The second worse shooting was done at V-Tech. So are we going to start posting a bunch of armed guards on college campuses? Or make the campus police start patrolling classrooms and buildings? Does Aurora mean we should have armed guards in the aisles at the movies? Where the fuck does it end, man?
This is the sentiment behind the concealed carry movement. I agree it is not feasible to put armed guards everywhere. The concealed carry license holders go through extensive background checks and gun safety knowledge/ accuracy exams before being issued a license. These people are then the invisible security in every day locations. Statistically, even the mere likelihood that there are armed (law-abiding) citizens in a certain area significantly decreases the chances that a mass shooting or armed robbery will occur.
I drive though parts of town that are decidely unsafe. My church is in one of the poorest parts of the city. I have never felt unsafe there.
I was forced to go to an event at my husband's gun club and seeing the outlines of handguns under every other person's shirt scared me shitless more than just about anything else. I was a nervous wreck the entire time. I refuse to go back there.
Every. Single. Person I know that has a CCW has made a specific point of unholstering their loaded weapon and showing it to me. Every. Single. One. Men, women, low income, high income, highly educated, no education.
Having taken courses in gun safety knowledge/exams does not mean they are smart, or responsible, or have the sack to make the right decision in a split second. Situations escalate in the blink of an eye and I'd prefer not to get accidentally blown away by someone who *thinks* I might be in danger.
The vast, vast majority is.There are anecdotes for every situation. Doesn't mean it happens often. For what it's worth, I would also support mental health screenings to rule out violent tendencies and more in-depth exams for CCDW permits. There are many CCDW permit holders and very few to virtually none become criminals. Further, if you are going to sneak a gun in somewhere and shoot someone, you are likely NOT going to go through the trouble of registering for CCDW first, since, you know, murder is pretty illegal anyway.
I want a hard statistic that says the "vast, vast majority" of people with CCPs are "wonderful, law-abiding citizens."
This is just Kansas, but I found an article that kind of addresses that.
"A Kansan with a concealed-carry permit charged with a crime while using a firearm.
Of the 51,078 permits that have been issued by the state since the law took effect in 2007, 44 permit holders have been charged with a crime while using a firearm through late October, according to records provided by the Kansas Attorney General’s Office.
That works out to one charge for every 1,161 permit holders, or 0.09 percent.
The numbers squeeze even tighter when you consider that of the 44 permit holders charged, 17 licenses have been revoked because they were convicted of a crime that disqualifies them from having a permit. Jacobs is among the 17 whose licenses are currently suspended, pending the outcome of their cases. The remaining 10 have had their licenses reinstated because either the charges were dismissed or they were convicted of lesser charges."
If you calculate people convicted who actually had their license revoked, you get 17/51078 = .00033, or .033% It's a very, very small number.
I would like to hide this here. My old boss wore one of those cop shoulder straps with a handgun in it under his blazer. He would find any way that he could to need to take his jacket off. 'Whew. Hot in here!' Jacket comes off. Weapon is exposed, big yawn, no ball scratch, sadly. I'd say, 'Oh, you're carrying a gun.'
'Oh. Yep. Almost forgot about that.' Long stare at me. I'd turn, and see the picture of him with his mouse of a wife practically hiding behind him in a turtleneck and ankle-length dress. He also had a Hillary Clinton nutcracker in his office.
Needless to say he was an asshole, and my least-favorite boss, ever.
I don't carry concealed hoping to save the world. I don't carry with the thought that one day I will save an entire movie theater. I carry because I may one day need to save myself. I support mental health counseling for permit-seekers, but in reality, it's not really all that practical because the lunatics that are going to shoot up a building and then kill themselves are not going to be interested in legally obtaining a firearm. I also think that not every person with depression or a mental illness/ disorder is violent. And I also believe that rational, law-abiding gun owners greatly outnumber the alternative. They just don't make the news.
No. They're going to find a way to take someone else's legally-obtained firearm, because there are so many hanging around. I believe in large part these mass shootings are a result of a perfect storm of illness and opportunity.
I remember when you were talking about getting a gun. I don't remember many people saying "NO DON'T DO IT!" Most responses were all "yes get one you need to feel safe, just take classes so you know how to use it" (I don't remember how long ago this was, so I could be forgetting the people against you buying a gun)
Yes there are idiots that have guns. Same as there are idiots who drive drunk, and kill people. Should alcohol be banned?
Let me know the last time there was a mass killing via Patron or Bud fucking Light.
I'm pretty sure more people have been killed because of drunk driving than mass shootings. (I'm obviously not trying to minimize peoples deaths - it's horrible no matter what the cause is)
Obviously having stricter laws helps, but that doesn't stop bad things from happening. I don't even really care about the banning of certain guns/accessories. I just think it's stupid for people to be all "NO GUNS AT ALL"
For the record, I am much more willing to have my tax dollars go towards armed guards in each school rather than some of the things my tax dollars DO go toward.
The guns used by Lanza and the CO shooter were legally obtained, were they not?
not by him.
This may be a false report, but I heard they were his mothers.
Which to me makes this as much her fault. I don't have a problem with people owning these guns but I do have a problem with people not storing them securely. I'm not sure if Lanza had known mental issues, but if I knew my child had these issues the first thing I would do would be get rid of the weapons or put them under like 5 security locks. (we do not own any guns so this point doesn't even matter)
I am so sick of the "crazy people who want to kill a bunch of people aren't legally obtaining firearms" argument. Because, yes, they are. They are stockpiling ammo they bought from the Internet, borrowing from their parents arsenal, walking down to the local walmart and making their own arsenal. I think it is something like 80% of mass killing firearms have been obtained legally. There isn't a sane person that can't tell me we shouldn't be doing more to keep guns out of these people's hands, and I don't mean by shooting them out with our own concealed handguns.
Let me know the last time there was a mass killing via Patron or Bud fucking Light.
I'm pretty sure more people have been killed because of drunk driving than mass shootings. (I'm obviously not trying to minimize peoples deaths - it's horrible no matter what the cause is)
Obviously having stricter laws helps, but that doesn't stop bad things from happening. I don't even really care about the banning of certain guns/accessories. I just think it's stupid for people to be all "NO GUNS AT ALL"
Over 900 people have been killed because of guns in he past month ALONE. And are you not aware of the dramatic decrease in car accidents/drunk driving as a result of stricter laws??
For the record, I am much more willing to have my tax dollars go towards armed guards in each school rather than some of the things my tax dollars DO go toward.
Please elaborate.
I mean, there is a lot of government spending I don't agree with. The one that stands out to me right now is we pay Congressman ridiculous salaries and I don't think they deserve it. You shouldn't have to call special session after special session to get your job done. But none of that is really relevant. i'm not a "no skittles for poor people" type if that's what you are getting at.
This may be a false report, but I heard they were his mothers.
Which to me makes this as much her fault. I don't have a problem with people owning these guns but I do have a problem with people not storing them securely. I'm not sure if Lanza had known mental issues, but if I knew my child had these issues the first thing I would do would be get rid of the weapons or put them under like 5 security locks. (we do not own any guns so this point doesn't even matter)
People who have guns for protection very often do not lock them, but keep them handy. If you have no children, and keep a gun in your nightstand, and the kid next door sneaks through your basement window at night and steals your gun and shoots up the neighborhood, is that then your fault?
Yes. They have these handy gun lockers that you can keep on your night stand and have to put a combo in to retrieve the gun. They don't take much longer to open that than it does to open a drawer and pull out the weapon.
I'm pretty sure more people have been killed because of drunk driving than mass shootings. (I'm obviously not trying to minimize peoples deaths - it's horrible no matter what the cause is)
Obviously having stricter laws helps, but that doesn't stop bad things from happening. I don't even really care about the banning of certain guns/accessories. I just think it's stupid for people to be all "NO GUNS AT ALL"
Over 900 people have been killed because of guns in he past month ALONE. And are you not aware of the dramatic decrease in car accidents/drunk driving as a result of stricter laws??
just curious - do they cite a suicide/accident/murder breakdown?
"A Kansan with a concealed-carry permit charged with a crime while using a firearm.
Of the 51,078 permits that have been issued by the state since the law took effect in 2007, 44 permit holders have been charged with a crime while using a firearm through late October, according to records provided by the Kansas Attorney General’s Office.
That works out to one charge for every 1,161 permit holders, or 0.09 percent.
The numbers squeeze even tighter when you consider that of the 44 permit holders charged, 17 licenses have been revoked because they were convicted of a crime that disqualifies them from having a permit. Jacobs is among the 17 whose licenses are currently suspended, pending the outcome of their cases. The remaining 10 have had their licenses reinstated because either the charges were dismissed or they were convicted of lesser charges."
If you calculate people convicted who actually had their license revoked, you get 17/51078 = .00033, or .033% It's a very, very small number.
Not being charged with a crime in Kansas does not mean the "vast, vast majority" of concealed-carry-permit holders are "wonderful". Or necessarily even law-abiding. It just means in Kansas, these people aren't using guns to commit crimes, or they're not being caught.
Sorry, I didn't know you wanted a statistic on how many crimes DON"T happen. Or how many crimes aren't counted. Very few people in general are "wonderful." I don't think I used that word.
I tend to agree with your "perfect storm" comment, but stealing a legally-obtained gun is still illegally obtaining a gun. It's my personal responsibility as a gun owner to make sure my guns are secure and NOT stolen. And yes, I do wish more gun owners were more vigilant about that.
The second worse shooting was done at V-Tech. So are we going to start posting a bunch of armed guards on college campuses? Or make the campus police start patrolling classrooms and buildings? Does Aurora mean we should have armed guards in the aisles at the movies? Where the fuck does it end, man?
No joke, but there is a movement at the university I work at where a group of students want the right to carry concealed weapons on campus. It will never happen, thank goodness.
Over 900 people have been killed because of guns in he past month ALONE. And are you not aware of the dramatic decrease in car accidents/drunk driving as a result of stricter laws??
just curious - do they cite a suicide/accident/murder breakdown?
I'm pretty sure more people have been killed because of drunk driving than mass shootings. (I'm obviously not trying to minimize peoples deaths - it's horrible no matter what the cause is)
Obviously having stricter laws helps, but that doesn't stop bad things from happening. I don't even really care about the banning of certain guns/accessories. I just think it's stupid for people to be all "NO GUNS AT ALL"
Over 900 people have been killed because of guns in he past month ALONE. And are you not aware of the dramatic decrease in car accidents/drunk driving as a result of stricter laws??
I mean, there is a lot of government spending I don't agree with. The one that stands out to me right now is we pay Congressman ridiculous salaries and I don't think they deserve it. You shouldn't have to call special session after special session to get your job done. But none of that is really relevant. i'm not a "no skittles for poor people" type if that's what you are getting at.
So because you don't like how much money a politician gets paid, we should not increase gun restrictions,and should just go ahead an put guns into our schools everyday?
You are the exact type of gun-nut that terrifies me more than anything else in this country.
That is an irrational leap. And insulting. I never said we shouldn't increase gun restrictions. in fact, I'm for it in many cases. But I feel the need to point out where some proposed gun restrictions are lacking in effectiveness. You being terrified of ME is being overly paranoid. Unless you try to rape or kill me, you are probably safe.
I like it when self-proclaimed responsible gun owners think that they should speak for the general public's ability to obtain a gun.
I really like that. Congrats, you haven't shot yourself in the foot because you're careful. Now, back to the several school shootings, not to mention my morning news lit up with gun-related crime. Tell me more about responsible gun ownership.
Not being charged with a crime in Kansas does not mean the "vast, vast majority" of concealed-carry-permit holders are "wonderful". Or necessarily even law-abiding. It just means in Kansas, these people aren't using guns to commit crimes, or they're not being caught.
Sorry, I didn't know you wanted a statistic on how many crimes DON"T happen. Or how many crimes aren't counted. Very few people in general are "wonderful." I don't think I used that word.
I tend to agree with your "perfect storm" comment, but stealing a legally-obtained gun is still illegally obtaining a gun. It's my personal responsibility as a gun owner to make sure my guns are secure and NOT stolen. And yes, I do wish more gun owners were more vigilant about that.
I would like to make it more than your personal responsibility. I would like to make you criminally and financially liable. I don't want to wish more gun owners were more vigilant, I want to make them suffer consequences when they are not.
Sorry, I didn't know you wanted a statistic on how many crimes DON"T happen. Or how many crimes aren't counted. Very few people in general are "wonderful." I don't think I used that word.
I tend to agree with your "perfect storm" comment, but stealing a legally-obtained gun is still illegally obtaining a gun. It's my personal responsibility as a gun owner to make sure my guns are secure and NOT stolen. And yes, I do wish more gun owners were more vigilant about that.
This is your post from January 9 about your own personal guns and how secure they are
***********
One stays in the drawer of the "mudroom" with our boots and jackets and such so if we go hiking we can take it with us. (on our property. we have had to mercifully put down an opossum that our dog mauled while hiking. We are also in a high coyote/ poisonous snake area and you just never know.) This is also the handgun we grab quickly if we have to investigate strange noises outside.
We each have one in our nightstand. We have a CA king bed and I wouldn't be able to get from one side to the other quickly in a home-invasion situation. This way, either of us could respond quickly.
The final one inside is in the other end of the house since the entry-way and bedrooms are on the same end. Therefore, i should never be trapped in either end of my house without access to a weapon.
We don't ever expect to use any of them. But where we live, the police are 20 to 40 minutes away, there is a huge meth problem, and most criminals have access to guns (sad truth). So I don't think i'm overly paranoid. I'm sorry, but in a seconds-count life-or-death situation, having to unlock your gun in one room and then travel to another room to unlock ammunition is not going to do you any good.
Your point? They are LOCKED in my house, no one in our community knows about them, and they are not visible or easily accessible. When we are gone longer than the work day, they are locked in a safe... They haven't been stolen yet.
This is your post from January 9 about your own personal guns and how secure they are
***********
One stays in the drawer of the "mudroom" with our boots and jackets and such so if we go hiking we can take it with us. (on our property. we have had to mercifully put down an opossum that our dog mauled while hiking. We are also in a high coyote/ poisonous snake area and you just never know.) This is also the handgun we grab quickly if we have to investigate strange noises outside.
We each have one in our nightstand. We have a CA king bed and I wouldn't be able to get from one side to the other quickly in a home-invasion situation. This way, either of us could respond quickly.
The final one inside is in the other end of the house since the entry-way and bedrooms are on the same end. Therefore, i should never be trapped in either end of my house without access to a weapon.
We don't ever expect to use any of them. But where we live, the police are 20 to 40 minutes away, there is a huge meth problem, and most criminals have access to guns (sad truth). So I don't think i'm overly paranoid. I'm sorry, but in a seconds-count life-or-death situation, having to unlock your gun in one room and then travel to another room to unlock ammunition is not going to do you any good.
Your point? They are LOCKED in my house, no one in our community knows about them, and they are not visible or easily accessible. When we are gone longer than the work day, they are locked in a safe... They haven't been stolen yet.
Except everyone on the internet who now knows where they are.