Not sure if I should stay married - advice?

[thatsnotmyname]

Oct 18, 2013 11:52:12 GMT -5 cleo29 said:

How was the affection when you were dating? I mean, is this how he has always been or has he changed over time? How much sex did you have before getting married?

I think he started out being more affectionate, and it faded with time. Maybe I was just in a haze.

The sex has been at this rate since we were dating. He actually threatened (sort of) to not go through with the wedding about six months out due to the amount of sex we were having. 

[isabel]

Oct 18, 2013 11:54:51 GMT -5 thatsnotmyname said:

I feel like for a couple of people without kids, two times a week is not a lot!

I'm not suggesting 2x a week is enough for you, that's personal preference, but I just wanted to let you know that DH and I have been married two years, together almost seven, and we have sex about once a week. We have no children. In fairness, it really is enough for both of us and there is plenty of other physical affection and attraction in our marriage. But there's no reason you need to live up to some minimum level of sex just because other people have it. All that matters is what works for you and your marriage.

[Kore]

Oct 18, 2013 11:57:00 GMT -5 eddy said:

I think your expectations of what marriage is really like are off base.

I mean I am surprised that what you posted is divorce worthy in your mind.

What you posted is called marriage. It ebbs it flows. You disconnect and reconnect. By all means get help. It will facilitate the reconnect.

Normal

I have to agree with eddy. It's not super fun, but what you've described sounds pretty normal. Every relationship has things that could be better. My H is extremely affectionate, tells me all the time that I'm beautiful & that he adores me, etc. Yet we're dealing with major depression, no sex, & other stuff.

I'm not at all trying to minimize your wants or problems; just want to provide perspective in that you can divorce him, but you'll likely be trading one set of issues for another. All relationships have issues.

Counseling can really be helpful. Individual counseling to help you with perspective & gratitude (or confirmation that this is a deep problem & you need out); and couples counseling to help the two of you communicate your needs.

Good luck!

[isabel]

Oct 18, 2013 12:00:58 GMT -5 tulip said:

If you aren't in love with him that is reason enough for a divorce.

It really strikes a nerve when people say things like this. Falling out of love is NOT a good reason for divorce and is the reason that there is such an insane amount of divorce. Shouldn't she at least *try* to get back what they had before they married? Don't enter into a commitment like that if you're going to decide you're bored and want out.

[Deleted]

How long were you together before getting married? Relationships ebb and flow, so maybe you just need to work on some things after 4 years of marriage,

[thatsnotmyname]

Oct 18, 2013 11:53:54 GMT -5 @t2j said:

Oct 18, 2013 11:45:15 GMT -5 thatsnotmyname said:

I know that I should get counseling. I need to pull the trigger. I'll make an appointment.

He would not go to counseling with me. I've asked in the past, and he refuses.

@livinitup I got married because I love him. I thought that things were good enough. Things haven't changed that much in our relationship over time, I don't think. It's not like he recently changed and I don't know if I can be in a relationship with this new person. I'm maybe just thinking that I have so much time left in my life to spend with someone, and I don't want that person to be just a great roommate.

You say you have so much time left to spend with someone. Do you have someone in mind? I'm not trying to be snarky, but I said some of these same things when I was with ex-bf and had met someone else that I liked. I also dug for reasons why I shouldn't be with bf.
I may be entirely off base. I am just speaking from personal experience.

No, I don't have someone in mind. I don't have a replacement life lined up. That is sort of scary to me too, though, because who says I'd find someone better suited to me? Maybe this is my best shot at a mostly good relationship. That's kind of shitty too, to stay married partially because I'm scared I won't find something better... I have a lot of conflicting ideas running through my head these days.

[gozf]

I agree with PPs who've said that nothing sounds unfixable, here. Relationships DO ebb and flow, and that's ok. Figure out what you need that you aren't getting, and communicate it in a clear, non-threatening way. Be open to hearing his needs, too.

I think you need to figure out if you want this to work or not. If so, counseling -- and try to get him to go, too. If not, then... not.

[saraandmichael]

if your husband were making this post, how would he say that you don't meet his needs?

you have very specific deficiencies here, but none that seem beyond repair. and i'm not altogether convinced that you don't want to be married to him, but instead are a bit reluctant to put in the work to make things better.

its difficult to not feel like it shouldn't have to be hard work to make your marriage feel like one, but the reality is (to me) that relationships ebb and flow, people become complacent, and often times idealize the past and make it something it wasn't.

my husband was also reluctant to counseling, but i found a counselor for myself that i love and after seeing her for a few months i invited him to come with me so that we could discuss our relationship. and now we are going together about once a month.

but honestly, even if he didn't come, i would have someone to help guide me through what i can do to change things and make my marriage happy and productive. and if it is important to you, then i think you owe it to yourself to make the effort.

[thatsnotmyname]

Oct 18, 2013 11:59:32 GMT -5 isabel said:

It seems like there is a LOT of good in your relationship and not a lot of bad. I do think counseling would work wonders. I also agree with the suggestion about love languages. It's a bit cheesy, but I think it's worth a look for both of you. He can't answer you about how he shares affection, but does he say that he is attracted to you? Is it possible he is showing affection in ways neither of you are able to identify? Does he fix things around the house, bring you flowers/small gifts, spend a lot of time with you? You guys need to sit down with someone and have some real conversations about where your lives are headed. The military thing could be a bigger deal than either of you realize.

There is a lot of good. I agree. I haven't read the love languages book, but we've both taken the online quiz. I know that his love languages ares acts of service (keeping the house clean, doing a little extra favor for him) and quality time. I do those things because I know those are ways I can show my love to him. He knows that my love languages are physical touch and words of affirmation, neither of which he provides me. 

The military thing is huge. I am pretty sure he will go through with it, regardless of my feelings. That is a big deal to me. 


I'm having a hard time responding to all the questions. While I am still confused - maybe more confused - I have ideas of things I can do to find my way (our way) to what is right for us.

[tulip]

Oct 18, 2013 12:06:31 GMT -5 isabel said:

Oct 18, 2013 12:00:58 GMT -5 tulip said:

If you aren't in love with him that is reason enough for a divorce.

It really strikes a nerve when people say things like this. Falling out of love is NOT a good reason for divorce and is the reason that there is such an insane amount of divorce. Shouldn't she at least *try* to get back what they had before they married? Don't enter into a commitment like that if you're going to decide you're bored and want out.

It's pretty obvious that she is looking for an out. I'm thinking more about her H here. Is putting a major goal on hold here for her. She isn't really into this marriage anymore. If I was her H I'd want to know what the deal is so I could follow what I want to do.

I'm not saying they can't try but if my H wasn't in love with me it would always be in the back of my mind. I don't know if I could get over that. I also get the feeling you are self righteous. Who are you to judge or tell someone they entered a commitment and then left because of boredom? FFS

[saraandmichael]

Oct 18, 2013 12:02:36 GMT -5 thatsnotmyname said:

Oct 18, 2013 11:52:12 GMT -5 cleo29 said:

How was the affection when you were dating? I mean, is this how he has always been or has he changed over time? How much sex did you have before getting married?

I think he started out being more affectionate, and it faded with time. Maybe I was just in a haze.

The sex has been at this rate since we were dating. He actually threatened (sort of) to not go through with the wedding about six months out due to the amount of sex we were having. 

can you explain that better please?

[shostakovich]

Oct 18, 2013 12:21:07 GMT -5 thatsnotmyname said:

Oct 18, 2013 11:59:32 GMT -5 isabel said:

It seems like there is a LOT of good in your relationship and not a lot of bad. I do think counseling would work wonders. I also agree with the suggestion about love languages. It's a bit cheesy, but I think it's worth a look for both of you. He can't answer you about how he shares affection, but does he say that he is attracted to you? Is it possible he is showing affection in ways neither of you are able to identify? Does he fix things around the house, bring you flowers/small gifts, spend a lot of time with you? You guys need to sit down with someone and have some real conversations about where your lives are headed. The military thing could be a bigger deal than either of you realize.

There is a lot of good. I agree. I haven't read the love languages book, but we've both taken the online quiz. I know that his love languages ares acts of service (keeping the house clean, doing a little extra favor for him) and quality time. I do those things because I know those are ways I can show my love to him. He knows that my love languages are physical touch and words of affirmation, neither of which he provides me. 

The military thing is huge. I am pretty sure he will go through with it, regardless of my feelings. That is a big deal to me. 


I'm having a hard time responding to all the questions. While I am still confused - maybe more confused - I have ideas of things I can do to find my way (our way) to what is right for us.

Okay.  The bolded statements above, plus your earlier post that he threatened to call your wedding off because the two of you weren't having enough sex, AND his refusing to go to couples counseling, is making me wonder a little bit about your H.

Is he a "my way or the highway" type?  When you say that you express your love by keeping the house clean - is this an expectation of his that you will always keep the house clean, or is it more of a "I'm going to clean the house up to surprise H and make his day" type thing?

[ginger]

A lot of this sounds like you fantasized marriage, and now that you're seeing what real life is like, you're disappointed.

Sort through your feelings for things you can accept as-is (and will not complain about anymore); things you would like to change, but aren't deal breakers and wouldn't make you leave; and those things that must absolutely change or you're out.

I think if you can get your feelings down on paper since you're having a hard time really quantifying what's going on other than just saying roommates, I think it will give you a good start to opening up communication either with a therapist or (hopefully) your husband. BUT, it's perfectly okay if you just need a little help from a therapist figuring out how you best communicate with each other.

[TC]

Oct 18, 2013 12:22:31 GMT -5 saraandmichael said:

Oct 18, 2013 12:02:36 GMT -5 thatsnotmyname said:

I think he started out being more affectionate, and it faded with time. Maybe I was just in a haze.

The sex has been at this rate since we were dating. He actually threatened (sort of) to not go through with the wedding about six months out due to the amount of sex we were having. 

can you explain that better please?

Yes, this. This + him refusing to go to counseling + your feelings not mattering regarding him joining the military are the things that stood out to me. Not the amount of sex you are or are not having or whether or not he makes you laugh. I think you would benefit from individual therapy to help you flesh out what you are looking for in a lifelong relationship with an objective party to help you determine if that is obtainable with your current partner, and I also think you would benefit from having someone around to help you look deeper into what it means for you that he does not seem to care about your feelings on the military and most importantly why you have continued to stay with someone who voices that they would like to pursue a lifestyle you adamantly do not want. If he was not on board with couples counseling before joining the military, that would be a hard line for me (and we are former military). Does he want to do one tour, does he want to join and retire from the military, does he have a degree and would be streamlined straight into an officer program? This is a huge life event and it sounds like neither of you have really thought about what those choices mean long term. 

On a less serious note, I just wanted to chime in as some sort of freak of nature that is completely inept at physical touch. I can not do physical touch without actual mental effort, most of the time. You know how some people are extroverted and introverted and even when introverts like being around people, it's still overwhelming and difficult for them? That is how I am with physical touch. It overwhelms me and it makes me feel drained if there is a lot of pressure around it. Some people are just crappy at physical expression even if they are over the moon passionate about you. Has your husband ever elaborated why he does not physically touch you more?

[livinitup]

I'm still wondering why you married him - since he's probably always been like this and it's only NOW bothering you.

Did you want this life, and now you don't? Did something change with you?

[thatsnotmyname]

Oct 18, 2013 12:22:31 GMT -5 saraandmichael said:

Oct 18, 2013 12:02:36 GMT -5 thatsnotmyname said:

I think he started out being more affectionate, and it faded with time. Maybe I was just in a haze.

The sex has been at this rate since we were dating. He actually threatened (sort of) to not go through with the wedding about six months out due to the amount of sex we were having. 

can you explain that better please?

Sure. About six months before the wedding, he told me that if things didn't change with regards to the amount of sex we were having (and his feeling like I don't initiate as much as he does, which...I just don't feel like it's true, but we don't keep a notebook with who initiated when or anything) in the next few months, that he might not go through with the wedding. The amount of sex we've had in the past has been consistent (about the same as now).

Things didn't really change. He didn't call off the wedding, obviously. It's always bothered me to think about that, so I just try not to. 

[thatsnotmyname]

Oct 18, 2013 12:28:37 GMT -5 shostakovich said:

Oct 18, 2013 12:21:07 GMT -5 thatsnotmyname said:

There is a lot of good. I agree. I haven't read the love languages book, but we've both taken the online quiz. I know that his love languages ares acts of service (keeping the house clean, doing a little extra favor for him) and quality time. I do those things because I know those are ways I can show my love to him. He knows that my love languages are physical touch and words of affirmation, neither of which he provides me. 

The military thing is huge. I am pretty sure he will go through with it, regardless of my feelings. That is a big deal to me. 


I'm having a hard time responding to all the questions. While I am still confused - maybe more confused - I have ideas of things I can do to find my way (our way) to what is right for us.

Okay.  The bolded statements above, plus your earlier post that he threatened to call your wedding off because the two of you weren't having enough sex, AND his refusing to go to couples counseling, is making me wonder a little bit about your H.

Is he a "my way or the highway" type?  When you say that you express your love by keeping the house clean - is this an expectation of his that you will always keep the house clean, or is it more of a "I'm going to clean the house up to surprise H and make his day" type thing?

I know that when he comes home and there are dishes in the sink, it upsets him. I do keep the house clean because I know it makes him happy. I'll go "above and beyond" normal every day house cleaning to do some sort of extra task around the house to make him extra happy. 

I should add that I work from home 4 days a week, but I do work 8 or 9 hours every day. I'm saving time on a commute, and I think he expects me to have the house clean and groceries bought, etc. because of that. 

[Jalapeñomel]

Did you have serious sexual and/or romantic relationships before you got married with other people? How old are you?

[thatsnotmyname]

I had a few relationships but none that were long term or very serious. I met him when I was 21. I'm 30.

[roseflower]

Marriage is not going to feel passion constantly and honestly...divorcing over a passion issue is a cop out in my eyes. For better or worse right? Or...do people get married now but have passion as a stipulation?

That is not completely directed at OP but a few of the responses got me. Marriage is HARD work. It would be nice to feel passion 24/7, unfortunately it doesn't happen.

OP...your situation sounds amazing to many people who don't laugh or have fu with their spouse. This sounds like something that can be worked on...I do wish your husband would consider counseling though. Does he say why he won't? Maybe after seeing you go a while he will change his mind.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using proboards

[Deleted]

Oct 18, 2013 11:38:39 GMT -5 kmpls said:

Your life sounds great. I think you need counseling.

Lol.

[isabel]

Oct 18, 2013 12:21:46 GMT -5 tulip said:

Oct 18, 2013 12:06:31 GMT -5 isabel said:

It really strikes a nerve when people say things like this. Falling out of love is NOT a good reason for divorce and is the reason that there is such an insane amount of divorce. Shouldn't she at least *try* to get back what they had before they married? Don't enter into a commitment like that if you're going to decide you're bored and want out.

It's pretty obvious that she is looking for an out. I'm thinking more about her H here. Is putting a major goal on hold here for her. She isn't really into this marriage anymore. If I was her H I'd want to know what the deal is so I could follow what I want to do.

I'm not saying they can't try but if my H wasn't in love with me it would always be in the back of my mind. I don't know if I could get over that. I also get the feeling you are self righteous. Who are you to judge or tell someone they entered a commitment and then left because of boredom? FFS

Ha. I'm self-righteous because I view marriage as being a commitment that shouldn't be broken over something that can generally be fixed? Ok then. I'm good with that.

My mom has been divorced 3 times. There's some history there. I'm proud of my convictions and staying married, barring some grievous fault like cheating, is one of them.

(OP, none of this has to do with you. I do really hope that you'll try counseling and discuss the military thing further.)

[Deleted]

Oct 18, 2013 11:57:00 GMT -5 eddy said:

I think your expectations of what marriage is really like are off base.

I mean I am surprised that what you posted is divorce worthy in your mind.

What you posted is called marriage. It ebbs it flows. You disconnect and reconnect. By all means get help. It will facilitate the reconnect.

Normal

Eddy said it best.

[shostakovich]

Oct 18, 2013 12:42:39 GMT -5 thatsnotmyname said:

Oct 18, 2013 12:28:37 GMT -5 shostakovich said:

Okay.  The bolded statements above, plus your earlier post that he threatened to call your wedding off because the two of you weren't having enough sex, AND his refusing to go to couples counseling, is making me wonder a little bit about your H.

Is he a "my way or the highway" type?  When you say that you express your love by keeping the house clean - is this an expectation of his that you will always keep the house clean, or is it more of a "I'm going to clean the house up to surprise H and make his day" type thing?

I know that when he comes home and there are dishes in the sink, it upsets him. I do keep the house clean because I know it makes him happy. I'll go "above and beyond" normal every day house cleaning to do some sort of extra task around the house to make him extra happy. 

I should add that I work from home 4 days a week, but I do work 8 or 9 hours every day. I'm saving time on a commute, and I think he expects me to have the house clean and groceries bought, etc. because of that. 

I think you guys are seriously misaligned when it comes to expectations in the relationship.  He expects a clean house, despite the fact that you are also working during the day (albeit from home).  You expect physical affection and a compliment every now and again, and he is not giving these things to you. 

Step one:  Sit down and talk to the dude, and also give HIM time to talk, about this gap in communication you are experiencing.  Re-express your desire for counseling for the both of you.  If he says no, ask him to explain why.  Then go to therapy for yourself either way.

And for the record, I'm still on the fence about your H.  He sounds a bit selfish and aloof, honestly.

[obladi]

The more you follow up on this the bigger the problem seems to be. I would have a big problem with his threatening not to marry you before the wedding because of the sex initiation issue.

[flex]

It wounds like you have a matured marriage. It's not going to be all sweetie sweetie for the rest of your lives. And people DO change--it's a natural part of life. The hopes and dreams you have at 21 are not going to be the same at 30, 40, 50, etc.

However, clearly you are troubled right now and good communication is very important in a long-term relationship. If he doesn't want to go to counseling (which is what A LOT of men want to avoid), then go to counseling by yourself and see if a counselor can help you with your issues.

[krystee]

I am going through a patch in my own life where marriage feels kind of boring. But we are in major fix-that mode. We are taking turns planning a fun date each weekend. At least two weeknights, we're trying to do things other than watch TV (playing Wii, taking our dogs for a long walk, seeing a movie, etc.), and we're trying to spice things up as well. What if you go on a date to Lovers Lane or whatever "toy" store is near you and pick out something fun? Or be in bed waiting for him when he gets home from work one day? Leave little notes in his car or on his laptop. Give him a big kiss when he leaves. Send dirty texts or sweet texts, complimenting him. Basically, fake it til you make it. Once you start doing those things, you'll probably see that he starts doing some of them too.

Now if he is refusing to do anything whatsoever to address problems and is planning to enlist in the military despite your reservations, those are separate issues that could be divorce-worthy.

[flex]

So how are you doing with your depression that you talked about December 2012??

pandce.proboards.com/thread/103522/help-putting-action-ways-improve

[happyholiday]

Oct 18, 2013 13:11:23 GMT -5 frkls said:

the "i think he's going to enlist whether i want him to or not" thing sucks. that's a really hard lifestyle to get dragged into against your will. the lack of romancey stuff can be worked out, but the military thing is kind of stuck in my craw.

Yes.  As a military wife, I can tell you it's no joke.  His job will always come first.  And a 30 yr old on a private's salary?!  

[thatsnotmyname]

We are misaligned in our expectations, yes. I am feeling a little defensive (and am trying to rein that in), but I understand where many of you are coming from. I appreciate the input and the conversation. I don't think I had unrealistic expectations about marriage. I expected that we would just continue our relationship as it was (with its ups and downs, but we'd still be together, living our lives). I don't expect a fairy tale.

I will sit down and talk to the dude, as was suggested. We've had this type discussion many times. It is somewhat difficult having this discussion because he is fairly defensive and is a great arguer (i.e. my opinions and feelings will often feel trivial even to me at the end of a conversation).

I am currently looking up counselors with whom I can make an appointment in the next couple of weeks.

I need to step away from this post for a while. Thank you for all the advice and opinions.