re: the president's kids being protected by guns

[thebamker]

This is irritating me so much.

#1 - this was a stupid argument to bring up in the first place.  The president and his family have always been under a heavy protection detail.  NRA, please shut up.

#2 - the retort is pissing me off just as much.  "The president's children are at greater risk...."

I completely agree.  They are.  They face a GREATER risk.  But as we learned a month ago - ALL of our children are at risk. 

What I can't understand is - if an armed guard situation is seen as an effective way to protect his children, why not ours?  Just because his children face a more likely threat, doesn't mean their lives are worth more or are more important than the rest of our kids.

This baffles my mind.  Either it works or it doesn't.  Which one is it?

[Deleted]

the president's children are under known, active threats daily. someone or someones wants them dead, every single fucking day of the year. every day. they are being protected against something tangible and real.

that is not the same thing as the vague general threat posed to your children and mine by living in a society where there are sick, sad people with access to weapons.

[hisno1girl]

Well, according to the asshole at the doctor's office last night, the POTUS is okay protecting his children, but not white children.

THANKS OBAMA!!!

lol

[eddy]

But can our nation afford to pay for well trained armed guards to protect all children? I mean repubs don't want higher taxes. This would certainly raise taxes.

I would be fine with well trained, not mall cop level, guards in schools. But I would not be okay with it if it took away from our very small educational resources.

we can't have our cake and eat it too.

[joenali]

I heard on the news last night it would cost approximately $80,000 for a school guard. Put one in each public school around the nation and it would cost millions of dollars.

[thebamker]

Jan 17, 2013 9:42:59 GMT -5 cville said:

the president's children are under known, active threats daily. someone or someones wants them dead, every single fucking day of the year. every day. they are being protected against something tangible and real.

that is not the same thing as the vague general threat posed to your children and mine by living in a society where there are sick, sad people with access to weapons.

It's interesting though b/c he made comments yesterday about if it even saves one life, it is worth doing.  I'm guessing guarded schools would save many lives.  They save his kids lives every single fucking day of the year.

[missyny]

Jan 17, 2013 9:43:44 GMT -5 hisno1girl said:

Well, according to the asshole at the doctor's office last night, the POTUS is okay protecting his children, but not white children.

THANKS OBAMA!!!

lol

Oh brother!

[cc]

Jan 17, 2013 9:46:45 GMT -5 joenali said:

I heard on the news last night it would cost approximately $80,000 for a school guard. Put one in each public school around the nation and it would cost millions of dollars.

Yeah, seeing as FL is probably getting rid of the arts at schools due to budget cuts, I don't see them being able to afford a school guard at each school.

[jaylea]

What can an armed guard do against someone with body armor and a semi-automatic weapon? I guess it's better then nothing, but a handgun wouldn't have stopped Lanza or the CO shooter due to their ballistics gear, right?

this is why I think Obama's plan actually presents some solutions to the issues behind these mass casualty events, even if people don't like it.

[kristie]

The secret service is effective. Armed guards are not the secret service. I am not convinced that armed guards are effective for protecting schools. But at least it is a better talking point than arming teachers.

[thebamker]

Jan 17, 2013 9:46:45 GMT -5 joenali said:

I heard on the news last night it would cost approximately $80,000 for a school guard. Put one in each public school around the nation and it would cost millions of dollars.

I love that is comes down to money when our government just blows money out their asses on completely useless junk all day long.

I guess it's a matter of priorities then. :^)

[hisno1girl]

Jan 17, 2013 9:49:13 GMT -5 cc said:

Jan 17, 2013 9:46:45 GMT -5 joenali said:

I heard on the news last night it would cost approximately $80,000 for a school guard. Put one in each public school around the nation and it would cost millions of dollars.

Yeah, seeing as FL is probably getting rid of the arts at schools due to budget cuts, I don't see them being able to afford a school guard at each school.

Does that $80K include increased liability insurance?

Guns in schools will never happen.  I don't know how they could ever afford to be insured in case of an accident and once lawsuit could potentially wipeout an entire school system.

[toepick]

The girls go to Sidwell Friends, a Quaker school. According to parents, there are school resource officers but they are not armed. Obviously they don't release information about current Secret Service protection, but when Chelsea Clinton went there, her Secret Service protection was not allowed in the school armed. So this whole NRA argument is false on its face.

[Deleted]

Jan 17, 2013 9:47:24 GMT -5 thebamker said:

Jan 17, 2013 9:42:59 GMT -5 cville said:

the president's children are under known, active threats daily. someone or someones wants them dead, every single fucking day of the year. every day. they are being protected against something tangible and real.

that is not the same thing as the vague general threat posed to your children and mine by living in a society where there are sick, sad people with access to weapons.

It's interesting though b/c he made comments yesterday about if it even saves one life, it is worth doing.  I'm guessing guarded schools would save many lives.  They save his kids lives every single fucking day of the year.

yes.  you're "guessing."  school shootings are not that common, really.  they are horrible, they are tragic, and they really just don't happen every day.  unlike, say, threats to sasha and malia. 

if there was an active threat to a school, there would be police there.  there simply aren't sufficient resources in the country to protect against "guesses", when we also have to protect against known and active threats.  let's say we get a guard in every school.  is that enough?  there is usually more than one point of entry for each school.  so, now we have to have a guard for every door.  and, well, classrooms on the ground floor.  so guards walking the perimeter to watch the windows.  oh, wait, and recess and outdoor sports.  okay.  guards on all of the sports fields.  ooohhh... and at the bus stops and blah blah.

all for the vague, uncommon possibility that maybe something could happen, we guess. 

[Captain Serious]

The president's children need protecting more than the average citizen's children because it is a matter of national security. If the president's children are taken hostage, it could put the president in a very difficult position in terms of negotiation. Losing a child while in office could also wreak havoc on his ability to lead effectively.

I hate to say it so simply, but the safety of the first children *is* more important than the safety of other children.

[penguingrrl]

The armed guards at the Obama girls schools are there for the Obama girls. Meaning that if shit started they would be whisking those girls out of there, not risking their lives protecting the general population.

Unless they're suggesting a SS agent for each kid in every school in America the first family will always have superior protection. They have a tangible threat facing them every day where our children statistically are in very little danger.

[thebamker]

Jan 17, 2013 9:49:27 GMT -5 jaylea said:

What can an armed guard do against someone with body armor and a semi-automatic weapon? I guess it's better then nothing, but a handgun wouldn't have stopped Lanza or the CO shooter due to their ballistics gear, right?

this is why I think Obama's plan actually presents some solutions to the issues behind these mass casualty events, even if people don't like it.

Adam Lanza wasn't wearing body armor.  This was yet another false statement that ran away with the spoon.

And I'm fine with Obama's plan.  I don't think it will work, but I don't think it will hurt anything either.  I just got a case of the sours when I heard his comments yesterday and then heard the WH explaination of why it's ok that his kids are protected by guns.

[speckledfrog]

Jan 17, 2013 9:49:27 GMT -5 jaylea said:

What can an armed guard do against someone with body armor and a semi-automatic weapon? I guess it's better then nothing, but a handgun wouldn't have stopped Lanza or the CO shooter due to their ballistics gear, right?

Agreed.  What about cases like Columbine where there were two shooters?  What if they came in a different entrance?

[luckyval]

Jan 17, 2013 9:51:25 GMT -5 AutumnRose25 said:

An armed guard can still be killed and unless you post one at every door and window, someone can still use other areas to access a school building.

However, if any guy off the street did not have access to military grade weapons, it would make it much harder for them to even carry out a huge attack........

Big ol' :Y:

I'm an advocate of dealing with the issue at the source. The idea of adding more guns only serves to multiply the potential for more accidents/incidents/deaths

[Deleted]

Jan 17, 2013 9:50:57 GMT -5 thebamker said:

Jan 17, 2013 9:46:45 GMT -5 joenali said:

I heard on the news last night it would cost approximately $80,000 for a school guard. Put one in each public school around the nation and it would cost millions of dollars.

I love that is comes down to money when our government just blows money out their asses on completely useless junk all day long.

I guess it's a matter of priorities then. :^)

yes. and is in massive debt, acrued over the last century.  you want china et al to own even more of our asses?

i'd love for there to be (non-gun) guards at schools, i think.  but the fact that there aren't such guards at all schools (i know my high school had a police officer) has a lot to do with divided sovereignty and people's general desire not to live in a police state, than it does with congressional pork.

[5thofjuly]

Jan 17, 2013 9:53:16 GMT -5 cville said:

Jan 17, 2013 9:47:24 GMT -5 thebamker said:

It's interesting though b/c he made comments yesterday about if it even saves one life, it is worth doing.  I'm guessing guarded schools would save many lives.  They save his kids lives every single fucking day of the year.

yes.  you're "guessing."  school shootings are not that common, really.  they are horrible, they are tragic, and they really just don't happen every day.  unlike, say, threats to sasha and malia. 

if there was an active threat to a school, there would be police there.  there simply aren't sufficient resources in the country to protect against "guesses", when we also have to protect against known and active threats.  let's say we get a guard in every school.  is that enough?  there is usually more than one point of entry for each school.  so, now we have to have a guard for every door.  and, well, classrooms on the ground floor.  so guards walking the perimeter to watch the windows.  oh, wait, and recess and outdoor sports.  okay.  guards on all of the sports fields.  ooohhh... and at the bus stops and blah blah.

all for the vague, uncommon possibility that maybe something could happen, we guess.  

But, but...this could be an awesome opportunity for job creation! Secret Service training for everyone on the unemployment line!

[Deleted]

Jan 17, 2013 9:49:27 GMT -5 jaylea said:

What can an armed guard do against someone with body armor and a semi-automatic weapon? I guess it's better then nothing, but a handgun wouldn't have stopped Lanza or the CO shooter due to their ballistics gear, right?

this is why I think Obama's plan actually presents some solutions to the issues behind these mass casualty events, even if people don't like it.

Yes, times infinity.

I absolutely do not believe putting more weapons in schools will make them safer, if just for the increase in statistical accident potential.

[thebamker]

Jan 17, 2013 9:53:16 GMT -5 cville said:

Jan 17, 2013 9:47:24 GMT -5 thebamker said:

It's interesting though b/c he made comments yesterday about if it even saves one life, it is worth doing.  I'm guessing guarded schools would save many lives.  They save his kids lives every single fucking day of the year.

yes.  you're "guessing."  school shootings are not that common, really.  they are horrible, they are tragic, and they really just don't happen every day.  unlike, say, threats to sasha and malia. 

if there was an active threat to a school, there would be police there.  there simply aren't sufficient resources in the country to protect against "guesses", when we also have to protect against known and active threats.  let's say we get a guard in every school.  is that enough?  there is usually more than one point of entry for each school.  so, now we have to have a guard for every door.  and, well, classrooms on the ground floor.  so guards walking the perimeter to watch the windows.  oh, wait, and recess and outdoor sports.  okay.  guards on all of the sports fields.  ooohhh... and at the bus stops and blah blah.

all for the vague, uncommon possibility that maybe something could happen, we guess. 

I believe the idea is that that it would detour people from the attempt in the first place. But I'm not sure.

Regardless - my point is not that I believe it's the answer and I'm heading over to storm capitol hill... I just felt like there was a very mixed message presented yesterday.  This post has turned into a conversation about funding.  Which is a real issue - no question, but that wasn't part of the conversation yesterday.  It was all 'whatever it takes to save even one life - we have to do it!'

[Jalapeñomel]

Jan 17, 2013 9:56:55 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

H and I have discussed this, because Tennessee is one of the states that is considering arming its teachers/principals, and/or spending money the state educational system does not have installing resource officers at all elementary schools.

We've elected to literally move out of state if this happens. I don't want guns in schools. Period. And I resent that the state legislature is willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars per school to put some asshole with a gun in the front office when they're unwilling to expend the same amount for music classes or art instruction.

I would move in a mutherfuckin' heartbeat, especially in Tennessee.  How very real and how very scary.

[Deleted]

Part of Obama's plan includes increased funds for school security. The particulars have yet to be laid out so we can't say whether or not guards will be added.

[toepick]

They were armed school resource officers at Columbine.

[Jalapeñomel]

Jan 17, 2013 9:56:55 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

H and I have discussed this, because Tennessee is one of the states that is considering arming its teachers/principals, and/or spending money the state educational system does not have installing resource officers at all elementary schools.

We've elected to literally move out of state if this happens. I don't want guns in schools. Period. And I resent that the state legislature is willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars per school to put some asshole with a gun in the front office when they're unwilling to expend the same amount for music classes or art instruction.

I would move in a mutherfuckin' heartbeat, especially in Tennessee.  How very real and how very scary.

[Deleted]

so, what's your point, bamker?

that the president shouldn't have expressed a desire not to see more children die because he's not also willing to remove the secret service detail from his own children and since we can't afford guards in every school?

[WOT?*]

Jan 17, 2013 9:56:55 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

H and I have discussed this, because Tennessee is one of the states that is considering arming its teachers/principals, and/or spending money the state educational system does not have installing resource officers at all elementary schools.

We've elected to literally move out of state if this happens. I don't want guns in schools. Period. And I resent that the state legislature is willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars per school to put some asshole with a gun in the front office when they're unwilling to expend the same amount for music classes or art instruction.

<object style="position: absolute; z-index: 1000;" id="plugin0" width="1" type="application/x-dgnria" height="1"><param name="tabId" value="{E9CECB46-B62D-4288-8A47-7788BF967A3D}"></object>Yay for "like" buttons.

[eddy]

My love for nugget grows daily. Just putting that out there.