Asking wwyd is probably pointless because I doubt any of us would have an easy decision in this situation.
I think letting go of your child would be so hard, but I also have a strong belief in science and if she's brain dead, she's not coming back.
Something similar happened after my brother died (he was 16). My parents made the decision to pull the plug because doing so allowed his organs transplanted.
Post by gretchenindisguise on Dec 27, 2013 15:11:29 GMT -5
I've been following the story, it's so so sad. I feel so terrible for that family that their girl has passed away. I think it's the suddenness after the seemingly routine surgery that has them in such strong denial. I just simply cannot imagine.
Holy shit, this was the result of a tonsillectomy???!
Yes, but from what I read it may have been more involved/in-depth than a traditional tonsillectomy since she was in the hospital 3 days post surgery and so often kids go home same day.
I've been following the story, it's so so sad. I feel so terrible for that family that their girl has passed away. I think it's the suddenness after the seemingly routine surgery that has them in such strong denial. I just simply cannot imagine.
Oh totally. I remember being scared when DS1 had his tonsils removed but being assured by the doctors it was such an easy surgery.
"I'm her mother. I'm going to support her. It's my job to do it. Any mother would do it," Winkfield said in an exclusive interview with CNN's The Lead on Monday. "I just want her to have more time. There are so many stories of people waking up in her situation."
it seems like she is confusing brain death with coma. There are no stories of waking up from brain death.
"I'm her mother. I'm going to support her. It's my job to do it. Any mother would do it," Winkfield said in an exclusive interview with CNN's The Lead on Monday. "I just want her to have more time. There are so many stories of people waking up in her situation."
it seems like she is confusing brain death with coma. There are no stories of waking up from brain death.
Yes. It seems the whole family is, there are similar quotes from an uncle.
Post by sweetpea27 on Dec 27, 2013 15:25:31 GMT -5
This is so scary. I had my tonsils out on Dec. 17th. I also had a bleed that but me in the ER. I had to be rushed into surgery again since the bleed was an artery and they won't close on their own. The dr told my family that a bleed like this is no joke and you can die from it.
That said, They asked about that girl and she said that in the medical community they are saying she had more going on that is not be released yet. She speculates that the girl had a bleeding disorder that they didn't know about. She he also said that it was a more complex surgery then a normal tonsillectomy.
Edit- please excuse the mistakes. I'm still on heavy pain killers.
I read that the girl's surgery was very complex, not a normal tonsillectomy. That said, this is nothing but tragic all around. I feel so bad for her mother and father.
When ds2 was so ill last year, we discussed transplant opportunities with the ICU team. My nephew died at age 17 waiting for a heart; I would do anything to save a family from that grief. It was, strangely enough, not a hard conversation to have.
Thus far everything that I've read says it was a "routine" tonsillectomy".
It's super sad. I wonder what type of complications occurred to produce that outcome.
The family do misunderstand the difference between brain dead and being in a coma and I don't blame the hospital for not placing a trach/peg. Some states do allow removal of life support under physicians orders once brain death is determined but it's not commonly done.
Post by litebright on Dec 27, 2013 15:28:16 GMT -5
I feel so horrible for her family.
Man, this is a really hard one. They were allowed to get a second opinion from an independent doctor at Stanford Children's that yes, she is brain-dead. On one hand, I feel like it should be their decision as to whether she gets to be moved to another facility that might "treat" her -- I can't imagine what they were told would be "treatment" at this point, though. And I think that between the suddenness and not understanding what her condition truly is (coma va. brain death like pp mentioned), there's a lot of denial going on right now.
On the other hand, her body could live for years, decades even, on life support.* And there's a practical part of me that wonders about the cost of that, and how far a family's grief-influenced decision should get to go before an institution steps in and says "this is not an appropriate standard of care, you need to let her go."
But man, it's been less than three weeks since they sent a (presumably) healthy kid off to get her tonsils out, and three days later she's declared brain-dead. I feel like I'd have a hard time accepting that, too, and that I would sure as hell be raging that the institution responsible for her condition was preventing me from getting her the hell out of there before I made a final decision.
*Edit: Actually, I'm not sure about this, how long a child might be able to live on life support. I think Terri Schaivo was on life support for 15 years, I don't know what factors might be in play with a child.
It's super sad. I wonder what type of complications occurred to produce that outcome.
The family do misunderstand the difference between brain dead and being in a coma and I don't blame the hospital for not placing a trach/peg. Some states do allow removal of life support under physicians orders once brain death is determined but it's not commonly done.
I just read that she bled too much after the surgery and the lack of oxygen caused her to have a heart attack.
I live in the same state as they do and it's a pretty big story here. The mother had mentioned that her daughter felt like something was going to go wrong with the surgery.
Heartbreaking. I think its easy to say what we would do when we are in a hypothetical situation. Unfortunately, when this type of tragedy occurs, it is very easy to get caught up in grief & the 'what ifs'.
I'd be fucking livid at the hospital, that's for damn sure; their comments regarding this case have been unfathomably callous.
"Ms. McMath is dead and cannot be brought back to life," the hospital said in the memo, adding: "Children's is under no legal obligation to provide medical or other intervention for a deceased person."
The hospital's legal argument says it was a complex surgery. The memo in opposition to the TRO is actually fairly enlightening; while the hospital's position seems callous, honestly, it does look like they went to extraordinary measures to accommodate the family.
It really does. I understand the family's heartbreak and refusal to accept the circumstances but it does seem like it is time for the hospital to stop support.
The family says it was a routine tonsillectomy; the hospital says in its legal filings that it was a complicated procedure, not a routine one. This was one of several articles I have seen that have made this point. If I can track down the hospital filing, I will post it.
So I googled all three of the procedures listed in that document and they are all very common. I'm not getting into the "complex" part, because I'm not a doctor I have no idea what they consider complex or not.
We were warned of potentially fatal bleeds post op before Mason's surgery. It's the main reason we did a tonsilotomy (where they shave tonsils vs remove) rather than a tonsillectomy - much lower risk of bleeding.
This case is so sad. At some point the family is going I have to let go. You'd hope some family member or clergy member would be able to get through to them - because it sounds like they have already decided the hospital is the enemy (and I'm not blaming them - they've gone through a lot).
We were warned of potentially fatal bleeds post op before Mason's surgery. It's the main reason we did a tonsilotomy (where they shave tonsils vs remove) rather than a tonsillectomy - much lower risk of bleeding.
This case is so sad. At some point the family is going I have to let go. You'd hope some family member or clergy member would be able to get through to them - because it sounds like they have already decided the hospital is the enemy (and I'm not blaming them - they've gone through a lot).
I read an "open letter" that her mother wrote, it sounds like the family is deeply religious and expects a miracle to occur.
Based on what others have posted, I don't see how the hospital could have done any more for the child and her family.
I assume the hospital staff are trying to be blunt in the hope of getting the message through to the family. I just worry about the facility they hope to transfer her to--won't that be incredibly expensive or are they planning to file some sort of suit against the hospital?
Holy shit, this was the result of a tonsillectomy???!
Well fuck me. I was just talking to BF about how I want to have my tonsils taken out next month. I'm getting frequent strep throat. I've had it 5 times this year already. This is scary!
We were warned of potentially fatal bleeds post op before Mason's surgery. It's the main reason we did a tonsilotomy (where they shave tonsils vs remove) rather than a tonsillectomy - much lower risk of bleeding.
This case is so sad. At some point the family is going I have to let go. You'd hope some family member or clergy member would be able to get through to them - because it sounds like they have already decided the hospital is the enemy (and I'm not blaming them - they've gone through a lot).
I read an "open letter" that her mother wrote, it sounds like the family is deeply religious and expects a miracle to occur.
I suspected as much. I'd also imagine there's a healthy distrust of the medical community certainly now, but prior to surgery even happening.
At some point, I hope they will be able to come to grips with the fact that she is brain dead, but right now they just are not in that place. It's one thing to remove an elderly parent from life support, by quite another to unexpectedly have to remove your 13yo child, add religion to that and you're going to resist that.
If there was negligence involved, I hope that comes to light and is dealt with.
This whole story makes me sad, but hearing that she said she was scared of the surgery and didn't think she'd wake up from it is heartbreaking.
Holy shit, this was the result of a tonsillectomy???!
Well fuck me. I was just talking to BF about how I want to have my tonsils taken out next month. I'm getting frequent strep throat. I've had it 5 times this year already. This is scary!
The older you are the more complex the case is. We often watch young adults in our ICU overnight with an emergent equipment to insert a trach at bedside in case the airway starts to close. Not to freak you out at all though.