Anyone want to discuss this? (sad story - brain dead teen)

[jaylea]

Also, I read that the Coroner's office has stated that the chances of recovering evidence of malpractice (if there was any) is being diminished by the fact that her body is being kept alive - it will heal and cover up any evidence.

[Alyssa]

This story is in my local news and I can tell you, the hospital has been acting shady from the start.  They haven't been compassionate towards their family at all.  I don't get the hospital's strong need to flip the switch on this child when her family is begging for more time with her. 

The family wants to put her in another facility to care for her but need a surgery done to allow a feeding tube to be inserted, the hospital is denying that request.  Just do it already and get them out of your hair you POS hospital!  I would never bring my child there.

[tisevee]

Dec 27, 2013 16:07:43 GMT -5 kme said:

Dec 27, 2013 15:59:19 GMT -5 tisevee said:

Well fuck me. I was just talking to BF about how I want to have my tonsils taken out next month. I'm getting frequent strep throat. I've had it 5 times this year already. This is scary!

The older you are the more complex the case is. We often watch young adults in our ICU overnight with an emergent equipment to insert a trach at bedside in case the airway starts to close. Not to freak you out at all though.

You've got to be kidding me! This freaks me out very much.

[alzi]

Dec 27, 2013 16:10:18 GMT -5 Alyssa said:

This story is in my local news and I can tell you, the hospital has been acting shady from the start.  They haven't been compassionate towards their family at all.  I don't get the hospital's strong need to flip the switch on this child when her family is begging for more time with her. 

The family wants to put her in another facility to care for her but need a surgery done to allow a feeding tube to be inserted, the hospital is denying that request.  Just do it already and get them out of your hair you POS hospital!  I would never bring my child there.

I don't understand why they would put a feeding tube into a person that will never wake up.

[NewOrleans]

Dec 27, 2013 16:04:00 GMT -5 kme said:

Dec 27, 2013 15:40:14 GMT -5 @otterama said:

I really hurt for the family, but at the same time the girl is brain dead. You can't come back from that, right?

No you cannot come back from that.

Someone else mentioned the Terri Schiavo case. She had damage to her brain leading her to be comatose but was not brain dead.

In my experience, people who are brain dead their body only lasts for a few weeks.

Terri Schiavo was not in a coma.  She was in a PVS.  And her brain had deteriorated by half. 

[MWOS]

Dec 27, 2013 16:10:18 GMT -5 Alyssa said:

This story is in my local news and I can tell you, the hospital has been acting shady from the start.  They haven't been compassionate towards their family at all.  I don't get the hospital's strong need to flip the switch on this child when her family is begging for more time with her. 

The family wants to put her in another facility to care for her but need a surgery done to allow a feeding tube to be inserted, the hospital is denying that request.  Just do it already and get them out of your hair you POS hospital!  I would never bring my child there.

I wonder about you sometimes. All the times.

[xokell2]

Dec 27, 2013 15:28:16 GMT -5 litebright said:

And there's a practical part of me that wonders about the cost of that, and how far a family's grief-influenced decision should get to go before an institution steps in and says "this is not an appropriate standard of care, you need to let her go."

Emotions play into costly hospital care on a daily basis and it's so sad.

The list of accommodations for the family seem above and beyond.

[starlily]

Dec 27, 2013 15:59:19 GMT -5 tisevee said:

Dec 27, 2013 15:08:23 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

Holy shit, this was the result of a tonsillectomy???!

Well fuck me. I was just talking to BF about how I want to have my tonsils taken out next month. I'm getting frequent strep throat. I've had it 5 times this year already. This is scary!

Tonsillectomy is much more difficult to recover from as an adult compared to a child - 6 weeks v. a few days. I learned this earlier this year when I had an abscess on my tonsils and an emergency tonsillectomy was a possibility. My ENT said that because it's so difficult, the current standard to recommend an adult tonsillectomy is at least 7 serious infections in a year.

[pamela]

The hospital may have been negligent post surgery, but the family is ruining their chance to prove it by artificially prolonging "life" and not allowing the autopsy.

I'm only slightly mocking their religions here, but there is no biblical evidence for God raising someone from the dead after longer than 4 days as I recall. And she's better off in heaven anyway, right?

[berbles]

This is a local story for me, and from what I've seen on the news, her family really doesn't believe she won't wake up. The whole thing is so so tragic.

And yes, they are pissed that the hospital won't insert a feeding tube. Sorry, I'm on the hospital's side on this one. Why would you perform a procedure like that on someone who really REALLY isn't going to wake up? It sounds callous, but like PPs have said, it's not the hospital's job anymore to soften this blow. It's time for the family to move on.

[speckledfrog]

Dec 27, 2013 16:10:18 GMT -5 Alyssa said:

This story is in my local news and I can tell you, the hospital has been acting shady from the start.  They haven't been compassionate towards their family at all.  I don't get the hospital's strong need to flip the switch on this child when her family is begging for more time with her. 

The family wants to put her in another facility to care for her but need a surgery done to allow a feeding tube to be inserted, the hospital is denying that request.  Just do it already and get them out of your hair you POS hospital!  I would never bring my child there.

A feeding tube will not help her.  There is no amount of anything that will help her.

Did you read the link Lucy posted?  I would not call that not being compassionate.  It seems to me that they have been reasonably accommodating.  It is no longer reasonable. 

[NewOrleans]

Meanwhile in TX, a woman is not allowed to die because she is pregnant. In fact, in at least 11 states, pregnancy automatically legally invalidates a woman's will.

www.cnn.com/2013/12/23/health/pregnant-life-support-texas/

[joenali]

Why would you want to keep your child in this state for a prolonged amount of time?

[iamali]

Dec 27, 2013 16:21:01 GMT -5 pamela said:

The hospital may have been negligent post surgery, but the family is ruining their chance to prove it by artificially prolonging "life" and not allowing the autopsy.

I'm only slightly mocking their religions here, but there is no biblical evidence for God raising someone from the dead after longer than 4 days as I recall. And she's better off in heaven anyway, right?

They (at least her mother) doesn't think she's dead though, because she is still warm to the touch, etc. Her open letter said something about god giving her the spark to propel her into conciousness again or something (I'm paraphrasing).

[rugbywife]

I think clearly there either a genuine lack of understanding of what it means to be brain dead (on the part of the family) and/or a lack of ability to comprehend what it means to be brain dead due to either religious belief and/or grief/shock. Doctors are able to separate themselves from the person and look at the 'case' (at a great emotional toll over time) and just look at the facts. Not all parents/families can do that. I don't think the hospital's comment about not performing surgeries on people who are 'dead' is in their best interest, since really, the body isn't dead, the brain is. They can keep that body alive (for however long) so technically they CAN do the surgery. They just don't think it will make any difference. (edit: or rather, they KNOW it won't make any difference).

[iamali]

Dec 27, 2013 16:43:09 GMT -5 gravytrain225 said:

Thank God the hospital can make this decision for them. I will never understand what these parents can possibly be thinking.

They're thinking that they'll have some chance to get their daughter back.  I hope none of us will ever have to try to understand it, but I can be even a little bit compassioniate to those who are going through it.

[NewOrleans]

Dec 27, 2013 16:43:09 GMT -5 gravytrain225 said:

Thank God the hospital can make this decision for them. I will never understand what these parents can possibly be thinking.

aw, I can't find it in me to judge them or think poorly of them.  

[speckledfrog]

Dec 27, 2013 16:47:18 GMT -5 iamali said:

Dec 27, 2013 16:43:09 GMT -5 gravytrain225 said:

Thank God the hospital can make this decision for them. I will never understand what these parents can possibly be thinking.

They're thinking that they'll have some chance to get their daughter back.  I hope none of us will ever have to try to understand it, but I can be even a little bit compassioniate to those who are going through it.

Gravy has experience with losing a child and had to make some difficult and heartbreaking decisions in the process.


ETA:  I was posting at the same time as gravy.

[iamali]

Dec 27, 2013 16:49:20 GMT -5 gravytrain225 said:

Dec 27, 2013 16:47:18 GMT -5 iamali said:

They're thinking that they'll have some chance to get their daughter back.  I hope none of us will ever have to try to understand it, but I can be even a little bit compassioniate to those who are going through it.

I have sort of been there myself.  I had a baby who was born with total brain damage and had zero normal brain activity.  Keeping him alive was nothing that we ever considered, we wanted what was best for him.

I'm terribly sorry that you had to go through that. If it's not too personal - did religion have any impact on your decision?

[melindafelinda]

Dec 27, 2013 15:08:23 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

Holy shit, this was the result of a tonsillectomy???!

I almost died from mine.  They couldn't stop the bleeding. I was in the hospital for a week.  The ironic (not used correctly) part is that the only reason I was having my tonsils out was that I faked a sore throat to stay out of school.  MY THROAT DIDN'T EVEN HURT.

[pugz]

while I feel sad for the family I simply cannot comprehend where their thought process is in this. Clearly they are denying science/medicine/logic at this point. Even with second opinions brought in they aren't understanding the reality that the ONLY reason she is alive is because the machines are keeping her alive.

ethically the hospital is in such a tough position, they need to respect the religious beliefs of the family while also doing what is best for the patient, which I firmly believe is to let her pass.

I don't really understand why people see the hospital as the villain in this case, but I haven't read details of the case to know what the accusations are.

[Deleted]

Putting aside the total sadness of this entire situation, Who is paying for all of this? I imagine insurance isn't?

[iamali]

Dec 27, 2013 16:53:32 GMT -5 @heyitsme said:

Putting aside the total sadness of this entire situation, Who is paying for all of this? I imagine insurance isn't?

I've been wondering this as well.

[orangeblossom]

Yes, in theory, no parent wants to see their child suffer, but they truly believe she may wake up; wrong though that may be. As I said in a pp, it is hard to let go of a parent or another adult loved one, but letting go of a child is a whole different story

It's easy to say what one would do in a situation until faced with it. I know there are some in this post who've had to make that decision to withdraw life support to their child, and while hard, it was their decision to make, just as it's this family's decision to make.

Grief makes you do strange things. I don't agree with keeping her on life support, but I can certainly understand the desire to.

[kme]

Dec 27, 2013 16:40:59 GMT -5 rugbywife said:

I think clearly there either a genuine lack of understanding of what it means to be brain dead (on the part of the family) and/or a lack of ability to comprehend what it means to be brain dead due to either religious belief and/or grief/shock. Doctors are able to separate themselves from the person and look at the 'case' (at a great emotional toll over time) and just look at the facts. Not all parents/families can do that. I don't think the hospital's comment about not performing surgeries on people who are 'dead' is in their best interest, since really, the body isn't dead, the brain is. They can keep that body alive (for however long) so technically they CAN do the surgery. They just don't think it will make any difference. (edit: or rather, they KNOW it won't make any difference).

No they cannot do surgery. There is no difference medically or legally between being brain or "body" dead. Dead is dead. Believing they are different is the issue at hand. So you can understand differently, it would mean the same thing as taking a body out of the morgue and completely a procedure. When you are brain dead and then your body dies, your death certificate is dated and timed from when you are declared- not from when you are off support or your heart stops which can be days after the fact.

[sabelis]

This would be heartbreaking to go through. It was just supposed to be a simple surgery to help the child from getting sick and ended up being the end of their life.

[ledareansley]

Dec 27, 2013 15:59:19 GMT -5 tisevee said:

Dec 27, 2013 15:08:23 GMT -5 Lucy Honeychurch said:

Holy shit, this was the result of a tonsillectomy???!

Well fuck me. I was just talking to BF about how I want to have my tonsils taken out next month. I'm getting frequent strep throat. I've had it 5 times this year already. This is scary!

I had mine out at 27 (I'm 33 now) and got a terrible infection on my tongue (when your own mother dry heaves looking at it, you know shit has gotten real) and allergic reaction to the antibiotics.  I'm allergic to penicillin but whatever they gave me made me throw up for days.  I had to go back in the hospital for IV fluids because I couldn't keep water down.  It was a real pain in my ass.  I lost 14 pounds, but found them all like the champion I am.  I do have to say, it's the best thing I ever did.  Once they gave me fluids and that miracle drug Zofran, I was like a new woman and now I never get sick. 

I feel so bad for this little girl.  I hope they let her go soon.

[sweetpea27]

Dec 27, 2013 17:25:09 GMT -5 ledareansley said:

Dec 27, 2013 15:59:19 GMT -5 tisevee said:

Well fuck me. I was just talking to BF about how I want to have my tonsils taken out next month. I'm getting frequent strep throat. I've had it 5 times this year already. This is scary!

I had mine out at 27 (I'm 33 now) and got a terrible infection on my tongue (when your own mother dry heaves looking at it, you know shit has gotten real) and allergic reaction to the antibiotics.  I'm allergic to penicillin but whatever they gave me made me throw up for days.  I had to go back in the hospital for IV fluids because I couldn't keep water down.  It was a real pain in my ass.  I lost 14 pounds, but found them all like the champion I am.  I do have to say, it's the best thing I ever did.  Once they gave me fluids and that miracle drug Zofran, I was like a new woman and now I never get sick. 

I feel so bad for this little girl.  I hope they let her go soon.

I'm glad it had been worth it. I just told DH that I am so ready to better. I also have lost weight. It's awful, but if it fixes all of my problems like it should it will be worth it.

[mcsangel2]

Dec 27, 2013 16:04:00 GMT -5 kme said:

Dec 27, 2013 15:40:14 GMT -5 @otterama said:

I really hurt for the family, but at the same time the girl is brain dead. You can't come back from that, right?

No you cannot come back from that.

Someone else mentioned the Terri Schiavo case. She had damage to her brain leading her to be comatose but was not brain dead.

In my experience, people who are brain dead their body only lasts for a few weeks.

I reread the article that's up on CNN.com earlier this morning, and read all the comments, many of which were by medical professionals. There's a debate that the girl's brain stem may still be functioning, even though the rest of the brain isn't. Regardless, (according to what I read), her organs will start shutting down soon.

[iamali]

mcsangel2 will her organs start shutting down even if she's on life support?