She was waved through by Canada and stopped by the US, then waited several hours at the border (the US side). And yeah, they question people's stories if something doesn't seem credible. This isn't the part of the story that doesn't make sense.
Right, but the dude she was meeting was the one being questioned. So how did Mr Border Patrol come to be looking him up? Idle curiosity?
I was the one being questioned. And he asked me a tons of questions about who I was going to see. And I guess the border guard looked him up. I don't see how this doesn't make sense.
Is it normal for border police to drill you about the person your going to see? What if youre not going to see anyone? Why wouldnt they just be drilling you?
EXACTLY! This is my #1 question.
It makes perfect sense to me to question who you're visiting. What if they are a known terrorist or a person on the most wanted list. I've never crossed the boarder but this seems like something normal they would ask about.
It makes sense to do a general look up, maybe, on the person your going to see. Make sure they aren't on the wanted list or something. It doesn't make sense( or seem legal) to dig in and relay all that information to another person. It also doesn't make sense that the reason for job loss would be in a "file".
I don't really know you or frequent this board that much, but to go from Detroit to Muskegon is way longer than 40 minutes. It's about a 3 - 3 1/2 hour drive. I don't know what this guy told you, but I'm glad you didn't meet him. He sounds creepy.
It's 40 minutes from Muskegon to his cottage. Not from Detroit to Muskegon.
Is it normal for border police to drill you about the person your going to see? What if youre not going to see anyone? Why wouldnt they just be drilling you?
Yes, they ask the nature of your plans. What you'll be doing, where you'll be staying, who you are staying with, how often you visit, how long you'll be staying, etc. They want to make sure people have definitive plans that can be backed up with proof if necessary. It's their job to make sure people are who they say they are and have legitimate business in crossing the border. Hence, his concern that she might be coming into the US and not returning.
Look, I am DYING to know what this guy did. Will you please just google him and see what comes up? Do one of those online background checks that shows all criminal records and traffic tickets.
Do you know a reputable site that will do this? I'm willing to pay.
Is it normal for border police to drill you about the person your going to see? What if youre not going to see anyone? Why wouldnt they just be drilling you?
Yes, they ask the nature of your plans. What you'll be doing, where you'll be staying, who you are staying with, how often you visit, how long you'll be staying, etc. They want to make sure people have definitive plans that can be backed up with proof if necessary. It's their job to make sure people are who they say they are and have legitimate business in crossing the border. Hence, his concern that she might be coming into the US and not returning.
Right, and all those questions are about her. Not lawyer man.
Right, but the dude she was meeting was the one being questioned. So how did Mr Border Patrol come to be looking him up? Idle curiosity?
I was the one being questioned. And he asked me a tons of questions about who I was going to see. And I guess the border guard looked him up. I don't see how this doesn't make sense.
Let's say his name is Joe Shmoe. Is he the only Joe Shmoe in the US? Or do you have his SSN? Passport number? A picture of a tattoo on his ass that the FBI might have on file?
Anything?
Because there are over 300 million people in that country. Unless he was fired from his job for committing a crime, EVEN if they found the right Joe Shmoe, that information isn't going to be in his file. If he did commit a crime, that should be information you should be able to get. What it sounds like is that you told border guard that Lawyer Guy was laid off and he made a snide comment about lawyers not getting laid off, only fired (which is false, firms lay off lawyers all the time, especially in this economy), and you interpreted it to mean that all of the panicky people were right and he really was going to make you into a skin suit.
Yes, they ask the nature of your plans. What you'll be doing, where you'll be staying, who you are staying with, how often you visit, how long you'll be staying, etc. They want to make sure people have definitive plans that can be backed up with proof if necessary. It's their job to make sure people are who they say they are and have legitimate business in crossing the border. Hence, his concern that she might be coming into the US and not returning.
Right, and all those questions are about her. Not lawyer man.
They asked who I was visiting. Name, address, phone number, etc... They were going to call him. Those are questions about lawyer man.
Either you believe me or you don't, but I don't see what happened at the border as being THAT weird. They wanted to know who I was visiting.
Yes, they ask the nature of your plans. What you'll be doing, where you'll be staying, who you are staying with, how often you visit, how long you'll be staying, etc. They want to make sure people have definitive plans that can be backed up with proof if necessary. It's their job to make sure people are who they say they are and have legitimate business in crossing the border. Hence, his concern that she might be coming into the US and not returning.
Right, and all those questions are about her. Not lawyer man.
Nope - when asking the nature of the visit, they can very easily ask who she is staying with (see: "who you are staying with"). Someone that is chatty might start by saying he or she is going to visit a friend, the border patrol can then just ask more questions to expound on that.
I was the one being questioned. And he asked me a tons of questions about who I was going to see. And I guess the border guard looked him up. I don't see how this doesn't make sense.
Let's say his name is Joe Shmoe. Is he the only Joe Shmoe in the US? Or do you have his SSN? Passport number? A picture of a tattoo on his ass that the FBI might have on file?
Anything?
Because there are over 300 million people in that country. Unless he was fired from his job for committing a crime, EVEN if they found the right Joe Shmoe, that information isn't going to be in his file. If he did commit a crime, that should be information you should be able to get. What it sounds like is that you told border guard that Lawyer Guy was laid off and he made a snide comment about lawyers not getting laid off, only fired (which is false, firms lay off lawyers all the time, especially in this economy), and you interpreted it to mean that all of the panicky people were right and he really was going to make you into a skin suit.
Let's say his name is Joe Shmoe. Is he the only Joe Shmoe in the US? Or do you have his SSN? Passport number? A picture of a tattoo on his ass that the FBI might have on file?
Anything?
Because there are over 300 million people in that country. Unless he was fired from his job for committing a crime, EVEN if they found the right Joe Shmoe, that information isn't going to be in his file. If he did commit a crime, that should be information you should be able to get. What it sounds like is that you told border guard that Lawyer Guy was laid off and he made a snide comment about lawyers not getting laid off, only fired (which is false, firms lay off lawyers all the time, especially in this economy), and you interpreted it to mean that all of the panicky people were right and he really was going to make you into a skin suit.
I gave his first, middle and last names. I gave them his cottage and home address, as well as his cottage phone number and cell phone number.
Look, I am DYING to know what this guy did. Will you please just google him and see what comes up? Do one of those online background checks that shows all criminal records and traffic tickets.
Do you know a reputable site that will do this? I'm willing to pay.
I used one when we started getting letters from some dude in prison to an old tenant who hadn't lived in our townhome in years. I'm nosy and weird, so I looked him up. I don't remember the name of the site, but it was one of the first ones Googled, and it cost like $15 bucks. I'd say that's a sound investment considering what you went through already. Plus, I want to know!
Right, and all those questions are about her. Not lawyer man.
Nope - when asking the nature of the visit, they can very easily ask who she is staying with (see: "who you are staying with"). Someone that is chatty might start by saying he or she is going to visit a friend, the border patrol can then just ask more questions to expound on that.
Sure they can. And like I said, they can even run a background check. But job loss wouldn't show up on it, and really even if he was criminal fresh out of jail, it has no bearing on her crossing the border or not. Which they clearer her to go, so...
Is it normal for border police to drill you about the person your going to see? What if youre not going to see anyone? Why wouldnt they just be drilling you?
It seems normal to me. If she couldn't answer questions she should be able to, it would make him story suspect.
I don't get why the BP asked if he'd ever been fired. That's a really weird question, and I imagine that somewhere in America, a lawyer or two has been laid off.
Onto the file, yes, it's a record. Any criminal activity, dmv info etc. is going to be there. No, BP probably wouldn't/couldn't say anything. Yes, BP would have listend to her sketchy story and been concerned for her. I don't believe there was anything bad on the guys file. I think the BP agent was concerned about her meeting a virtual stranger at a cottage in remote Michigan.
Post by snipsnsnails on Jun 4, 2012 15:09:32 GMT -5
studytime - i didn't meant to imply that you shouldn't have been forthcoming with the border patrol. They have access to a great database and authority. He would've pursued a strong line of questioning, no matter what. You were a young women traveling alone by bus into the U.S. without professional business or family. That this would pique their interest is not surprising to me in the slightest.
Is it normal for border police to drill you about the person your going to see? What if youre not going to see anyone? Why wouldnt they just be drilling you?
It seems normal to me. If she couldn't answer questions she should be able to, it would make him story suspect.
I don't get why the BP asked if he'd ever been fired. That's a really weird question, and I imagine that somewhere in America, a lawyer or two has been laid off.
Onto the file, yes, it's a record. Any criminal activity, dmv info etc. is going to be there. No, BP probably wouldn't/couldn't say anything. Yes, BP would have listend to her sketchy story and been concerned for her. I don't believe there was anything bad on the guys file. I think the BP agent was concerned about her meeting a virtual stranger at a cottage in remote Michigan.
This I can see. I also imagine reacting poorly and telling someone where to shove it if they told me I was a criminal/ liar etc. of course, the actual email hasn't been provided and by now it'd be easy enough to have written something so...
Right, and all those questions are about her. Not lawyer man.
Nope - when asking the nature of the visit, they can very easily ask who she is staying with (see: "who you are staying with"). Someone that is chatty might start by saying he or she is going to visit a friend, the border patrol can then just ask more questions to expound on that.
This exactly. Even the customs form you have to fill out asks the address of where you are staying, nature of your visit, etc. I'm not sure where the confusion is about her being asked who she is staying with.
And I'm on the boat where if border patrol is asking me questions, I'm answering, no matter how strange the questions may seem.
OP, VERY glad to hear you are ok. And I'm very glad you had a nosy border patrol officer.
It seems normal to me. If she couldn't answer questions she should be able to, it would make him story suspect.
I don't get why the BP asked if he'd ever been fired. That's a really weird question, and I imagine that somewhere in America, a lawyer or two has been laid off.
Onto the file, yes, it's a record. Any criminal activity, dmv info etc. is going to be there. No, BP probably wouldn't/couldn't say anything. Yes, BP would have listend to her sketchy story and been concerned for her. I don't believe there was anything bad on the guys file. I think the BP agent was concerned about her meeting a virtual stranger at a cottage in remote Michigan.
This I can see. I also imagine reacting poorly and telling someone where to shove it if they told me I was a criminal/ liar etc. of course, the actual email hasn't been provided and by now it'd be easy enough to have written something so...
It makes sense to do a general look up, maybe, on the person your going to see. Make sure they aren't on the wanted list or something. It doesn't make sense( or seem legal) to dig in and relay all that information to another person. It also doesn't make sense that the reason for job loss would be in a "file".
I'm assuming whatever he did involved his job and came up on the general search.
I doubt it said, welp, so and so got fired for this mundane reason and not laid off like it said. What it probably said is Lawyer dude was convicted of doing stuff that typically gets lawyers fired.
Do you know where he was practicing law/what city he was living in? You can still use trusty Google for information on the person - and sometimes arrest information comes up...
Post by snipsnsnails on Jun 4, 2012 15:18:33 GMT -5
HouseGeek, I'm having a hard time following your train of thought. What exactly do you think is improbable? I know our Border Patrol has gotten some flak over the years, but they are still a federal agency with increasing access to relevant databases and information. It's not just a guy with a lot of time to Google, ya know? And also, lemondrop is right, whether or not there was something on file, he could have just had legitimate concern for a girl going into another country meeting a man she's never met before.
I'm having trouble finding CA's public records, the closest I can find is this site but I can't find a search function, so you might have to use something else that you pay for. oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/pra
Hmmmmm. Very strange situation. I will say that his statement about lawyers not getting laid off may have been mostly true in the past, but the past few years have been very unkind to the legal job market and tons of lawyers did get laid off.
But LA lawyer's responses to you were still weird. I'm glad you aren't a skinsuit.
Do you know where he was practicing law/what city he was living in? You can still use trusty Google for information on the person - and sometimes arrest information comes up...
Yes, I do. Google has returned no information.
Have you looked on the California bar website to see if his license is still active? If he was fired for doing something illegal, it is likely there would be disciplinary actions against him and those may be public record