I feel our bedtime woes will never end

[creamsiclechica]

Seriously, we're still in the depths of bedtime hell.  Right now, it's quarter to 11, and A is screaming at the top of her lungs in her room, WHILE MATT'S HOLDING HER.  We haven't done cry it out, because I just can't.  But I'm starting to get really worried we'll never have a good sleep situation, especially with a newborn on the way in such a short time.  Things have been a little crazy for us, with the long trip back home, and then we had a family member here to visit this past week, but even before that, with strict routine, we're not even close to going to bed at a decent hour or STTN.

We still average 4 wake ups overnight.  And bedsharing is getting hard ya'll.  She's kicking me and pulling me all.night.long.  She has to be lying on me, next to me, etc.

I've been weighing the idea of toddler bed transition, so one of us can go in and lay with her until she's asleep and then exit.  Thoughts?  Any MOOK's that can let me know how bad/hard things are with a nonsleeping toddler plus newborn, it'd be awesome.  I'm looking at you, joyhart02, because I know you've said L hasn't been the best sleeper either.  And Dorothy Zbornak, how did you manage bedsharing with H while you were pregnant?  Any tips on that?  I'm not opposed to bedsharing, it's just getting really painful, you know?

Sorry I'm always whining about sleep, but I'm at such a loss.

[Deleted]

Ugh I'm so sorry

This is my biggest fear of TTC soon- sleep deprivation while pregnant.

If she's crying anyway then maybe give CIO a chance? The toddler bed idea sounds good in theory but you won't be able to lay there with her with your belly and that just might lead to Matt always sleeping in the toddler bed. I don't know, I don't have advice, just hugs and sleepy vibes!!!

[eav2c]

I am sorry. I can tell you that you are not alone in the bedtime woes but it's awful and so demanding. Seriously, I would consider the toddler bed. Colin part time sleeps in his bed and then bedshares. He has a big ole bed that he does AMAZING in without me. Typically no wake ups at all then I get in with him and it's like all hell breaks loose. Like, me being with him just calls for boobs out and waking up 101 times. It's his bed, not a traditional toddler bed, but I am a weepy fuck who can't separate from him even though I think it would help if he had the second part of the night to himself. Every morning I wake up and tell myself that I can't do it anymore because if I turn a way he doesn't like, cover my boobs, etc. that he will scream/hit/kick/push to get me in the position he likes so he can sleep/nurse across me with his fist in my neck. Ugh.

I send my sympathy but you are certainly not alone at all. The toddler bed might be the key to your sanity especially if you can handle sleeping apart unlike me. ((hugs))

[thedahliharpa]

Oh, I'm sorry you guys are struggling.

H was not bed sharing when D arrived but D was and H suddenly started waking up all the time for the first few weeks. Honestly what saved us was that D slept amazingly well in the early months and I wish the same for you guys.

We are going to try the crib again soon and I'm considering night weaning in the next couple of months. I'm glad your DH is helping even though I know it's rough when they go crazy and just want mama. Friends of mine tamed their nighttime warrior by gradually lengthening Dad's shift. It was their spin off of Jay Gordon's method. Basically the first week any night wakings before 11 were Dad's deal, then they pushed it back 2 hours each week until they were where they wanted to be.
Sending A lots of sleepy wishes.

[lolaburns]

I wish I had some sort of advice to give or a new trick. All I can give is ((( hugs))). I hope you guys can get some sleep soon and A grows out of this, babe.

[blondiesbored]

We had to do the CIO a little bit. We modified it to fit our needs as well. I always hated listening to her crying, it breaks my heart. So, we rock her, I sing to her, do finger plays, read books and give kisses. We have to make sure she is good and tired but not asleep yet. When her eyes start to close I put her in her crib, tell her I love her and good night and walk out. She will usually roll over and go right to sleep but sometimes she stands right up and screams. I still walk out. By the time I am down my stairs she is laying back down and fast asleep (90% of the time) the other 10% she will cry for 5-8 minutes and go down. I hate the fact that she cries.
It was getting to the point that I was not sleeping at all when we were bed sharing. My DH spent most nights on the couch afraid to roll on her b/c he is such a deep sleeper. I spent most of the night cat napping, up every 5 minutes to make sure she was still in a safe place, she is an explorer.

[Deleted]

Leia just now went to sleep and its typical. I'm so tired of the late bedtime but I know it's our fault. Today she only napped for a little over an our instead of her normal 2-3. It's our fault because she will only fall asleep watching a movie or tv show. She won't let us rock her and I can't handle the screaming if we put her in the bed.

I hope things get easier for everyone having sleep issues.

[Dorothy Zbornak]

Oh, Dude, I'm sorry. Truth be told, bedsharing sucked when I was pregnant; by the end, I had my husband sleep between H and me. And H was a lot older than A is, so I can only imagine that she is like a little propeller in bed (I know Butterbaby is). I don't know what your bed setup is like, but if you have rails on both sides, or if one side of the bed is pushed up against the wall, then maybe you and Matt can sleep next to each other, with A next to Matt.

You'll want to come up with something fancy like that anyway before the next baby comes, because you don't want the toddler sleeping next to the newborn.

I wish I could pack up a big box of sleep for you.

[kdrake8]

Ugh, cream. Huge hugs, and I'm passing a vat of coffee and an IV drip of caffeine your way.

I have no advice but just love. M did finally start sttn when I weaned, which was at least a single benefit to my supply drying up.

Love you, lady.

[monkeybabe]

Oh, honey. I cannot imagine dealing with major sleep issues while pregnant. Big hugs!

[laurack]

No!!! This is horrible. You poor, poor thing I feel so sad for you guys! I just cannot imagine dealing with this level of poor sleep still, it just isn't fair.

I'm sorry I can't offer advice, cry it out worked for us but it was never so bad as you describe do I'm not sure.

Does your pedi have any advice? Are they aware of the severity?

(hug) (hug2)

[rjamz]

I'm so so sorry. I have no advice, but I don't know if you should do CIO if you don't think you can. I'm a huge proponent of CIO (sorry Dahli) but only for those who think it's right for them.

Have you looked into hiring a sleep coach? I don't know if that's something feasible for you guys (or if they have them outside of NYC, but I know the one my friend uses does Skype consults also, but she does CIO).

Big hugs. I'm sorry you're going through this

[bebeetmoi]

Oh Cream I'm so sorry you're still dealing with this. I CANNOT imagine being pregnant and exhausted and having to tend to a sleepless child 4x a night, you poor thing   
I don't have much advice because I eventually sleep trained DD when it became evident she was never going to sleep on her own. Will the baby room share with you for the first few months? If so, will there be enough room for a toddler bed and bassinet/crib in your room?

[silverjm]

I'm so sorry sweetie. We still have our own sleep issues, but it's not that bad. I think I'd try a mattress on the floor like eav2c said she does and see if that makes bed time easier for you guys. Matt may end up sleeping in there with her a lot, but that sounds much more tolerable for everybody as you get into these last weeks of your pregnancy and having a newborn. Hopefully things will continue to improve over time and you can transition to a big girl bed later if that's what you want. (((hugs)))

[bean47]

Hugs lady, I'm so sorry you're still dealing with such difficult sleep issues. I wish I had good advice, I only have support, virtual hugs and many good sleep vibes continuing your way. Sleep consultant? Is that an option for you guys? I know some will do them over the phone if you don't have one near you.  (heart)

[raynes]

Oh cream, I'm so sorry.

I think that we're maybe finally getting a handle on sleep in our house, and I'm really happy that we didn't have to resort to CIO. For us the turning point seems to be night weaning. It took a few nights for him to get used to it, but any time he woke up and cried H went in for cuddles.

I think the idea of a toddler bed might be a good one, maybe she'll do a bit better in her own space?

I also think rjamz idea of a sleep consultant/coach is a great idea if you can swing it. If you look up Goodnight Sleep Site on FB she does consultations all over the world via phone/email/skype, and will help you set up a plan with whatever you're comfortable with.

But mostly I just want to give you a big hug and say that if Owen can get this shit figured out, there's hope for Bella too!

ETA:  I meant to add that we went thought a period with the crazy screaming/crying while being held.  All we could do was just hold him and pass off when it became too much for that person.  For us it seemed to be a phase, so I hope that's the case for you and that it passes quickly!

[SteelCity44]

I'm sorry. We had the same blood curdling scream at 2am. Thrashing and kicking. Motrin helped, but that's because he's teething. We're also back up to 4x a night. But we don't cosleep. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

[joyhart02]

creamsiclechica that is exactly what we do with L now, is lay down with her until she falls asleep. It is a habit my husband started. I used to lay her down and she would just go to sleep. (Some cry it out happened sometimes) This all started happening when I was heavily pregnant too with C. It does help her go to sleep knowing someone is there.

 We did not transition her to a toddler bed until after 3. My personal opinion is to hold out as long as possible to transition her because it opens more problems. Getting out of bed, falling out of bed, not feeling secure in such a more open setting. 

My husband took over bedtime wake ups with her since I was nursing C. 

Does she have a lovey? A pacifier? Things that can help settle her? Honestly if she is that restless with someone trying to rock her I would try to let her cry for awhile. You know when she has had too much and go in there and console her. 

I will tell you it sucks with two shitty sleepers. But my husband helps a lot, I think your dh is the same way. 

Sometimes you have to ride it out too. It helped with L being a little older to understand more and she could communicate back. 

Let me know if you have more questions. 

Eta: there was a lot of sleeping on the floor of L's room, rocking her in the rocking chair, and my hugely pregnant ass crawling in her crib to sleep with her. 

I have never done bed sharing though. I try and keep the girls in there rooms As much as possible. 

[TrudyCampbell]

Cream, I'm so sorry. This little girl needs to realize how awesome sleep is! I have no advice other than what's been given but I hope it gets better soon. Many hugs <3

[Regina Philange]

I am so sorry. I am sending you magic sleepy vibes for A. Hugs!

[AndyCohen]

Cream, I'm so sorry you're still dealing with such bad sleep. I have no advice, but loads of hugs.

[formerlyllizzyb]

I am so sorry honey. I know you're exhausted. I have no advice, just lots of hugs.

[carawestt]

I'm so sorry, Cream! I can't imagine being sleep deprived while pregnant, that sounds awful. I don't know if it's the age or what but Lincoln's sleep is so out of whack lately too. The night before last be was up until 11 screaming, just like A was. He didn't want to be rocked, nursed, anything. It's been going on for the last week. Have you tried putting a mattress next to your bed? That way she's near you but you both have you own space.. I hope things get better for you, I know how frustrating it is. Hugs lady!

[hass2001]

I'm so sorry I agree with rjamz. I wasn't a fan of CIO until I did when she just wouldn't go down and it was 10 pm and I had no other choice. It worked for us those few times. But don't do it if it's not for you.

Do you think she is just over tired? 11 sounds like such a late bedtime and all the wake ups in between make for a tired baby (and momma / daddy!) for sure.

[twirlermom]

My oldest didn't start sttn in her own bed without hour long fights every night until we moved her sister in her room with her. That happened just this past January, which means she was 3 years and 3 months old. It was hard. We tried everything. She had to go into a toddler bed at about 1 1/2 because she learned to crawl out of the crib and we didn't want her to hurt herself.

There were many nights of hour long screaming by her. Then she would sleep for maybe an hour or two in her bed and come and crawl into our bed. Even to this day, I have to sit next to her bed and hold her hand while she falls asleep. I know how hard sleep deprivation is.

I honestly think having someone in her room with her (her sister now) is what made all the difference. I don't know if she was scared or just lonely, but it was like a switch the first night we put DD2 in there.

We also have classical type bedtime music playing on her ipod all night long to drown out some of the noise from the rest of the house.

I know it is tough, but you just have to be consistent. There are still nights when she comes in, but they are definitely getting farther apart. It has been a long 3 years! Luckily DD2 loves to sleep and will only really fall asleep if she is in her bed. Major difference compared to DD1.

[fusion]

Possibly a magnesium deficiency? My sleep was really out of whack and I started to research the causes behind it, and magnesium deficiency is so prevalent in adults and children. I give Jameson a calcium/mag/D supplement since he can't have dairy, and his sleep has improved since then. I personally supplement regularly now and have found a huge correlation between staying on top of supplementing and getting a good night's sleep. There are sprays and lotions you can use that absorb it through the skin, and you can do epsom salt baths before bed.

[angiekay84]

I know you said you aren't comfortable with CIO, but if she is crying already and fussy, I personally would let her do it in her crib. Yes it's not fun to hear or know she is crying, but on the flip side a well rested and happy sleeping toddler is healthy and makes everyone (including them) happier in the end. We follow The Sleep Lady's method. It is more gentle than Ferber, but does have aspects of CIO. I think at the age our babies are at, you either sleep train or be prepared to deal with this for the long haul. I don't think she will just magically sleep beautifully one night on her own now (it could happen, but is unlikely.) She has learned a specific night ritual and some form of training is probably needed. I am a believer in CIO, so of course take what I say with a grain of salt.

[creamsiclechica]

Thank you all for the words of encouragement, suggestions, and just heartfelt commiseration. It's been rougher than normal lately, which I think it just combined with my general discomfort too.

CIO for us is incredibly stressful, both for me and A. I tried to do a fifteen minute interval exactly twice when my desperation ran out. It resulted in me crying hysterically the entire time and A throwing up on herself over the crib. I just don't think I can put her through it, or myself. I think it's a genuinely concerned suggestion from all of you, and I'm not condemning it, please don't think that, but it's just not for us. I simply cannot imagine how stressed out I'd be after she cried for like an HOUR or something.

I kind of like the idea of trying a mattress, just to see. Or bedrails like Dorothy suggested to put Matt in between us. I've tried a couple of plans, like the one you gave me, bean47, but even with consistency, she rebels and cries and wakes up. She is like literally petrified of her crib and I don't know why. My only guess is the repeated ear infections before tubes have traumatized her, and she only feels comfortable lying down if we're nearby in the beginning. Every time we put her in there, she wakes up immediately completely alarmed. Or, Matt can get her down in there after a long fight, she'll stay for an hour, but when she wakes, it's complete meltdown that takes a long time to get her calmed from. We start getting her prepped for bed between 8 and 8:30, it just takes her until almost freaking 11pm or later to settle and sleep.

Our room is incredibly close to hers, and we have a video monitor/sound monitor I keep turned on, so if she were to stir in a bed, I'd hear her I'm pretty sure before she got up and got out. She takes her naps in my bed right now, and that works for us during the day.

I haven't ruled out a sleep consultant but they are kind of pricey, so I'll have to see where our budget would be for one in the area. I keep trying to tell myself she's just not the best sleeper right NOW, and we'll get through it, but sometimes it's so, so hard.

Really, thank you all. Just knowing you can commiserate and support me is a lot. And knowing people have survived, like you have joyhart02, despite how hard it is, let's me know I'm not alone.

raynes, also, you have NO idea how happy I am Owen seems to be pulling through his sleeplessness. It feels like a victory over here too, just because it gives me HOPE!

[spaghetticat]

I have no advice other than what's already been said, but I'm so sorry you guys are still struggling with this. You are doing such a great job. Hang in there! I hope things start improving soon. Hugs!

[Deleted]

creamsiclechica CIO isn't a magic bullet you are missing. I am pro CIO but my kid...isn't. He cries to puking and freaks the fuck out.

I'm trying bedtime/Disney CDs now. He will fall asleep if I sit next to his bed and ignore him/talk on the phone etc so I am hopeful that a cd with songs and talking will help him learn to soothe himself/chill out.

Hugs and hair pats!!!