No, it's not law, but if you don't want to tip, don't go out to eat where someone serves you.
you hear that people of EVERY OTHER COUNTRY BUT U.S.? Shut the fuck up. People can tip or not tip and they don't need to have some mgr telling them not to come back. It's a GRATUITY. Look it up. It says something given without demand.
Is it rude, yes. But people can eat wherever they fucking want and tip whatever they want without having to choose a place that doesn't 'serve' them.
No, it's not law, but if you don't want to tip, don't go out to eat where someone serves you.
you hear that people of EVERY OTHER COUNTRY BUT U.S.? Shut the fuck up. People can tip or not tip and they don't need to have some mgr telling them not to come back. It's a GRATUITY. Look it up. It says something given without demand.
Is it rude, yes. But people can eat wherever they fucking want and tip whatever they want without having to choose a place that doesn't 'serve' them.
Geeze. Calm down.
I'm not sure about other countries, but in Europe, tipping is not expected because the servers are paid a higher wage. The minimum wage for servers in the US is much lower because it is expected that the difference will be made in tips.
“Life is not orderly. No matter how we try to make it so, right in the middle of it lose a leg, fall in love, drop a jar of applesauce.” - Natalie Goldberg
You're not telling me anything I don't already know. But to insinuate that non tippers or poor tippers don't get to eat out is absurd! Next up: profiling tippers!
You're not telling me anything I don't already know. But to insinuate that non tippers or poor tippers don't get to eat out is absurd! Next up: profiling tippers!
Profiling tippers already happens in the restaurant world. If you've been noted in a restaurant as being a poor or nonexistent tipper, your service will reflect that. Sad, but true.
You're not telling me anything I don't already know. But to insinuate that non tippers or poor tippers don't get to eat out is absurd! Next up: profiling tippers!
Profiling tippers already happens in the restaurant world. If you've been noted in a restaurant as being a poor or nonexistent tipper, your service will reflect that. Sad, but true.
“Life is not orderly. No matter how we try to make it so, right in the middle of it lose a leg, fall in love, drop a jar of applesauce.” - Natalie Goldberg
You're not telling me anything I don't already know. But to insinuate that non tippers or poor tippers don't get to eat out is absurd! Next up: profiling tippers!
Profiling tippers already happens in the restaurant world. If you've been noted in a restaurant as being a poor or nonexistent tipper, your service will reflect that. Sad, but true.
As the opposite is also true. Good tippers get better service.
Profiling tippers already happens in the restaurant world. If you've been noted in a restaurant as being a poor or nonexistent tipper, your service will reflect that. Sad, but true.
As the opposite is also true. Good tippers get better service.
Yup. Of course I'm going to go all out for the guy who tipped well when he won at the casino. I could tell by his order, too. So every fucking time he came, he got red carpet treatment.
The family of 12 who ordered expensive shit every Friday night, let their kids crumble crackers all over the place, and tipped 2% got the basics that my managers expected.
Servers would fight over sections because we knew every Friday night that the family would be coming in and only one section could fit them.
I thought it wasn't the pastor's server that got fired, but rather another waitress. The server showed the receipt to her friend, the friend took a pic and posted it online. That person got fired, not the actual server.
The fired waitress snapped a pic of the receipt from a friend. She violated privacy by posting it and was fired b/c of that, not the server who got screwed.
I thought it wasn't the pastor's server that got fired, but rather another waitress. The server showed the receipt to her friend, the friend took a pic and posted it online. That person got fired, not the actual server.
The fired waitress snapped a pic of the receipt from a friend. She violated privacy by posting it and was fired b/c of that, not the server who got screwed.
“Life is not orderly. No matter how we try to make it so, right in the middle of it lose a leg, fall in love, drop a jar of applesauce.” - Natalie Goldberg
You're not telling me anything I don't already know. But to insinuate that non tippers or poor tippers don't get to eat out is absurd! Next up: profiling tippers!
I think people who don't tip or who tip very poorly should not eat at full-service restaurants. I don't think there should be a national database or anything, but I wish they would choose to stay home.
DH used to manage a corporate restaurant. If someone failed to tip, he would ask them if they were unhappy with the service. (some people had legitimate complaints and the restaurant wanted to rectify it) If they indicated they liked the service but couldn't afford to tip, didn't like tipping, etc. he would politely tell them that the server deserved to be compensated for their work and if the guest didn't feel they could provide adequate compensation for good service then they were no longer welcome. It was company policy. This server is right in her interview: if you want good services from good servers you need to pay for it. DH's restaurant felt that keeping good servers was worth more than keeping a cheap ass customer. Granted, Applebee's tends to attract some really trashy clientele from what I've seen.
This surprises me. Though its rude to not tip, its also rude to confront customers about not tipping. What restaurant did he work at? The company policy says to tell customers not to return if they can't tip??
He worked for a high end corporate chain, Ruth Chris is maybe comparable?
Policy was: if a customer didn't tip you ask them if they were happy with the service. If they weren't happy with the service, manager needs to resolve the situation. If the customer simply states that they do not believe in tipping or cannot afford to tip, then yes, they are not welcome. Why would you want a customer who does not compensate your staff in lieu of a customer who does compensate staff? It never seemed to hurt business.
Tipping servers in a full service restaurant is not voluntary. They make less than minimum wage because it is expected that the customer will compensate the server directly. Customers know that they are expected to compensate the server directly. Unlike Europe, we are not charged a surcharge on our bill when we go out to eat. The prices of the food and drinks do not reflect the cost of service. It is clearly separate and distinguishable. By not tipping, people are clearly refusing to pay for a service they willingly and voluntarily received.
When you order something from home depot and they tell you its an extra $50 for delivery, do you ask them to deliver and then refuse to pay the $50? If someone comes to clean your house and tells you it is normally $125 for four hours, do you let her clean the house and then say, "tough cookies, I only have $5"? So why, in this one instance, is it ok to accept a service you know the cost of and then refuse to pay for it?
Why would you make use of a service that you know costs money, that you know you should pay for, if you have no intention of paying? The corporate restaurant is still making their money, the only person you're stiffing is the person who makes $2.50 per hour before tips and maybe $9 per hour after tips.
Post by Jalapeñomel on Feb 1, 2013 14:55:48 GMT -5
SPRINGS....WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU??
Not all servers make under minimum wage, technically if their tips and salary do not amount to minimum wage, the restaurant is supposed to cover that amount. At least this is my understanding. Tipping is not mandatory.
The only people who tip here are foreigners, mostly people from the US. There is a huge difference between the way we are treated at restaurants and the way Peruvians are treated. I will tip to get that sort of service; worth every dime to me.
maybe I'm confused because my formatting is all jacked up (so it's quite possible I'm misunderstanding the conversation here).
11d. Regardless of what a restaurant charges for drinks or food, they don't then turn around and hand that money to their wait/bar staff.
I was a server at two different restaurants for years making less than $2.50/hour. I lived on my tips.
So are you implying that it's a servers own problem if everyone suddenly decides that they don't need to tip?
So, let's say a couple goes out to eat and their bill is $20. You want to tell me that they can afford to pay for the gas to and from the restaurant as well as the food, but they can't afford the $2-4 tip ?
He worked for a high end corporate chain, Ruth Chris is maybe comparable?
Policy was: if a customer didn't tip you ask them if they were happy with the service. If they weren't happy with the service, manager needs to resolve the situation. If the customer simply states that they do not believe in tipping or cannot afford to tip, then yes, they are not welcome. Why would you want a customer who does not compensate your staff in lieu of a customer who does compensate staff? It never seemed to hurt business.
Tipping servers in a full service restaurant is not voluntary. They make less than minimum wage because it is expected that the customer will compensate the server directly. Customers know that they are expected to compensate the server directly. Unlike Europe, we are not charged a surcharge on our bill when we go out to eat. The prices of the food and drinks do not reflect the cost of service. It is clearly separate and distinguishable. By not tipping, people are clearly refusing to pay for a service they willingly and voluntarily received.
When you order something from home depot and they tell you its an extra $50 for delivery, do you ask them to deliver and then refuse to pay the $50? If someone comes to clean your house and tells you it is normally $125 for four hours, do you let her clean the house and then say, "tough cookies, I only have $5"? So why, in this one instance, is it ok to accept a service you know the cost of and then refuse to pay for it?
Why would you make use of a service that you know costs money, that you know you should pay for, if you have no intention of paying? The corporate restaurant is still making their money, the only person you're stiffing is the person who makes $2.50 per hour before tips and maybe $9 per hour after tips.
While the restaurant has the right to refuse service... this is ridiculous. Tipping IS voluntary. It is NOT mandatory. The food and drink prices INCLUDE the cost of service. Do you really think a martini costs $13 to make?
Do you think the restaurant goes and takes a percentage of its sales and gives it to the servers and bartenders as payment? When I was a server, I was paid $2.13/hour. That was the minimum wage for servers in the state I lived in. Servers have a lower minimum wage than other jobs because the difference is expected to be made up in tips.
If you want to go to Applebees, you should expect to tip your server. If you had bad service, that is different (I still wouldn't stiff someone), but don't go to a restaurant where you will be waited on with the mindset that you aren't going to leave a tip. I don't see how anyone would think that is okay.
ETA: That $2.13/hour pays the taxes on the tips that you make (because you have to claim your tips). Most servers get a check for a couple of dollars. They live off the tips.
“Life is not orderly. No matter how we try to make it so, right in the middle of it lose a leg, fall in love, drop a jar of applesauce.” - Natalie Goldberg
maybe I'm confused because my formatting is all jacked up (so it's quite possible I'm misunderstanding the conversation here).
11d. Regardless of what a restaurant charges for drinks or food, they don't then turn around and hand that money to their wait/bar staff.
I was a server at two different restaurants for years making less than $2.50/hour. I lived on my tips.
So are you implying that it's a servers own problem if everyone suddenly decides that they don't need to tip?
So, let's say a couple goes out to eat and their bill is $20. You want to tell me that they can afford to pay for the gas to and from the restaurant as well as the food, but they can't afford the $2-4 tip ?
maybe I'm confused because my formatting is all jacked up (so it's quite possible I'm misunderstanding the conversation here).
11d. Regardless of what a restaurant charges for drinks or food, they don't then turn around and hand that money to their wait/bar staff.
I was a server at two different restaurants for years making less than $2.50/hour. I lived on my tips.
So are you implying that it's a servers own problem if everyone suddenly decides that they don't need to tip?
So, let's say a couple goes out to eat and their bill is $20. You want to tell me that they can afford to pay for the gas to and from the restaurant as well as the food, but they can't afford the $2-4 tip ?
It is still not mandatory to tip.
No one is going to call the police if you don't tip. It's not a law, but it is expected.
“Life is not orderly. No matter how we try to make it so, right in the middle of it lose a leg, fall in love, drop a jar of applesauce.” - Natalie Goldberg
Do you think the restaurant goes and takes a percentage of its sales and gives it to the servers and bartenders as payment? When I was a server, I was paid $2.13/hour. That was the minimum wage for servers in the state I lived in. Servers have a lower minimum wage than other jobs because the difference is expected to be made up in tips.
If you want to go to Applebees, you should expect to tip your server. If you had bad service, that is different (I still wouldn't stiff someone), but don't go to a restaurant where you will be waited on with the mindset that you aren't going to leave a tip. I don't see how anyone would think that is okay.
ETA: That $2.13/hour pays the taxes on the tips that you make (because you have to claim your tips). Most servers get a check for a couple of dollars. They live off the tips.
A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.
Do you think the restaurant goes and takes a percentage of its sales and gives it to the servers and bartenders as payment? When I was a server, I was paid $2.13/hour. That was the minimum wage for servers in the state I lived in. Servers have a lower minimum wage than other jobs because the difference is expected to be made up in tips.
If you want to go to Applebees, you should expect to tip your server. If you had bad service, that is different (I still wouldn't stiff someone), but don't go to a restaurant where you will be waited on with the mindset that you aren't going to leave a tip. I don't see how anyone would think that is okay.
ETA: That $2.13/hour pays the taxes on the tips that you make (because you have to claim your tips). Most servers get a check for a couple of dollars. They live off the tips.
A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.
Yes, they can also then fire you. I worked in restaurants for years and never once had a server be compensated for not making minimum wage.
People are servers because they can make a lot of money. I'm not saying I didn't make above minimum wage. I'm saying that it is expected that you will be tipped when you are waiting on a table.
“Life is not orderly. No matter how we try to make it so, right in the middle of it lose a leg, fall in love, drop a jar of applesauce.” - Natalie Goldberg
11D is thinking with her Canadian brain, where servers make $10 an hour and it's customary to make 20% in tips. Gotta love America though. "Hey, here's an idea! Not only will we grant you the pleasure of eating here, you can pay the server's salary too!"
This $2.50/hr stuff is some bullshit. I actually didn't realize this. Good thing I tip like a Canadian.
“Life is not orderly. No matter how we try to make it so, right in the middle of it lose a leg, fall in love, drop a jar of applesauce.” - Natalie Goldberg
Post by Jalapeñomel on Feb 1, 2013 15:09:51 GMT -5
When I waited tables in California, I made minimum wage plus tips, so this is a state by state thing. Actually, I made more money waiting tables there then I do now as a teacher.
A waitress also has to tip out her bartender and runners at the end of the night. It's not just them who gets screwed, it can be everyone. The worst tipping I ever experienced was in Miami. It was awful.
I get that it is not mandatory, but I think if a patron has a problem with large party gratuity automatically added to the tab, you take that up with the manager, not the waitress.
A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. Many states, however, require higher direct wage amounts for tipped employees.
Yes, they can also then fire you. I worked in restaurants for years and never once had a server be compensated for not making minimum wage.
People are servers because they can make a lot of money. I'm not saying I didn't make above minimum wage. I'm saying that it is expected that you will be tipped when you are waiting on a table.
And all I am saying is that tipping is not mandatory. It sucks ass when someone doesn't tip, but I have never worked in a restaurant where a manager would EVER confront a customer for not tipping.
And I could care less what makes a person decide not to tip. It's discretionary and the server is taking that risk by accepting a job based on gratuity.
I asked once if it was wrong to tip less than 15-20% here in WA because servers make minimum wage or more, plus tips. In OH, people were paid $2.13, here they get paid at least state minimum, which is over $9/hr, the highest in the nation. I got reamed for being a cheapskate and not paying for the service I received. (Note to those I thought was cheap: I have never paid less than 15% in tips, and generally I'm in the 18-25% range. I must be a closet Canadian.)
maybe I'm confused because my formatting is all jacked up (so it's quite possible I'm misunderstanding the conversation here).
11d. Regardless of what a restaurant charges for drinks or food, they don't then turn around and hand that money to their wait/bar staff.
I was a server at two different restaurants for years making less than $2.50/hour. I lived on my tips.
So are you implying that it's a servers own problem if everyone suddenly decides that don't need to tip?
So, let's say a couple goes out to eat and their bill is $20. You want to tell me that they can afford to pay for the gas to and from the restaurant as well as the food, but they can't afford the $2-4 tip ?
Well, I think it's rude not to tip for GOOD service. BUT I do not think for a second the onus is on the patron to pay for the wages except through the bill. If you are willing to work for only a guaranteed $2.50/hour, well that's not smart. And yes, the money that is on those bills IS turned around and handed to pay wages to the staff as well as food costs, building rent, heat, hydro, etc.
It doesn't matter WHY the patron doesn't tip... the expectation that it's a necessity is just as rude.
Expecting to be compensated for work you performed is not rude.
The money from a $13 martini does go to pay rent, electricity, etc. It also goes to pay the servers $2.50 an hour. Which is less than the minimum wage that our society has adopted as appropriate minimum compensation for work performed. Clearly the customer is expected to pay 15-20% to compensate for services. The server expects it, the customer knows the server expects it. If you really don't believe in tipping/can't tip/ think a tip is a gift of some kind why not announce at the beginning of your meal that you don't tip and then allow yourself to receive whatever service the worker is willing to perform for no compensation. Allowing someone to provide you a service that you know is worth value, that you know the person expects value for, and receiving that service without providing any value is more than rude, its wrong.
I guess I am missing a link in your logic here...if failing to pay for services you received is perfectly acceptable, then why do any of us bother to pay our mechanics, electricians, lawyers or doctors? If servers should not expect to be compensated for the work they perform (not an easy job fwiw) then why should we expect to be served when we go out?
Just a customer is not technically required to tip, a restaurant is not technically required to serve a customer who does not tip, and a server is not technically required to provide service to someone who will not provide compensation.
I think everyone here knows that tipping is not "mandatory."
Of course you're taking a risk working a job where your income is based on tips. The reason people do it is because more often than not, it's worth it (in my experience, anyway).
I think this is hilarious, though, because when I was in Europe, the service was much worse. If I was getting paid $10/hour without the expectation of a tip, I probably wouldn't give two shits if I got your ramekin of Ranch dressing to you in a timely manner.
“Life is not orderly. No matter how we try to make it so, right in the middle of it lose a leg, fall in love, drop a jar of applesauce.” - Natalie Goldberg