly, I'm not sure what my therapist could do other than helping me manage my own emotions around the situation. My mom doesn't seem to be leaving this man any time soon.
Post by letsgetweird on Sept 25, 2023 20:48:40 GMT -5
She is spending a few days at the lake a couple of hours away. She sent pics and said "wish you guys would come sometime." Which is when i told her I would come, if he wasn't there. I feel like I blew up this day and conversation with my comment about not being around him. But I feel like for almost 3 months, we haven't seen each other & have been dealing w/ this big elephant in the room. I know the convo is coming up very soon because of the holidays so I figured now was the time to address it.
Right after she reconciled with him this summer, she was at an airbnb 1 hour away from me. She sent us pics of the pool and said we should come swim for the day. This is literally 2 weeks after we had a blow up argument over the situation and I very clearly let her know I would not be around him. So it felt like she was completely ignoring my boundaries and hoping this situation would magically fix itself.
I think from your OP that your boundary is around the fact that you don't want to be in the same room as this guy, right? So I would focus on that. Although it's supportive to say "I don't like how he treats you so I don't want to see you with him", it's putting pressure on her to leave. She isn't going to leave until she is ready, no matter what you say. So I'd focus it on you - he makes me uncomfortable. I can't enjoy my holiday around him. I don't want to see him. Etc. You can't make your mom leave, but you can decide how you interact with this man.
If she says that she doesn't have family, call her out on that BS and remind her that she does and she always will. You are always there for her, you just can't be around her BF. And I would hold firm to that. It may ruin her holiday, but it will ruin yours if you see him and you count too.
That's how I've posed it. I didn't mention the abuse today. I just said I'm willing to see her as long as he's not there.
Is she open to therapy with a therapist who specializes in DV? Im not sure what I would do. This is tough. She might get it eventually snd need the support. See her on your terms and never at her home. See if she would agree to therapy.
She has not been receptive to the idea of going to therapy
I just want to say I’m so sorry. It’s clear how much you love your mom. My inclination is that you should tell your mom you love her but you’re scared for her well-being and that you need to draw the line and not be around him, but I don’t know what the right answer is. This is so hard.
This is definitely good advice and something I've done with her. Admittedly, I have had some emotional outbursts especially when I found out she was bailing him out of jail. But I've tried to be logical and rational to not add fuel to the fire.
I’m really sorry. I don’t have any real advice, but I don’t think you’re wrong in your boundaries. Living 30 minutes away should not prevent her from meeting with you either at your home or in a public place near hers. It’s not like an overnight stay is necessary.
It doesn’t sound like you’re giving her an ultimatum, him or is, situation. So she’s likely just being dramatic. Do you think calling her bluff would work?
Calling her bluff in what way exactly?
To complicate matters, my brother that is NC with her lives in my home now so we can't really meet here lol. But my sister lives even closer to my mom, so we could meet there or in a public place.
Post by letsgetweird on Sept 25, 2023 19:57:12 GMT -5
PDQ...this will be long.
My mom has been w/ her bf since 2014. I learned less than 2 years ago that he has been abusive to her, I'm not sure if the abuse has been going on this whole time. I've never liked my mom's bf, she started dating him several months after my dad died & she moved him in 1 week after knowing him, my 20 yo brother still lived at home during that time. I understand my mom is codependent and has not made the best decisions.
He pushed her off the bed, causing her to break her wrist, he's choked her, he was arrested earlier this year for DV (at least the 3rd DV incident). They have separated for a month or two at least 3 times now. Last year, after they reconciled, I set a boundary that I wouldn't be around him. I ended up breaking that & was around him (very limited talking)while visiting my mom at her house. They separated again this spring (which is when I learned he was arrested) and then reconciled (after my mom bailed him out of jail, 2nd arrest this year - this time not for DV). Again, I set a boundary that I won't be around him & intend to keep it this time. I have not seen my mom since they reconciled in late June, she lives 30 minutes away. I do talk with my mom daily in a group chat w/ my sister. My brother is no contact as long as she is with him, my brother's wife died 6 months before the wrist incident (he was living w/ my mom at the time since he had quit his job). My brother has a lot of resentment over dealing with this very stressful situation on top of the traumatic & unexpected loss of his wife. TBH, I'm resentful too, it's added a lot of stress & anxiety to my life on top of my grief.
That being said, I understand the complexity of being in an abusive relationship. I know it can take leaving 7 times on average. Things came to a head today when my mom asked about spending time together. I agreed to but reminded her I will not be around her bf. She then says she guesses the holidays are off the table too. I let her know that's her choice if she prefers to be w/ him for the holidays but I will not change my mind about being around him. She then says "guess I don't have any family, can't imagine abandoning your own mother."
My mom has no siblings, no parents, no friends. All she has is her kids and her POS bf. She is not financially dependent on him, he is dependent on her & can't hold down a job. He has a history of being unsupportive. Her kids are the ones that rally and support her during difficult times (my grandma had a stroke last year & passed in March 2023). She will not go to therapy. I understand I cannot convince her to leave this man. I do not believe her bf is stable. My worst fear is that he kills my mom. I know the statistics around choking/strangulation.
The point of this long story: Am I making the right decision by setting this boundary? I want my mom in my life and I want to see her. But I do not want to be in the presence of that awful man. I have made it very clear how I feel about him and I don't even know why she would want me to be around him.
If you've made it this far, thank you for reading.
Personally, I would kick him out. But that is easy for me to say and probably very difficult for you to actually do. But I’m fully prepared for my dad to end up homeless and he isn’t moving into my house. I’m not “detaching with love”, I’m just detaching.
I know it sounds like I am enabling him and I probably am but my fear is if I kick him out, he will end up on the streets and I will never hear from him again. After losing one brother, I just cannot bear, right now, to lose another.
Its a diffciult situation and I don't expect anyone to understand it. Trust me, I have cried myself to sleep many a night worrying about him and also being upset with myself for not knowing how to handle this.
no judgment. My alcoholic brother just moved in with me recently. He was drinking very heavily and making very poor decisions after his wife died 2 years ago. I was so anxious after losing my sister in law and then seeing my brother not doing well. It was so hard.
He's now back to work and doing somewhat better, I think. He's been traveling for work alot so I don't see him all that often.
My younger brother recently died of a heart attack that his heavy drinking certainly contributed to, if not caused. He was not honest with anyone and I don't know that anything could have been done to change the path. I'm really sorry for everyone that is going through this.
Post by letsgetweird on Sept 22, 2023 21:00:05 GMT -5
Idk what I would do in that situation. I'd feel compelled to call her out on her lie but I don't think that is the best option.
My alcoholic brother moved in with me almost 3 months ago. It became apparent he was an alcoholic when his wife died 2 years ago but he confided in me that he had long been an alcoholic. I have an estranged brother that's an addict as well.
Post by letsgetweird on Sept 10, 2023 19:20:39 GMT -5
Convincing a hoarder to get help is the same as convincing an alcoholic to get help. You can't convince them.
My grandma was an extreme hoarder. She hoarded until she had a stroke last year and had to be moved into an assisted living facility. Surprisingly she didn't hoard there but that was probably because my mom was there so often. She passed away 6 months ago and we had to clean out her house.
Post by letsgetweird on Aug 15, 2023 11:16:01 GMT -5
I understand wanting a kid free wedding. But inviting someone and then revoking that invite but still expecting them to attend the ceremony for your benefit is just downright cruel.