Remember the pastor who didn't tip...

[chalupabatman]

Feb 1, 2013 15:12:42 GMT -5 angelaa73 said:

Customary =/= mandatory

And I could care less what makes a person decide not to tip. It's discretionary and the server is taking that risk by accepting a job based on gratuity.

I'm ok with all of this.  My point is that people who don't tip are using a service that they know deserves compensation.  If you don't want to provide compensation, don't use the service, or at the very least feel confident enough in your views to tell the person providing the service that you expect it to be free.

[SKP82]

Feb 1, 2013 15:16:05 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

Feb 1, 2013 15:01:03 GMT -5 11d said:

Well, I think it's rude not to tip for GOOD service. BUT I do not think for a second the onus is on the patron to pay for the wages except through the bill. If you are willing to work for only a guaranteed $2.50/hour, well that's not smart. And yes, the money that is on those bills IS turned around and handed to pay wages to the staff as well as food costs, building rent, heat, hydro, etc.

It doesn't matter WHY the patron doesn't tip... the expectation that it's a necessity is just as rude.

Expecting to be compensated for work you performed is not rude.

The money from a $13 martini does go to pay rent, electricity, etc.  It also goes to pay the servers $2.50 an hour.  Which is less than the minimum wage that our society has adopted as appropriate minimum compensation for work performed.  Clearly the customer is expected to pay 15-20% to compensate for services.  The server expects it, the customer knows the server expects it.  If you really don't believe in tipping/can't tip/ think a tip is a gift of some kind why not announce at the beginning of your meal that you don't tip and then allow yourself to receive whatever service the worker is willing to perform for no compensation.  Allowing someone to provide you a service that you know is worth value, that you know the person expects value for, and receiving that service without providing any value is more than rude, its wrong.

Picturing this situation made me LOL. 

[sparkythelawyer]

Feb 1, 2013 10:08:58 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

DH used to manage a corporate restaurant. If someone failed to tip, he would ask them if they were unhappy with the service. (some people had legitimate complaints and the restaurant wanted to rectify it) If they indicated they liked the service but couldn't afford to tip, didn't like tipping, etc. he would politely tell them that the server deserved to be compensated for their work and if the guest didn't feel they could provide adequate compensation for good service then they were no longer welcome. It was company policy. This server is right in her interview: if you want good services from good servers you need to pay for it. DH's restaurant felt that keeping good servers was worth more than keeping a cheap ass customer. Granted, Applebee's tends to attract some really trashy clientele from what I've seen.

Your husband sounds like a jerk. And if he felt his staff deserved better compensation he should have paid them more.

Now I can think of only two times in my life where I did not tip, and it was due to the servers treatment of us (as opposed to something like the kitchen being backed up) but if a restaurant manager ever spoke to me like that I would make sure my universe knew that place was one to avoid

its my phone!

[demelza]

My husband and I are both 27 both decent looking but we are both quiet personalities. We dress well, not fancy in any way but our clothes are clean and normal. Occasionally we get bad service at restaurants, for a while we were in a streak where the servers we had all were really lousy. I wonder if were are stereotyped as poor tippers? We are not poor tippers, pretty much always give 20%, we even have a hard time giving the lousy servers less than 20%. Is there any way to make the staff more comfortable giving you better service. Occasionally we order waters with our meals, but never share a meal or use coupons or anything like that.

[chalupabatman]

Feb 1, 2013 15:21:57 GMT -5 11d said:

I don't tip electricians, etc. I pay them to provide a service. When I go to a restaurant, I pay for the service through the food charges. The tip is a bonus and uncertain.

Having said that, I DO tip servers. I hate the EXPECTATION that it is MANDATORY when it isn't.

And yes a restaurant can refuse service to ANYONE for ANY reason.

Except in the U.S. your food charges do not include the value of the service and everyone who uses the service knows it.

[SKP82]

Feb 1, 2013 15:22:33 GMT -5 demelza said:

My husband and I are both 27 both decent looking but we are both quiet personalities. We dress well, not fancy in any way but our clothes are clean and normal. Occasionally we get bad service at restaurants, for a while we were in a streak where the servers we had all were really lousy. I wonder if were are stereotyped as poor tippers? We are not poor tippers, pretty much always give 20%, we even have a hard time giving the lousy servers less than 20%. Is there any way to make the staff more comfortable giving you better service. Occasionally we order waters with our meals, but never share a meal or use coupons or anything like that.

When I was a server, I gave everyone the best service I could unless I knew them to be terrible tippers.  So, if you've always tipped well, I doubt you are being targeted as a bad tipper.  You probably have just been going to restaurants with crappy service.

And servers don't mind when you use a coupon, but you should base your tip on the total before the coupon was used. 

[chalupabatman]

Feb 1, 2013 15:21:51 GMT -5 sparkythelawyer said:

Feb 1, 2013 10:08:58 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

DH used to manage a corporate restaurant. If someone failed to tip, he would ask them if they were unhappy with the service. (some people had legitimate complaints and the restaurant wanted to rectify it) If they indicated they liked the service but couldn't afford to tip, didn't like tipping, etc. he would politely tell them that the server deserved to be compensated for their work and if the guest didn't feel they could provide adequate compensation for good service then they were no longer welcome. It was company policy. This server is right in her interview: if you want good services from good servers you need to pay for it. DH's restaurant felt that keeping good servers was worth more than keeping a cheap ass customer. Granted, Applebee's tends to attract some really trashy clientele from what I've seen.

Your husband sounds like a jerk. And if he felt his staff deserved better compensation he should have paid them more.

Now I can think of only two times in my life where I did not tip, and it was due to the servers treatment of us (as opposed to something like the kitchen being backed up) but if a restaurant manager ever spoke to me like that I would make sure my universe knew that place was one to avoid

its my phone!

Um thanks?  I said he was the manager, not the owner, he didn't get to determine compensation.  He actually ran another place that had a system of dividing tips to make sure people didn't get screwed over.

I said that he would stop people to make sure the reason they stiffed the server wasn't that they had a bad experience.  The restaurant wanted to know if people had a bad experience so they could remedy the situation and encourage people to come back.

You would be amazed at the reasons people give for not tipping.  It comes down to people like the woman in the article, who didn't care that they were taking advantage of someone else but thought they wouldn't get caught.  It's like the asshole in the breakroom who eats other people's yogurts knowing they aren't his but thinking no one else will notice.

If a restaurant requires their servers to go through training, learn extensive food information, perform their work with a high level of attentiveness, etc. and values having knowledgeable, well trained staff, then of course they won't welcome non tipping guests.  If you're on an hour wait and a server normally makes $20 off of a table, why wouldn't you give them a table that will tip $20 over a table that will tip $0?

[margotmacomber]

I'm just popping in to say that when I was a server in college, we ALL profiled tippers.  The shitty tippers got really shitty service.  They were last in any rotation regarding food, refills, or extra service.  Yeah, it's not a law that you have to tip.  But if you don't tip, for whatever reason--enjoy your crappy dining experience.  It's pretty trashy to not tip if you received good service.  It makes you look all honey boo boo.  If that's your cup of tea, go ahead and drink it.

*This is a rant not for MLers but the general population

[SKP82]

Feb 1, 2013 15:32:38 GMT -5 margotmacomber said:

I'm just popping in to say that when I was a server in college, we ALL profiled tippers.  The shitty tippers got really shitty service.  They were last in any rotation regarding food, refills, or extra service.  Yeah, it's not a law that you have to tip.  But if you don't tip, for whatever reason--enjoy your crappy dining experience.  It's pretty trashy to not tip if you received good service.  It makes you look all honey boo boo.  If that's your cup of tea, go ahead and drink it.

*This is a rant not for MLers but the general population

This made me LOL. 

[chalupabatman]

Feb 1, 2013 15:24:57 GMT -5 11d said:

Feb 1, 2013 15:23:44 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

Except in the U.S. your food charges do not include the value of the service and everyone who uses the service knows it.

VALUE IS DISCRETIONARY. Holy hell.

That's the thing though:  people who don't tip usually do it because, like this woman, they think they can get away with it.  Its not that they don't value the service or don't want to use the service.  They know it has value, they just want to get away with not providing the value.

It never bothered me when Europeans didn't tip.  I understood that they valued my service but didn't realize they hadn't already paid for it.  It also doesn't bother me when older people don't tip on the amount of their check that is wine. 

If people don't value being waited on and don't want to provide compensation for it, either don't go to full service restaurants or tell your server ahead of time that you only believe in tipping 5%  The problem here is people who take advantage of the system to get good service and then don't want to pay for it.

[eb777888]

So what gets you profiled as a shitty tipper?

[SKP82]

Feb 1, 2013 15:40:15 GMT -5 eb777888 said:

So what gets you profiled as a shitty tipper?

Tipping shittily.

ETA:  If you go somewhere regularly and never tip well, you will be known in that restaurant as a crappy tipper.  At one restaurant I worked at, there was a party of 4 adults who would come in all the time, run the server all over the place, and then tip like 10%.  Every time they walked in, the servers would threaten death upon the hostess if she sat them in their section.

[eb777888]

Oh, okay. So it's only repeat customers. Gotcha.

I remember when I was a hostess one waiter never wanted the Sunday church people because he said they don't tip. I was thinking it was something along those lines.

[sparkythelawyer]

Feb 1, 2013 15:40:15 GMT -5 eb777888 said:

So what gets you profiled as a shitty tipper?

Would this be the time to ask what it means to be "Canadian" in a US restaurant?
its my phone!

[margotmacomber]

For us it was repeat offenders.  It was a smaller diner/bar in Cincinnati that had a lot of consistent customers.  Believe me, we remembered and made sure to share with each other who was guilty.

[chalupabatman]

I think this has to be a cultural thing: My experience in the US has been that people who do not tip are shady anyway; and they usually don't tip knowing that it will stiff you but hoping they will get away with it because it saves them $10. They want to use the service, they don't want to pay for it. If you get crappy service, by all means, don't pay for it. But also tell the manager you had crappy service! When you sit at a table for two hours and don't tip, you've taken up a space that could have been used by someone who would tip. You're costing that server money.

IDK what gets you profiled as a shitty tipper. Most corporate places have requirements on how long before you have to greet, how long before the food has to be there, etc. so everyone gets pretty standard service. But if people ask me for water with lemon and sugar packets on the side (to make free white trash lemonade) then I assume they're not tipping.

I am all for people tipping proportionately for service, only going places they are treated well, etc. etc. But people stiff servers just because they can and that's messed up.

[eb777888]

Feb 1, 2013 15:41:13 GMT -5 SKP82 said:

Feb 1, 2013 15:40:15 GMT -5 eb777888 said:

So what gets you profiled as a shitty tipper?

Tipping shittily.

ETA:  If you go somewhere regularly and never tip well, you will be known in that restaurant as a crappy tipper.  At one restaurant I worked at, there was a party of 4 adults who would come in all the time, run the server all over the place, and then tip like 10%.  Every time they walked in, the servers would threaten death upon the hostess if she sat them in their section.

Haha!

Me and H are really good tippers and go to mainly the same restaurants. We get really good service, it's never an issue. I wonder if waiters talk to each other, maybe (like "hey, good tippers..")? At our sushi place, our waiter always greets us personally at the door and guides us to his section, lol.

[SKP82]

Feb 1, 2013 15:45:42 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

I think this has to be a cultural thing: My experience in the US has been that people who do not tip are shady anyway; and they usually don't tip knowing that it will stiff you but hoping they will get away with it because it saves them $10. They want to use the service, they don't want to pay for it. If you get crappy service, by all means, don't pay for it. But also tell the manager you had crappy service! When you sit at a table for two hours and don't tip, you've taken up a space that could have been used by someone who would tip. You're costing that server money.

IDK what gets you profiled as a shitty tipper. Most corporate places have requirements on how long before you have to greet, how long before the food has to be there, etc. so everyone gets pretty standard service. But if people ask me for water with lemon and sugar packets on the side (to make free white trash lemonade) then I assume they're not tipping.

I am all for people tipping proportionately for service, only going places they are treated well, etc. etc. But people stiff servers just because they can and that's messed up.

Oh, yes.  I've also had couples order one soda and share it (free refills!).

[SKP82]

Feb 1, 2013 15:47:34 GMT -5 eb777888 said:

Feb 1, 2013 15:41:13 GMT -5 SKP82 said:

Tipping shittily.

ETA:  If you go somewhere regularly and never tip well, you will be known in that restaurant as a crappy tipper.  At one restaurant I worked at, there was a party of 4 adults who would come in all the time, run the server all over the place, and then tip like 10%.  Every time they walked in, the servers would threaten death upon the hostess if she sat them in their section.

Haha!

Me and H are really good tippers and go to mainly the same restaurants. We get really good service, it's never an issue. I wonder if waiters talk to each other, maybe (like "hey, good tippers..")? At our sushi place, our waiter always greets us personally at the door and guides us to his section, lol.

Yep.  If you tip well, servers want you at their table.  And they know who the good tippers are just like they know who the shitty ones are.

[chalupabatman]

Agree with 11D, our system is completely messed up. I think it also contributes to getting crummy service in a lot of restaurants; a lot of servers have horrible attitudes.

[margotmacomber]

Feb 1, 2013 15:47:07 GMT -5 11d said:

Feb 1, 2013 15:43:09 GMT -5 sparkythelawyer said:

Would this be the time to ask what it means to be "Canadian" in a US restaurant?
its my phone!

Oh we tip. We also pay our servers better. Although in Canada people who serve liquor start lower, it's not that much lower. $1.25/hour lower than minimum wage. Our minimum wage is currently $10.25/hr in BC.

I can't believe the root of the problem in the US is the shitty tippers. When really, it's the shitty minimum wage reduction for servers and the owners of the restaurants.

Well, yeah 11d.  But I don't think it's at the top of anyone's to do list to campaign for better wages for servers.  You KNOW they are depending on your tips to live.  You KNOW they served you your food and drinks and got napkins and ranch dressing and whatever the hell else.  And if you choose to not give two fucks about it and don't tip because you don't want to spend the money, you are being a dick.

[eb777888]

OMG, my IL's do the lemon/sugar/water thing. lol I'm like "get a fucking soda. I WILL PAY FOR IT."

[chalupabatman]

Feb 1, 2013 15:47:34 GMT -5 eb777888 said:

Feb 1, 2013 15:41:13 GMT -5 SKP82 said:

Tipping shittily.

ETA:  If you go somewhere regularly and never tip well, you will be known in that restaurant as a crappy tipper.  At one restaurant I worked at, there was a party of 4 adults who would come in all the time, run the server all over the place, and then tip like 10%.  Every time they walked in, the servers would threaten death upon the hostess if she sat them in their section.

Haha!

Me and H are really good tippers and go to mainly the same restaurants. We get really good service, it's never an issue. I wonder if waiters talk to each other, maybe (like "hey, good tippers..")? At our sushi place, our waiter always greets us personally at the door and guides us to his section, lol.

He likes you : )  Overall, I just prefer people who are nice and don't treat servers like dirt.  If you tip 18% and are nice, I would rather have you than someone who tips 22% and treats me like dirt.

[peanut2202]

Feb 1, 2013 15:47:07 GMT -5 11d said:

Feb 1, 2013 15:43:09 GMT -5 sparkythelawyer said:

Would this be the time to ask what it means to be "Canadian" in a US restaurant?
its my phone!

Oh we tip. We also pay our servers better. Although in Canada people who serve liquor start lower, it's not that much lower. $1.25/hour lower than minimum wage. Our minimum wage is currently $10.25/hr in BC.

I can't believe the root of the problem in the US is the shitty tippers. When really, it's the shitty minimum wage reduction for servers and the owners of the restaurants.

11d, for what it's worth....in the States, when servers call diners "Canadians" it's most likely not because they are actually Canadian.

Sparky, that's treading on rocky ground though because where I worked a lot of my coworkers called tables "Canadians" to be racist and not to infer that they were poor tippers

[SKP82]

Feb 1, 2013 15:51:19 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

Feb 1, 2013 15:47:34 GMT -5 eb777888 said:

Haha!

Me and H are really good tippers and go to mainly the same restaurants. We get really good service, it's never an issue. I wonder if waiters talk to each other, maybe (like "hey, good tippers..")? At our sushi place, our waiter always greets us personally at the door and guides us to his section, lol.

He likes you : )  Overall, I just prefer people who are nice and don't treat servers like dirt.  If you tip 18% and are nice, I would rather have you than someone who tips 22% and treats me like dirt.

This is also true. 

[SKP82]

Feb 1, 2013 15:43:09 GMT -5 sparkythelawyer said:

Feb 1, 2013 15:40:15 GMT -5 eb777888 said:

So what gets you profiled as a shitty tipper?

Would this be the time to ask what it means to be "Canadian" in a US restaurant?
its my phone!

I don't know where it comes from, but some servers refer to black people as "Canadians" in restaurants.  I don't know if this is the case everywhere, but where I lived in SC, black people were stereotyped as being poor tippers.

[eb777888]

Feb 1, 2013 15:57:07 GMT -5 SKP82 said:

Feb 1, 2013 15:43:09 GMT -5 sparkythelawyer said:

Would this be the time to ask what it means to be "Canadian" in a US restaurant?
its my phone!

I don't know where it comes from, but some servers refer to black people as "Canadians" in restaurants.  I don't know if this is the case everywhere, but where I lived in SC, black people were stereotyped as being poor tippers.

Oh, yeah, here too. I just remembered waiters talking about this back when I was a hostess. I was very  . 

[cleo29]

I did have a man from a foreign country ask me how to work out the tip because he did not want to offend me and tipping is not something that is usually done in his country. I was touched and I didn't gouge him either, I think I did 15%.

My all time low in tips was making $8 and I still had to tip out my runners and bar. It was not a good night for Cleo. lol

[vampsterdam]

I still don't know why the ordering only water makes you cheap. I don't like pop and I'm picky with my cocktails. Plus, I'd rather get dessert

When I was living in Spain, and I had a super annoying girl at my lunch table outside. It was about 2 waiters for 30-something tables. She starts rantingto the waiter, "HELLO! OVER HERE! EL CHEQUE (not the word for check in Spain, btw) POR FAVOR! Ugh. This doesn't happen in America!!!"

I get when eating abroad in other countries, it can be frustrating because it feels like you're being ignored. HOWEVER, it will say I enjoy that they don't try to rush you out of the restaurant either. I loathe when you're not even close to finishing your dinner, then the waiter comes by with a check and says in a phony voice, "I'll just leave this here. No rush, really." And they didn't even ask if I want dessert!

[eb777888]

Feb 1, 2013 16:01:46 GMT -5 cleo29 said:

I did have a man from a foreign country ask me how to work out the tip because he did not want to offend me and tipping is not something that is usually done in his country. I was touched and I didn't gouge him either, I think I did 15%.

My all time low in tips was making $8 and I still had to tip out my runners and bar. It was not a good night for Cleo. lol

I remember a waiter on his first night was -$2 after he tipped out. I felt so bad for that guy.