While I strongly agree with your second statement, I just as strongly disagree with the first. I really don't know how you assign an 'importance factor' to children. Every one of them has yet to reveal how important they could possibly be to our world.
this is a charming and lovely sentiment. and wholly divorced from reality vis a vis distribution of protective resources.
Yes, because I said that ALL children should be protected by the secret service.
this is a charming and lovely sentiment. and wholly divorced from reality vis a vis distribution of protective resources.
Yes, because I said that ALL children should be protected by the secret service.
honestly, i don't think either you or i have any idea what you're saying at this point. here's what's been said and whether or not we agree.
everyone is special and unique: AGREED. children shouldn't die: AGREED. because they could be awesome when they grow up: AGREED. the president's children face active threats: AGREED. we can't afford, as a nation, armed security guards/police at every school: AGREED. it is impractical for all children to receive secret service protection: AGREED.
everything else in some vague squishy fashion: CLUSTERFUCK OF DISAGREEMENT BASED ON WHO THE HELL KNOWS WHAT.
Okay, so the answer is always "More guns!" right? I mean, let's just move into a full on police state - with armed guards everywhere that Nugget outlined. Makes perfect sense. What a wonderful country we would be!
Bam, I like you, but you're being a little obtuse on this one. Everyone knows the President and his family receive daily, credible, threats on their lives from multiple sources, like all Presidents and their families, and ex Presidents and their families. You and I don't. Kidnapping/killing the President/his family is a serious threat to national security and the running of the country, to the electoral process etc. Our deaths and the deaths of our children, sad though they would be, and mourned by many in our circles, would not. Four of our what, 44 presidents have been murdered in office, and many bullets fired at others lucky enough to survive. The odds of them being murdered on the job is significantly better than that of a NASCAR race car driver being killed in a race wreck. You and I don't face these threats, nor do our children. Of course they should be protected.
Sue - please read the begining of my OP. I said the same thing.
I take no issue with the president's children being protected. none.
Call me when the kidnapping of your fucking children would create a global crisis.
ugh - you're so right. I can't believe I even give a brown shit about those fucking scumbags.
I will agree with you when you hire an armed team to accompany your children every time they leave the house. To go to movies, a friend's house, the mall, walk the dog, go to the park, vacation and whereever else kids go. It's not like his kids are ONLY protected at school. They have a 24/7 security team in case they want to go out the front door.
That's why it doesn't make sense to say "Obama is okay with guns protecting his kids" - he may not be, but they have to have them. They don't get a choice, he can't say "so I'm going to take my kids out for pizza, you guys go home to your families" - an armed team goes with them.
When you feel the need and start funding that, then come back and say your kids need as much protection as the President's kids.
Yes, because I said that ALL children should be protected by the secret service.
honestly, i don't think either you or i have any idea what you're saying at this point. here's what's been said and whether or not we agree.
everyone is special and unique: AGREED. children shouldn't die: AGREED. because they could be awesome when they grow up: AGREED. the president's children face active threats: AGREED. we can't afford, as a nation, armed security guards/police at every school: AGREED. it is impractical for all children to receive secret service protection: AGREED.
everything else in some vague squishy fashion: CLUSTERFUCK OF DISAGREEMENT BASED ON WHO THE HELL KNOWS WHAT.
The second worse shooting was done at V-Tech. So are we going to start posting a bunch of armed guards on college campuses? Or make the campus police start patrolling classrooms and buildings? Does Aurora mean we should have armed guards in the aisles at the movies? Where the fuck does it end, man?
This is the sentiment behind the concealed carry movement. I agree it is not feasible to put armed guards everywhere. The concealed carry license holders go through extensive background checks and gun safety knowledge/ accuracy exams before being issued a license. These people are then the invisible security in every day locations. Statistically, even the mere likelihood that there are armed (law-abiding) citizens in a certain area significantly decreases the chances that a mass shooting or armed robbery will occur.
ugh - you're so right. I can't believe I even give a brown shit about those fucking scumbags.
I will agree with you when you hire an armed team to accompany your children every time they leave the house. To go to movies, a friend's house, the mall, walk the dog, go to the park, vacation and whereever else kids go. It's not like his kids are ONLY protected at school. They have a 24/7 security team in case they want to go out the front door.
That's why it doesn't make sense to say "Obama is okay with guns protecting his kids" - he may not be, but they have to have them. They don't get a choice, he can't say "so I'm going to take my kids out for pizza, you guys go home to your families" - an armed team goes with them.
When you feel the need and start funding that, then come back and say your kids need as much protection as the President's kids.
Ok.
And let's just be clear that when I do come back and say it - it will, in fact, be the first time I've ever said it.
The second worse shooting was done at V-Tech. So are we going to start posting a bunch of armed guards on college campuses? Or make the campus police start patrolling classrooms and buildings? Does Aurora mean we should have armed guards in the aisles at the movies? Where the fuck does it end, man?
This is the sentiment behind the concealed carry movement. I agree it is not feasible to put armed guards everywhere. The concealed carry license holders go through extensive background checks and gun safety knowledge/ accuracy exams before being issued a license. These people are then the invisible security in every day locations. Statistically, even the mere likelihood that there are armed (law-abiding) citizens in a certain area significantly decreases the chances that a mass shooting or armed robbery will occur.
Until they murder two people in cold blood. My friend and his boss were murdered by someone with a CCP. They are not all wonderful, law abiding citizens.
The second worse shooting was done at V-Tech. So are we going to start posting a bunch of armed guards on college campuses? Or make the campus police start patrolling classrooms and buildings? Does Aurora mean we should have armed guards in the aisles at the movies? Where the fuck does it end, man?
This is the sentiment behind the concealed carry movement. I agree it is not feasible to put armed guards everywhere. The concealed carry license holders go through extensive background checks and gun safety knowledge/ accuracy exams before being issued a license. These people are then the invisible security in every day locations. Statistically, even the mere likelihood that there are armed (law-abiding) citizens in a certain area significantly decreases the chances that a mass shooting or armed robbery will occur.
IN my state there was a groupon deal for shooting lessons and to earn your concealed carry license.
I do wish that when a person has had complaints against them to the police, but they have not done anything YET to lead to arrest, that a yellow flag would show up on a background check and thus be denied a gun sale. think of how many crimes were committed by someone who had been complained about, but that person just had not acted in a deadly manner yet. This was a random thought, not directed at you. lol
Yes, because I said that ALL children should be protected by the secret service.
honestly, i don't think either you or i have any idea what you're saying at this point. here's what's been said and whether or not we agree.
everyone is special and unique: AGREED. children shouldn't die: AGREED. because they could be awesome when they grow up: AGREED. the president's children face active threats: AGREED. we can't afford, as a nation, armed security guards/police at every school: AGREED. it is impractical for all children to receive secret service protection: AGREED.
everything else in some vague squishy fashion: CLUSTERFUCK OF DISAGREEMENT BASED ON WHO THE HELL KNOWS WHAT.
There was an armed resource officer at Columbine: AGREED
This is the sentiment behind the concealed carry movement. I agree it is not feasible to put armed guards everywhere. The concealed carry license holders go through extensive background checks and gun safety knowledge/ accuracy exams before being issued a license. These people are then the invisible security in every day locations. Statistically, even the mere likelihood that there are armed (law-abiding) citizens in a certain area significantly decreases the chances that a mass shooting or armed robbery will occur.
Until they murder two people in cold blood. My friend and his boss were murdered by someone with a CCP. They are not all wonderful, law abiding citizens.
The vast, vast majority is.There are anecdotes for every situation. Doesn't mean it happens often. For what it's worth, I would also support mental health screenings to rule out violent tendencies and more in-depth exams for CCDW permits. There are many CCDW permit holders and very few to virtually none become criminals. Further, if you are going to sneak a gun in somewhere and shoot someone, you are likely NOT going to go through the trouble of registering for CCDW first, since, you know, murder is pretty illegal anyway.
The second worse shooting was done at V-Tech. So are we going to start posting a bunch of armed guards on college campuses? Or make the campus police start patrolling classrooms and buildings? Does Aurora mean we should have armed guards in the aisles at the movies? Where the fuck does it end, man?
This is the sentiment behind the concealed carry movement. I agree it is not feasible to put armed guards everywhere. The concealed carry license holders go through extensive background checks and gun safety knowledge/ accuracy exams before being issued a license. These people are then the invisible security in every day locations. Statistically, even the mere likelihood that there are armed (law-abiding) citizens in a certain area significantly decreases the chances that a mass shooting or armed robbery will occur.
Extensive background checks? Do you know the percentage of background checks that are done when purchasing a gun? You can buy a gun off of the internet or at gun shows without a background check.
I don't care if people conceal and carry, but I DO care if the background checks aren't through. Nationwide universal background checks should have been implemented, yesterday.
I want some actual stats for all this "armed citizens are going to save the world" bullshit. Because I don't buy it.
oh, come on now. you don't think training via extensive play of call of duty is sufficient for everyone to pull off military-style defensive action designed to minimize collateral damage?
And regarding conceal & carry, aren't people more likely to be killed or injured THEMSELVES when they own a gun?
The whole "personal protection" argument is such BS. To protect yourself from someone you'd have to keep the gun easily accessible and loaded- both of which are generally not recommended for safety reasons.
This is the sentiment behind the concealed carry movement. I agree it is not feasible to put armed guards everywhere. The concealed carry license holders go through extensive background checks and gun safety knowledge/ accuracy exams before being issued a license. These people are then the invisible security in every day locations. Statistically, even the mere likelihood that there are armed (law-abiding) citizens in a certain area significantly decreases the chances that a mass shooting or armed robbery will occur.
lol I know that's the theory, Nugget. But seriously. I have a conceal carry license (don't own a weapon, just have the license). I did not go through an extensive security check, nor did I have extensive training (three hours at a range and four hours in a gun safety class). I've been diagnosed with depression, have attempted suicide once years ago, and have taken antidepressants; no one asked me about any of that. I know any number of conceal carry holders who are armed, who are active alcoholics and take multiple psychiatric meds and who have diagnoses of bipolarism, manic depression and paranoia. The theory that rational armed people will save us all is a dream.
I remember when you were talking about getting a gun. I don't remember many people saying "NO DON'T DO IT!" Most responses were all "yes get one you need to feel safe, just take classes so you know how to use it" (I don't remember how long ago this was, so I could be forgetting the people against you buying a gun)
Yes there are idiots that have guns. Same as there are idiots who drive drunk, and kill people. Should alcohol be banned?
This is the sentiment behind the concealed carry movement. I agree it is not feasible to put armed guards everywhere. The concealed carry license holders go through extensive background checks and gun safety knowledge/ accuracy exams before being issued a license. These people are then the invisible security in every day locations. Statistically, even the mere likelihood that there are armed (law-abiding) citizens in a certain area significantly decreases the chances that a mass shooting or armed robbery will occur.
lol I know that's the theory, Nugget. But seriously. I have a conceal carry license (don't own a weapon, just have the license). I did not go through an extensive security check, nor did I have extensive training (three hours at a range and four hours in a gun safety class). I've been diagnosed with depression, have attempted suicide once years ago, and have taken antidepressants; no one asked me about any of that. I know any number of conceal carry holders who are armed, who are active alcoholics and take multiple psychiatric meds and who have diagnoses of bipolarism, manic depression and paranoia. The theory that rational armed people will save us all is a dream.
I don't carry concealed hoping to save the world. I don't carry with the thought that one day I will save an entire movie theater. I carry because I may one day need to save myself. I support mental health counseling for permit-seekers, but in reality, it's not really all that practical because the lunatics that are going to shoot up a building and then kill themselves are not going to be interested in legally obtaining a firearm. I also think that not every person with depression or a mental illness/ disorder is violent. And I also believe that rational, law-abiding gun owners greatly outnumber the alternative. They just don't make the news.
can we just back up to the fact that suesue doesn't even have a weapon and got a concealed carry permit? yeah. the process of issuance of such permits CLEARLY involves confirmation of extensive, skilled handling of a gun.
lol I know that's the theory, Nugget. But seriously. I have a conceal carry license (don't own a weapon, just have the license). I did not go through an extensive security check, nor did I have extensive training (three hours at a range and four hours in a gun safety class). I've been diagnosed with depression, have attempted suicide once years ago, and have taken antidepressants; no one asked me about any of that. I know any number of conceal carry holders who are armed, who are active alcoholics and take multiple psychiatric meds and who have diagnoses of bipolarism, manic depression and paranoia. The theory that rational armed people will save us all is a dream.
I don't carry concealed hoping to save the world. I don't carry with the thought that one day I will save an entire movie theater. I carry because I may one day need to save myself. I support mental health counseling for permit-seekers, but in reality, it's not really all that practical because the lunatics that are going to shoot up a building and then kill themselves are not going to be interested in legally obtaining a firearm. I also think that not every person with depression or a mental illness/ disorder is violent. And I also believe that rational, law-abiding gun owners greatly outnumber the alternative. They just don't make the news.
I'm sorry, but what exactly are you protecting yourself against?
honestly, i don't think either you or i have any idea what you're saying at this point. here's what's been said and whether or not we agree.
everyone is special and unique: AGREED. children shouldn't die: AGREED. because they could be awesome when they grow up: AGREED. the president's children face active threats: AGREED. we can't afford, as a nation, armed security guards/police at every school: AGREED. it is impractical for all children to receive secret service protection: AGREED.
everything else in some vague squishy fashion: CLUSTERFUCK OF DISAGREEMENT BASED ON WHO THE HELL KNOWS WHAT.
There was an armed resource officer at Columbine: AGREED
Just so you're aware... the incident at Columbine set the tone for how schools have been designed today. Those two were able to just walk right in any door, carrying guns. I'm sure you've heard that Adam Lanza had to shoot his way through the doors at Sandy Hook. These policies/procedures/theories have to work together for an optimium result. If schools we being designed the way they were before Columbine - I will AGREE that an armed guard would be much less effective. If he were to be effective at all.