I'm not disregarding everything they are saying. I understand lack of weight gain is a serious issue. But I don't see how cutting her off the breast is going to help. She went on a drink and food strike for 3 days when we tried to introduce WCM and pediasure. I can't imagine what would happen to her diet if I denied her boob access.
I wouldn't focus on the BFing aspect of what they're saying. Focus on trying to supplement the BFing as much as possible with calories and fat.
I'm not disregarding everything they are saying. I understand lack of weight gain is a serious issue. But I don't see how cutting her off the breast is going to help. She went on a drink and food strike for 3 days when we tried to introduce WCM and pediasure. I can't imagine what would happen to her diet if I denied her boob access.
I wouldn't focus on the BFing aspect of what they're saying. Focus on trying to supplement the BFing as much as possible with calories and fat.
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I mean I get that. I have for the past forever that they have been worried about her gain. But when you child screams, cries, and runs away from food at the near sight of it, but then seconds later asks to nurse. It's hard not t just give her the boob.
This is a situation no parent wants to be in. While the manner in which the doctors confronted you was very poor, they are trying to do what is medically best for P. I agree with seeking out a second opinion, but please take what they are saying to heart. And as others have pointed out, this may not mean that you have to stop your BF relationship. Keep the focus on fatty foods and see what a pediatric nutritionist has to say.
You and YH are great parents. I know you'll do what's right for P.
I wouldn't focus on the BFing aspect of what they're saying. Focus on trying to supplement the BFing as much as possible with calories and fat.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using proboards
I mean I get that. I have for the past forever that they have been worried about her gain. But when you child screams, cries, and runs away from food at the near sight of it, but then seconds later asks to nurse. It's hard not t just give her the boob.
I feel like that is the entire reason they are trying to get you to pump instead of nurse. She's still getting the calories and nutrition of BM. They don't want you to quit nursing, I think they want you to make it more of a supplement or meal -vs-snack.
Post by creamsiclechica on Jul 30, 2013 9:14:51 GMT -5
I'm so sorry this is what you're facing and that the appointment took such a devastating turn. I have to say that I feel dixeedeluxe is right on the money in this post. I think seeing a pedi GI and nutritionist will actually help, not harm you. It's their specialty to help with these specific kinds of problems. I think you could find a way to still BF, but maybe they can guide you on ways to structure her more and get her to appeal more to solids in ways you haven't tried.
I know this is all so overwhelming, but try as hard as you can to think of how everyone has Pey's best interests in mind and it might be easier to come to an agreement with their tactics and your parenting that works for HER than you think. It's incredibly emotional for you, but if you try to go in with information, and open mind, and the idea that everyone wants to help and not attack you, it might be a smoother way to finding a solution for your sweet girl. Best of luck, Laura, and we're here for support through this.
Post by lauranicole91 on Jul 30, 2013 9:20:01 GMT -5
I never said I was against seeing the specialist. I feel like some of you are replying like I just gave them the finger and walked out.
The only think I am against here in EPing. That is something I will not start doing at this moment in time.
I absolutely know something isn't quite right here. And I do plan on getting in touch with not only the specialist she suggested, but also a lactation consultant and possibly a GI doc.
Post by thedahliharpa on Jul 30, 2013 9:24:19 GMT -5
I think you can find some middle ground between cutting some sessions and not entirely weaning, if you wanted to. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. I hope you can get into the specialists soon. I feel like if she was FF or on WCM exclusively you would have been sent straight to the GI,from that appointment, and not told to cut either out entirely (reduce qty. yes, remove from diet no).
Post by dixeedeluxe on Jul 30, 2013 9:24:23 GMT -5
Have you Googled any Failure To Thrive support groups? There HAS to be something out there that you can take a look at so you can at least get some "virtual" support from parents who are in the same situation as you are.
C25K...it works Seaside 5K...........40:45(2012) Turkey Trot..........41:30(2012)/37:08(2013)/37:40(2014) St Pat's 5K..........39:27(2013)/38:48(2014)/35:12(2015) Belair Town Run......38:09(2013)/36:27(2014) Back To Football 5K..37:36(2013)/43:44(2015) Balt Run Fest 5K.....34:59(2013)/41:50(2014)/35:54(2015)
how is your own diet? The quality of your diet can affect the quality of your milk as well - the fat and nutrition content of it. I'm wondering if upping your own healthy fats could make your breast milk more nutritious for her. www.alive.com/articles/view/18158/top-quality_breast_milk
Post by dixeedeluxe on Jul 30, 2013 9:26:40 GMT -5
I'm Googling now and, um, maybe don't do that. From what I'm seeing right now, it is just a lot of lay-advice (like we're giving!) and nothing really medical concerning FTT.
C25K...it works Seaside 5K...........40:45(2012) Turkey Trot..........41:30(2012)/37:08(2013)/37:40(2014) St Pat's 5K..........39:27(2013)/38:48(2014)/35:12(2015) Belair Town Run......38:09(2013)/36:27(2014) Back To Football 5K..37:36(2013)/43:44(2015) Balt Run Fest 5K.....34:59(2013)/41:50(2014)/35:54(2015)
I never said I was against seeing the specialist. I feel like some of you are replying like I just gave them the finger and walked out.
The only think I am against here in EPing. That is something I will not start doing at this moment in time.
I absolutely know something isn't quite right here. And I do plan on getting in touch with not only the specialist she suggested, but also a lactation consultant and possibly a GI doc.
Honey, please don't feel attacked. I don't think anybody is trying to do anything but support you and help you through it. I think more than anything, everyone's trying to say that seeing all these additional people can help turn a negative into a positive for you, that's all.
awww I'm so sorry you are dealing with this, that sucks! (((hugs)))
How many times in 24 hours does she nurse now? When was the last time you pumped? wondering if you had any idea of how many oz she takes in at this point. BM is very caloric and high in fat, but of course if she is only getting an ounce at a time that means little.
Also I think EPing for a 1+ year old makes no sense. At least for me I was barely able to pump anything towards the end but she still got milk. Maybe you can continue to BF but only at scheduled intervals, like first thing in the morning, bed time, then 1-2 times in the day but always like 4+ hours apart?
Its tough because it could be a chicken egg thing like she doesn't eat because she will get the boob, if you take away the boob then you worry she will take in NOTHING AT ALL but maybe instead she would realize there won't be a boob all the times she wants and will give in and eat?
I don't know it's so hard. But, hopefully the pediatric nutritionist/specialist will be very helpful. I'm sure they'll be much better/more comforting/more helpful than the general pedi. The general pedis just have kids in and out all day mostly healthy and normal size etc., it isn't their area of specialty so they can't deal with it in enough detail.
Good luck, I hope you can get an appointment soon.
Post by charlielove on Jul 30, 2013 9:31:35 GMT -5
First, big hugs.
Second, I agree that maybe there is some middle ground with BFing. Maybe having a schedule of when she BFs? Like, after meals maybe. Definitely talk to the nutritionist.
I am sure the pressure and anxiety of the situation are clouding how you are feeling right now, understandably. You have and continue to try to do what's best for Peyton, so don't be hard on yourself. I think the Dr.'s have her best interest in mind too, they just don't always express it in the kindest way.
I think you can find some middle ground between cutting some sessions and not entirely weaning, if you wanted to. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. I hope you can get into the specialists soon. I feel like if she was FF or on WCM exclusively you would have been sent straight to the GI,from that appointment, and not told to cut either out entirely (reduce qty. yes, remove from diet no).
But I think their concern is the breast itself, not the breast milk. That she enjoys it so much that she is choosing it over food. I wonder if Laura could get her to associate it only with bedtime or something, so that she can continue to nurse but also encourage Peyton to eat more during the day because the breast is not an option then.
This. They still agree Peyton should get BM and that it's great, it's just the method of delivery.
I'm sorry if you feel attacked, Laura. I didn't mean for anything I said to come off as an attack on you at all. I'm just worried about you and Peyton and am trying to offer advice as best I can.
yes I think the breast maybe might be encouraging the snacky behaviour? because the flow may be very slow now so not much is coming out but it's sweet and comforting and "takes the edge off" so she doesn't feel a need to eat anything again for a while and then the breast is more comforting than eating food so she goes for that again an hour later?
I'm just throwing things out there because I have no idea how often she nurses but if it's very often like every hour all day or something then probably changing that up would be a good experiment. Maybe scheduled intervals will help, 7am, noon, 4pm, bedtime. Then she's still getting the good BM nutrition & comfort, you don't have to pump and it removes boob-snacking from the list of possible concerns.
Post by Faevantastic on Jul 30, 2013 9:35:13 GMT -5
Just a thiught - I'm thinking they want you to EP so she would get used to drinking out of a sippy/cup/bottle and not out of the boob so then you could eventually transition her to drinking other things (WCM, pediasure, etc).
Good luck, Laura! I know you'll do everything you can for your little girl.
Post by dixeedeluxe on Jul 30, 2013 9:35:58 GMT -5
I'm just Googling, which anyone can do. But this website had some good info in non-accusitory terms. It's not typical for a toddler to be BF, we all know that. But if you take her milk intake (nutritionally speaking) and replace it for the milk/juice, this could maybe bring it into a better light?
If a diagnosis of FTT is made and no medical conditions are suggested on examination, appropriate guidance for catch-up growth should be made. Age-appropriate nutritional counseling should be provided to parents.30–34 For parents of breastfed infants, recommending breastfeeding more often, ensuring lactation support, or discussing formula supplementation until catch-up growth is achieved may be helpful.31 Parents of formula-fed infants may be instructed on how to make energy-dense formula by concentrating the ratio of formula to water during periods of catch-up growth.32,33
Toddlers should avoid excessive juice or milk consumption because this can interfere with proper nutrition. Nutritional supplements may be given until catch-up growth is achieved.34,35 During a period of catchup growth, parents may also be instructed to provide calorie-dense foods by adding rice cereal to foods for toddlers, or adding gravies, cream sauces, or butter to foods for older children or adolescents.
C25K...it works Seaside 5K...........40:45(2012) Turkey Trot..........41:30(2012)/37:08(2013)/37:40(2014) St Pat's 5K..........39:27(2013)/38:48(2014)/35:12(2015) Belair Town Run......38:09(2013)/36:27(2014) Back To Football 5K..37:36(2013)/43:44(2015) Balt Run Fest 5K.....34:59(2013)/41:50(2014)/35:54(2015)
Post by dixeedeluxe on Jul 30, 2013 9:36:08 GMT -5
I'm just Googling, which anyone can do. But this website had some good info in non-accusitory terms. It's not typical for a toddler to be BF, we all know that. But if you take her milk intake (nutritionally speaking) and replace it for the milk/juice, this could maybe bring it into a better light?
If a diagnosis of FTT is made and no medical conditions are suggested on examination, appropriate guidance for catch-up growth should be made. Age-appropriate nutritional counseling should be provided to parents.30–34 For parents of breastfed infants, recommending breastfeeding more often, ensuring lactation support, or discussing formula supplementation until catch-up growth is achieved may be helpful.31 Parents of formula-fed infants may be instructed on how to make energy-dense formula by concentrating the ratio of formula to water during periods of catch-up growth.32,33
Toddlers should avoid excessive juice or milk consumption because this can interfere with proper nutrition. Nutritional supplements may be given until catch-up growth is achieved.34,35 During a period of catchup growth, parents may also be instructed to provide calorie-dense foods by adding rice cereal to foods for toddlers, or adding gravies, cream sauces, or butter to foods for older children or adolescents.
C25K...it works Seaside 5K...........40:45(2012) Turkey Trot..........41:30(2012)/37:08(2013)/37:40(2014) St Pat's 5K..........39:27(2013)/38:48(2014)/35:12(2015) Belair Town Run......38:09(2013)/36:27(2014) Back To Football 5K..37:36(2013)/43:44(2015) Balt Run Fest 5K.....34:59(2013)/41:50(2014)/35:54(2015)
I think you can find some middle ground between cutting some sessions and not entirely weaning, if you wanted to. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. I hope you can get into the specialists soon. I feel like if she was FF or on WCM exclusively you would have been sent straight to the GI,from that appointment, and not told to cut either out entirely (reduce qty. yes, remove from diet no).
But I think their concern is the breast itself, not the breast milk. That she enjoys it so much that she is choosing it over food. ?
Laura, I wonder if you could get her to associate it only with bedtime or something, so that you can continue to nurse but also encourage Peyton to eat more during the day because the breast is not an option then.
I also agree with this. I certainly didn't mean to make you feel attacked, Laura. When I agreed with the Dr's about pumping, I guess I was trying to say (not so eloquently) what Tamb is saying. That I could see why they are saying to pump because they agree that BM is best, but in a more "controlled" situation.
Again, I know you are trying to figure out the best place to start. It can be overwhelming!!
I don't have anything really to add. I hope a second opinion will make you feel more at ease. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. I do agree that cutting out breastfeeding entirely would be the last thing that I would do.
Does she eat/drink better when you're not around? How does she do with your husband while you are at work? That might be the best time to fill her tummy id while you're not around. Also pey has always been very active! She's just working those calories right off.
There might be something else wrong here like you said. Momma always knows best.
Post by dixeedeluxe on Jul 30, 2013 9:39:07 GMT -5
I know this seems scary. But this website is pretty positive! It also encourages nutritional counseling, which I think we all have said is a good thing. I hope you're able to find a nutritional counsler you like!
But the article also says this is only seen in 5-10% of patients in a pedi practice. So your pedi is probably not very experienced in this area.
C25K...it works Seaside 5K...........40:45(2012) Turkey Trot..........41:30(2012)/37:08(2013)/37:40(2014) St Pat's 5K..........39:27(2013)/38:48(2014)/35:12(2015) Belair Town Run......38:09(2013)/36:27(2014) Back To Football 5K..37:36(2013)/43:44(2015) Balt Run Fest 5K.....34:59(2013)/41:50(2014)/35:54(2015)
I'm sorry you have to deal with this, it sounds very stressful. I think the specialists they mentioned will be good and should have some great advice. Nothing they said means you aren't a great mother!
My best guess as why they mentioned getting rid of BFing is because she is rejecting solids in favor of BFing, which at this age isn't probably good as BFing alone won't give her enough. I think by stopping you would eliminate the emotional and comfort only aspect involved from Ps side with BFing to see if that is "holding her back" from solids and more calories.
On the comfort note, I haven't noticed any reduction of comforting Ada after weaning and she was pretty addicted to the boob. She actually snuggles with me way more than she did while BFing. The first few days were hard on both of us but after that you would never know anything changed.
Are there any foods she really likes? What are her favorite things? Maybe you can start giving her extra of those types of foods and go from there, while you slowly decrease the boob snacking time.
I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. I hope you can get the help that P needs to help her gain weight. I know this is something the doctors have had their eyes on for a while now. I agree that seeing the GI specialist and nutritionist would be a good idea. I also think it would be smart to also seek the advice and help of a lactation specialist if you want to keep breastfeeding. It might also be beneficial to seek out a second opinion as well. Hugs.
awww I'm so sorry you are dealing with this, that sucks! (((hugs)))
How many times in 24 hours does she nurse now? When was the last time you pumped? wondering if you had any idea of how many oz she takes in at this point. BM is very caloric and high in fat, but of course if she is only getting an ounce at a time that means little.
Also I think EPing for a 1+ year old makes no sense. At least for me I was barely able to pump anything towards the end but she still got milk. Maybe you can continue to BF but only at scheduled intervals, like first thing in the morning, bed time, then 1-2 times in the day but always like 4+ hours apart?
Its tough because it could be a chicken egg thing like she doesn't eat because she will get the boob, if you take away the boob then you worry she will take in NOTHING AT ALL but maybe instead she would realize there won't be a boob all the times she wants and will give in and eat?
I don't know it's so hard. But, hopefully the pediatric nutritionist/specialist will be very helpful. I'm sure they'll be much better/more comforting/more helpful than the general pedi. The general pedis just have kids in and out all day mostly healthy and normal size etc., it isn't their area of specialty so they can't deal with it in enough detail.
Good luck, I hope you can get an appointment soon.
In 24hrs I'd say she gets about 8 letdown inducing nursing sessions. Each about 10-20 mins long depending on if its a session right before nap time or bedtime. 2 or 3 of those are over night MOTN feelings. If I am home during the day she will do some non letdown inducing boob snacking but it is still a 5min both side gulping nurse.
I pump every other day after I get off work at night and get 4-5oz total. When I work during the day(8am-1pm) she doesn't take an BM sippies. But when I work at night(5:30-10) she drinks the 4-5oz sippy from when I pumped last. And she barely finishes it so it's not like she isn't getting "enough"-based on her own wants.
If we are out and about all day she doesn't tend to ask for it AS much. So in the event she falls asleep on the way home from such activities and skips some feedings I do get engorged and my boobs are painful rocks. So my supply is definitely there and better than ever considering my low supply in the beginning.
I did put in a call with a LC as @tambcat suggested. So I can A) hear what a BFing advocate has to say about the whole situation and B) she who she suggests I speak with next in the medical world. Be in a GI specialist or just a nutritionalist first.
Post by Faevantastic on Jul 30, 2013 9:46:36 GMT -5
Just another suggestion - do you have any friends with kids that you could have lunch/dinner with? I find that Evan eats way more at daycare with his peers or at a friend's house because he wants to copy a four year old.
It can take awhile to get seen by a nutritionist, a GI, and a second opinion. Try to schedule them now. have your pedi help you expedite an appointment since they are concerned.
I know you are upset, I would also be upset by the lack of support for breastfeeding from your pedi. That said, they seem to have a valid concern. Breastfeeding (i think I read she nurses and also uses your breasts for comfort?) is great, but its becoming a problem for her developmental needs.
I don't want to sound harsh, but it is ok to deny her the breast sometimes. Not all the time, but its ok to have set times to nurse and not nurse on demand all the time anymore since she isn't getting all that she needs to grow. I started by nursing in the morning and at night and right before their afternoon nap. The boys still got to comfort nurse, but got more calories supplemented by food and milk.
I'm hope that working with a nutritionist will help Peyton get all the nutrients she needs. From BM and food. As a mom of a peanut, I'm thinking of you and hoping things look up soon! You are doing a great job and are a good mom! Posting about this shows how much you care. Hugs to you and Peyton.
Post by TrudyCampbell on Jul 30, 2013 9:54:46 GMT -5
Is there anyway you can get down to just morning and night feedings? I feel like that would be the best of both worlds because you could still BF but she would eat much more food.
I feel like people are going to throw things at me for saying this, but Violet gained 2 lbs in the month after we weaned. I was devastated to stop BFing but I feel like as soon as we did she ate a TON more food. I'm not saying you should stop because obviously you both aren't ready but I do think cutting back might help a lot.
I'm sorry this is happening, it all sounds very stressful but I do think the doctors and everyone here in this thread have Peyton's best interest in mind.